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Post by Chris Hatfield on May 31, 2020 14:58:31 GMT -5
Yeah, Aaron Mehta is a reporter for Defense News, so he's tied in somewhat with that community. He asked two guys he works with who deal with personnel and both said the service time clock begins right at graduation. So this isn't a situation where his waiver gets denied tomorrow and it's two years from tomorrow that he has to serve before he can apply for the other waiver (which presumptively gets granted).
The question I then had was if he starts flight school in the fall, one wonders if he would leave early to go play baseball, or if he would see it through. Tough question only he can answer.
In all of this, the only true answer is that none of us knows what's going to happen.
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Post by RedSoxStats on Jun 6, 2020 12:10:58 GMT -5
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Noah Song
Jun 8, 2020 9:15:29 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Oregon Norm on Jun 8, 2020 9:15:29 GMT -5
Thanks for this link. More and clearer details than anything else to date. The reporter did the investigative work of a good journalist, getting hold of the letter and tracking down responsible military officials.
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Post by caseytins on Jun 8, 2020 15:24:42 GMT -5
So in other words, the military is still dragging their feet. Maybe when we have baseball again in 2022, he will be ready to go. Not only do we need to defund the police, but the military budget needs to be slashed in half. Money needs to be allocated in more streamlined and functional ways. This is actually looking like a great signing at the moment.
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Post by tnyankee556 on Jun 9, 2020 7:26:29 GMT -5
Can we stop with the political commentaries about police and defense funding. Let's stick with baseball.
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Post by Ryanod1 on Jun 9, 2020 14:25:35 GMT -5
I hope that Song gets his answer soon for his own sake (i'm sure like everyone here). It is clear that they are dragging their feet with this one, but I get why I think. Where his is not just lower ranked or a non comm he is clearly the exception to the rule. I would guess that the government isn't sure if #1. Losing him to the MLB would hurt the USAF. He very well may have gotten great grades, and had an exceptional career ahead of him militarily. #2. Losing him would hurt in the future with other drafted officers. If they allow him to go then it could take away future officers. In any case they are absolutely neccesary, hard to replace, and needed to hold together their branch. #3. They are trying to be carefull about the future impact on how it makes them look. I would guess that they aren't all that thrilled about allowing "exceptions" in general. For example, why should an athlete be allowed to leave, but not other people in the school.
They obviously aren't just concerned about being paid back the tuition. Thier principals are probably the major factor in all this. There is no reason that a kid should have to wait this long to know his future placement, but they do what they do. Letting Song go to the MLB would look good for them at least initially. It would also help any military school with recruiting for their programs, which in turn will way more than pay back lost tuition (even though the athletes have to pay back if opting out). Like I said above I think that they fear losing a good officer in Song potentially and/or may take away some of their best in the future. Unfortunately, them being incredibly careful about future impact is not only delaying Song, but they are getting to the point where they are crossing the line between being careful, and not dealing with the issue at all.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jun 9, 2020 15:46:06 GMT -5
You might be right, but I think it's far more likely that the real answer is it's sitting on someone's desk and nobody has looked at it. If they'd thought about it that much they'd have made a decision and either sent him to flight school or let him play. Instead he was sitting in Annapolis doing busy work. That's not something you do with a valued asset.
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Post by Ryanod1 on Jun 9, 2020 16:03:36 GMT -5
You might be right, but I think it's far more likely that the real answer is it's sitting on someone's desk and nobody has looked at it. If they'd thought about it that much they'd have made a decision and either sent him to flight school or let him play. Instead he was sitting in Annapolis doing busy work. That's not something you do with a valued asset. That's true. When I had read the article I was confused when I saw the part about him just doing the clerical stuff. I may have missed it, but do you know if they clerical portion counts towards his time served or does the clock start when he's in flight school? I really hate to think that it's just sitting on someones desk. The second I saw them approve Malcolm Perry it made me think there was more to this. I have felt the same way regarding the transfer rules in the NCAA. Not that it's the same as the government, but as a BC fan I have been waiting to see the status on Phil Jurkovic. They keep extending the transfer stuff, and it's hard to believe they can wait on something like this. The college's entire plan for recruiting is effected by the decision, which in turn makes it hard to prepare for a season. Song's case is similar where all it is doing is haulting plans for everyone. So I had assumed it was the AF being very careful about what they do with him due to potential future blowback. As a side note...I think this whole ordeal can't say enough about Song's character, and what the Sox are getting in him. The fact that he was/is doing both military service and baseball concurrently is very impressive. That is a lot to juggle im sure. His letter explaining that he was looking to fulfill his duty when his time was up baseball wise only adds to this. If I were in his shoes I would find it difficult to commit to serving if I expected a long baseball career.
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Post by Coreno on Jun 9, 2020 17:00:03 GMT -5
Does this waiver even really matter anymore? If the info that the 2 year clock started when he graduated is right, won't he have fulfilled that by May of next year? No spring training and he would be getting a late start, but isn't it possible he gets to play most of next season even without the waiver? Or am I wrong with that assumption?
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Post by chrisfromnc on Jun 10, 2020 6:24:57 GMT -5
You might be right, but I think it's far more likely that the real answer is it's sitting on someone's desk and nobody has looked at it. If they'd thought about it that much they'd have made a decision and either sent him to flight school or let him play. Instead he was sitting in Annapolis doing busy work. That's not something you do with a valued asset. I’m confident Chris’ take on this is spot on. If so, it’s a very difficult thing for Song. He can’t send a letter to the Secretary of the Navy and ask about the status of his request. He has already filed the paperwork to request the service exemption. It’s inappropriate for him to ask again. He is not being looked after properly by his commanding officer. It’s his COs job to look into the delay on behalf of ensign Song. Of course there are literally about 5 layers in the chain of command between that CO and the SecNav. But a good boss in any field, military or civilian, looks after those in his charge. Song’s boss somewhere in the chain is obviously unwilling to say, “Sir, we don’t yet have an answer from the Secretary about ensign Song. Can we get one soon?” Its why working in a massive bureaucracy is frequently painful.
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alnipper
Veteran
Living the dream
Posts: 618
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Post by alnipper on Jun 10, 2020 9:23:16 GMT -5
I know he is "missing time" with his 2 year desk work, but is it a huge deal? I highly doubt the Sox won't have him on their 40 man roster regardless. I do feel bad for Song though. The poor kid is saying and doing the right things. Hopefully he won't have any physical set backs. I know it is difficult to stay in good pitching shape while in the academy. Maybe it is more of a big deal. I'm done rambling and ready to read up on the upcoming draft tonight! And listen to a podcast.
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Post by caseytins on Jun 10, 2020 15:29:50 GMT -5
You might be right, but I think it's far more likely that the real answer is it's sitting on someone's desk and nobody has looked at it. If they'd thought about it that much they'd have made a decision and either sent him to flight school or let him play. Instead he was sitting in Annapolis doing busy work. That's not something you do with a valued asset. I’m confident Chris’ take on this is spot on. If so, it’s a very difficult thing for Song. He can’t send a letter to the Secretary of the Navy and ask about the status of his request. He has already filed the paperwork to request the service exemption. It’s inappropriate for him to ask again. He is not being looked after properly by his commanding officer. It’s his COs job to look into the delay on behalf of ensign Song. Of course there are literally about 5 layers in the chain of command between that CO and the SecNav. But a good boss in any field, military or civilian, looks after those in his charge. Song’s boss somewhere in the chain is obviously unwilling to say, “Sir, we don’t yet have an answer from the Secretary about ensign Song. Can we get one soon?” Its why working in a massive bureaucracy is frequently painful. This is why they need to have their budget slashed in half at a minimum!! I've worked for the government, along with other awful bureaucratic organizations. Noah Song will be able to pitch in 2022 if he chooses to and that is a good thing!!
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Post by Oregon Norm on Jun 10, 2020 20:04:55 GMT -5
I worked for Forest Service Research, the best outfit of its kind. I also worked for private contractors who were S--t. It has little to do with bureaucracy and everything to do with people.
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Post by chrisfromnc on Jun 11, 2020 10:11:39 GMT -5
I worked for Forest Service Research, the best outfit of its kind. I also worked for private contractors who were S--t. It has little to do with bureaucracy and everything to do with people. This is splitting hairs, but that's what you do on a message board.
The bureaucracy makes it much harder for the "people". Song's CO may be a very good person and a very good commander. He really only has influence up the chain by one rung. If he has done what he should do, he has raised the issue with his own commander. That is all he can do within the rigid structure of the military chain of command.
Someone between Noah Song and the Secretary of the Navy has not forwarded the issue. If there are three good people in the chain, but one or two who aren't effective in advocating for their subordinates, then the issue of the delay in the decision never gets raised with the Secretary of the Navy. I stand by my point that a large bureaucracy makes things like this much harder. More parts and more people need to fall in place for a quick decision on something like this.
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Post by Guidas on Jun 11, 2020 21:32:08 GMT -5
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Post by johnsilver52 on Jun 11, 2020 21:51:20 GMT -5
It all depends on what it is and who owes whom with regards to speed in the government. Having been in the military, working for a VERY short time in civie government as well.. Let me give an example on the speed of government when they wish..
I lost a blanket in San Diego, way before the day and age of internet, pc's, wireless phones.. Anything like that. The bill for that lost blanket was WAITING for me at St Petersburg, where the USS Engage was tied up and my next station at the time after flying there!
Another example is travel pay for St. Pete to Charleston SC 1 year which to this date, have never received.
It's a question of who owes whom that decides priority in the government. Ones works there and you either do someone a favor to get what you want/need, or wait and hope.
Why people think more government intrusion into our lives is the answer is baffling. it'll make things worse. I suggest they join the service and learn 1st hand.
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iii
Rookie
Posts: 46
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Post by iii on Jun 11, 2020 22:44:23 GMT -5
The 2 years service time starts at graduation, not the start of flight school. I would assume that Song want to complete flight school once he starts. After that it will be up to him when or if he joins the Sox Org.
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Post by vermontsox1 on Jun 17, 2020 14:56:40 GMT -5
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Post by Addam603 on Jun 17, 2020 15:07:28 GMT -5
Couple thoughts on this. First and foremost, I’m glad that everything got sorted out. It must have sucked these past few months for him just being in limbo. This year was shot in terms of Song playing a role so there’s really only one year left on his clock (if that’s what he chooses). As a fan, I hope he chooses to play baseball after his two years are up, but at least he knows what he’s doing now.
Song is still eligible for a waiver in May 2021.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jun 17, 2020 15:16:44 GMT -5
Eligible in May 2021, but probably will need to finish flight school, so it made sense for him to rescind his request in April given the typical 18-month time discussed in the article.
That said, it'd be very interesting if he's able to tear through flight school and finish it in, like, June of next year. That'd barely be worse than what others in his draft class have dealt with.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jun 18, 2020 11:14:33 GMT -5
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Post by mg050369 on Jun 18, 2020 15:58:05 GMT -5
FWIW, my brother is a former Air Foce pilot. He confirmed a few things for me while providing context on some other items.
i asked if it was unusual to wait that long on orders. He said no, they have 365 days and 180 is the average. Flight school lasts 12 to 18 months. 8 year additional commitment, clock starts after flight school completion.
I asked the chances of him getting a waiver after flight school. 50/50. It's more common to get a waiver after the academy, less likely after flight school due to the training cost (in the millions). Factors include how well he did in flight school and need (ex: do you have more pilots than planes or vice versa).
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jun 18, 2020 17:00:16 GMT -5
I'm going to assume that stuff about a waiver is different for athletes. Everything I've read has considered it a foregone conclusion he'd get the one after 2 years.
EDIT: There's also the fact that he's not actually going to be able to fly anything because he's too tall.
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Post by rominelettuce on Jun 18, 2020 17:05:15 GMT -5
FWIW, my brother is a former Air Foce pilot. He confirmed a few things for me while providing context on some other items. i asked if it was unusual to wait that long on orders. He said no, they have 365 days and 180 is the average. Flight school lasts 12 to 18 months. 8 year additional commitment, clock starts after flight school completion. I asked the chances of him getting a waiver after flight school. 50/50. It's more common to get a waiver after the academy, less likely after flight school due to the training cost (in the millions). Factors include how well he did in flight school and need (ex: do you have more pilots than planes or vice versa). He won't be training as a pilot, but a flight officer, whatever that is. He was told he is ineligible for a pilot slot(too tall). I'm sure the normal commitment for this training is less than for pilots, like navigators incur a 5 or 6 year commitment instead of 8. Regardless, I expect him to be available to play next summer.
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Post by johnsilver52 on Jun 18, 2020 17:49:29 GMT -5
Figuring this also Rominelettuce. Not that am familiar with many/any of today's jobs of flight officers, but navigational officer would indeed have been one from the time my own father flew with the old AAC, precursor to the USAF. There probably are more and most rates may get some flight training aboard trainer aircraft is a guess.
It's so few who join the service now that do like to see the ones who do fulfill the commitment, so am torn myself here.
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