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2019 Celtics Offseason Thread
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 16, 2019 11:26:26 GMT -5
Those eight players are $69.8 million or close to it, I rounded. Cap is $109 million. So sportrac top numbers that I started with are off, because that doesn't include Baynes, Yabu or incomplete roster charges. Yet your numbers make zero sense either unless your including those charges.
That's 39.2 million, minus like 8.6 for Baynes and Yabu, then incomplete roster charge you'd still be over 27 million no? We only have $92,000 in dead money for Jackson. Unless the minimum for incomplete roster is a lot higher than I think.
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Post by texs31 on Jun 16, 2019 12:09:02 GMT -5
When I get back, I'll take a look at my calculations. I'll just say I tied them to Smith's and hes usually spot on.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 16, 2019 12:10:07 GMT -5
No longer Cs related but reports are the Davis deal will be consummated as soon as the league year opens. This means they will only have 27m in space. That's not enough for a 7-9 year max guy (Kyrie). If they had signed the draft pick and waited, they would have enough for the 7-9 yr max The Pelicans were also smart, they have a lot of pick swaps and ability to defer picks and they delayed those for a couple years post LeBron prime. I’m going to become a Pelicans fan as I am interested to see how they handle this rebuild. I see they may trade the 4th, I think that’s a mistake. They should try and get the 3rd pick from NY and draft Barrett to put with Zion. Best friends might be able to build something long term with them both. Lonzo and 4 for 3 and a future 1 or another player? Or stay at 4 and draft Culver or Garland. Randle and Zion don’t really fit together but I’d still try and keep Randle as he’s an asset that you need. Not trying to build a perfect team right now, need to gather assets. |
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Post by texs31 on Jun 16, 2019 12:31:04 GMT -5
Those eight players are $69.8 million or close to it, I rounded. Cap is $109 million. So sportrac top numbers that I started with are off, because that doesn't include Baynes, Yabu or incomplete roster charges. Yet your numbers make zero sense either unless your including those charges. That's 39.2 million, minus like 8.6 for Baynes and Yabu, then incomplete roster charge you'd still be over 27 million no? We only have $92,000 in dead money for Jackson. Unless the minimum for incomplete roster is a lot higher than I think. Better to just say all guaranteed contracts plus draft picks, holds and dead money. Everytime I add a player to my list I forget another. But they were all included in the calc |
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Post by swingingbunt on Jun 16, 2019 12:43:29 GMT -5
27m is what I've seen posted on other boards as well. I'm not cap expert so I've just gone off of that.
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Post by texs31 on Jun 16, 2019 13:18:32 GMT -5
Smith believes that while the deal is in place, LAL may still look to convince NO to wait so they can get the full max space. As currently constructed, I don't believe there is any benefit to the Pels waiting but, if I understand correctly, the Lakers can still try and entice them somehow.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 16, 2019 19:18:19 GMT -5
No longer Cs related but reports are the Davis deal will be consummated as soon as the league year opens. This means they will only have 27m in space. That's not enough for a 7-9 year max guy (Kyrie). If they had signed the draft pick and waited, they would have enough for the 7-9 yr max The Pelicans were also smart, they have a lot of pick swaps and ability to defer picks and they delayed those for a couple years post LeBron prime. I’m going to become a Pelicans fan as I am interested to see how they handle this rebuild. I see they may trade the 4th, I think that’s a mistake. They should try and get the 3rd pick from NY and draft Barrett to put with Zion. Best friends might be able to build something long term with them both. Lonzo and 4 for 3 and a future 1 or another player? Or stay at 4 and draft Culver or Garland. Randle and Zion don’t really fit together but I’d still try and keep Randle as he’s an asset that you need. Not trying to build a perfect team right now, need to gather assets. That deal looks a lot better with the pick swap and they can defer that 2024 pick to 2025 if they want. Like OMG did they not learn from the Nets? |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 16, 2019 20:24:40 GMT -5
The Pelicans were also smart, they have a lot of pick swaps and ability to defer picks and they delayed those for a couple years post LeBron prime. I’m going to become a Pelicans fan as I am interested to see how they handle this rebuild. I see they may trade the 4th, I think that’s a mistake. They should try and get the 3rd pick from NY and draft Barrett to put with Zion. Best friends might be able to build something long term with them both. Lonzo and 4 for 3 and a future 1 or another player? Or stay at 4 and draft Culver or Garland. Randle and Zion don’t really fit together but I’d still try and keep Randle as he’s an asset that you need. Not trying to build a perfect team right now, need to gather assets. That deal looks a lot better with the pick swap and they can defer that 2024 pick to 2025 if they want. Like OMG did they not learn from the Nets? The one thing is they can always tear it down and open space and attract free agents to LA. LeBron is a weird turnoff to other stars. |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jun 17, 2019 4:30:28 GMT -5
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jun 17, 2019 4:50:10 GMT -5
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jun 17, 2019 5:21:38 GMT -5
I don't want to lose Horford though, he's a huge part of this team. So if you want cap space, a team friendly extension is the best way. I would rather trade for Capela or sign Randle/Vucevic at this point. Horford is getting way older and he missed a lot more games then you'd like because of it. The Celtics need a big baller who can stay and defend in the paint. Horford only flashes in the paint defensively nowadays. |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jun 17, 2019 6:25:27 GMT -5
"There have been reports that the Celtics have had trade talks with the Rockets about their talented young center, Clint Capela, who has four years left on his five-year, $90 million deal. A league source said Saturday that the Celtics are intrigued by Capela, but that the sides have not had any trade talks and that a deal for Capela is unlikely because Boston would not have interest in surrendering the players needed to complete the trade."
So no Capela either unless something drastic changes. What a wonderful off-season this is turning out to be already.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jun 17, 2019 6:39:40 GMT -5
Honestly, I'm glad that the Celts didn't destroy their future for 1 season of Davis as great as he is. I'm also glad that Irving will be gone. I think if they can fill in the pieces well, they'll be able to function as a team better going forward and Tatum and Brown will step up their games. Irving showed that he cannot lead a young team. I don't fault Ainge for bringing Irvin in. It's too bad Thomas is a shell of his former self. That was a guy who loved be a Celtic. Never had that impression with Irving. I hope you enjoy the 3-8 seeds for a while. Watching likeable 21 year old kids is nice until you realize how much it sucks that you lose and at the end of the year you're saying "kids came up short, but what did you expect? They tried hard and I loved watching them play." Of course, what am I saying? This is a Soxprospects website. Everyone here mostly overates the young talent/assets and thinks that's the way to build a team in the NBA and it's usually not. Golden State sort of pulled it off, but they also pulled off getting a top 5 player in the league too in Durant. There's no more top 5 talents available for a long time now. Durant might be one next year if he opts into his player option and becomes a free agent in 2020, but he'll be 32 or 33 and coming off a achilles injury. What a terrible blow to the Celtics that they had a chance to capitalize the past few years and didn't because they didn't take a chance on Leonard, for example. They didn't land Durant. They couldn't find a way to build around Kyrie. Just failing here everywhere you look. Now they are in no man's land waiting for a prayer on Tatum to be great and hoping someone really great becomes available in 2-3 years. |
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 17, 2019 9:43:59 GMT -5
Honestly, I'm glad that the Celts didn't destroy their future for 1 season of Davis as great as he is. I'm also glad that Irving will be gone. I think if they can fill in the pieces well, they'll be able to function as a team better going forward and Tatum and Brown will step up their games. Irving showed that he cannot lead a young team. I don't fault Ainge for bringing Irvin in. It's too bad Thomas is a shell of his former self. That was a guy who loved be a Celtic. Never had that impression with Irving. I hope you enjoy the 3-8 seeds for a while. Watching likeable 21 year old kids is nice until you realize how much it sucks that you lose and at the end of the year you're saying "kids came up short, but what did you expect? They tried hard and I loved watching them play." Of course, what am I saying? This is a Soxprospects website. Everyone here mostly overates the young talent/assets and thinks that's the way to build a team in the NBA and it's usually not. Golden State sort of pulled it off, but they also pulled off getting a top 5 player in the league too in Durant. There's no more top 5 talents available for a long time now. Durant might be one next year if he opts into his player option and becomes a free agent in 2020, but he'll be 32 or 33 and coming off a achilles injury. What a terrible blow to the Celtics that they had a chance to capitalize the past few years and didn't because they didn't take a chance on Leonard, for example. They didn't land Durant. They couldn't find a way to build around Kyrie. Just failing here everywhere you look. Now they are in no man's land waiting for a prayer on Tatum to be great and hoping someone really great becomes available in 2-3 years. Pedro. I get your point, but Irving was never going to be the guy to lead the Celtics to the promised land. And if they traded Tatum for Davis, Davis would be gone within a year and you're left with nothing. In a way, Irving reminded me of when the Sox had Carl Everett. Great talent, but not worth the headache. I think the way they played in the post-season without Irving the year before said a lot. So for me it's less about building through youth as much as it's about casting your lot with guys who aren't going to get the job done. I don't blame Ainge for trying with Irving, but the man would need to lead if he were here, and that's not really his thing. The fact of the matter is they didn't get that far with Irving, so it makes it easier to try to do it without Irving. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 17, 2019 10:16:20 GMT -5
Only really thing of note in the ESPN one is they say where at 109 basically with Horford and thus if he opts out would have his salary in cap space. The rest is just a list of free agents, draft picks and a depth chart. You are missing nothing, the board basically covered everything in that article. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 17, 2019 10:40:34 GMT -5
I don't want to lose Horford though, he's a huge part of this team. So if you want cap space, a team friendly extension is the best way. I would rather trade for Capela or sign Randle/Vucevic at this point. Horford is getting way older and he missed a lot more games then you'd like because of it. The Celtics need a big baller who can stay and defend in the paint. Horford only flashes in the paint defensively nowadays. Your not upgrading your D with Randle or Vucevic though. I'd like to keep Horford, he'll be a lot more involved and important without Irving. Plus he just fits the roster better. Robert Williams has Capela type upside and I have a strong feeling that we draft a Washington, Clarke or Okeke in the draft. I was very impressed with Williams last year, the talent is there, he just needed to learn our defense and gain experience. Now if Horford opts out, Randle would be on my list. Heck maybe long-term that is the smart play. Yet he's not the defender Horford is. Yet we'd finally get a beast of a low post player. Randle can pass and has added a three point shot. I just wonder what his market is going to be. Do you give him a max level deal? I can't find it but another article said Danny basically feels like me, that 2018 run wasn't a fluke. He loves the young guys, the way they mix and the chemistry they have. Says Danny doesn't want to trade Tatum, Brown, or Smart, plus once Irving leaves they will move quickly to sign Rozier. So if Smart was the key to getting that Capela deal done, it sounds unlikely at this point. Kinda makes it seem Danny wasn't offering much. |
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Post by texs31 on Jun 17, 2019 11:14:29 GMT -5
I know I joked earlier about Goga Bitadze but he's now in the top 10 on boards by Vecenie (Athletic), Wasserman (Bleacher Report) and O'Conner (Ringer). ESPN has him at 17.
The C's reportedly have worked him out so he's a definite possibility and wouldn't be a stretch at 14 (unlike Yabusele who was drafted high based SOLELY on his stashability).
Danny has all but said 3 rookies will not be added to this team (1st rounders, at least)** so 1 or more are getting traded, sold or stashed. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out on Thursday.
** Admittedly, I'm grabbing this from tweets by the likes of Keith Smith, Brian Robb, etc. Didn't catch the direct quote myself so I'll add that caveat. Context would make sense but in the spirit of full disclosure.
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Post by texs31 on Jun 17, 2019 11:18:33 GMT -5
I do wonder if they'll let the market play out with Rozier. I don't think they want to bid against themselves. He's restricted and where his value was versus where it might be now is such a disparity that they might just want to see what the league thinks.
It could help Boston that Russell could leave BRK when (do we bother with if at this point?) Kyrie signs. He's likely plan A for many teams (I've heard Indiana as a spot) and that will take away a team of interest for Rozier. His market could shrink quickly and he's left in a similar position as Smart last year.
Not sure I like him as the PG of the future but do agree that Boston should re-sign him as an asset.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 17, 2019 11:37:19 GMT -5
Honestly, I'm glad that the Celts didn't destroy their future for 1 season of Davis as great as he is. I'm also glad that Irving will be gone. I think if they can fill in the pieces well, they'll be able to function as a team better going forward and Tatum and Brown will step up their games. Irving showed that he cannot lead a young team. I don't fault Ainge for bringing Irvin in. It's too bad Thomas is a shell of his former self. That was a guy who loved be a Celtic. Never had that impression with Irving. I hope you enjoy the 3-8 seeds for a while. Watching likeable 21 year old kids is nice until you realize how much it sucks that you lose and at the end of the year you're saying "kids came up short, but what did you expect? They tried hard and I loved watching them play." Of course, what am I saying? This is a Soxprospects website. Everyone here mostly overates the young talent/assets and thinks that's the way to build a team in the NBA and it's usually not. Golden State sort of pulled it off, but they also pulled off getting a top 5 player in the league too in Durant. There's no more top 5 talents available for a long time now. Durant might be one next year if he opts into his player option and becomes a free agent in 2020, but he'll be 32 or 33 and coming off a achilles injury. What a terrible blow to the Celtics that they had a chance to capitalize the past few years and didn't because they didn't take a chance on Leonard, for example. They didn't land Durant. They couldn't find a way to build around Kyrie. Just failing here everywhere you look. Now they are in no man's land waiting for a prayer on Tatum to be great and hoping someone really great becomes available in 2-3 years. So if we can build a Golden State team minus Durant you'd be disappointed? Like if not for Thompson getting injured twice, they likely beat the Raptors without Durant. They went to three straight finals without Durant and would have won last year without him easily. You act like they needed Durant, when he just made the top team that much better. Yet you got Durant because they played the smart game and developed their young talent. They were destroying teams with Barnes at SF before Durant. Like step one to get a star is to get back to being the top young team in the league like everyone thought a year ago. Then the stars want to come here and you have leverage. I don't think anyone overrates our young talent on this board, yet you seem to dismiss it because you want to win yesterday. Which is fine, yet you gotta admit over the years you would have made some stupid trades right? That's what happens when it's all about the now and not looking at the future. Wouldn't surprise me one bit if Tatum has an all-star level season next year. Brown going into his 4th year could easily take another big step. Like if you compare these guys at their age to other players you can't help but get excited. Tatum has been much better than guys like Pierce and Hayward were as young players. Brown has been better than Leonard was as a young player. Nevermind those guys did something almost no young guys do, win in the playoffs. They were up 3-2 on the great LeBron, then there inexperience finally caught up with them. I just don't see how you can overvalue young guys like that. Teams don't trade guys like that, they trade guys like the Lakers bunch that put up stats but can't win games. Our young guys win games. So you have that 2018 core, getting older and better. Add the upside of Williams, which is high. Like if it clicks, he fully understands the game and Stevens system he's your Capela type player. Heck he's likely a much better shot blocker than Capela. Sure that is dreaming on upside, he has a long way to go. Yet he's the most physically gifted young center we've had in a long time. That's why most mocks had him in the lottery before he fell. Yet after the missed news conference he seemed to get his act together and have no issues. Even got a place right next door so he can't be late and can put his work in. Add in three more draft picks and we should be excited about our future, not upset. Embrace the process! Get excited about the draft, if they get a few more high upside guys you'll have your core or the pieces needed to get that star player you want. Danny had me a little scared for a second, but in the end does what he does. Make the smart moves and that's why we should trust him. He will gamble, but only when it's smart and the cost is right. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 17, 2019 12:27:41 GMT -5
I know I joked earlier about Goga Bitadze but he's now in the top 10 on boards by Vecenie (Athletic), Wasserman (Bleacher Report) and O'Conner (Ringer). ESPN has him at 17. The C's reportedly have worked him out so he's a definite possibility and wouldn't be a stretch at 14 (unlike Yabusele who was drafted high based SOLELY on his stashability). Danny has all but said 3 rookies will not be added to this team (1st rounders, at least)** so 1 or more are getting traded, sold or stashed. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out on Thursday. ** Admittedly, I'm grabbing this from tweets by the likes of Keith Smith, Brian Robb, etc. Didn't catch the direct quote myself so I'll add that caveat. Context would make sense but in the spirit of full disclosure. He's in that range on most mocks. After watching a lot of him I can see it. He's skilled, moves a lot better than Zizic, but it's also hard because every game had him going against much smaller players. International guys are hard, Yabu and Zizic prove that. So we'll see what Danny thinks. Just one thing, most people think he's ready now, calling him the most NBA ready center in the draft. Does he want to come over now or is he willing to stay overseas? Like that played a role with Yabu, Zizic, and Zubac a few years back. Zubac fell because he didn't want to stay overseas and wanted to come over right away. He's also a guy who was projected close to lottery, then went early second round. International guys are so hard and we picked the wrong ones last time. Not sure I'd put much weight into who worked out for the Celtics. The last list had just about everyone that will be in our range came in for a workout. You might get more information from a list showing who hasn't worked out for the Celtics or who like Terrance Davis had a second workout. Yet he's the only guy I've seen have two so far. I'd add another option, take a guy like Okeke who is injured. He goes on the injured list and frees up a roster spot. I also don't think anything is off the table, really depends how things unfold during the draft and what other teams want to or are willing to do. I don't think anything could surprise me with this draft, it's very unique and frankly I expected a lot of moves to be made. So many players all over the place in rankings, so many teams with multiple picks. Yet I do see Danny's point. The roster starts to fill up with three rookies, nevermind that second round pick. All four picks, plus Horford and Rozier puts you at 14. Say second round pick takes a two way contract your still at 13. Which isn't ideal at all. Like 12 is a much better number to fill out the roster with Veterans. Yet I just hope we don't make a stupid move because of it. If Bitadze is the best guy at 14 and solves another issue go for it. Just don't take him over better players because you don't want three rookies. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 17, 2019 12:43:01 GMT -5
I do wonder if they'll let the market play out with Rozier. I don't think they want to bid against themselves. He's restricted and where his value was versus where it might be now is such a disparity that they might just want to see what the league thinks. It could help Boston that Russell could leave BRK when (do we bother with if at this point?) Kyrie signs. He's likely plan A for many teams (I've heard Indiana as a spot) and that will take away a team of interest for Rozier. His market could shrink quickly and he's left in a similar position as Smart last year. Not sure I like him as the PG of the future but do agree that Boston should re-sign him as an asset. Usually the restricted market takes time. You could wait, hoping his market disappears and you get a better deal. Yet the flip side is that teams with cap space that miss out on other options could then turn to him. Guys like Parker and Levine come to mind as restricted guys that got big offers late in the process. I'm not sure there is a right way to proceed with Rozier. Yet if you really want to keep and feel good about a certain number I'd make it sooner rather than later. If you lose him, you want options to replace him. Wait too long and there might not be many. I mean Smart got heck a little more than I thought he was worth with zero market. Like he had zero options and still got 4 years 52 million. Kinda like with Bradley years ago Danny will overpay if he can lock up a player he really likes. So I wouldn't be afraid to start with a quick first offer around Smarts numbers. They made him a similar offer last year. I'd have to think about things like a four year 70 million deal. At a certain point he could go from asset to negative contract. |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jun 17, 2019 13:33:14 GMT -5
I hope you enjoy the 3-8 seeds for a while. Watching likeable 21 year old kids is nice until you realize how much it sucks that you lose and at the end of the year you're saying "kids came up short, but what did you expect? They tried hard and I loved watching them play." Of course, what am I saying? This is a Soxprospects website. Everyone here mostly overates the young talent/assets and thinks that's the way to build a team in the NBA and it's usually not. Golden State sort of pulled it off, but they also pulled off getting a top 5 player in the league too in Durant. There's no more top 5 talents available for a long time now. Durant might be one next year if he opts into his player option and becomes a free agent in 2020, but he'll be 32 or 33 and coming off a achilles injury. What a terrible blow to the Celtics that they had a chance to capitalize the past few years and didn't because they didn't take a chance on Leonard, for example. They didn't land Durant. They couldn't find a way to build around Kyrie. Just failing here everywhere you look. Now they are in no man's land waiting for a prayer on Tatum to be great and hoping someone really great becomes available in 2-3 years. So if we can build a Golden State team minus Durant you'd be disappointed? Like if not for Thompson getting injured twice, they likely beat the Raptors without Durant. They went to three straight finals without Durant and would have won last year without him easily. You act like they needed Durant, when he just made the top team that much better. Yet you got Durant because they played the smart game and developed their young talent. They were destroying teams with Barnes at SF before Durant. The chances and probability that the Celtics have a homegrown core as good as Golden State is a 1000 to one chance. |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jun 17, 2019 13:38:10 GMT -5
I hope you enjoy the 3-8 seeds for a while. Watching likeable 21 year old kids is nice until you realize how much it sucks that you lose and at the end of the year you're saying "kids came up short, but what did you expect? They tried hard and I loved watching them play." Of course, what am I saying? This is a Soxprospects website. Everyone here mostly overates the young talent/assets and thinks that's the way to build a team in the NBA and it's usually not. Golden State sort of pulled it off, but they also pulled off getting a top 5 player in the league too in Durant. There's no more top 5 talents available for a long time now. Durant might be one next year if he opts into his player option and becomes a free agent in 2020, but he'll be 32 or 33 and coming off a achilles injury. What a terrible blow to the Celtics that they had a chance to capitalize the past few years and didn't because they didn't take a chance on Leonard, for example. They didn't land Durant. They couldn't find a way to build around Kyrie. Just failing here everywhere you look. Now they are in no man's land waiting for a prayer on Tatum to be great and hoping someone really great becomes available in 2-3 years. Pedro. I get your point, but Irving was never going to be the guy to lead the Celtics to the promised land. And if they traded Tatum for Davis, Davis would be gone within a year and you're left with nothing. In a way, Irving reminded me of when the Sox had Carl Everett. Great talent, but not worth the headache. I think the way they played in the post-season without Irving the year before said a lot. So for me it's less about building through youth as much as it's about casting your lot with guys who aren't going to get the job done. I don't blame Ainge for trying with Irving, but the man would need to lead if he were here, and that's not really his thing. The fact of the matter is they didn't get that far with Irving, so it makes it easier to try to do it without Irving. This would be true if Kyrie wasn't winning a bunch of games his first year with the Celtics and was one of the main reasons why you had the number one seed that year. Everyone focuses on this year and forgets about last year before the injury. The Celtics ceiling was proven to be really high with Kyrie. Now if he goes to the LA with LeBron and AD, they will be the new most dangerous team in the NBA. I would hate to watch that team succeed when you could have dealt for one of those guys and you had the other dude on your team and he originally wanted to stay. |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jun 17, 2019 13:41:11 GMT -5
I hope you enjoy the 3-8 seeds for a while. Watching likeable 21 year old kids is nice until you realize how much it sucks that you lose and at the end of the year you're saying "kids came up short, but what did you expect? They tried hard and I loved watching them play." Perfectly acceptable situation in my mind. Beats the hell out of "This team was a huge disappointment and every game I watched sucked. I liked last year's team better." Accepting a losing team is never acceptable for me. At least last year's team had a shot to win if the pieces came together and everyone was healthy and on the same page. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 17, 2019 14:01:36 GMT -5
We weren't the #1 seed with Irving! The Raptors had like a five game lead when Irving went down! Outside that crazy winning streak they played the same way with Irving in 2018 as this year. We know this because I've posted the numbers a million times. Yet we still keep getting we were the #1 seed, which just isn't true. I was posting Rozier ran the offense better that year before Irving even went down for the year. It's like selective memory with Irving for some reason. We only want to remember 25% of his first season and forget the other year and a half.
It's like Rozier is something like 30-8 as a starter during the regular season the last two years and that is better than any stretch with Irving the last two years even with that crazy 16 game win streak we were 28-10 with Irving. Very limited sample sizes!
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