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Post by chrisfromnc on Nov 25, 2019 12:21:05 GMT -5
The week of Thanksgiving various traditions for many Americans.
I never get through this week without recalling the pure rush of excitement I had in 2003 when I learned that Theo Epstein had convinced Curt Schilling to come play in Boston.
That trade had so much to do with changing the history of the franchise. While it is way down on the list of things I am genuinely thankful for, I am very thankful that the Red Sox have been such a successful franchise this century.
Time had let me forget exactly who the Sox sent to Arizona in the trade. Who remembers the four guys without looking at the link below? (link might not be working...apologies)
www.nbcsports.com/boston/red-sox/trade-curt-schilling-day-after-thanksgiving-15-years-ago-changed-red-sox-history
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Nov 25, 2019 12:36:18 GMT -5
The week of Thanksgiving various traditions for many Americans.
I never get through this week without recalling the pure rush of excitement I had in 2003 when I learned that Theo Epstein had convinced Curt Schilling to come play in Boston.
That trade had so much to do with changing the history of the franchise. While it is way down on the list of things I am genuinely thankful for, I am very thankful that the Red Sox have been such a successful franchise this century.
Time had let me forget exactly who the Sox sent to Arizona in the trade. Who remembers the four guys without looking at the link below? (link might not be working...apologies)
www.nbcsports.com/boston/red-sox/trade-curt-schilling-day-after-thanksgiving-15-years-ago-changed-red-sox-history
I didn't remember but it was Jorge de la Rosa, Casey Fossum, Mike Goss, and Brandon Lyon. LOL, I don't remember Mike Goss either.
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Post by Addam603 on Nov 25, 2019 14:28:48 GMT -5
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Nov 25, 2019 14:52:55 GMT -5
Jorge De La Rosa pitched until 2018, and accumulated roughly 1500 league average innings. Might have been a lot better than that had he not spent most of his career in Colorado.
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Post by jimed14 on Nov 25, 2019 15:16:25 GMT -5
If you signed Iglesias, you'd probably move Xander to 2B. And acquiring a better defensive SS and moving Xander to 2B is definitely something they could do in theory.
If Iglesias is that SS, though, I think they're better off re-signing Holt and platooning him with Chavis. Nor do I see a more effective option in terms of costs.
I understand "move the better guy to SS." But is "move the taller guy to 2b" a good move? Nothing about the way Xander moves suggests 2b to me. By contrast Iglesias' legerdemain would be something to watch. I'd say that it's more of an ego thing. I see no reason to piss Xander off for marginal defensive improvement. It's not like Iglesias is Andrelton Simmons. Do we really want a 70-80 wRC+ SS? I'd rather sign Holt to play 2B.
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Post by James Dunne on Nov 25, 2019 15:18:24 GMT -5
Rockies all time Top-10 in pitching bWAR:
1. Ubaldo Jimenez 18.9 2. Aaron Cook 17.1 3. Jorge De La Rosa 15.2 4. Jhoulys Chacin 14.6 5. Steve Reed 11.8 6. German Marquez 11.7 7. Jon Gray 11.5 8. Kyle Freeland 11.0 9. Pedro Astacio 10.8 10. Jason Jennings 10.4
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Nov 25, 2019 15:28:53 GMT -5
I literally do not remember Steve Reed.
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Post by James Dunne on Nov 25, 2019 15:43:03 GMT -5
He was one of those relivers who kicked around forever, had a few nice seasons though. Two stints with the Rockies. My only real memory of him is that the Red Sox lit him up in that 23-7 game in the 1999 ALDS.
EDIT: He apparently posted a 2.14 ERA in 84 relief innings in 1995 in Coors Field. That might be the greatest season in history.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Nov 25, 2019 16:02:35 GMT -5
I literally do not remember Steve Reed. I think he had a funky delivery, like a submariner. I tend to remember him as a groundball reliever and actually quite effective. He was one of the first and few pitchers that was successful for Colorado. I think they got him in the expansion draft.
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Post by vermontsox1 on Nov 25, 2019 16:27:20 GMT -5
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Nov 25, 2019 21:39:47 GMT -5
Understandable since he had no options but a guy you could easily root for because of all he overcame.
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Post by bluechip on Nov 25, 2019 22:15:13 GMT -5
The week of Thanksgiving various traditions for many Americans.
I never get through this week without recalling the pure rush of excitement I had in 2003 when I learned that Theo Epstein had convinced Curt Schilling to come play in Boston.
That trade had so much to do with changing the history of the franchise. While it is way down on the list of things I am genuinely thankful for, I am very thankful that the Red Sox have been such a successful franchise this century.
Time had let me forget exactly who the Sox sent to Arizona in the trade. Who remembers the four guys without looking at the link below? (link might not be working...apologies)
www.nbcsports.com/boston/red-sox/trade-curt-schilling-day-after-thanksgiving-15-years-ago-changed-red-sox-history
I didn't remember but it was Jorge de la Rosa, Casey Fossum, Mike Goss, and Brandon Lyon. LOL, I don't remember Mike Goss either. I could name everyone but Mike Gross, who I see was out of the Arizona system quickly, but then played independent ball until 2012.
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Post by soxin8 on Nov 26, 2019 16:50:15 GMT -5
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Post by dirtdog on Nov 26, 2019 22:24:28 GMT -5
Patience is truly a virtue. There is no rush. Haste will lead to mistakes. When he starts making moves, they will be baseball moves, not Globe headline moves. A Belichickian approach. it should be an exciting December and January. Cheers! Speaking of patience, remember the hand ringing and the wait to sign JD Martinez two years ago? That turned out OK. Make the best decisions they can each day even if that means doing nothing in November.
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Post by dirtdog on Nov 26, 2019 22:35:32 GMT -5
The Twins are looking at free agent 3B which means they would move Sano to 1B and probably non-tender CJ Cron. Possible cheap 1B who could bounce back. The Red Sox will probably be looking for a LH bat though. Not the worst idea I've heard. If he was available for 162 games it would be a step in the right direction.
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Post by dirtdog on Nov 26, 2019 22:38:43 GMT -5
Kenster: How do you know they don't have a plan? Just because no trades/moves have yet been made? Should they make a move to make a move? If you were for another team, wouldn't you think you had leverage thinking the Sox would want to jump....and try to exploit that? If the Sox made such a move, would you be ready to applaud it or criticize that they should have done better? In Chaim I trust. Strictly a guess but I am thinking he is working on trying move an immovable contract and finding it isnt easy.
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orion09
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Post by orion09 on Nov 26, 2019 23:44:59 GMT -5
I don’t really get this move. Isn’t BJ exactly the kind of pitching depth we need? The only thing I can think of is that they’re trying to sneak him through waivers over the holidays. Even then, why move him off the 40-man roster if he’s likely going to contribute this season? Unless he’s badly hurt?
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Post by swingingbunt on Nov 27, 2019 0:12:26 GMT -5
I don’t really get this move. Isn’t BJ exactly the kind of pitching depth we need? The only thing I can think of is that they’re trying to sneak him through waivers over the holidays. Even then, why move him off the 40-man roster if he’s likely going to contribute this season? Unless he’s badly hurt? He's not really "depth" because he can't be sent down to the minors without his consent anymore. He's either up for good or lost. Best to try and sneak him through before the rule 5 draft so he can be used as depth next season.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Nov 27, 2019 8:08:18 GMT -5
I don’t really get this move. Isn’t BJ exactly the kind of pitching depth we need? I know Johnson has had a long road to the majors, and I'm glad he got his moment to as a real contributor for an amazing team in 2018, but I don't honestly see anything in his profile that makes him more than a replacement-level guy. The statistical track record isn't better than that, and on a skills level, he doesn't have an above average pitch.
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Post by James Dunne on Nov 27, 2019 8:57:16 GMT -5
I might argue that Johnson's curve is above average. Not going to confuse with Clayton Kershaw's but he commands it well and can throw it to righties which is a real advantage for a lefty. At least, that was true in 2018 and in previous viewings, I actually didn't see him a lot this year. Which - the "didn't see him a lot" is kind of the problem. He doesn't/hasn't seen his stuff move forward in shorter stints, which makes him basically a swing-man/5th starter type and the biggest value a swingman/5th starter type can have is availability. Johnson's injuries suck and feel so random rather than chronic, and it's compounded by the fact that his profile kind of necessitates durability.
He might be someone who just needs a clear path to establishing himself as a 5th starter on a bad team and see if he can put things together from there, but he's also 29 next week.
He's probably too many years and reps removed, but picking up a bat and trying to catch on as a two-way 26th man wouldn't be a terrible idea. He really could hit at Florida, .324/.383/.492 in his three years there.
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Post by jimed14 on Nov 27, 2019 9:30:51 GMT -5
Johnson's command isn't good enough to get away with an 87-88 mph fastball. It basically has to be perfect or else it's batting practice. If he could sit 90 and top at 92, he'd be golden.
Also, he started walking way too many people last season, another thing he can't get away with. Up to 11.9%.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Nov 27, 2019 12:00:35 GMT -5
I might argue that Johnson's curve is above average. Not going to confuse with Clayton Kershaw's but he commands it well and can throw it to righties which is a real advantage for a lefty. At least, that was true in 2018 and in previous viewings, I actually didn't see him a lot this year. Which - the "didn't see him a lot" is kind of the problem. He doesn't/hasn't seen his stuff move forward in shorter stints, which makes him basically a swing-man/5th starter type and the biggest value a swingman/5th starter type can have is availability. Johnson's injuries suck and feel so random rather than chronic, and it's compounded by the fact that his profile kind of necessitates durability. He might be someone who just needs a clear path to establishing himself as a 5th starter on a bad team and see if he can put things together from there, but he's also 29 next week. He's probably too many years and reps removed, but picking up a bat and trying to catch on as a two-way 26th man wouldn't be a terrible idea. He really could hit at Florida, .324/.383/.492 in his three years there. That's a funny comp since one of Johnson's problems is that he's four seam, curve, slider, no change. Which is not what you'd ever want from a pitcher, and also exactly what Kershaw does. As far as the curve being above average, maybe, but overall the stuff just isn't really there.
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Post by sibbysisti on Nov 27, 2019 12:25:33 GMT -5
Never a big fan of Johnson. Now with other LH options in Hernandez, Taylor and possibly Osich, there is less of a need for him in the pen.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Nov 27, 2019 12:29:59 GMT -5
With Johnson it's all about his health. If he has health he can be replacement level, useful depth. If he doesn't, he's batting practice and well below average. I used to laugh when it would be thrown around that he was a #3 or something like that.
He's just not. The curve is good, but the fastball is such....I hope he remains in the organization and if he's healthy, he could be worth a few spot starts here and there, but he's pretty useless out of the pen....he might be better off on a second division team desperate for starters or even a team wanting openers, although I think Tampa has much better options than him.
At least for all his troubles, he'll always have that ring...and he certainly contributed to it in 2018. Him and Hector Velazquez and even Steven Wright, too.
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Post by MLBDreams on Nov 27, 2019 13:43:56 GMT -5
I'm not fan of both pitchers, Johnson & Weber, as they need to go somebody's teams. They're soft pitchers and makes every opponent as batting practice for improve their stats. Miami Marlins is perfect place for Brain as his home state, big park, smallest crowd, NL where there's no DH in line up and he likes to hit as #9 in batting order if he earns as spot starter. Hope they claim him.
I'm confident that Chaim will find replacement for #5 starter and/or bullpen (using him as opener).
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