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7/30-8/1 Red Sox vs. Rays Series Thread
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Aug 1, 2019 8:54:15 GMT -5
So, what would everyone say is more likely true of the 2019 Boston Red Sox: Lack of talent this year Uncaring/indifferent No sense of urgency in that they just expect to be there in October? I mean, their pitching hasn't been good. Don't know why that has to be some sort of character issue. Just a bored, stuck in bumper-to-bumper traffic, type of question. Their pitching has been very sub-par, but it's mostly the same group of guys. Price Sale Porcello Eovaldi (granted, got hurt and is returning from injury) E-Rod (has been very good) Braiser Barnes Workman Hembree Brewer They've lost Kelly (terrible this year and wasn't great during the regular season) Kimbrel (substantial loss, though couldn't pitch more than an inning and it had to be a clean inning and a save situation) Pomeranz (yuck) They added Taylor (meh) Darwinzon (looks very good) Walden (surprisingly efficient. Didn't pitch much last year to really count) Their attitude out of Spring Training was poor. Wasn't a fan of the strategy. They keep talking about how they won last year and refuse to move on. While some guys have played out of their minds this year (Devers, Xander, Vazquez) other guys, while damn good, just feel a bit off (JDM, Mookie, Benny). It's just hard to comprehend that a team who won 108 regular season games and then only lost 3 playoff games could come into the next season with virtually the same team and win 88 games.
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Post by incandenza on Aug 1, 2019 8:55:22 GMT -5
So, what would everyone say is more likely true of the 2019 Boston Red Sox: Lack of talent this year Uncaring/indifferent No sense of urgency in that they just expect to be there in October? I mean, their pitching hasn't been good. Don't know why that has to be some sort of character issue. The ascription of virtue and vice as explanations of athletic performance is such a weird thing. Like, these players are among the best several hundred people in the world at what they do. Roughly zero of them got to that point by not caring or not trying hard.
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Post by rjp313jr on Aug 1, 2019 8:56:32 GMT -5
So, what would everyone say is more likely true of the 2019 Boston Red Sox: Lack of talent this year Uncaring/indifferent No sense of urgency in that they just expect to be there in October? I mean, their pitching hasn't been good. Don't know why that has to be some sort of character issue. The pitching is the clear number 1 issue. However, they’ve played a lot of bad baseball off the mound this year. Was this same thing there last year but not at noticeable? Maybe to a degree but I don’t think you can win 108 games and never lose more than 3 in a row if that’s the case. That “play” in right field last night just hit me hard because you expect more from Mookie, especially considering how important last nights game should have been for them. Maybe the lack of trade deadline action and Porcello sucking sucked the air out of some people.
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Post by rjp313jr on Aug 1, 2019 8:58:48 GMT -5
I mean, their pitching hasn't been good. Don't know why that has to be some sort of character issue. It's just hard to comprehend that a team who won 108 regular season games and then only lost 3 playoff games could come into the next season with virtually the same team and win 88 games. Easy major injuries.
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Post by DesignatedForAssignment on Aug 1, 2019 9:10:07 GMT -5
Brewer has earned himself a demotion.
Maybe he'll get it this week.
BOS, TEAM ERA 2017, 5TH BEST 2018, 5TH 2019, 20TH
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Aug 1, 2019 9:11:26 GMT -5
It's just hard to comprehend that a team who won 108 regular season games and then only lost 3 playoff games could come into the next season with virtually the same team and win 88 games. Easy major injuries. What major injury? Eovaldi? Pearce? Moreland? This has been one of the healthiest teams in baseball.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Aug 1, 2019 9:13:09 GMT -5
I mean, their pitching hasn't been good. Don't know why that has to be some sort of character issue. The ascription of virtue and vice as explanations of athletic performance is such a weird thing. Like, these players are among the best several hundred people in the world at what they do. Roughly zero of them got to that point by not caring or not trying hard. Especially when it comes to the pitching. Like there no way that this group of thirty-something pitchers who all went deep in the postseason last year would be struggling now, except that they all suddenly stopped caring? Worth noting that Eduardo has probably performed the best relative to expectations, and he's the one who pitched the least in the postseason last year.
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Post by rjp313jr on Aug 1, 2019 9:44:44 GMT -5
What major injury? Eovaldi? Pearce? Moreland? This has been one of the healthiest teams in baseball. Yea exactly
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Aug 1, 2019 10:08:58 GMT -5
What major injury? Eovaldi? Pearce? Moreland? This has been one of the healthiest teams in baseball. Yea exactly I wouldn't put any of those players on the same tier of injuries other teams have dealt with: NYY - Stanton, Judge, Severino, Sanchez, Voit/Bird (if we're counting Moreland) TB - Lowe, Snell, Glassnow CLE - Carrasco, Kluber, Clevinger, Salazaar (if we still believe in his potential) OAK - Manaea, Laureano Astros - McCullers (Don't follow Oakland, Houston, or Cleveland enough to know if they had more key guys who were out that later came back)
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Post by manfred on Aug 1, 2019 11:26:32 GMT -5
Ok, maybe it is because it’s a beautiful day, but I am putting negativity behind me.
The Sox are close to a WC. Plenty of time. This is still the juggernaut from last year. Had a sluggish season, but they can turn it on. NO reason they can’t get a WC, then it is a new season.
No more post mortems when the patient is alive.
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Post by huskies15 on Aug 1, 2019 11:37:57 GMT -5
Must win tonight and we have the ace going! Cashdaddy about to make it rain K's
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Post by kjkramer on Aug 1, 2019 12:35:15 GMT -5
I think the tone set in Spring Training is a very serious issue. They were basically shut down in ST and then expected to just flip a switch on opening day. It does not work that way in sports. How many times have you seen a superior team destroying another team at halftime in the NFL or NBA and shut it down mentally at half time thinking "we have this"..... and then the inferior team comes out and makes a run against them and getting back in the game and often winning it? It happens a lot. I fully expect it to be honest. Once you "gear down mentally " it is often hard to mentally ramp back up. You lose the edge..... Rocky had to go back to his roots to get that edge back... to get the Eye of The Tiger Back. This team has to have an event.... something... to try to get it back. Sports is WAY MORE mental than most people can imagine. This team never got that edge to them that you get in Spring Training. I do not think they can. A team shake up and new blood might do it but how now? I also believe the pitching problems are a result of Spring Training and not being ramped up as they are used to and getting that edge. You need a common trigger to flip that switch and ignite the inner fire and get in fight or flight mode..... it is my preworkout shake for me every workout day... I flip a switch mentally that I could never describe. I have to believe that players flip their switch in ST through whatever works for them... many did not have that. I would love to know if Devers, X, Edrod, and Vazquez did anything different than the team. What do they have in common? I bet there is something there because only those 4 really came to play and they are the reason I watch the games every day... every inning still. The rest of them depress me. Let the hungry kids play..... Devers, X, Marco, Chavis, Edrod, Holt, Travis, Vazquez, Darwin, etc. Bring up a few guys... ready or not... as a statement (Dalback, Feltman, Houck, Chatman, etc). Light a fire. Have Big Papi limp in from the hospital and RIP them a new one in the clubhouse... something... that fire is not lit... effort is there... talent is still the best in MLB.... the fire is not there and that is significant.... as a result of ST to me
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Post by rjp313jr on Aug 1, 2019 13:48:40 GMT -5
I wouldn't put any of those players on the same tier of injuries other teams have dealt with: NYY - Stanton, Judge, Severino, Sanchez, Voit/Bird (if we're counting Moreland) TB - Lowe, Snell, Glassnow CLE - Carrasco, Kluber, Clevinger, Salazaar (if we still believe in his potential) OAK - Manaea, Laureano Astros - McCullers (Don't follow Oakland, Houston, or Cleveland enough to know if they had more key guys who were out that later came back) No no no - the only way it’d comprehensible is if there were injuries but there weren’t. This years team is making last year look a fluke
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Aug 1, 2019 14:01:26 GMT -5
I wouldn't put any of those players on the same tier of injuries other teams have dealt with: NYY - Stanton, Judge, Severino, Sanchez, Voit/Bird (if we're counting Moreland) TB - Lowe, Snell, Glassnow CLE - Carrasco, Kluber, Clevinger, Salazaar (if we still believe in his potential) OAK - Manaea, Laureano Astros - McCullers (Don't follow Oakland, Houston, or Cleveland enough to know if they had more key guys who were out that later came back) No no no - the only way it’d comprehensible is if there were injuries but there weren’t. This years team is making last year look a fluke I guess so, but Moreland and Eovaldi is the difference between 88 and 108 and a WS? Not only that, Sale pitched very sparsely the last month or so of last year and they never lost 3 in a row all year.
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 1, 2019 14:06:02 GMT -5
I wouldn't put any of those players on the same tier of injuries other teams have dealt with: NYY - Stanton, Judge, Severino, Sanchez, Voit/Bird (if we're counting Moreland) TB - Lowe, Snell, Glassnow CLE - Carrasco, Kluber, Clevinger, Salazaar (if we still believe in his potential) OAK - Manaea, Laureano Astros - McCullers (Don't follow Oakland, Houston, or Cleveland enough to know if they had more key guys who were out that later came back) No no no - the only way it’d comprehensible is if there were injuries but there weren’t. This years team is making last year look a fluke The fact is, a lot of baseball is a fluke. That's why it's not worth crying over. No team is a true talent 108 win team. But this team also is a lot better than their record. This season seems to be extremely fluky. It's as if any team can win or lose any game by 15 runs no matter who is pitching.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 1, 2019 14:23:34 GMT -5
I wouldn't put any of those players on the same tier of injuries other teams have dealt with: NYY - Stanton, Judge, Severino, Sanchez, Voit/Bird (if we're counting Moreland) TB - Lowe, Snell, Glassnow CLE - Carrasco, Kluber, Clevinger, Salazaar (if we still believe in his potential) OAK - Manaea, Laureano Astros - McCullers (Don't follow Oakland, Houston, or Cleveland enough to know if they had more key guys who were out that later came back) No no no - the only way it’d comprehensible is if there were injuries but there weren’t. This years team is making last year look a fluke That's the thing. I kept waiting for them to come back to earth. It was going perfect, just too perfect - spooky - kind of like the 2007-2008 Patriots season where you say it can't BE perfect. Something, just by the law of averages, has to go wrong - and it was building with the Patriots and then they lost their perfection in the final minute of their season. With the Sox I figured that had to be when Kinsler threw away Game 3 of the World Series. That would be the thing that ended virtual perfection, which was their 2018 season, more perfect than anything I have ever seen for the Sox before. The whole 2018 season, when they were down, you always felt they would come back and win even if they didn't do it all of the time - it felt like they did, but there was this vibe - you can't take your eyes off the TV set because they'll figure out a way to win. It was uncanny, but the team was flawed, and you're like - this is illogical. They have no 3b or catching production (what a difference a year makes there), their CF is hitting less than .200 and 2b is a mess with Nunez polluting it. The pen is short a setup man, too. How in the world is this team winning every freaking day? Surely the law of averages is going to catch up and knock this team down a peg or two. Well, in 2018, the whole year passed by and it didn't happen. Didn't matter that Kinsler threw away Game 3. That would kill a lot of teams, but not the 2018 Red Sox. Nothing could stop them. They were on a mission and it was just meant to be. Well those things that didn't catch up in 2018 have come home to roost in 2019. Those starters worked as rovers without it ever costing them in the post-season. Well, now that overwork look like it caught up to them in 2019. When the Sox fall behind, you know they'll try to catch up but when it's do or die, well let's say a lot of Fenway fans this year have left very disappointed. The rotation is a mess, the bullpen has let a lot of leads slip away, the closer spot is like Russian Roulette. This is the law of averages evening out for 2018. They could very well make the playoffs, but probably won't. At the end of the day, it's quite alright - I'll bank that 2018 Championship happily and after this season ends I think the memories of a disappointing 2019 will fade pretty quickly. Hopefully things find a happy medium between the everything went right 2018 season and the aggravating 2019 season. That would make for a very entertaining 2020 season.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Aug 1, 2019 14:30:17 GMT -5
It's a conundrum we as fans are all dealing with. Yes baseball if flukey. Yes, we had an amazing ride last year. But...we who are here (yes, and spoiled) are or will be long time, life time fans. We love it when our teams win, hate it when they lose. We may say lots of different things many different ways, but losing is no fun, especially when there appears to be no sense to it.
I put the poor team start on Cora and his staff...the construct of the roster on DD and those above. But what we are seeing now - that is on the players. Can they still turn it around, make the post season and advance far? Sure. Will they? The answer to that keeps us all watching, posting and bickering! 😀
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Post by manfred on Aug 1, 2019 15:11:32 GMT -5
It's a conundrum we as fans are all dealing with. Yes baseball if flukey. Yes, we had an amazing ride last year. But...we who are here (yes, and spoiled) are or will be long time, life time fans. We love it when our teams win, hate it when they lose. We may say lots of different things many different ways, but losing is no fun, especially when there appears to be no sense to it. I put the poor team start on Cora and his staff...the construct of the roster on DD and those above. But what we are seeing now - that is on the players. Can they still turn it around, make the post season and advance far? Sure. Will they? The answer to that keeps us all watching, posting and bickering! 😀 I am not sure DD deserves nearly blame Cora and the players most of all deserve. Go back to spring: what would we have DD do? They were set at catcher, ss, 3b, and OF. 2B was still Pedroia’s (should he have been conaidered finished? Maybe. But do you get a legit starting 2B while he’s rehabbing? That’s potentially ugly. 1B — they keep Moreland/Pearce. I don’t recall too much grousing. They resign Eovaldi and looked to have a very strong staff: Sale, Price, Porcello, ERod, Eovaldi, plus Johnson and Wright. Nothing DD could/should have done there. Ok, pen. I think most of us thought then and now they should have signed one of the free agents. I’d have been good with Ottavino or Britton. So... demerit. But.... this team is not an Ottavino away from being better. The season has floundered because of things DD wouldn’t dream of touching. The big sticks got off to bad starts. The starters have been disappointing. Little things have gone wrong. Sure, Nunez. But one might also point to someone like Walden who was really good when not many others were. Those are small potatoes anyway. They dominated last year carrying a few weak positions. Being weak at 2B (before Chavis) wasn’t the difference either. Again: not with benefit of hindsight, but going back to March, what season-saving move could DD have made?
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Post by DesignatedForAssignment on Aug 1, 2019 15:12:26 GMT -5
Someone will post that this is a Must Win or the season is lost.
With that kind of pressure, I don't dare watch.
PS Wright's bruised toe has turned into a long-term disability.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 1, 2019 15:14:43 GMT -5
Someone will post that this is a Must Win or the season is lost. With that kind of pressure, I don't dare watch. PS Wright's bruised toe has turned into a long-term disability. Wright is a liability and a unicorn that Sox fans point to when they are looking for improvements that can be made to the bullpen.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Aug 1, 2019 15:32:44 GMT -5
It's a conundrum we as fans are all dealing with. Yes baseball if flukey. Yes, we had an amazing ride last year. But...we who are here (yes, and spoiled) are or will be long time, life time fans. We love it when our teams win, hate it when they lose. We may say lots of different things many different ways, but losing is no fun, especially when there appears to be no sense to it. I put the poor team start on Cora and his staff...the construct of the roster on DD and those above. But what we are seeing now - that is on the players. Can they still turn it around, make the post season and advance far? Sure. Will they? The answer to that keeps us all watching, posting and bickering! 😀 I am not sure DD deserves nearly blame Cora and the players most of all deserve. Go back to spring: what would we have DD do? They were set at catcher, ss, 3b, and OF. 2B was still Pedroia’s (should he have been conaidered finished? Maybe. But do you get a legit starting 2B while he’s rehabbing? That’s potentially ugly. 1B — they keep Moreland/Pearce. I don’t recall too much grousing. They resign Eovaldi and looked to have a very strong staff: Sale, Price, Porcello, ERod, Eovaldi, plus Johnson and Wright. Nothing DD could/should have done there. Ok, pen. I think most of us thought then and now they should have signed one of the free agents. I’d have been good with Ottavino or Britton. So... demerit. But.... this team is not an Ottavino away from being better. The season has floundered because of things DD wouldn’t dream of touching. The big sticks got off to bad starts. The starters have been disappointing. Little things have gone wrong. Sure, Nunez. But one might also point to someone like Walden who was really good when not many others were. Those are small potatoes anyway. They dominated last year carrying a few weak positions. Being weak at 2B (before Chavis) wasn’t the difference either. Again: not with benefit of hindsight, but going back to March, what season-saving move could DD have made? Yes, the pen Kelly and Kimbrel gap was not adequately dealt with, but of course, hindsight is easy. And DD did come with a reputation for depleting farm systems and weak pens. But this season can't be pinned any one thing. It is just an unfortunate mix of many.
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Post by Guidas on Aug 1, 2019 16:22:33 GMT -5
I think the tone set in Spring Training is a very serious issue. They were basically shut down in ST and then expected to just flip a switch on opening day. It does not work that way in sports. How many times have you seen a superior team destroying another team at halftime in the NFL or NBA and shut it down mentally at half time thinking "we have this"..... and then the inferior team comes out and makes a run against them and getting back in the game and often winning it? It happens a lot. I fully expect it to be honest. Once you "gear down mentally " it is often hard to mentally ramp back up. You lose the edge..... Rocky had to go back to his roots to get that edge back... to get the Eye of The Tiger Back. This team has to have an event.... something... to try to get it back. S ports is WAY MORE mental than most people can imagine. This team never got that edge to them that you get in Spring Training. I do not think they can. A team shake up and new blood might do it but how now? I also believe the pitching problems are a result of Spring Training and not being ramped up as they are used to and getting that edge. You need a common trigger to flip that switch and ignite the inner fire and get in fight or flight mode..... it is my preworkout shake for me every workout day... I flip a switch mentally that I could never describe. I have to believe that players flip their switch in ST through whatever works for them... many did not have that. I would love to know if Devers, X, Edrod, and Vazquez did anything different than the team. What do they have in common? I bet there is something there because only those 4 really came to play and they are the reason I watch the games every day... every inning still. The rest of them depress me. Let the hungry kids play..... Devers, X, Marco, Chavis, Edrod, Holt, Travis, Vazquez, Darwin, etc. Bring up a few guys... ready or not... as a statement (Dalback, Feltman, Houck, Chatman, etc). Light a fire. Have Big Papi limp in from the hospital and RIP them a new one in the clubhouse... something... that fire is not lit... effort is there... talent is still the best in MLB.... the fire is not there and that is significant.... as a result of ST to me I agree with this in particular, and have been railing against their spring training prep since...well, spring training. The Dodgers played as long and their pitchers threw virtually as many pitches. The Astros played only five fewer games and they dove into spring just like everyone else. Athletes, and pitchers in particular, are creatures of habit. To create routines, habits and an atmosphere that was half-assed from the outset creates patterns. Sure, these guys are professionals, but there's a lot of truth to "you practice as you play." These guys did, and for at least their first five weeks of the season, they played as they practiced. I don't see this as a hangover or a coincidence. I see it as a failure of management and leadership by the front office and the coaching staff.
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Post by DesignatedForAssignment on Aug 1, 2019 16:27:06 GMT -5
I am not sure DD deserves nearly blame Cora and the players most of all deserve. Go back to spring: what would we have DD do? . Nothing DD could/should have done there. Ok The season has floundered because of things DD wouldn’t dream of touching. Sure, Nunez. But Again: not with benefit of hindsight, but going back to March, what season-saving move could DD have made? Yes, the pen Kelly and Kimbrel gap was not adequately dealt with, but of course, hindsight is easy. And DD did come with a reputation for depleting farm systems and weak pens. But this season can't be pinned any one thing. It is just an unfortunate mix of many. I miss Dan Duquette. And Kerrigan.
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 1, 2019 16:28:38 GMT -5
Someone will post that this is a Must Win or the season is lost. With that kind of pressure, I don't dare watch. PS Wright's bruised toe has turned into a long-term disability. Wright is a liability and a unicorn that Sox fans point to when they are looking for improvements that can be made to the bullpen. If I were Dave Dombrowski, I'd invest $200 million on the bullpen and get rid of the entire starting rotation and position players just to give you something different to bitch about. It's been 2 full seasons now. I imagine it will never ever be good enough no matter what they do. If they would have given up 6 prospects and $1 million in draft capital yesterday just to get two relievers barely better than Hembree, you'd then bitch about not getting Diaz, Britton, Ottavino, Kimbrel and Kelly.
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Post by Guidas on Aug 1, 2019 18:11:37 GMT -5
Groundhog day - Choi lead-off double.
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