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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 17, 2019 14:10:14 GMT -5
I do wonder if they'll let the market play out with Rozier. I don't think they want to bid against themselves. He's restricted and where his value was versus where it might be now is such a disparity that they might just want to see what the league thinks. It could help Boston that Russell could leave BRK when (do we bother with if at this point?) Kyrie signs. He's likely plan A for many teams (I've heard Indiana as a spot) and that will take away a team of interest for Rozier. His market could shrink quickly and he's left in a similar position as Smart last year. Not sure I like him as the PG of the future but do agree that Boston should re-sign him as an asset. Usually the restricted market takes time. You could wait, hoping his market disappears and you get a better deal. Yet the flip side is that teams with cap space that miss out on other options could then turn to him. Guys like Parker and Levine come to mind as restricted guys that got big offers late in the process. And those teams (the bulls) regret both those signings. Would love to dump Levine now and build young without his contract. |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jun 17, 2019 14:18:36 GMT -5
We weren't the #1 seed with Irving! The Raptors had like a five game lead when Irving went down! Outside that crazy winning streak they played the same way with Irving in 2018 as this year. We know this because I've posted the numbers a million times. Yet we still keep getting we were the #1 seed, which just isn't true. I was posting Rozier ran the offense better that year before Irving even went down for the year. It's like selective memory with Irving for some reason. We only want to remember 25% of his first season and forget the other year and a half. It's like Rozier is something like 30-8 as a starter during the regular season the last two years and that is better than any stretch with Irving the last two years even with that crazy 16 game win streak we were 28-10 with Irving. Very limited sample sizes! No you just don't like player. The Celtics were absolutely dominant with Kyrie before he went down for the season. |
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 17, 2019 14:20:25 GMT -5
And the 2018-2019 season never happened.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jun 17, 2019 14:22:50 GMT -5
And the 2018-2019 season never happened. You don't like the player either. Hope you enjoy him winning if he goes to LA. Hope you enjoy the losing of the Celtics young players too. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 17, 2019 14:38:10 GMT -5
I like Kyrie as much as anyone and I would like
him back but if he’s not let’s not act as if it’s
the end of the world. And if he is, let’s not pretend like there weren’t issues he contributed to. I only take issue with the blame being placed solely on him and I do think he was unfairly scapegoated for others not performing. That being said he was ill equipped to handle it when things turned. Which is normal for people when they are dealing with new things for the first time.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jun 17, 2019 14:42:15 GMT -5
I like Kyrie as much as anyone and I would like him back but if he’s not let’s not act as if it’s the end of the world. And if he is, let’s not pretend like there weren’t issues he contributed to. I only take issue with the blame being placed solely on him and I do think he was unfairly scapegoated for others not performing. That being said he was ill equipped to handle it when things turned. Which is normal for people when they are dealing with new things for the first time. Yeap, that's fair. He was far from perfect, but he still is and was the most talented player on this roster. Losing him will hurt, but then again, we all have time here I hope. The Celtics can be great in 3 years if all the pieces come together. |
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 17, 2019 15:30:26 GMT -5
And the 2018-2019 season never happened. You don't like the player either. Hope you enjoy him winning if he goes to LA. Hope you enjoy the losing of the Celtics young players too. Because I don't like him means that 2018-19 doesn't count? You love him so nothing you say can be trusted either if we're saying bias invalidates every statement now. |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jun 17, 2019 16:32:21 GMT -5
You don't like the player either. Hope you enjoy him winning if he goes to LA. Hope you enjoy the losing of the Celtics young players too. Because I don't like him means that 2018-19 doesn't count? You love him so nothing you say can be trusted either if we're saying bias invalidates every statement now. I don't "love" Kyrie Irving. I've actually made fun of the dude plenty of times in the past year. I recognize the talent and I realize they also won at a really high rate with him here at one point. Yeap 2018-2019 happened. There was a bunch of young players who couldn't fill roles. Kyrie proved he couldn't be the best player on a team. So what? That means you give up on a legitimate guy who could be the second best player on a title contending team? Please. The Celtics could look awfully bad in a lot of ways if AD and Kyrie are winning titles in LA. |
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 17, 2019 16:33:40 GMT -5
Because I don't like him means that 2018-19 doesn't count? You love him so nothing you say can be trusted either if we're saying bias invalidates every statement now. I don't "love" Kyrie Irving. I've actually made fun of the dude plenty of times in the past year. I recognize the talent and I realize they also won at a really high rate with him here at one point. Yeap 2018-2019 happened. There was a bunch of young players who couldn't fill roles. Kyrie proved he couldn't be the best player on a team. So what? That means you give up on a legitimate guy who could be the second best player on a title contending team? Please. Your boy is quitting the Celtics. They didn't let him go. |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jun 17, 2019 16:35:56 GMT -5
I don't "love" Kyrie Irving. I've actually made fun of the dude plenty of times in the past year. I recognize the talent and I realize they also won at a really high rate with him here at one point. Yeap 2018-2019 happened. There was a bunch of young players who couldn't fill roles. Kyrie proved he couldn't be the best player on a team. So what? That means you give up on a legitimate guy who could be the second best player on a title contending team? Please. Your boy is quitting the Celtics. They didn't let him go. He is leaving via free agency. He played right through his contract. He owes the Celtics nothing. Again. Not my boy. |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jun 17, 2019 16:40:22 GMT -5
Blame Danny Ainge for not putting better and more attractive pieces around Kyrie while he was here to make him want to stay. Now the Celtics are in purgatory until Tatum proves Danny right with his talent evaluation.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 17, 2019 16:44:19 GMT -5
Blame Danny Ainge for not putting better and more attractive pieces around Kyrie while he was here to make him want to stay. Now the Celtics are in purgatory until Tatum proves Danny right with his talent evaluation. I blame a lot of things - including fans and media for being who they are... just is what it is - we don’t live in a society where a 26 year old can make mistakes without people putting him under a microscope and shitting on him 24/7 when things aren’t good. |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jun 17, 2019 16:49:51 GMT -5
I would rather trade for Capela or sign Randle/Vucevic at this point. Horford is getting way older and he missed a lot more games then you'd like because of it. The Celtics need a big baller who can stay and defend in the paint. Horford only flashes in the paint defensively nowadays. Your not upgrading your D with Randle or Vucevic though. I'd like to keep Horford, he'll be a lot more involved and important without Irving. Plus he just fits the roster better. Robert Williams has Capela type upside and I have a strong feeling that we draft a Washington, Clarke or Okeke in the draft. I was very impressed with Williams last year, the talent is there, he just needed to learn our defense and gain experience. Now if Horford opts out, Randle would be on my list. Heck maybe long-term that is the smart play. Yet he's not the defender Horford is. Yet we'd finally get a beast of a low post player. Randle can pass and has added a three point shot. I just wonder what his market is going to be. Do you give him a max level deal? I can't find it but another article said Danny basically feels like me, that 2018 run wasn't a fluke. He loves the young guys, the way they mix and the chemistry they have. Says Danny doesn't want to trade Tatum, Brown, or Smart, plus once Irving leaves they will move quickly to sign Rozier. So if Smart was the key to getting that Capela deal done, it sounds unlikely at this point. Kinda makes it seem Danny wasn't offering much. I'd take the improved rebounding over the defense. It's only a matter of time before Horford isn't moving all that well because of the barking knees he has had the past few years. His defense won't be all that good when he starts moving around worse as he gets older. Horford should go chase a title before he's completely usless. That's what I'd do. That's the last thing he needs to do before he retires, win a title. |
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 17, 2019 17:26:32 GMT -5
Blame Danny Ainge for not putting better and more attractive pieces around Kyrie while he was here to make him want to stay. Now the Celtics are in purgatory until Tatum proves Danny right with his talent evaluation. I blame a lot of things - including fans and media for being who they are... just is what it is - we don’t live in a society where a 26 year old can make mistakes without people putting him under a microscope and shitting on him 24/7 when things aren’t good. These guys put themselves in this position when they start making demands and holding the team hostage if they don't do what they want. |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jun 17, 2019 17:49:54 GMT -5
I blame a lot of things - including fans and media for being who they are... just is what it is - we don’t live in a society where a 26 year old can make mistakes without people putting him under a microscope and shitting on him 24/7 when things aren’t good. These guys put themselves in this position when they start making demands and holding the team hostage if they don't do what they want. Kyrie never did any of that here. Wrong player you're thinking of. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 17, 2019 18:29:43 GMT -5
I blame a lot of things - including fans and media for being who they are... just is what it is - we don’t live in a society where a 26 year old can make mistakes without people putting him under a microscope and shitting on him 24/7 when things aren’t good. These guys put themselves in this position when they start making demands and holding the team hostage if they don't do what they want. That may be but what demands did Kyrie make? You can also say it is how it is around here and comes with the territory but that doesn’t make it right nor does it make it something that won’t change a persons opinion of a place. We like to say “he can’t hack it here”, sone times that’s true but in some cases they don’t want to deal with the BS. |
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Post by texs31 on Jun 17, 2019 19:50:54 GMT -5
What I find interesting is the outright refusal to address Rozier's role in losses when he was coming of the bench. We want to throw around the W/L record of when he started vs Kyrie did. But Rozier played in a lot of those games that Kyrie started and his performance was noticeably (statistically) different. To wit:
Starter - 42.9% FG, 40.5% 3FG, 89.5% FT, Asst/TO about 5
Reserve - 37.5% FG, 33.7% 3FG, 75.7% FT, Asst/TO about 3
And it's not like he played great in Losses as the stats show a precipitous drop in performance vs that in wins.
We've already discussed that advance stats don't shed a kind light on rotations that had Terry in them.
And his own comments show how focused he was on the sacrifices he was making by going to the bench.
I wonder what the season would've looked like if Rozier responded to being benched 1/2 as good as Brown did.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 17, 2019 20:28:38 GMT -5
What I find interesting is the outright refusal to address Rozier's role in losses when he was coming of the bench. We want to throw around the W/L record of when he started vs Kyrie did. But Rozier played in a lot of those games that Kyrie started and his performance was noticeably (statistically) different. To wit: Starter - 42.9% FG, 40.5% 3FG, 89.5% FT, Asst/TO about 5 Reserve - 37.5% FG, 33.7% 3FG, 75.7% FT, Asst/TO about 3 And it's not like he played great in Losses as the stats show a precipitous drop in performance vs that in wins. We've already discussed that advance stats don't shed a kind light on rotations that had Terry in them. And his own comments show how focused he was on the sacrifices he was making by going to the bench. I wonder what the season would've looked like if Rozier responded to being benched 1/2 as good as Brown did. Who’s refusal? I was banging that drum pretty hard... it was like it was a badge of honor how much “better” he was as a starter. It’s not honorable to suck in an important role. Good minutes were there coming off the bench so the flow argument is BS to me, not to mention being a sixth man on the Celtics is a badge of honor or should be. They had Hall of Famers coming in as sixth men - see McHale. |
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Post by texs31 on Jun 17, 2019 21:11:48 GMT -5
Not yours
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jun 17, 2019 22:30:31 GMT -5
Yeap. Whenever Rozier sucked, it was because Kyrie didn't run the offense good, he didn't have enough minutes, he's only good when he's starting. Bunch of crap excuses.
He was one of the main reasons why the Celtics were a 4th seed. He couldn't fill a important role off the bench. Instead he just ran his mouth all season.
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Post by Don Caballero on Jun 17, 2019 23:10:38 GMT -5
He was one of the main reasons why the Celtics were a 4th seed. He couldn't fill a important role off the bench. Instead he just ran his mouth all season. Terry? Terry was very professional even though he was relegated to 3rd string PG in a contract year. Yeah he vented off some frustrations here and there, but I remember it mostly happening after the season. Kyrie was the one constantly throwing his teammates under the bus. |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jun 17, 2019 23:27:04 GMT -5
He was one of the main reasons why the Celtics were a 4th seed. He couldn't fill a important role off the bench. Instead he just ran his mouth all season. Terry? Terry was very professional even though he was relegated to 3rd string PG in a contract year. Yeah he vented off some frustrations here and there, but I remember it mostly happening after the season. Kyrie was the one constantly throwing his teammates under the bus. I blame both of them, everyone seemed to hate each other personally and it affected their play professionally. Kyrie doesn't get a pass for running his mouth either. Neither does Marcus Morris. |
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Post by ryan24 on Jun 18, 2019 6:53:42 GMT -5
First post in many months. I think we can all agree that the chemistry on the team this year was very BAD. Terry and Morris were playing for new contracts and hopefully lots of money. Kyrie seemed to be more worried about the world being flat and playing for his own ego. I am great it is everyone else's fault if we lose. Hayward was probably given too big a role too soon. Jason and Jaylon I think were frustrated most of the time by lack of development with their roles on the team. Poor Brad had no clue how to fix any or all of these situations. Total mess. I think that we should look at keeping Terry and give him a good contract, not a great one. If someone else offers more then good for him. I think this fixes the problem. Morris, good player who looks like he plays for contracts not for championships. Let him walk. Kyrie, WOW love him or hate him. Seems to me to be the type of player like Melo, Westbrook, Harden, and Dominque was. Great player but their teams do not win the trophy. I am not blaming him for the demise of this year's team, but we would be better off without him. I look at GS and see three number one players on the same team who share because they want to win it all. Because he wanted to win, it cost Klay $31 mil. Hayward definitely was not ready for the role he was given. I think Brad trusted him and knew him from college, which shaded his thought process. J and J had played BIG roles the previous year and then got pushed aside a lot. I think if Morris is gone and they work on Hayward blending with the two then this situation goes away. Brad or even coach K could not fix the situation with so many issues. He's a smart and I think he will adjust. Danny needs to help him some. We are entering probably the most WILD and WACKY free agency time in league history, to say we will be a 3 to 8 seed going forward is hard to say this soon. Danny is a gambler, who's to say what he has up his sleeve right now. I do agree that we need rebounding and need to play more GS team ball.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 18, 2019 7:13:15 GMT -5
I really don’t know what I want them to do with the 14th pick. I actually don’t like any of the guys there at 14 but I’d like them later so I’m resigned to the fact that it’s almost impossible for that pick not to be some sort of reach based on it being a lottery pick. It’s best just to ignore the pick number and take a player you like.
Right now guys who are giving me interest at 14:
Herro, Washington, Langford..
Guys I would like at 20/22: Okeke and Ty Jerome...
Okeke is just so perfect for this team if he can get back to what he was. At the point, I want him badly which means he won’t be here.
Jerome just seems like the perfect 3rd point guard who could develop into more. It’s a boring safe pick but how many upside rookies can you develop? A plug and play guy makes things easier on your team and staff which could help the rest of them.
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Post by philarhody on Jun 18, 2019 9:36:36 GMT -5
I think you’ve got to reach for the biggest upside play available at each of these picks and hope you get lucky with one of them.
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