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Post by fenwaythehardway on Mar 29, 2019 8:04:06 GMT -5
Today they had a 2-0 lead but didn't really capitalize and then the roof caved in on Sale. I guess that's the other thing. He had no command. I don't care that he wasn't throwing 99 - kind of glad he wasn't, but I know one thing. He'll have a helluva time getting back to that 2.11 ERA he carried last year. I think that will be tough to match when you give up 7 runs in 3 innings. Don't know if he had an outing as bad last year. I expected some struggles without him using his plus fastball, but not like that. The command was so off. I'd actually say the opposite, fastball velo is one of the few things you can't just write off to small sample size. I know he hasn't had time to fully ramp up this spring, but... missing four-five tics off your fastball is always concerning. Guys don't ramp up THAT much in spring training.
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Post by dirtdog on Mar 29, 2019 9:08:42 GMT -5
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Post by greatscottcooper on Mar 29, 2019 9:13:30 GMT -5
Sale struggles for the first month, and Price pitches like a Cy-Young candidate. By mid-season they're the best 1-2 punch in baseball.
Homerish? yeah...well...whatever.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Mar 29, 2019 9:26:36 GMT -5
Big sports night...late Sox game, late Duke game...and oh yeah, the Celtics...
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 29, 2019 9:33:27 GMT -5
Today they had a 2-0 lead but didn't really capitalize and then the roof caved in on Sale. I guess that's the other thing. He had no command. I don't care that he wasn't throwing 99 - kind of glad he wasn't, but I know one thing. He'll have a helluva time getting back to that 2.11 ERA he carried last year. I think that will be tough to match when you give up 7 runs in 3 innings. Don't know if he had an outing as bad last year. I expected some struggles without him using his plus fastball, but not like that. The command was so off. I'd actually say the opposite, fastball velo is one of the few things you can't just write off to small sample size. I know he hasn't had time to fully ramp up this spring, but... missing four-five tics off your fastball is always concerning. Guys don't ramp up THAT much in spring training. Last year first four starts, 94.32, 92.99, 93.91, and 90.82 average on fastball. This year 92.77, which given his light workload seems fine to me. He's not down four to five on his fastball from this time last year.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Mar 29, 2019 9:45:21 GMT -5
Yeah. I am not going to worry about Sale...until his arm falls off. As he gets older and the stuff may diminish, he will find a way. He made command mistakes and they pounded them. Credit to their hitters and however else they cheated to get the win.😎
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Mar 29, 2019 9:50:33 GMT -5
I'd actually say the opposite, fastball velo is one of the few things you can't just write off to small sample size. I know he hasn't had time to fully ramp up this spring, but... missing four-five tics off your fastball is always concerning. Guys don't ramp up THAT much in spring training. Last year first four starts, 94.32, 92.99, 93.91, and 90.82 average on fastball. This year 92.77, which given his light workload seems fine to me. He's not down four to five on his fastball from this time last year.It's closer to that if you look at his early max velos from last year instead of the averages. But yeah, the velocities he showed yesterday weren't unprecedented/apocalyptic for him (the actual numbers weren't available for original post), but they were about as low as we've seen him. Let me put it this way, if he even touched the upper 90s a couple times yesterday, I'd write the start off completely, regardless of pretty much anything else that happened. Iffy velocity though is the one thing I'm willing to take at least a little bit seriously from a one-game sample, so I remain at least slightly nervous about his health.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Mar 29, 2019 11:15:38 GMT -5
Last year first four starts, 94.32, 92.99, 93.91, and 90.82 average on fastball. This year 92.77, which given his light workload seems fine to me. He's not down four to five on his fastball from this time last year.It's closer to that if you look at his early max velos from last year instead of the averages. But yeah, the velocities he showed yesterday weren't unprecedented/apocalyptic for him (the actual numbers weren't available for original post), but they were about as low as we've seen him. Let me put it this way, if he even touched the upper 90s a couple times yesterday, I'd write the start off completely, regardless of pretty much anything else that happened. Iffy velocity though is the one thing I'm willing to take at least a little bit seriously from a one-game sample, so I remain at least slightly nervous about his health. If I understand correctly you're worried kind of because you don't know for sure that he has that 99 MPH heater in his back pocket if he needs until you see it. I can understand that. But with Sale, assuming that he does have that - and I get that you're not 100% sure that it's still there - I don't want to see him break it out too soon, which is what he was doing last year come June. It allowed him, with his other stuff to be quite nasty and unhittable, but it messed him up the rest of the year. Kind of reminds of when Pedro Martinez got all amped up, throwing harder than he ever threw in his life, during the 1999 All-Star game. I think I recall him saying that it was then that his physical issues really started. I took it to mean that certain body types can't live consistently with certain velocities. You think of a guy like Seaver or Ryan or Clemens or an Eovaldi having the build to throw consistently hard for long stints in a start, but Sale like Pedro is so skinny - that if he's going to throw with that velocity I wouldn't want to see it until October or perhaps if necessary in September. Of course if you can't command your fastball, like he couldn't last night, then it doesn't matter how hard you throw. Even his slider command wasn't there last night, the first HR Beckham teed off on and the gapper Santana hit. I do think he was simply out of sync. Hopefully Levangie can get him to fix it ASAP.
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 29, 2019 13:42:05 GMT -5
Is there any evidence that this “saving bullets” strategy actually works?
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dd
Veteran
Posts: 979
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Post by dd on Mar 29, 2019 13:55:50 GMT -5
Thank god we dont have to listen to that broadcast anymore I try to take it into consideration that the broadcast team never is as enjoyable when your team is getting the crap knocked out of it. Even with that in mind though, this group was just plain awful. Just could not stand listening to the blather.
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Post by jimed14 on Mar 29, 2019 14:52:54 GMT -5
Is there any evidence that this “saving bullets” strategy actually works? Well there is evidence that pitching too much tires pitchers out or leads to injury so yes.
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 29, 2019 14:58:07 GMT -5
Is there any evidence that this “saving bullets” strategy actually works? Well there is evidence that pitching too much tires pitchers out or leads to injury so yes. Which is it? Tires them out? Ok sure you get tired, but is there evidence that you’re less tired 5 days later after throwing 100 vs 120? Is there evidence that throwing 20-30 Less innings matters? Are pitchers getting hurt less?
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Post by incandenza on Mar 29, 2019 15:17:30 GMT -5
It's closer to that if you look at his early max velos from last year instead of the averages. But yeah, the velocities he showed yesterday weren't unprecedented/apocalyptic for him (the actual numbers weren't available for original post), but they were about as low as we've seen him. Let me put it this way, if he even touched the upper 90s a couple times yesterday, I'd write the start off completely, regardless of pretty much anything else that happened. Iffy velocity though is the one thing I'm willing to take at least a little bit seriously from a one-game sample, so I remain at least slightly nervous about his health. If I understand correctly you're worried kind of because you don't know for sure that he has that 99 MPH heater in his back pocket if he needs until you see it. I can understand that. I believe the concern is that reduced velocity tends to be an early indicator for the sort of injury that leads to the surgery-that-shall-not-be-named.
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Post by Don Caballero on Mar 29, 2019 15:27:36 GMT -5
Is there any evidence that this “saving bullets” strategy actually works? It works in that it helps us sleep at night, but come on let's all be real now we're all thinking injuries here.
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Post by huskies15 on Mar 29, 2019 15:52:20 GMT -5
Moving on from the Sale talk.... I am excited to see Eovaldi this year. He just had his best year and best stretch ever since coming to the Sox. Can he sustain that again this year? Hopefully he gets off to a good start today.
A few more extra base hits would obviously be nice to see as well.
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 29, 2019 16:00:51 GMT -5
Moving on from the Sale talk.... I am excited to see Eovaldi this year. He just had his best year and best stretch ever since coming to the Sox. Can he sustain that again this year? Hopefully he gets off to a good start today. A few more extra base hits would obviously be nice to see as well. He’s on my fantasy team so he better
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Post by jimed14 on Mar 29, 2019 17:24:30 GMT -5
Well there is evidence that pitching too much tires pitchers out or leads to injury so yes. Which is it? Tires them out? Ok sure you get tired, but is there evidence that you’re less tired 5 days later after throwing 100 vs 120? Is there evidence that throwing 20-30 Less innings matters? Are pitchers getting hurt less? Injuries happen most often when tired. Injuries are more likely to happen when there are more pitches thrown because there is a risk of injury on every pitch. Pitchers are throwing harder than ever so it's hard to quantify. What point are you even trying to make? That Sale should be throwing 300 innings?
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Post by jimed14 on Mar 29, 2019 17:28:39 GMT -5
Today they had a 2-0 lead but didn't really capitalize and then the roof caved in on Sale. I guess that's the other thing. He had no command. I don't care that he wasn't throwing 99 - kind of glad he wasn't, but I know one thing. He'll have a helluva time getting back to that 2.11 ERA he carried last year. I think that will be tough to match when you give up 7 runs in 3 innings. Don't know if he had an outing as bad last year. I expected some struggles without him using his plus fastball, but not like that. The command was so off. I'd actually say the opposite, fastball velo is one of the few things you can't just write off to small sample size. I know he hasn't had time to fully ramp up this spring, but... missing four-five tics off your fastball is always concerning. Guys don't ramp up THAT much in spring training. I seem to remember Kimbrel throwing 93-95 early last season and then he was up to 98-100 over the summer. I remember that because I started to panic about it. He had a limited spring as well.
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 29, 2019 18:33:28 GMT -5
Which is it? Tires them out? Ok sure you get tired, but is there evidence that you’re less tired 5 days later after throwing 100 vs 120? Is there evidence that throwing 20-30 Less innings matters? Are pitchers getting hurt less? Injuries happen most often when tired. Injuries are more likely to happen when there are more pitches thrown because there is a risk of injury on every pitch. Pitchers are throwing harder than ever so it's hard to quantify. What point are you even trying to make? That Sale should be throwing 300 innings? I’m not making a point I’m asking a question. Is there any proof to this or are we still working off what we think makes sense
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Post by grandsalami on Mar 29, 2019 19:32:39 GMT -5
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Mar 29, 2019 21:14:25 GMT -5
good god. that was a bad call.
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Post by station13 on Mar 29, 2019 21:16:43 GMT -5
We're being No Hit.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Mar 29, 2019 21:18:46 GMT -5
come on. there is some serious bullshit going on right now.
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Post by grandsalami on Mar 29, 2019 21:19:00 GMT -5
And now we are Behind.
TIME TO TANK!
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bosox
Veteran
Posts: 2,117
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Post by bosox on Mar 29, 2019 21:25:03 GMT -5
What is going on.
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