2019 Celtics Offseason Thread

Nothing like him? Have you watched him play? He's an elite passer, great at running a team, and really good on D. He also isn't a great shooter, he's one of the closet comps to Rondo you can find. The only thing Rondo was a lot better at was or is rebounding. Rubio isn't an elite rebounding guard, just a good one. He's also not the head case Rondo was and is. 

You can certainly have your opinion, but again his less talented team won more games last year than an Irving lead team. You surround a Rubio with shooters and Scorers then shit back and enjoy the show. He'll help Tatum, Brown, Horford. Etc a ton. You can do a lot worse than a Rubio type player. Match him with an offensive guy, say like Rozier or someone like him and you can easily win with that.

Kinda hard to say we need an Irving isn't it? Given what just happened?

No it isn't hard to say that we need a Irving talent wise.

The ceiling with the Celtics wasn't last year (when everyone on the team had down years statistically besides Morris, Smart, Irving, and Brown). You'll ignore that of course. It's all Irving's fault last year in your eyes.

The peak of the Celtics with Irving was two years ago when the Celtics were 46-21 with with him in his first year here before the knee injury. They also had a stretch were they won 16 in a row at one point. They had another stretch in that dominant run where they went 36-8.

Hey the Jazz went 50-32 with Rubio. Number 5 seed. Yay!!! Wee!!! Team ball!!! 61% winning percentage!! Less talent!!

Irving and the Celtics were 4 wins shy of 50 wins in 67 games his first year here. The Celtics had a dominant winning percentage of 68.7% during his first 67 game stretch here. They were the number 1 seed at the time.

Irving at his best is better with this team. You'll debate it endlessly. Others that don't like Iriving will agree with you. Whatever man.

And remember. Irving was NEVER supposed to play with THIS team. And the hope will be he never plays with THIS team again.

He'll likely never play with the team he was supposed to (unless, somehow, Hayeard returns to form). But if GH can come back to somewhere in between what he was before the injury and what he was last year and if Danny CAN get AD, Irving will be playing with the team that more closely resembles the team he was supposed to play with.

Doesnt take away from his role in the mess this year but it SHOULD prevent a reasonable person from assuming it would be more of the same in every scenario that involves Irving on the Cs.

Yeap. Surround Irving with better talent, you should get better results.

Sure, get him a 30 year old LeBron James and he might win another championship.

Anthony Davis at age 27 is about 1/10th the player that 30 year old LeBron James was.  You cannot compare them.  30 year old LeBron James would take the Pelicans to the playoffs every year no matter who was on the team.

It was dominant, but it was a short stretch, where the team rallied around an injury and blocked out the issues. That 22-5 stretch doesn't mean more than the 19-14 that came after it or the 37-30 we were with Irving this year or the 5-4 during the playoffs. It was like a honeymoon period where everything went just right. It's less than 25% of his games as a Celtic, since then his teams have been worse than the Jazz you make fun of. If it wasn't luck then what? Sure looks like an outlier to me.

When Rondo was a young Celtic I rooted for his growth and generally enjoyed watching him play. Tommy H once noted that he made quick decisions when the ball was passed to him -- ie, he either shot passed or drove, and quickly -- and he felt that bode well for his future as a team player.

At some point before he got sent out of town I stopped enjoying his play. He dominated the ball, pound pound pound, likely in search of assists. He stopped trying on D. Yuk. Good riddance.

Rubio has his shortcomings as a player. But I've always found him a joy to watch. He moves the ball quickly and decisively. He does play D, at a high level. I think I'd be very happy watching him play for the Celtics next year. And I expect his coaches and teammates would be happy as well.

The Gordon factor is a huge one for the C's, obviously. I will remain optimistic that he returns to form, how long did it take Paul George to get back to form? If he doesn't then the C's are kind of screwed with that contract obviously.

He along with Kyrie, AD, Brown, Smart and Horford would win it all. That is the only route to the finals, yes it kind of sucks to say that after watching a Kyrie led team this past season but sometimes the truth hurts. Just have to hope for a more mature Kyrie with the addition of AD and rebirth of GH. I know that is a little hopeful but it's the only path other than waiting and hoping for Tatum and Brown to become superstars, which may or may not happen. Which path is more likely to materialize? Its a matter of opinion, I have stated mine.

On another note I'm not sure how to reckon the arguments on AD. In my opinion he is one of the top 5 players in the league but then you have umass focusing on him not leading the Pels to winning. I imagine him and Horford out there dominating along with Kyrie and Hayward, that seems rather unstoppable.

Cross 1 name off the list of potential additions:

NBA has DQ'd Tyreke Evans from the league for a banned substance. Can apply for reinstatement after 2 years.

It's all about what you believe it takes to win a Championship, just talent or a team that plays team Basketball or both. I'm a huge believer in team Basketball, where the whole is better than the pieces. That was the 2018 team playoff version and the 2019 team was the opposite. Mainly because only LeBron was able to win on just talent and he still lost to a bunch of teams he shouldn't have.

I think Irving can mature, it's can he change the way he plays and play team Basketball? He's never done it before, ever. In the trade ideas you basically get rid of every young guy, so that alone won't give him much to bitch about. Yet he's still going to have the ball and there's no LeBron to take over running the offense to let him just score. You'll have to run the offense through Davis and back out to get his full value. That requires Irving really change the way he plays. Horford isn't Davis, but he's still good on the box and a great passer and Irving did very little of that. It was the huge difference when Irving went down, much more Horford post ups and the pick and rolls increased a ton. So it's part of our offense, but it's not how Irving plays. That's the crap LeBron did, the stuff Rozier did. Like everyone would laugh at me saying Rozier ran our offense better, but it was as simple as just bringing the ball up and dumping it off to start a set play, driving to pass, and pick and roll plays. Like Rozier isn't a great point guard, but he ran our offense exactly how Brad wanted it. He ran the plays, he didn't just do whatever he wanted. As more and more reports start to come out,that was a huge issue the coaching staff and players had with Irving. The game plan and set plays would go out the window all the time.

So in Theory I see why everyone loves Davis, Irving, Horford, and Hayward. It looks really good on paper, yet so did this year's team. Like if Irving played Stevens system, I think we were easily the second best team in the East. A team that could beat the Bucks and even if we couldn't win, given them a crazy tough series. Yet they played team ball and we didn't. That resulted in those crazy runs and breakdowns in our D. I'm sure Irving will respect Davis a ton given his talent, but Davis isn't LeBron. He can't run an offense. By far his most successful season was with a pass first PG in Rondo. Who knows maybe these playoffs open Irving's eyes and he changes. It's certainly possible, I just think it's unlikely. He won a Championship playing that way and he thinks like Pedro does. It wasn't me, it was everyone else. I don't need to change I just need more talent.

So I don't think you need Tatum and Brown to be Superstars, just All-Star type players, Massive difference. Like it's not far fetched if you made them the top two options with a good PG that they could be All-Stars next year or close too it. I already think Tatum is a better number one scoring option than Hayward every was. He's not yet the passer and creator Hayward is, but he can do things Hayward only dreamed of doing already. Brown has now shown steady improvements for three straight years and seems to raise him game come playoff time. Now if you think it's likely Hayward bounces back, along with Horford you have a very good team. A team that will play team ball. A team that frankly fits those players better. Depending how you fill out the roster, I think that team wins more games than last year's team.

Now is that a true Championship team? All depends on how Danny builds it. He'll have to make some good signings, trades and make a few good draft picks. Yet it seems like the best path in my opinion. I've always believed in Tatum and in the last year Brown has opened my eyes. Like I truly believe it's a lot more likely he's an all-star type player now than he never reaches his potential. Give me a ten year run with those two guys, Stevens as the coach and Danny building the team.

bleacherreport.com/articles/2837026-nba-draft-2019-latest-mock-draft-biggest-boom-or-bust-1st-round-prospects

They have us taking three guys I really like, even if right now I'd probably take Johnson over Herro because he plays D and fits our team better.

The real question is who do you target, pieces that fit or the highest upside guys? Like Washington vs. Alexander-Walker is a tough one based on need, fit, and upside. Yet you're passing on Bol and Little who might be the two highest upside guys available. They are risky, but Little seems like a Jaylen Brown clone and Bol is like a Gobert but some say he might be the best shooter in the draft. I'd have a hard time passing on Bol. A guy like him on a defensive team, with his shooting. No injury and he goes top 5. I do have major doubts he's available though.

If that Mock is close I don't see trading up as an option, my three guys go off the board 4-6 and I'm not paying the price for the other guys. Kinda seems like a drop off after the top 6 and not much difference into the 20s outside a few players. Rather deep draft though, yet the more study it I have a hard time finding the cut-off inside or just outside the lottery. I see Bol going top 10, then late teens, same with Porter, Langford, Alexander-Walker, etc.

Bruno Fernando is an interesting guy. Very good athlete, NBA ready body right now, good production, but seems to lack feel, Basketball IQ, and the little things. So you have lottery projections and 2nd round grades. Not something you normally see. Like one scout things he's going to be like Karl Malone and the next a Favors type player, but less D. Then others he's a Tristan Thompson without the feel for the game. Bigs have become crazy hard to judge in today's NBA drafts. Yet a guy with big time upside as an inside scorer has to be something we look at.