cdj
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Posts: 15,862 
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Post by cdj on Jun 19, 2019 7:10:28 GMT -5
never have these eyes seen a bigger cancer than kyrie irving
He almost single handedly destroyed what could have been a premier team for a full decade
Still think they’ll be good though. Probably not title contenders but a lot more fun to root for than last years slop
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 19, 2019 7:32:09 GMT -5
never have these eyes seen a bigger cancer than kyrie irving He almost single handedly destroyed what could have been a premier team for a full decade Still think they’ll be good though. Probably not title contenders but a lot more fun to root for than last years slop They can basically return a better team than the year before this one next year. Sure no Horford, but Horford isn’t Horford from 2 years ago any more and it’s just going to get worse as he ages. He moves slower, plays less minutes and less games as the years go on. If they bring back Terry to start and add a Randle plus whoever they can get on the full nontax payer midlevel, you’ll have a really good potentially eastern conference champs team. If Leonard leaves Toronto it’s wide open. |
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Post by ryan24 on Jun 19, 2019 8:01:35 GMT -5
Like I said earlier, WILD and WACKY time for the NBA over the next 4 or 5 weeks. Who would give Al a 4 yr $100 mil contract at his age? What does Danny have up his sleeve? Is it Danny's fault that AD does not like Boston? Danny took a shot with Kyrie and it did not work out. It seems based on what has been said above that the C's have some money on a second tier FA. Not a max or super max. They also will have 2 exception slots. 3 1st round picks. Lots of capital to work with. What's up Danny's sleeve? I believe that the raptors won without a lottery pick on the roster. Definitely need a rim protector and rebounder. How much gas is left in the tank for Tyson C. Need a backup point guard. I can see a pile load of trades during the draft. Maybe B Lopez, Brogden from the bucks, D Russell, D Callison, and maybe Randle. WOW WOW wild and wacky. Need team chemistry. Team shooting should improve some with the ball not getting stuck with kyrie and running the shot clock down. Is Tatum the star they think he could be? What is Danny really going to do? No telling.
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Post by texs31 on Jun 19, 2019 8:23:21 GMT -5
The worst thing that Kyrie ever did here was throw that lob to Hayward (I mean that somewhat tongue-in-cheek). If that doesn't happen, this whole thing looks different. May STILL not have worked out, but it'd look different to be sure.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 19, 2019 9:07:32 GMT -5
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 19, 2019 9:15:26 GMT -5
Agree that if you keep Rozier, he should start to boost the stock. Meant not the starter as in long term. For me if you trade up for a PG like Garland or White I don't bring back Rozier. I'd move onto a cheaper shorter term option at PG. Unless that PG can play SG and doesn't need the ball. Rozier isn't good playing SG and he certainly isn't good playing next to a ball dominant PG. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 19, 2019 9:18:37 GMT -5
Trading up makes so much sense for this reason alone. Sign Randle for a max slot if you have to, trade up, start building a new young core because that's all you have left at this point. You won't save much money trading up, as the 4th pick gets a much bigger contract. You save more money trading a pick or stashing a pick. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 19, 2019 9:39:59 GMT -5
Agree that if you keep Rozier, he should start to boost the stock. Meant not the starter as in long term. For me if you trade up for a PG like Garland or White I don't bring back Rozier. I'd move onto a cheaper shorter term option at PG. Unless that PG can play SG and doesn't need the ball. Rozier isn't good playing SG and he certainly isn't good playing next to a ball dominant PG. I feel like we go thru this every year. I don’t see the real possibility of trading up to get either of those players. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 19, 2019 9:48:17 GMT -5
For me if you trade up for a PG like Garland or White I don't bring back Rozier. I'd move onto a cheaper shorter term option at PG. Unless that PG can play SG and doesn't need the ball. Rozier isn't good playing SG and he certainly isn't good playing next to a ball dominant PG. I feel like we go thru this every year. I don’t see the real possibility of trading up to get either of those players. Neither do I, just saying if you do. Given this draft, it's not crazy. I wouldn't do it and I don't think we'd hear rumors if it was going to happen, just Danny seeing what's out there in my opinion. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 19, 2019 9:52:15 GMT -5
If your into Kevin Pelton draft projections one name is crazy interesting, his #2 guy is Okeke behind Zion. Which is surprising when looking at his stats, yet his system looks at everything like age, size, production, etc.
I didn't need another reason to love Okeke, but I now have one.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 19, 2019 10:13:55 GMT -5
If your into Kevin Pelton draft projections one name is crazy interesting, his #2 guy is Okeke behind Zion. Which is surprising when looking at his stats, yet his system looks at everything like age, size, production, etc. I didn't need another reason to love Okeke, but I now have one. I’m fully on the Okeke train. I wouldn’t even be upset if they took him at 14 considering that options that are likely to be there. I prefer they get him at 20 tho. |
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mobaz
Veteran
Posts: 3,044
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Post by mobaz on Jun 19, 2019 10:54:02 GMT -5
What might it take to get Mike Conley? Turns out that |
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Post by texs31 on Jun 19, 2019 11:12:09 GMT -5
For me if you trade up for a PG like Garland or White I don't bring back Rozier. I'd move onto a cheaper shorter term option at PG. Unless that PG can play SG and doesn't need the ball. Rozier isn't good playing SG and he certainly isn't good playing next to a ball dominant PG. How far up the board could the Celtics get if they traded their 14 and 20 picks? I found a simulator that said they could get into the 4-5 range if they package those picks together, but I'm not sure how accurate that is. @dangercart does an analysis that attempts to mirror the NFL's Draft Value Chart (others do as well). He DOES admit though that the chart doesn't account for the fact that you often have to overpay to move up. Also, I believe UMASS or RJP said it in a previous post (sorry if I'm misremembering) but an NBA Draft value chart is probably impacted by the strength of the draft (or, at least separation between the tiers) much more than the NFL would be. |
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Post by texs31 on Jun 19, 2019 11:24:18 GMT -5
I've decided that the thing I'll root for the hardest this offseason is for AL and Kawhi to join forces on the Clippers.
2nd on this list might be making a small trade for Jae and signing IT and Bradley (assuming he's released) for small deals. Then we just wait to see if Evan Turner is bought out and . . . voila
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 19, 2019 12:47:15 GMT -5
For me if you trade up for a PG like Garland or White I don't bring back Rozier. I'd move onto a cheaper shorter term option at PG. Unless that PG can play SG and doesn't need the ball. Rozier isn't good playing SG and he certainly isn't good playing next to a ball dominant PG. How far up the board could the Celtics get if they traded their 14 and 20 picks? I found a simulator that said they could get into the 4-5 range if they package those picks together, but I'm not sure how accurate that is. Using Kevin Pelton of ESPN chart, which he says is adjusted based on the strength of this draft. 14 is 1400, 20 is 1070, so that is basically equal to number 4 pick at 2440 vs 2470 for those two picks. #1 is 4000, #2 3100, and #3 2680, also pick #22 is 950. So all three picks is worth 3420 or more than the #2 pick. I have to say I've never seen Pelton do this before and the idea of draft value charts for the NBA draft have never been highly used. So much depends on how you rank guys and things like a tier system. That Kevin Pelton chart tells me he doesn't like this draft that much. When has a 14, 20, and 22 package or anything close to that got a team into even the top 5? Yet he rates it that you'd be overpaying by a pick equal to almost pick 37 in this draft if you traded for pick #2. I'm highly skeptical, like don't buy it for a second. Teams don't like to drop that far, you leave one tier for another. Realistically you can probably get to around pick 8 if the team wanted to trade pack, but that's just my two cents. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 19, 2019 12:53:46 GMT -5
What might it take to get Mike Conley? Turns out that That's a good trade for us. Allen isn't a great prospect, pick #23 isn't going to likely be a great player, the Vets aren't that good. They basically moved him for a bunch of low level lottery picks and got a lot worse. Kinda surprising trade, but we'll take all the good news we can get right now! |
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Post by texs31 on Jun 19, 2019 13:34:42 GMT -5
Rumors are that Atlanta is looking at using 8 and 10 to get up to 4 for Jarret Culver. Either way, I'm not sure Garland goes 4 (without a different team jumping up to take him or NO moving Ball to another team). Meanwhile, I've heard Phoenix covets him at 6. So that would suggest you still have to get up to 5 even if you miss on 4.
That does seem like a tall order unless you're giving up Memphis' pick. Just not sure I'm willing to do that.
EDIT: Meanwhile, Himmelsbach is reporting that teams at the top of the draft are inquiring about Jaylen Brown's availability. I'm just not sure that makes sense.
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Post by swingingbunt on Jun 19, 2019 13:41:23 GMT -5
I’d be interested in blowing the whole thing up. See what kind of draft capital you can get for Tatum and Brown and start again You almost have to. Celtics are too bad of a team to bring in star players to support these guys and they will be too good of a team to land in the lottery themselves. F'ing shame that Danny spent years building up assets just to have it blow up in his face over the last few months. |
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mobaz
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Posts: 3,044
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Post by mobaz on Jun 19, 2019 13:49:22 GMT -5
Gordon Hayward has to have negative value at this point right, given his contract? He's what is keeping the team in the in between zone. Trading Jaylen Brown for a high pick and resetting the team a year or two back makes much less sense with Hayward around. Marcus Smart a little too, since he's the gritty winner type that doesn't help if you aren't actually a winner.
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Post by texs31 on Jun 19, 2019 14:01:06 GMT -5
You do realize they have the team that went to the ECF 2 years ago with, in essence:
Hayward replacing Morris (likely an add and maybe even more) but a big hole at the C spot. Meanwhile, they still have 3 picks this year, the Memphis pick which just got more valuable today and, now, CAP room to fill the middle.
I'm not trying to glorify what's going on. It was NOT the plan. But the gloom and doom is unfounded. Yes, things could continue to go wrong where they've previously gone right:
1. The Jays could prove to be more like last year and less like the prior playoff run
2. Smart could revert back to regressing instead of progressing offensively
3. The picks could end up losing value.
4. They could find out that Rozier is more like last year's guy (but now with a guaranteed starting role and money) than the prior playoff guy
5. Hayward may NEVER get better than he was last year.
But it's just as likely some of those things DO go Boston's way. Meanwhile:
1. Cleveland is undoubtedly worse
2. Toronto would look a lot different if Leonard decides to move to LAC
3. Philly still a team on the rise but if they re-sign BOTH Harris and Butler, building around the 4 could prove challenging. And there are those who believe the Big 4 is a rough fit anyway.
4. Milwaukee will have to show Giannis that they can continue to progress or they could risk him moving to greener (warmer?) pastures.
This gloom and doom is best reserved for calling in to Felger and Mazz.
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Post by texs31 on Jun 19, 2019 14:08:03 GMT -5
Trading Hayward makes little sense, agreed. He's bound to be somewhat better (even if it's just being more consistent) next year. I don't think you ever trade a guy after his worst year unless it's a guarantee downward spiral.
Don't like trading Brown for a pick either. Not in this draft.
Someone brought up the idea of Beal again the other day. I still don't think Washington move him but it did bring to my attention that he's only 25. I just assumed (for some unknown reason) that he was closer to 30. Makes more sense to move Jaylen (who will be due a max extension) for that known commodity given that information (fits better into the new timeline) but you'd still be looking at a situation where you have 2 years to prove to him that Boston can contend before he's a Free Agent.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jun 19, 2019 14:11:52 GMT -5
I think the gloom and doom just stems from the waiting. It's been 8 years and we really only had a run of 3 years of trying to win between the Isaah Thomas, Al Horford, and Kyrie Horford run here.
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Post by texs31 on Jun 19, 2019 14:26:24 GMT -5
I get it. But once the anger subsides, getting down to pure analysis makes things look better than the middling playoff team with no hope of improving. Yes, that's still possible. Heck, GS might be forced into a ridiculous tax bill bc of 2 guys who will contribute next to nothing in 2020.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 19, 2019 14:47:12 GMT -5
Over the last eight years we have been to the Eastern Conference finals three times and the semis once. Only missing the playoffs once. It hasn't been some horrible eight year rebuild where we sucked for years. It's been a fairly entertaining eight years.
As has been pointed out the core of our last Eastern Conference run is crazy young and still here minus one guy! Like teams spend years getting to the point where we are, you don't blow it up because you wanted something different.
They really aren't in no man's land with three picks this year, now cap space, and picks like the Grizz in the future. You can use them to finish the team or use the players for trades. If Hayward doesn't bounce back you'll have a huge expiring deal to trade. We have a bunch of options. This isn't a team with no cap space or assets to improve.
I get being disappointed, but the future is still very bright for this young team.
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 19, 2019 14:55:20 GMT -5
I think the gloom and doom just stems from the waiting. It's been 8 years and we really only had a run of 3 years of trying to win between the Isaah Thomas, Al Horford, and Kyrie Horford run here. The gloom and doom is just ridiculous. It's like you last year with the Pats defense. They were on their way to a 3rd straight Super Bowl and you were practically having a tantrum because it didn't look like they would easily win the SB by 40 points halfway through the season. And then there was the endless complaining about the Red Sox when they won 119 games. Sometimes your favorite team doesn't win. Winning is hard. There are 29 other teams trying to win. Also there's a lot of random luck involved that no one can control. I watch sports to pass the time and to be entertained. That also happens when my teams don't win. Life goes on. Don't watch if you can't handle not winning all the time or change your expectations. Those are the two real options unless you like being miserable. |
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