SoxProspects News
|
|
|
|
Legal
Forum Ground Rules
The views expressed by the members of this Forum do not necessarily reflect the views of SoxProspects, LLC.
© 2003-2024 SoxProspects, LLC
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Home | Search | My Profile | Messages | Members | Help |
Welcome Guest. Please Login or Register.
Breaking News - Dombrowski out
|
Post by redsoxfan2 on Sept 9, 2019 0:42:36 GMT -5
i thought this thread was well stated by Dan Who set the fucking budget?!!!!! AND KNEW GOD DAMNED WELL WHAT THE BUDGET WAS GOING TO BE AFTER THEY WON IN 2018?! Well, giving Eovaldi 17 million didn't exactly help the budget. Neither did Steve Pearce's 6.25 million. They were paid for what they did last year, not what they are. They also relied too much on Nunez/ Pedroia to be their 2B and I'd be curious if Dombrowski looked into dumping Price's contract or not. There could have been internal strife with the Chris Sale contract as well. Maybe Henry wasn't actually a fan of it after all? I think the point is fair, there was no creativity. It amazes me how Cashman still has a job in NY and what the turnover rate the Red Sox have had despite having 4 rings since the turn of 2000. Maybe that is the secret ingredient? Fire everyone after a few seasons.
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Sept 9, 2019 0:43:40 GMT -5
Farrell made 100% complete sense. This makes zero sense. Farrell made 1000 stupid decisions. DDo made all of his decisions because he had $0 of budget on the cap. Are you really sure? I found it interesting that Shaughnessy said that Dombrowski was increasingly isolated. What does that mean? Why wasn't it denied? Was he not communicating with Romero and some others like Zach Scott, etc? These are questions that we don't know the answer to, but if he was only talking with LaRussa and Wren, what does that mean in regards to the others in the braintrust? Did he shut out the rest of the organization to talk with his cronies only? This is important because if he was then he was stunting the growth of others in the organization who could have had valuable input he was ignoring. Not saying that the's case here, but that the issue was brought up naturally leads to questions. And again, what if Henry and Werner had different visions of the future than Dombrowski has? They should all be on the same page or they're in trouble. Yeah, DDo should have known that Sale, Price, Porcello, Wright, Johnson, Velzaquez, Eovaldi, and every single every starter should have been worth less than zero like every single other person knew... And he should have spent everything to replace everyone, even in a $100 million rotation.
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Sept 9, 2019 0:44:28 GMT -5
Who set the fucking budget?!!!!! AND KNEW GOD DAMNED WELL WHAT THE BUDGET WAS GOING TO BE AFTER THEY WON IN 2018?! Well, giving Eovaldi 17 million didn't exactly help the budget. Neither did Steve Pearce's 6.25 million. They were paid for what they did last year, not what they are. They also relied too much on Nunez/ Pedroia to be their 2B and I'd be curious if Dombrowski looked into dumping Price's contract or not. There could have been internal strife with the Chris Sale contract as well. Maybe Henry wasn't actually a fan of it after all? I think the point is fair, there was no creativity. It amazes me how Cashman still has a job in NY and what the turnover rate the Red Sox have had despite having 4 rings since the turn of 2000. Maybe that is the secret ingredient? Fire everyone after a few seasons. How many rings did Cashman win? I really would love those who think I'm a Red Sox cheerleader to argue with me now about how I'm a cheerleader despite being so fucking pissed off about this.
|
|
|
Post by redsoxfan2 on Sept 9, 2019 0:49:35 GMT -5
I really really really want John Henry to speak up and say what the fuck Dave Dombrowksi did wrong. He won't do it, and no one will ever know why, so stupid people will continue arguing over stupid crap that can't be decided on. Sorry, I'm a little slow catching up on all of this. I feel like we'll know, like how we knew about Tito through scummy back channels.
|
|
|
Post by marrcus on Sept 9, 2019 0:50:39 GMT -5
"The Sox sure had weird timing with Dombrowski, from beginning to end. @peteabe His hiring was announced at 9:39 p.m. on Aug. 18, 2015. His firing came at 12:07 a.m. on Sept. 9 2019. Pete Abraham @peteabe ·1h The new head of baseball ops, whoever that ends up being, will be the fourth in a span of 10 years for the Red Sox. Pete Abraham @peteabe ·1h The Sox won the World Series 45 weeks ago."
|
|
|
Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 9, 2019 0:53:01 GMT -5
Are you really sure? I found it interesting that Shaughnessy said that Dombrowski was increasingly isolated. What does that mean? Why wasn't it denied? Was he not communicating with Romero and some others like Zach Scott, etc? These are questions that we don't know the answer to, but if he was only talking with LaRussa and Wren, what does that mean in regards to the others in the braintrust? Did he shut out the rest of the organization to talk with his cronies only? This is important because if he was then he was stunting the growth of others in the organization who could have had valuable input he was ignoring. Not saying that the's case here, but that the issue was brought up naturally leads to questions. And again, what if Henry and Werner had different visions of the future than Dombrowski has? They should all be on the same page or they're in trouble. Yeah, DDo should have known that Sale, Price, Porcello, Wright, Johnson, Velzaquez, Eovaldi, and every single every starter should have been worth less than zero like every single other person knew... And he should have spent everything to replace everyone, even in a $100 million rotation. Jim, instead of doubling down on how nobody could have known the starters would all turn to crap with the exception of E-Rod, hear what I'm saying. A hack like CHB claims that Dombro is isolated. Instead of the usual denials, he gets silence. He's actually onto something. We know that LaRussa and Wren are his pals. How about the rest of the organization. What are those relationships like? How is his relationship with Henry and Werner? And I have to somewhat disagree here. It's not shocking that Johnson, Wright, and Velazquez crapped out. Wright has injury issues. As does Johnson in his history and we know that Velazquez is iffy. When things go your way they do great. When they don't, they're trouble. I did figure those three would suck, to be honest. I didn't think that Sale would struggle this much, despite what FIP says - he did give up a lot harder contact than he usually does. Porcello stunk after his Cy Young season so his struggles aren't that shocking. Eovaldi has injury issues. Again they are gambles. Ones you would have taken. Ones I would have taken, too. They didn't work out and it is a results oriented business. But that they fired him now rather than the end of the season makes me wonder if it's more than just the gambles that didn't work out. Which is why I'm telling you that there's more than meets the eye to this and to wait for it to come out - and it's not going to come from John Henry. It's just not. Nobody every tells you why somebody gets fired. That comes later.
|
|
|
Post by incandenza on Sept 9, 2019 0:54:26 GMT -5
Perhaps the fact that they've had 3 different GMs over the last 15 years and each one of them has won a World Series (or two) suggests ownership has an especially good feel for who to bring in at the right time. I assume you "cannot be happier" with John Henry, right? Maybe something to think about between your many posts claiming that ownership look like idiots. I'll be fine with Henry when I hear the reasonable explanation why he fired the guy who just won with almost zero flexibility to change next year's team. Especially when he actually hired the guy to go all out to win a championship which he won. Honestly, you don't need an exotic theory to explain it. Plenty of people have laid out the argument for why, even if DD did a good job at what he was brought here to do, he may not be the right guy for the team's current situation. The occam's razor explanation here is that Henry came to a decision that he didn't want to keep Dombrowski, and he sees no point in keeping dead men walking around the organization. Pretty much his entire history as owner would suggest as much.
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Sept 9, 2019 0:55:03 GMT -5
Yeah, DDo should have known that Sale, Price, Porcello, Wright, Johnson, Velzaquez, Eovaldi, and every single every starter should have been worth less than zero like every single other person knew... And he should have spent everything to replace everyone, even in a $100 million rotation. Jim, instead of doubling down on how nobody could have known the starters would all turn to crap with the exception of E-Rod, hear what I'm saying. A hack like CHB claims that Dombro is isolated. Instead of the usual denials, he gets silence. He's actually onto something. We know that LaRussa and Wren are his pals. How about the rest of the organization. What are those relationships like? How is his relationship with Henry and Werner? And I have to somewhat disagree here. It's not shocking that Johnson, Wright, and Velazquez crapped out. Wright has injury issues. As does Johnson in his history and we know that Velazquez is iffy. When things go your way they do great. When they don't, they're trouble. I did figure those three would suck, to be honest. I didn't think that Sale would struggle this much, despite what FIP says - he did give up a lot harder contact than he usually does. Porcello stunk after his Cy Young season so his struggles aren't that shocking. Eovaldi has injury issues. Again they are gambles. Ones you would have taken. Ones I would have taken, too. They didn't work out and it is a results oriented business. But that they fired him now rather than the end of the season makes me wonder if it's more than just the gambles that didn't work out. Which is why I'm telling you that there's more than meets the eye to this and to wait for it to come out - and it's not going to come from John Henry. It's just not. Nobody every tells you why somebody gets fired. That comes later. I'm sorry, but expecting every single person to be worth less than zero is an absolutely hopeless situation. There is absolutely nothing that can be done about it.
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Sept 9, 2019 0:56:19 GMT -5
I'll be fine with Henry when I hear the reasonable explanation why he fired the guy who just won with almost zero flexibility to change next year's team. Especially when he actually hired the guy to go all out to win a championship which he won. Honestly, you don't need an exotic theory to explain it. Plenty of people have laid out the argument for why, even if DD did a good job at what he was brought here to do, he may not be the right guy for the team's current situation. The occam's razor explanation here is that Henry came to a decision that he didn't want to keep Dombrowski, and he sees no point in keeping dead men walking around the organization. Pretty much his entire history as owner would suggest as much. Firing him NOW is absolute bullshit, sorry. Unless you were criticizing him all year which you never did because you're a reasonable person. I am not against firing Dave Dombrowski I am against blaming him for all the problems with this season, like every other reasonable person.
|
|
|
Post by redsoxfan2 on Sept 9, 2019 0:56:24 GMT -5
Well, giving Eovaldi 17 million didn't exactly help the budget. Neither did Steve Pearce's 6.25 million. They were paid for what they did last year, not what they are. They also relied too much on Nunez/ Pedroia to be their 2B and I'd be curious if Dombrowski looked into dumping Price's contract or not. There could have been internal strife with the Chris Sale contract as well. Maybe Henry wasn't actually a fan of it after all? I think the point is fair, there was no creativity. It amazes me how Cashman still has a job in NY and what the turnover rate the Red Sox have had despite having 4 rings since the turn of 2000. Maybe that is the secret ingredient? Fire everyone after a few seasons. How many rings did Cashman win? I really would love those who think I'm a Red Sox cheerleader to argue with me now about how I'm a cheerleader despite being so fucking pissed off about this. I mean, that's my point. He has 4 since he took over in '98. Of which they won '98, '99, '00, '09. One ring from '01-'19 and he keeps his job. I believe he even cost them a ring this year by not improving the rotation at the deadline.
|
|
|
Post by jerrygarciaparra on Sept 9, 2019 0:58:20 GMT -5
WOW. This is something else. I did not even think of this possibility.
|
|
|
Post by incandenza on Sept 9, 2019 0:58:58 GMT -5
Honestly, you don't need an exotic theory to explain it. Plenty of people have laid out the argument for why, even if DD did a good job at what he was brought here to do, he may not be the right guy for the team's current situation. The occam's razor explanation here is that Henry came to a decision that he didn't want to keep Dombrowski, and he sees no point in keeping dead men walking around the organization. Pretty much his entire history as owner would suggest as much. Firing him NOW is absolute bullshit, sorry. Unless you were criticizing him all year which you never did because you're a reasonable person. So you're basically just complaining about the optics then? If that's the issue, I really have no opinion on it. I couldn't care less about the PR.
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Sept 9, 2019 1:00:16 GMT -5
How many rings did Cashman win? I really would love those who think I'm a Red Sox cheerleader to argue with me now about how I'm a cheerleader despite being so fucking pissed off about this. I mean, that's my point. He has 4 since he took over in '98. Of which they won '98, '99, '00, '09. One ring from '01-'19 and he keeps his job. I believe he even cost them a ring this year by not improving the rotation at the deadline. If I were a Yankee fan, I'd be worse than all the assholes on this site because I'd be used to Steinbrenner. But instead, I'm used to the Red Sox never ever winning no matter what and happy with every single championship.
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Sept 9, 2019 1:01:20 GMT -5
Firing him NOW is absolute bullshit, sorry. Unless you were criticizing him all year which you never did because you're a reasonable person. So you're basically just complaining about the optics then? If that's the issue, I really have no opinion on it. I couldn't care less about the PR. Nothing will change if ownership doesn't admit their mistakes.
|
|
|
Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 9, 2019 1:02:16 GMT -5
Honestly, you don't need an exotic theory to explain it. Plenty of people have laid out the argument for why, even if DD did a good job at what he was brought here to do, he may not be the right guy for the team's current situation. The occam's razor explanation here is that Henry came to a decision that he didn't want to keep Dombrowski, and he sees no point in keeping dead men walking around the organization. Pretty much his entire history as owner would suggest as much. Firing him NOW is absolute bullshit, sorry. Unless you were criticizing him all year which you never did because you're a reasonable person. I am not against firing Dave Dombrowski I am against blaming him for all the problems with this season, like every other reasonable person. Why are you dismissive of the possibility that there could be some internal relationship issues between Dombrowski and others in the organization? Cherington knew that working with Dombrowski would render him useless. There could be situations like that brewing in related baseball ops depts if DD was only listening to LaRussa and Wren. If it was just the fact that the team isn't going anywhere this season why not wait until the end of the season? Why right now?
|
|
|
Post by kevfc89 on Sept 9, 2019 1:02:41 GMT -5
well, fwiw Shaugnessy's out with another article where he reiterates the DD isolated with his cronies narrative, says he wasn't gelling with Sam Kennedy, and even a mention of how Cora was upset with him after he didn't get any fresh relievers up after the 15 inning bullpen game recently where a tired Brasier imploded the next day.
You can read it here.
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Sept 9, 2019 1:03:44 GMT -5
Firing him NOW is absolute bullshit, sorry. Unless you were criticizing him all year which you never did because you're a reasonable person. I am not against firing Dave Dombrowski I am against blaming him for all the problems with this season, like every other reasonable person. Why are you dismissive of the possibility that there could be some internal relationship issues between Dombrowski and others in the organization? Cherington knew that working with Dombrowski would render him useless. There could be situations like that brewing in related baseball ops depts if DD was only listening to LaRussa and Wren. If it was just the fact that the team isn't going anywhere this season why not wait until the end of the season? Why right now? When they announce it, I'll change my views. But they aren't going to. John Henry will protect himself.
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Sept 9, 2019 1:07:28 GMT -5
Basically, Tom Werner runs the Red Sox. Good luck Romero. Werner will fire you too.
|
|
|
Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 9, 2019 1:10:30 GMT -5
Why are you dismissive of the possibility that there could be some internal relationship issues between Dombrowski and others in the organization? Cherington knew that working with Dombrowski would render him useless. There could be situations like that brewing in related baseball ops depts if DD was only listening to LaRussa and Wren. If it was just the fact that the team isn't going anywhere this season why not wait until the end of the season? Why right now? When they announce it, I'll change my views. But they aren't going to. John Henry will protect himself. They're not going to announce it like you think. Sometimes things go on behind the scenes and it isn't all numerical and analytical. Maybe he wasn't getting along with Kennedy. Maybe he did leave Cora short in the pen as alleged. We're just learning that Farrell's handling of the Machado/Orioles brawl was the incident that made it clear that his days with Dombrowski were numbered. Things go on behind the scenes. Relationships in baseball matter more than the freaking numbers sometimes. That's just the way it is. Something was going on that made the Red Sox say, we're not waiting until the end of the season. He has to go now. I mean look at the 2006 Red Sox. Henry made no moves to dump Theo. And he wasn't trying to dump him in 2010 or 2011 either. This is something different. This is most likely a personality conflict within the organization.
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Sept 9, 2019 1:10:45 GMT -5
Shaughnessy is a stupid moron. His article is absolute garbage, like most of them.
|
|
|
Post by redsoxfan2 on Sept 9, 2019 1:12:14 GMT -5
Shaughnessy is a stupid moron. His article is absolute garbage, like most of them. He works for Henry. You don't think he doesn't hear things? He's a jerk with informed opinions.
|
|
|
Post by jerrygarciaparra on Sept 9, 2019 1:14:15 GMT -5
Feel how you feel, but I think you should calm down a bit and wait for what's not said to start showing up as unattributed quotes and then it will come clearer and it will probably be about more than giving Sale the extension, etc. That's what I'm waiting on. I don't expect John Henry to be any more open about why Dombrowski was fired than Dombrowski was on why John Farrell was fired although it wasn't hard to trace the dots after awhile, and I suspect that will be the case here. Henry has 4 championships so I suspect he knows a thing or two about the direction of the club and what his expectations are, etc. I'm willing to wait it out before being outraged. Farrell made 100% complete sense. This makes zero sense. Farrell made 1000 stupid decisions. DDo made most of his decisions because he had $0 of budget on the cap. but he was the one who control of the purse and created that limitation. If the owner says "Don't go over the "cap" then that is what he says. He is the owner, it is his prerogative.
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Sept 9, 2019 1:14:19 GMT -5
When they announce it, I'll change my views. But they aren't going to. John Henry will protect himself. They're not going to announce it like you think. Sometimes things go on behind the scenes and it isn't all numerical and analytical. Maybe he wasn't getting along with Kennedy. Maybe he did leave Cora short in the pen as alleged. We're just learning that Farrell's handling of the Machado/Orioles brawl was the incident that made it clear that his days with Dombrowski were numbered. Things go on behind the scenes. Relationships in baseball matter more than the freaking numbers sometimes. That's just the way it is. Something was going on that made the Red Sox say, we're not waiting until the end of the season. He has to go now. I mean look at the 2006 Red Sox. Henry made no moves to dump Theo. And he wasn't trying to dump him in 2010 or 2011 either. This is something different. This is most likely a personality conflict within the organization. Regardless of anything else you have to complain about, the Red Sox had zero reason to fire Dombrowski. He did everything asked and won a championship. I don't even care about it. They fired him because they are incompetent and for no other reason.
|
|
|
Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 9, 2019 1:14:52 GMT -5
Shaughnessy is a stupid moron. His article is absolute garbage, like most of them. He is, but he is also better sourced within the organization than you are, so I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it. If he tries to analyze baseball ignore him, but if there's friction he probably knows about it because he's probably told about it. We know Steinberg and Lucchino used to feed him info and maybe Lucchino still does. Who knows? But something's going on.
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Sept 9, 2019 1:15:22 GMT -5
Farrell made 100% complete sense. This makes zero sense. Farrell made 1000 stupid decisions. DDo made most of his decisions because he had $0 of budget on the cap. but he was the one who control of the purse and created that limitation. If the owner says "Don't go over the "cap" then that is what he says. He is the owner, it is his prerogative. Great. Owner says go over and do everything to win. He wins. Then he gets fired for doing what he asked.
|
|
|