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Steven Wright Suspended 80 Games for PEDs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Mar 7, 2019 17:48:21 GMT -5
Mods, feel free to move my last post or two as we're getting away from the subject at hand - Stephen Wright and the impact of his loss on a debatably thin bullpen.
And speaking of mods, let them decide when something is "too incessant". That's part of what they're here to do anyways.
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Post by elbochie on Mar 7, 2019 19:05:48 GMT -5
The Dodgers are looking to trade Josh Fields, maybe a way to move a catcher....although he is a flyball pitcher he had a good year in 18
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 8, 2019 13:25:13 GMT -5
I'm sorry but I have to say something. I don't care about 4 championships right now because they have nothing to do with this team. Heck we've had three different GMs. This isn't in Bill we trust and even then he's far from perfect. DD weak link over the years has been building bullpens, to fix that he anchored ours with an all-time great closer in Kimbrel. The results 3 division titles and a championship. Yet outside Kimbrel the whole bullpen was here for Dave. He only added Braiser. Now we have DD going back to his Detroit roots in building a bullpen. A team with no other weaknesses has this huge questionable bullpen. I was all for doing a bunch of different things, I'm just shocked he took by far the riskiest route available. In no way should we have been counting on Wright, yet he's was third in the bullpen for guys you could see being real good. You almost had to dream on right being Wakefield for this to make sense. I can live without a super bullpen, yet it seems crazy to be at the bottom in talent and spending on the bullpen among contenders.
There's certainly a chance everything works out, we have just enough talent for that to happen. Yet everything needs to go just right and in Baseball that hardly happens. Like I just have to know why given where this team is, why was this the approach? At the minimum we could sign a few more proven veteran arms on the cheap or trade for some better options? I'm not even talking about studs, just less risky players. If it works out I'll give DD all the credit, if it doesn't he'll get all the blame.
Do I think our owner is cheap? Not at all, but lets also not act like he's awesome at spending money either. He's on course to spend less than 50% of the projected revenue, he's spending a lot less of projected revenue than a team like the A's are spending. As revenue keeps going up he's trying to spend less. Just because so many top teams are being cheap doesn't make our owner great! That luxury tax was designed for all the top revenue teams to pay big taxes, not avoid the top level like the plague. The fact he's doing this now, when we maybe reset next year is mind boggling. He had a perfect chance to prove to the fans he's wiiling to spend big for Championships at a time no one else was spending. It's the perfect time to blow past the highest level and go for it. Yet Pedro nailed it, he always draws a line even after he likely made record profits last year and the team might lose a bunch of talent next year.
Case in point right now. Kimbrel taking a big one year deal seemed crazy a few months ago. Yet right now his agent overplayed the market and teams had so many options they moved on. Maybe I'm dead wrong and he gets some massive deal, yet if we aren't sitting their with a big one year deal we are being stupid. He's the one guy that can take a projected back of pack bullpen and bring it to middle of the pack. With a chance for more if he's great.
So yea acting like Steven Wright was going to be a big piece was stupid, yet that's where we are. He was a safer bet than our other options and that's why we're voicing our concerns. I've also become drunk on Championships over the last 20 years. 2003 UMass rioted over Grady Little leaving Pedro in and costing us a World Series. Now a days that doesn't happen. Yet I'm greedy, I want more Championships. This is the perfect time as so many owners only care about money to keep on winning them because they are being cheap. I will not apologize for being a greedy die hard Red Sox fan. I always want my teams to win no matter how many times we win. Life's short and I always want one more every year!😀🤔🤣
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 9, 2019 6:38:49 GMT -5
Do I think our owner is cheap? Not at all, but lets also not act like he's awesome at spending money either. He's on course to spend less than 50% of the projected revenue, he's spending a lot less of projected revenue than a team like the A's are spending. As revenue keeps going up he's trying to spend less. Just because so many top teams are being cheap doesn't make our owner great! That luxury tax was designed for all the top revenue teams to pay big taxes, not avoid the top level like the plague. The fact he's doing this now, when we maybe reset next year is mind boggling. He had a perfect chance to prove to the fans he's wiiling to spend big for Championships at a time no one else was spending. It's the perfect time to blow past the highest level and go for it. Yet Pedro nailed it, he always draws a line even after he likely made record profits last year and the team might lose a bunch of talent next year. I think the thing that's been overlooked time and time again is that the owners (for the most part) set the luxury tax limits, so expecting them to blow past it or act like it's trivial is unrealistic. They have an obvious, vested interest in convincing us all how important these limits are and how debilitating it is to surpass them. I would not expect them to go out their way to prove themselves wrong at their own expense of millions of dollars. I guess I'm less concerned about Wright and the bullpen in general. Other than Barnes, I don't trust any reliever to pitch well wire to wire, but there's enough live arms that I think they can manage. If not, there's always the trade deadline. Would love to see Kimbrel back on a short deal but, again, I don't think they'll break their own self-imposed rules. What do you consider a “live” arm and who has them? Not being snarky, really curious because “live arm” is one of those ambiguous terms.
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Post by soxjim on Mar 9, 2019 8:51:16 GMT -5
I'm sorry but I have to say something. I don't care about 4 championships right now b I'm just shocked he took by far the riskiest route available. In no way should we have been counting on Wright, yet he's was third in the bullpen for guys you could see being real good. We're on complete opposite ends of the spectrum on many issues. I care about the 4 championships. I look upon champions as different vs non-champions. And I realize as Theo once said - "don't try to build super teams." And just because DD isn’t BB doesn't mean I can’t trust him. He won a championship. Further to that point, last year he was being severely criticized for not going after more bullpen help. His way was shown to be correct. The others were wrong if you want to talk about giving up players vs standing pat. So yeah I trust him but I also realize you need certain luck to win. In 2004 we came back from 3-0. In 2007 down 3-1 and then JDDrew comes through. In 2013 could have gone down big vs Tigers but certain hubris from the Tigers Mgr. not using the lefty vs Papi was their ultimate demise. I think they've used this approach because of combination of money, concerns like Pedroia, maybe they believe they have future minor league help, and maybe they feel they can trade if need be such as a guy like Chavis whom some believe now he no longer has a home (because he’s blocked at 3rd, OF and DH, awkward at 1b and even more awkward at 2B. And as I've said before -- I can spend John Henry's money too. But it’s not my money. I do compare him to other owners and he is spending more. Would I love him to spend more? Sure. Why stop at $275M? Why not spend over $300m? Why should I care he spend $300m? But he is spending more than everyone else. I can't bury my head in the sand on this issue. No one else spends. So OFC I'm going to compare him vs other owners and right now he is spending more. And I don't want you to take this the wrong way. It's great that you are greedy if that is how you want to characterize yourself. I am more of a fan that has "expectations." My expectation is that the team won't go over the cap as is I don’t think any owner would in the current scenario. My expectation is that regardless if we get Kimbrel -- we're still going to need some luck if we were to win it all. My expectation is that for fans like yourself - you'll be content a few days after they win and then "the greedy fan that you are" (Which is not a bad thing!) will go about complaining how lucky they were if they didn’t follow your way of thinking -such as suppose one or two of the young minor league guys comes through? It will be said DD was lucky they came through yet we saw in 2013 Workman come through. Or if they trade Chavis or a combo of him and Swihart - it will be said that he was lucky he had those options which he no longer has now (next year). And even if DD wins two championships it will still be said that he isn't BB. It will be a vicious circle. I think we've been the most successful team in the past 15 years and life is good because we also are currently spending the most money. Some fans look at things half-empty in this case I'm half-full. I'm into ripping too. I was very vocal about John Farrell's poor managerial strategies. Grateful for the one title and he won more than that. So I can see frustration if there are certain points that bug a fan. Farrell's style bugged me- mostly his last year. This year the money and the bullpen may bug some fans - for me I want to see what happens early. Pedroia scares me to death - a lot. And because I think the owner has a cap (as any owner does) - I don't think he'll go over. Thus I'm okay to wait and see how season starts. Though I don’t believe for one second that if the bullpen was addressed and/or performed well and Sox end up losing while they got poor production from 2b that DD (and the owner) won't get heavily criticized for it at season’s end. That’s the nature of the beast- the vicious circle a GM gets in this line of work. If it’s not “Steven Wright and the bullpen” – we’ll find something else. Even when they win 108 games and go through playoffs without being extended to a final game there still was criticism. It will always be like that.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Mar 9, 2019 9:10:11 GMT -5
And as I've said before -- I can spend John Henry's money too. But it’s not my money. I do compare him to other owners and he is spending more. Would I love him to spend more? Sure. Why stop at $275M? Why not spend over $300m? Why should I care he spend $300m? But he is spending more than everyone else. I can't bury my head in the sand on this issue. No one else spends. So OFC I'm going to compare him vs other owners and right now he is spending more. Some of it is. Edit: I want to add to this because it's a more serious point than four words of snark expresses. John Henry's money does not fall out of the sky. Specifically to the Red Sox, he makes his money from us. Buying tickets, watching the broadcasts, Red Sox fans are the people who make this a profitable venture. Red Sox fans in turn are not motivated to buy tickets or watch broadcasts to see John Henry's smiling face. No one has a parade for his net worth going up another 3%. So yeah, regardless of the relatively high payroll, fans are absolutely right to be mad at that guy when he refuses to address serious needs (ie the bullpen) because he wants to increase profits some fractional amount. (Oh yeah, and the whole "well all the other big market teams act this way too" thing. Yeah, it's called f'ing collusion! That makes it so much worse. The Red Sox aren't just cheating their own fans, they're helping other teams do the same thing!)
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Post by dmaineah on Mar 9, 2019 9:16:03 GMT -5
How long does anyone think the Sox new about the suspension before it was announced? Can a player under suspension be traded? What would/could a Wright Swihart combo bring back?
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 9, 2019 10:42:24 GMT -5
I'm sorry but I have to say something. I don't care about 4 championships right now b I'm just shocked he took by far the riskiest route available. In no way should we have been counting on Wright, yet he's was third in the bullpen for guys you could see being real good. We're on complete opposite ends of the spectrum on many issues. I care about the 4 championships. I look upon champions as different vs non-champions. When he or someone says they don’t care about the Championships it doesn’t mean what you think it means. We all care about them and we all enjoy following the team, but we think it’s dumb to excuse one year because they won a championship in another year. Dombrowski won... great. He’s a quality GM, but he hasn’t earned unmitigated trust like Belichick has. Different sports so it’s hard to compare so I won’t go deep into it. This year isn’t about Dombrowski though. His hands were tied by a budget and unless someone has been saying they should not have player X and they should have used that money elsewhere then it’s not a criticism of him. The issue is Henry not going over the high level tax threshold when he has a great team that could be changing drastically over the next to years. Very few people would be complaining if they simply added one good pitcher on a reasonable contract... hello Ottavino. 3 years 27 is all it took... maybe you had to go 3/30... big deal.
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Post by jimed14 on Mar 9, 2019 11:39:24 GMT -5
So given that we all know what they have, are we going to accept it or just complain about it all season long? That's the issue I have. Why watch if you're going to be that miserable for the entire time? I never would watch anything that I complained about for 6 months.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Mar 9, 2019 11:56:27 GMT -5
So given that we all know what they have, are we going to accept it or just complain about it all season long? That's the issue I have. Why watch if you're going to be that miserable for the entire time? I never would watch anything that I complained about for 6 months. Why is it considered "complaining" if we are concerned with an area of the team or think things should be done differently? Why does that make any of us "miserable"? I can critique something and still enjoy the totality of something. Doubt I'm alone in that. I can't think of anybody here (other than Kungfuizzy who's long gone) who thinks the Red Sox suck, are stupid, and do everything wrong. I think we're intelligent enough here to realize that the team is not going to go 162-0. Don't think we need you to point that out for us. If areas of the team are seen as having to be upgraded, there's going to be conversation about it every day, particularly when they lose and if that area is obviously exposed. If not, why have a board to talk about it? Just create the pom-pom thread or whatever you want so it doesn't hurt your feelings. Do you think that Red Sox management doesn't have these kinds of conversations constantly? I mean there's a difference in a non-game thread between being concerned about a bullpen - particularly if they show a pattern of costing the team more games than it should or having a hissy fit because Chris Sale dared to have 1 bad outing or JD Martinez or Mookie Betts went 0-8 in two games.
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Post by soxjim on Mar 9, 2019 12:26:02 GMT -5
And as I've said before -- I can spend John Henry's money too. But it’s not my money. I do compare him to other owners and he is spending more. Would I love him to spend more? Sure. Why stop at $275M? Why not spend over $300m? Why should I care he spend $300m? But he is spending more than everyone else. I can't bury my head in the sand on this issue. No one else spends. So OFC I'm going to compare him vs other owners and right now he is spending more. Some of it is. Edit: I want to add to this because it's a more serious point than four words of snark expresses. John Henry's money does not fall out of the sky. Specifically to the Red Sox, he makes his money from us. Buying tickets, watching the broadcasts, Red Sox fans are the people who make this a profitable venture. Red Sox fans in turn are not motivated to buy tickets or watch broadcasts to see John Henry's smiling face. No one has a parade for his net worth going up another 3%. So yeah, regardless of the relatively high payroll, fans are absolutely right to be mad at that guy when he refuses to address serious needs (ie the bullpen) because he wants to increase profits some fractional amount. (Oh yeah, and the whole "well all the other big market teams act this way too" thing. Yeah, it's called f'ing collusion! That makes it so much worse. The Red Sox aren't just cheating their own fans, they're helping other teams do the same thing!) Okay some of it is. The small percent that is mine I get a vote -- and vote that he pays $300m for salaries. How far will my vote get me? If you want to get mad have at it. I am not. It's part your money too. I don't feel comfortable telling you how to spend your money. ANd if you feel its collusion if you are a lawyer or expert in this manner in some way and want to start a thread on this subject to then further go for it. I take what people say on these sites with a grain of salt when they speak things like collusion.
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Post by jimed14 on Mar 9, 2019 12:31:02 GMT -5
So given that we all know what they have, are we going to accept it or just complain about it all season long? That's the issue I have. Why watch if you're going to be that miserable for the entire time? I never would watch anything that I complained about for 6 months. Why is it considered "complaining" if we are concerned with an area of the team or think things should be done differently? Why does that make any of us "miserable"? I can critique something and still enjoy the totality of something. Doubt I'm alone in that. I can't think of anybody here (other than Kungfuizzy who's long gone) who thinks the Red Sox suck, are stupid, and do everything wrong. I think we're intelligent enough here to realize that the team is not going to go 162-0. Don't think we need you to point that out for us. If areas of the team are seen as having to be upgraded, there's going to be conversation about it every day, particularly when they lose and if that area is obviously exposed. If not, why have a board to talk about it? Just create the pom-pom thread or whatever you want so it doesn't hurt your feelings. Do you think that Red Sox management doesn't have these kinds of conversations constantly? I mean there's a difference in a non-game thread between being concerned about a bullpen - particularly if they show a pattern of costing the team more games than it should or having a hissy fit because Chris Sale dared to have 1 bad outing or JD Martinez or Mookie Betts went 0-8 in two games. I'm sure that Red Sox management doesn't have the exact same conversation 1000 times. They either address an issue or don't think it is one. The other thing is that fans fill in the blanks for everything they don't know about and just assume it's correct which is silly. There are undoubtedly reasons why they have (not) done what fans want them to do and they don't understand why which leads to guessing and then complaining about that guess without even knowing if it's true or not. Saying that we should sign Kimbrel or should go back in time and sign Ottavino or anyone else over and over and over again isn't having a conversation. It's just toxic after awhile. Your concern is noted. I'll reply to your posts with that same sentence every time you say the same thing just so you can realize how repetitive it is. There's not much difference between incessant complaining and incessant concern, especially when all the concern is based on expecting negative outcomes.
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Post by soxjim on Mar 9, 2019 12:48:45 GMT -5
We're on complete opposite ends of the spectrum on many issues. I care about the 4 championships. I look upon champions as different vs non-champions. When he or someone says they don’t care about the Championships it doesn’t mean what you think it means. We all care about them and we all enjoy following the team, but we think it’s dumb to excuse one year because they won a championship in another year. Dombrowski won... great. He’s a quality GM, but he hasn’t earned unmitigated trust like Belichick has. Different sports so it’s hard to compare so I won’t go deep into it. This year isn’t about Dombrowski though. His hands were tied by a budget and unless someone has been saying they should not have player X and they should have used that money elsewhere then it’s not a criticism of him. The issue is Henry not going over the high level tax threshold when he has a great team that could be changing drastically over the next to years. Very few people would be complaining if they simply added one good pitcher on a reasonable contract... hello Ottavino. 3 years 27 is all it took... maybe you had to go 3/30... big deal. You're right I don;t understand. I still don't understand when one says they don;t care about last year -- I do. I look upon team/players.owners differently. Heck I think most do. Look at how last year on this site and I'm sure others there was talk of putting Price in the bullpen. And the media talk of how he was ineffective in postseason and there was added pressure on him. One year -- and winning a title has changed all that. So I still don;t understand - "what's the dumb excuse?" We are still a top projected team this year, aren't we? And last year was a success. Teams follow formulas that work. For me I've always been a pro-opponent of putting starters in the bullpen in the playoffs. And as far as DD vs BB. I don't see what I said was wrong. Not saying you said I was. But I think you are confirming it? Even if DD wins this year he still wont be BB. So only BB is trustworthy? BB is arguably the greatest coach ever so every other coach in the history of sports you can hold against them because they aren't BB? Thus imo "DD is trustworthy enough even if he isn't BB." As far as complaining -- I'm fine with it. During the season it gets hard when the Sox are being super-successful but I'm fine with your complaints or any one else's to start the year. But as I said -- this is the nature of the beast. Not everyone is going to agree. Not everyone is going to be happy. Just because there are those that are unhappy doesn't mean they are right or that later on the issue can't be resolved to make them happy. A lot of people were unhappy we traded so much for Kimbrel (ie added the starter). Other people weren't happy with all we gave up for Sale or how much we paid for Price. Not saying anyone was wrong. Just saying it's not a big deal that some are unhappy.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Mar 9, 2019 13:44:57 GMT -5
Some of it is. Edit: I want to add to this because it's a more serious point than four words of snark expresses. John Henry's money does not fall out of the sky. Specifically to the Red Sox, he makes his money from us. Buying tickets, watching the broadcasts, Red Sox fans are the people who make this a profitable venture. Red Sox fans in turn are not motivated to buy tickets or watch broadcasts to see John Henry's smiling face. No one has a parade for his net worth going up another 3%. So yeah, regardless of the relatively high payroll, fans are absolutely right to be mad at that guy when he refuses to address serious needs (ie the bullpen) because he wants to increase profits some fractional amount. (Oh yeah, and the whole "well all the other big market teams act this way too" thing. Yeah, it's called f'ing collusion! That makes it so much worse. The Red Sox aren't just cheating their own fans, they're helping other teams do the same thing!) Okay some of it is. The small percent that is mine I get a vote -- and vote that he pays $300m for salaries. How far will my vote get me? If you want to get mad have at it. I am not. It's part your money too. I don't feel comfortable telling you how to spend your money. ANd if you feel its collusion if you are a lawyer or expert in this manner in some way and want to start a thread on this subject to then further go for it. I take what people say on these sites with a grain of salt when they speak things like collusion. Yeah but collectively we fund the whole damn thing. There's not a dollar to be made owning the Boston Red Sox without fans buying tickets and watching games. My only real point with this is that there's absolutely nothing unreasonable about complaining about the Red Sox payroll, even as it's the highest in baseball. As far as "collusion", I doubt there is in a legal sense. But they all know what they're doing.
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Post by soxjim on Mar 9, 2019 13:59:32 GMT -5
Okay some of it is. The small percent that is mine I get a vote -- and vote that he pays $300m for salaries. How far will my vote get me? If you want to get mad have at it. I am not. It's part your money too. I don't feel comfortable telling you how to spend your money. ANd if you feel its collusion if you are a lawyer or expert in this manner in some way and want to start a thread on this subject to then further go for it. I take what people say on these sites with a grain of salt when they speak things like collusion. Yeah but collectively we fund the whole damn thing. There's not a dollar to be made owning the Boston Red Sox without fans buying tickets and watching games. My only real point with this is that there's absolutely nothing unreasonable about complaining about the Red Sox payroll, even as it's the highest in baseball. As far as "collusion", I doubt there is in a legal sense. But they all know what they're doing. Gotcha. And I just want to add I don't mind complaining.
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 9, 2019 14:42:40 GMT -5
When he or someone says they don’t care about the Championships it doesn’t mean what you think it means. We all care about them and we all enjoy following the team, but we think it’s dumb to excuse one year because they won a championship in another year. Dombrowski won... great. He’s a quality GM, but he hasn’t earned unmitigated trust like Belichick has. Different sports so it’s hard to compare so I won’t go deep into it. This year isn’t about Dombrowski though. His hands were tied by a budget and unless someone has been saying they should not have player X and they should have used that money elsewhere then it’s not a criticism of him. The issue is Henry not going over the high level tax threshold when he has a great team that could be changing drastically over the next to years. Very few people would be complaining if they simply added one good pitcher on a reasonable contract... hello Ottavino. 3 years 27 is all it took... maybe you had to go 3/30... big deal. You're right I don;t understand. I still don't understand when one says they don;t care about last year -- I do. I look upon team/players.owners differently. Heck I think most do. Look at how last year on this site and I'm sure others there was talk of putting Price in the bullpen. And the media talk of how he was ineffective in postseason and there was added pressure on him. One year -- and winning a title has changed all that. So I still don;t understand - "what's the dumb excuse?" We are still a top projected team this year, aren't we? And last year was a success. Teams follow formulas that work. For me I've always been a pro-opponent of putting starters in the bullpen in the playoffs. And as far as DD vs BB. I don't see what I said was wrong. Not saying you said I was. But I think you are confirming it? Even if DD wins this year he still wont be BB. So only BB is trustworthy? BB is arguably the greatest coach ever so every other coach in the history of sports you can hold against them because they aren't BB? Thus imo "DD is trustworthy enough even if he isn't BB." As far as complaining -- I'm fine with it. During the season it gets hard when the Sox are being super-successful but I'm fine with your complaints or any one else's to start the year. But as I said -- this is the nature of the beast. Not everyone is going to agree. Not everyone is going to be happy. Just because there are those that are unhappy doesn't mean they are right or that later on the issue can't be resolved to make them happy. A lot of people were unhappy we traded so much for Kimbrel (ie added the starter). Other people weren't happy with all we gave up for Sale or how much we paid for Price. Not saying anyone was wrong. Just saying it's not a big deal that some are unhappy. My overall point was in my opinion the bullpen being light on talent isn’t a Dombrowski issue it’s a Henry one. Henry should have allowed him to spend more money. I care a lot about the Championships they bring me continuous joy. I just separate that out from looking at the next years team. It seems like you are willing to give the team a pass for not putting the team you’d prefer on the field because they won a title and I think Owners count on that. I and some others feel different. Now it’s maybe unfair for me to say that since this is a damn good team and we all see that - a few of us are just baffled at why they are stopping at the tax line with this particular team. Well maybe we aren’t baffled just disappointed that they are participating in the BS the rest of the owners are by using the tax line as an excuse not to spend that little extra that could really complete the team. The reason why someone like me, really wanted them to spend reasonably on the bullpen this offseason is to try and avoid trading anything from their thin system. I was very happy with all the trades they made (except the Pomeranz one) so I don’t mind trading prospects, but they have depleted their system and it’s time to build it back up.
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Post by James Dunne on Mar 9, 2019 14:58:55 GMT -5
Okay some of it is. The small percent that is mine I get a vote -- and vote that he pays $300m for salaries. How far will my vote get me? If you want to get mad have at it. I am not. It's part your money too. I don't feel comfortable telling you how to spend your money. ANd if you feel its collusion if you are a lawyer or expert in this manner in some way and want to start a thread on this subject to then further go for it. I take what people say on these sites with a grain of salt when they speak things like collusion. Yeah but collectively we fund the whole damn thing. There's not a dollar to be made owning the Boston Red Sox without fans buying tickets and watching games. My only real point with this is that there's absolutely nothing unreasonable about complaining about the Red Sox payroll, even as it's the highest in baseball. As far as "collusion", I doubt there is in a legal sense. But they all know what they're doing. I mean, this time Tom Grieve wasn't there to actually write it down, which would make proving it at least a little bit harder.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Mar 9, 2019 15:51:51 GMT -5
I mean, this time Tom Grieve wasn't there to actually write it down, which would make proving it at least a little bit harder. Never attribute to a conspiracy what can be explained by people independently acting in their own best interest. Anyway, not looking too good for 'ol Steven Wright (remember him?), but I guess if anyone is well positioned to come back from this it's a knuckleballer.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Mar 9, 2019 16:03:50 GMT -5
Why is it considered "complaining" if we are concerned with an area of the team or think things should be done differently? Why does that make any of us "miserable"? I can critique something and still enjoy the totality of something. Doubt I'm alone in that. I can't think of anybody here (other than Kungfuizzy who's long gone) who thinks the Red Sox suck, are stupid, and do everything wrong. I think we're intelligent enough here to realize that the team is not going to go 162-0. Don't think we need you to point that out for us. If areas of the team are seen as having to be upgraded, there's going to be conversation about it every day, particularly when they lose and if that area is obviously exposed. If not, why have a board to talk about it? Just create the pom-pom thread or whatever you want so it doesn't hurt your feelings. Do you think that Red Sox management doesn't have these kinds of conversations constantly? I mean there's a difference in a non-game thread between being concerned about a bullpen - particularly if they show a pattern of costing the team more games than it should or having a hissy fit because Chris Sale dared to have 1 bad outing or JD Martinez or Mookie Betts went 0-8 in two games. I'm sure that Red Sox management doesn't have the exact same conversation 1000 times. They either address an issue or don't think it is one. The other thing is that fans fill in the blanks for everything they don't know about and just assume it's correct which is silly. There are undoubtedly reasons why they have (not) done what fans want them to do and they don't understand why which leads to guessing and then complaining about that guess without even knowing if it's true or not. Saying that we should sign Kimbrel or should go back in time and sign Ottavino or anyone else over and over and over again isn't having a conversation. It's just toxic after awhile. Your concern is noted. I'll reply to your posts with that same sentence every time you say the same thing just so you can realize how repetitive it is. There's not much difference between incessant complaining and incessant concern, especially when all the concern is based on expecting negative outcomes. If you're so worried about "incessant" anything, why don't you let the moderators moderate then? That's what they're here for. If I, you, or somebody else is "incessant" about something, they'll say something. They're not shy.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Mar 9, 2019 16:08:36 GMT -5
Why is it considered "complaining" if we are concerned with an area of the team or think things should be done differently? Why does that make any of us "miserable"? I can critique something and still enjoy the totality of something. Doubt I'm alone in that. I can't think of anybody here (other than Kungfuizzy who's long gone) who thinks the Red Sox suck, are stupid, and do everything wrong. I think we're intelligent enough here to realize that the team is not going to go 162-0. Don't think we need you to point that out for us. If areas of the team are seen as having to be upgraded, there's going to be conversation about it every day, particularly when they lose and if that area is obviously exposed. If not, why have a board to talk about it? Just create the pom-pom thread or whatever you want so it doesn't hurt your feelings. Do you think that Red Sox management doesn't have these kinds of conversations constantly? I mean there's a difference in a non-game thread between being concerned about a bullpen - particularly if they show a pattern of costing the team more games than it should or having a hissy fit because Chris Sale dared to have 1 bad outing or JD Martinez or Mookie Betts went 0-8 in two games. I'm sure that Red Sox management doesn't have the exact same conversation 1000 times. They either address an issue or don't think it is one. The other thing is that fans fill in the blanks for everything they don't know about and just assume it's correct which is silly. There are undoubtedly reasons why they have (not) done what fans want them to do and they don't understand why which leads to guessing and then complaining about that guess without even knowing if it's true or not. Saying that we should sign Kimbrel or should go back in time and sign Ottavino or anyone else over and over and over again isn't having a conversation. It's just toxic after awhile. Your concern is noted. I'll reply to your posts with that same sentence every time you say the same thing just so you can realize how repetitive it is. There's not much difference between incessant complaining and incessant concern, especially when all the concern is based on expecting negative outcomes. As far as the bolded part, who knows? I'm sure they have their debates and disagreements about things. I remember reading that Larry Lucchino used to sing the old Simon and Garfunkel song, "Mrs. Robinson", but he'd sub one of the versus that goes, Where have you gone Joe Dimaggio, our nation turns its lonely eyes to you (or something like that) with Where have you gone Pedro Martinez, our nation turns its lonely eyes to you". Obviously he didn't agree with Theo letting Pedro walk. I'm sure there are still disagreements on what the right course of action is even among management types, although probably not as much as before given that Lucchino was as argumentative as they come.
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Post by soxjim on Mar 9, 2019 16:31:43 GMT -5
You're right I don;t understand. I My overall point was in my opinion the bullpen being light on talent isn’t a Dombrowski issue it’s a Henry one. Henry should have allowed him to spend more money. I care a lot about the Championships they bring me continuous joy. I just separate that out from looking at the next years team. It seems like you are willing to give the team a pass for not putting the team you’d prefer on the field because they won a title and I think Owners count on that. I and some others feel different. Now it’s maybe unfair for me to say that since this is a damn good team and we all see that - a few of us are just baffled at why they are stopping at the tax line with this particular team. Well maybe we aren’t baffled just disappointed that they are participating in the BS the rest of the owners are by using the tax line as an excuse not to spend that little extra that could really complete the team. The reason why someone like me, really wanted them to spend reasonably on the bullpen this offseason is to try and avoid trading anything from their thin system. I was very happy with all the trades they made (except the Pomeranz one) so I don’t mind trading prospects, but they have depleted their system and it’s time to build it back up. They are projected as one of the top 3 teams in baseball. Just like the start of last year. So I dont know if I'm giving them a pass. I just cant separate the team "I prefer" vs what IMO expect to be reality. I've always had an expectation that they would go under the cap just as every other team does. I can't be disppointed much if those are my expectations. And similar to you I don;t mind them trading in order to win in the past - but I don't mind them doing it now either. IMO it's okay to trade this year. Last year I was okay standing pat while others wanted bullpen help. SO I guess that would be a wash if we trade.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 10, 2019 16:04:59 GMT -5
Soxjim you can't literally cut my sentences in half and make it seem like I'm trying to say something I'm not. You know 100% reading what I said I care about Championships. I just don't think owners get a pass because of winning them like you do. The best runs in history would have never happened if teams acted that way. If it's your time go for it. This is a great team mostly in its prime, not an older lets try to maybe win one more type team.
I don't care what other owners do. The Dodgers and Yankees paid luxury taxes we've never come close too before. Now debt issues and wanting to sell have changed things. They are being cheap and one of the main reasons were headed for a strike. You need to judge your owners spending off percentage of revenue spent, that is common practice in all sports. That's what the player union cares about, not who spends the most. The fact is a lot of other teams spend a higher percentage of revenue than our owner. The A's blow us out of the water, they are spending over 60%, we are well below 50%. Given that our revenue should be about 600 million this year, yea we should be spending more. That doesn't even count the crazy revenue our owners make off of NESN either.
Another point you made about the luxury tax line, that is set by all teams. Mostly the lower revenue teams wanting to limit spending and get more revenue sharing. The top revenue teams have fought it for years, they are just out numbered. Go look at the numbers you have like the top 10 teams, then the other twenty teams. The majority of teams can't even afford to go over the first tax line, nevermind the next two lines. So we got this system, which the lower revenue teams thought would somewhat limit spending and have the top teams pay huge luxury tax bills, those increasing revenue sharing by a ton. Instead the top teams just stopped spending. It's literally a big f#ck you to the lower teams. Lowest luxury bills in decades. It's collusion among the top teams, so they can cry poor at the next CBA and get the rules changed. They have created power even though they ard out numbered because without them spending big, you can't reach the correct spending ratios overtime. The Yankees, Dodgers and Red Sox are on pace to spend over 300 million less than they should this year alone on payroll. Add that to the bottom 10 teams not spending anything and there is no competition for a lot of players. You have solid one and two war players taking minor league deals. We are literally watching millionaires play poker with a professional league right now and the end result will be the worst labor strike since the one that halfway killed Baseball. I applaud our owners for not completely buying in, but it sure does seem they have agreed to not blow past that top line. Not because they can't or shouldn't, but to make a point that the lower revenue teams have gone too far. They don't want to lose profits so other owners make more. It's the end of a two decade struggle over money. The perfect time for our owner to spend, yet two straight years of him trying to stay below that upper tax line. Even when it makes all the sense in the world to go slightly over. Don't even get me started if we plan on getting under the tax next year, its even crazier given their revenue. I expect teams to spend more as revenue increases. It happens in every other sport every single year. To accept anything less is crazy. That's like supporting the Warriors owner breaking up that team over luxury tax payments, even when he's still making a ton of money. It makes zero sense.
So yea last years team was a blast, most dominant team I've every seen. I want a crazy run, 3 Championships in 4 years or at minimum our owners giving us the chance to do just that. I only ask that they spend what they should and not decrease payroll as revenue skyrockets. That isn't crazy, that should be the norm. Seize the opportunities when you can, because it might be another hundred years before we see this again!
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Post by jimed14 on Mar 10, 2019 17:09:35 GMT -5
That's the perfect way to never be happy.
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Post by dcb26 on Mar 10, 2019 18:38:45 GMT -5
For how often the Pats get referenced here as an example of the *right* way to run a team, its interesting how many people are upset by the idea of building a team that's *only* good enough to be able to contend for the ALCS on a regular basis, and instead want the Red Sox to be a prohibitive preseason favorite in the World Series.
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Post by James Dunne on Aug 21, 2019 12:49:39 GMT -5
"At least two" is doing some lifting here, since Wright, Montas, and Beckham are the only three players I see as being suspended this year. And Beckham got nabbed for 1980's East German/WWF style Stanozolol.
Takes performance-enhancing drugs to that next level I suppose.
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