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The Great Gilberto Jimenez
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Post by Oregon Norm on May 21, 2021 17:02:39 GMT -5
I understand the concerns about the swing plane and his MO, but the contact rate is absurd. He simply hasn't been challenged yet despite skipping a level. I'm sure they'll want to work on getting him to elevate more, but I think the profile will be useful no matter where he is if he can continue hitting a high percentage of the pitches he sees. I mean that is what the game is about. With his speed, the sort of pressure he can put on the opposition will always have a place.
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Post by voiceofreason on May 21, 2021 19:21:55 GMT -5
I understand the concerns about the swing plane and his MO, but the contact rate is absurd. He simply hasn't been challenged yet despite skipping a level. I'm sure they'll want to work on getting him to elevate more, but I think the profile will be useful no matter where he is if he can continue hitting a high percentage of the pitches he sees. I mean that is what the game is about. With his speed, the sort of pressure he can put on the opposition will always have a place. I like the consistent BA and OBP he puts up, you need table setters even in the new game. With the way things are going this year with the ball and the pitching so far it swings back to manufacturing runs. Yet that is hard also with the level of pitching so far.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on May 22, 2021 1:52:45 GMT -5
With his 9th inning 1/1, he's now 24 /60. Divide by 12.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on May 22, 2021 2:45:58 GMT -5
With his 9th inning 1/1, he's now 24 /60. Divide by 12 6. FTFY
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Post by Chris Hatfield on May 22, 2021 6:34:12 GMT -5
He simply hasn't been challenged yet despite skipping a level. Salem is Low-A now. Lol. We need to have something for every time someone forgets this (which happens to me and Ian every podcast episode fwiw).
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Post by voiceofreason on May 22, 2021 6:49:08 GMT -5
He simply hasn't been challenged yet despite skipping a level. Salem is Low-A now. Lol. We need to have something for every time someone forgets this (which happens to me and Ian every podcast episode fwiw). I'm guilty.
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Post by unitspin on May 22, 2021 9:29:27 GMT -5
He is not being challenged though, it would be nice to see him a couple weeks get a promotion. Hopefully, playing against better competition will force him to work on his swing.
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Post by beantown on May 22, 2021 10:39:51 GMT -5
Can’t help but see some similarities here with Duran’s path. Started slap happy in the low levels with his elite speed basically carrying that approach. Now with Jarren we’re looking at a hitter with potentially legit power, on the strength of a gradually improved frame and big changes in swing mechanics Will be interesting to see if Gilberto is able to also refine his approach as he rises. It’s still so early in his development. I agree it feels a bit like the challenge isn’t there for him at this level. Is a promotion to A+ really so bold? As I understand it, the A+ to AA jump is the biggest, no?
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Post by patford on May 22, 2021 10:46:06 GMT -5
Can’t help but see some similarities here with Duran’s path. Started slap happy in the low levels with his elite speed basically carrying that approach. Now with Jarren we’re looking at a hitter with potentially legit power, on the strength of a gradually improved frame and big changes in swing mechanics Will be interesting to see if Gilberto is able to also refine his approach as he rises. It’s still so early in his development. I agree it feels a bit like the challenge isn’t there for him at this level. Is a promotion to A+ really so bold? As I understand it, the A+ to AA jump is the biggest, no? One big difference is Jimemez has extraordinary bat to ball skills. As much as we love seeing Duran's blasts the fact is he's striking out a lot and hitting .240. Right now Duran at AAA is basically Renfroe without the glove and arm.
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Post by wcsoxfan on May 22, 2021 11:14:10 GMT -5
He simply hasn't been challenged yet despite skipping a level. Salem is Low-A now. Lol. We need to have something for every time someone forgets this (which happens to me and Ian every podcast episode fwiw). Did either of you receive an explanation for the switch?
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Post by julyanmorley on May 22, 2021 13:04:00 GMT -5
Can’t help but see some similarities here with Duran’s path. Started slap happy in the low levels with his elite speed basically carrying that approach. Now with Jarren we’re looking at a hitter with potentially legit power, on the strength of a gradually improved frame and big changes in swing mechanics Will be interesting to see if Gilberto is able to also refine his approach as he rises. It’s still so early in his development. I agree it feels a bit like the challenge isn’t there for him at this level. Is a promotion to A+ really so bold? As I understand it, the A+ to AA jump is the biggest, no? One big difference is Jimemez has extraordinary bat to ball skills. As much as we love seeing Duran's blasts the fact is he's striking out a lot and hitting .240. Right now Duran at AAA is basically Renfroe without the glove and arm. Yeah, his contact ability is remarkable. He leads his league in lowest strikeout % by a decent amount. He's swinging at everything and is second in the league in lowest swinging strike %.
He's likely to be valuable defensively 5 years from now. If his put everything in play and run like the wind strategy is still working, he should be able to put up a decent, empty batting average, which overall would be a nice major league package. Not everyone's gonna be Mike Trout.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on May 22, 2021 13:22:23 GMT -5
He is not being challenged though, it would be nice to see him a couple weeks get a promotion. Hopefully, playing against better competition will force him to work on his swing. I wouldn't call hitting .390 after 14 games with 5 XBH "not being challenged," personally. They let Duran hit .389 with way more pop over 50 games last year in then-High-A Salem, and that was with a slump in the last week before he got promoted.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on May 22, 2021 14:02:29 GMT -5
Can’t help but see some similarities here with Duran’s path. Started slap happy in the low levels with his elite speed basically carrying that approach. Now with Jarren we’re looking at a hitter with potentially legit power, on the strength of a gradually improved frame and big changes in swing mechanics Will be interesting to see if Gilberto is able to also refine his approach as he rises. It’s still so early in his development. I agree it feels a bit like the challenge isn’t there for him at this level. Is a promotion to A+ really so bold? As I understand it, the A+ to AA jump is the biggest, no? One big difference is Jimemez has extraordinary bat to ball skills. As much as we love seeing Duran's blasts the fact is he's striking out a lot and hitting .240. Right now Duran at AAA is basically Renfroe without the glove and arm. In fairness he’s also walking A LOT more than Renfroe walks I also think it’s a little premature to say Gilberto isn’t being challenged. He’s got a lot to work on defensively and it’s not like he’s driving the ball. Seems like the contact is solid contact which is nice at least. He’s going to always have a high BABIP at this level with his speed/Opposition single A defense so in that sense we won’t have a really good idea of what he is until he hits Portland next year
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Post by ramireja on May 28, 2021 11:31:59 GMT -5
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Post by Chris Hatfield on May 28, 2021 12:14:20 GMT -5
S/O to Ian for putting that together with the video I got last weekend.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jul 15, 2021 14:32:54 GMT -5
I just put this in the Rule 5 thread, but it would seem that Jimenez was dealing with some kind of injury in June:
5/4-5/26: 86 PA, .325/.372/.438, 16.3% K rate, only sits one of Salem's 20 games sits for 3 days and only starts 1 of 2 games of DH on 5/30 5/30-6/12: 45 PA, .205/.222/.250, 26.7% K rate, sat 4 of Salem's 14 games. 6/15-6/30: 48 PA, .348/.354/.391, 22.9% K rate, sat 3 of 14 games and left another after one at-bat. 7/1-7/14: 54 PA, .319/.370/.468, 18.5% K rate, has played every game out of 12.
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radiohix
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Post by radiohix on Jul 28, 2021 17:05:55 GMT -5
I just put this in the Rule 5 thread, but it would seem that Jimenez was dealing with some kind of injury in June: 5/4-5/26: 86 PA, .325/.372/.438, 16.3% K rate, only sits one of Salem's 20 games sits for 3 days and only starts 1 of 2 games of DH on 5/30 5/30-6/12: 45 PA, .205/.222/.250, 26.7% K rate, sat 4 of Salem's 14 games. 6/15-6/30: 48 PA, .348/.354/.391, 22.9% K rate, sat 3 of 14 games and left another after one at-bat. 7/1-7/14: 54 PA, .319/.370/.468, 18.5% K rate, has played every game out of 12. 7/1-7/27: 83 PA, .277/.330/.373, 18.1% K rate. His hitting profile makes me very skeptical: - No other hitter in Low A East swings more than he does (59.9%) - No other hitter in Low A East hits groundballs more than he does (61.3%) - He has the 2nd lowest walk rate in Low A East (3.7%) only trailing Cleveland's Alexfri Planez (3.6%) who's 19 years-old and didn't benefit from any intentional walks to "inflate" his BB% (Jimenez was IBB'd vs Fredeicksburg on July 21st). - His BB/K is the 3rd lowest in his league (0.19) So you have a free swinging hitter at the plate with no idea of the strike zone who hits tons of groundballs. Not ideal if you ask me. He also didn't make any strides since 2019 (14 SB, 6 CS) in turning that speed into a base-stealing skill: He stole 11 bases and got caught 5 times. It's Low A where holding runner is not a developmental priority for pitching prospects. Just to give folks an idea, Garin Cecchini stole 51 bases at that level. I'm sorry but I just can't comprehend the logic of giving a very valuable 40-man roster spot to a hitter like that.
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Post by julyanmorley on Jul 28, 2021 17:36:08 GMT -5
The 40 man roster spot isn't really that valuable though. If they don't protect Jimenez then that extra spot is getting used on like, Durbin Feltman.
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radiohix
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Post by radiohix on Aug 16, 2021 8:19:18 GMT -5
I mentioned this in the MiLB game thread the other day as it seems like they're playing Jimenez less and less in CF as you can see here:
| CF | RF | LF | DSL | 64 | - | - | NYPL | 58 | 1 | - | Low-A East | 40 | 22 | 10 |
And considering what Hazen has said in an interview with Speier a few years ago that jmei sums up here, a few questions should be asked: Alex Speier has an absolutely must-listen interview with Mike Hazen which touched a lot on Mookie Betts and "Zobristing" prospects: audio.weei.com/a/80648599/minor-details-ep-69-teaching-learning-versatility-with-xander-bogaerts-and-mike-hazen.htmWhat I found interesting: -Hazen discusses how the Red Sox FO likes to let players develop at one position/role in the early minor leagues to make it easier for them to focus on that one area of development. It isn't until players are in AA or higher that they usually like to have them start take reps at other positions (for instance, Hazen notes that Xander took ground balls at 2B and 3B in AA prior to his promotion in anticipation of being able to help the major league team at multiple spots) -Another reason the Red Sox don't like to play prospects at multiple positions in the low minors is that it might be putting the cart before the horse. If it turns out a guy doesn't have the bat to be worth moving to a position with a major league need, you'll have messed around with his development for nothing. Hazen implies that he wants guys to have established themselves as offensive impact players (or have stalled out and thus project to be utility players at best in the majors) before playing them at new positions. - Did the organization developmental philosophy changed lately? or
- They don't see him sticking at the position
Thoughts?
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Post by julyanmorley on Aug 16, 2021 10:21:53 GMT -5
He's splitting CF with Rafaela, who's an athletic guy with some potential. I guess they probably wouldn't do this if Jimenez was one of the very best prospects in baseball, but I don't think there's much to see here.
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radiohix
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Post by radiohix on Aug 16, 2021 15:24:39 GMT -5
Eh, he got moved to left field 2 days ago to let Angel Maita play center and Rafaela is considered a utility player ceiling type of prospect. Many publications consider Jimenez as a top 10 prospect in the system (SP ranks him 2 spots ahead of one the best pure hitters in the low minors) and he drives a lot of his value from playing an up the middle position. The Sox usually don't move VALUED prospects around in the low minors (See Duran, Jarren) which made me ask the question: Maybe they've changed the way they do things under the new management or they don't value Jimenez as highly as the said publications do. I lean toward the 2nd hypothesis.
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Aug 16, 2021 16:55:41 GMT -5
Typically you don't want to move a guy that highly rated, especially that young, because you're essentially undercutting his trade value by telling the whole world "we see him every day and we're not sure he'll stick at CF (or SS or C, depending on the kid)."
Of course, Jimenez wasn't Chaim's sign, which could matter, but also Chaim knows exactly what the rest of the league thinks of him, as of two weeks ago at the trade deadline. However, they started moving him off of CF in May, so either he knew the shine had come off Jimenez before that or they really wanted to get other guys looks in CF [N.B. When Rafaela plays OF it's been CF 42 out of 43 times.]
There must be an assumption by the Sox brass that playing Rafaela in CF boosts his value more than it hurts Jimenez's to move off. Does that mean they value Jimenez lower than outsiders realize or does it mean that the bounce that Rafaela gets is that much bigger? We'll never know unless one or both are traded and even then it probably won't be black and white.
A "modern baseball" theorist might argue that versatility trumps traditional up-the-middle proficiency in an era when fewer balls are put in play. The more options a top prospect has in the field, the more often you can put his bat in the lineup.
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Post by jmei on Aug 16, 2021 17:01:08 GMT -5
I’m not sure that I entirely believe it, but it’s a nice take with some clever thought and analysis behind it, so kudos on that.
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Post by wkdbigsoxfan on Aug 16, 2021 19:49:48 GMT -5
Seems like a prime candidate to be traded before the rule 5 draft.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Aug 16, 2021 20:04:51 GMT -5
I don’t think he’d be moved in an Aybar for Koss but if they wanted to go out and get an MLB pitcher I could see it
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