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Radical changes to minor league baseball possible in 2021
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Dec 9, 2020 9:57:23 GMT -5
The Mayor of Trenton said they had talked with the Mets and Red Sox after the Yankees skipped town. The release says they're in advanced talks with a sixth team, but Lowell makes no sense geographically given that the other five teams are all clustered in Pennsylvania and just over the border from PA in NJ or WV. My guess is it's the Staten Island franchise, which makes the most sense geographically for any of the former NYPL teams (save for Aberdeen, which is likely going to be a High A franchise now, and Brooklyn and Hudson Valley, which are both officially remaining affiliated). I guess it could also be Auburn or Batavia though. JJ Cooper reporting that Frederick Keys (formerly High A team for the Orioles) will become the sixth team of the MLB Draft League. Le sigh. There goes one of the spots where I see Salem...
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badfishnbc
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Doing you all a favor and leaving through the gate in right field since 2012.
Posts: 417
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Post by badfishnbc on Dec 9, 2020 10:32:03 GMT -5
Has anyone seen any details/speculation on the Appalachian League rebrand's impact on the Cape League? Given the location/scene/overall quality of life for a 20 year old, I could see more players being interested in playing on the Cape as opposed to middle-of-nowhere Virginia, but the MLB ties are clearly a major draw.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Dec 9, 2020 11:01:38 GMT -5
Has anyone seen any details/speculation on the Appalachian League rebrand's impact on the Cape League? Given the location/scene/overall quality of life for a 20 year old, I could see more players being interested in playing on the Cape as opposed to middle-of-nowhere Virginia, but the MLB ties are clearly a major draw. What I've read is they want the Appy League to be for freshmen and sophomores, the Cape will be for juniors, and the draft league will be for seniors.
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Post by ortiz34 on Dec 9, 2020 11:36:11 GMT -5
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Post by Addam603 on Dec 9, 2020 11:43:52 GMT -5
JJ Cooper reporting that Frederick Keys (formerly High A team for the Orioles) will become the sixth team of the MLB Draft League. Le sigh. There goes one of the spots where I see Salem... There’s always Fredericksburg still. New home of the P-Nats and it has a very nice new stadium.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Dec 9, 2020 11:48:54 GMT -5
Le sigh. There goes one of the spots where I see Salem... There’s always Fredericksburg still. New home of the P-Nats and it has a very nice new stadium. Which is further than Potomac was for me, but fair point. Will depend how the leagues shake out, but I probably won't have anywhere to see Greenville anymore either. Not that I loved going to Hagerstown.
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Post by vermontsox1 on Dec 9, 2020 12:02:28 GMT -5
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Post by Addam603 on Dec 9, 2020 12:17:03 GMT -5
There’s always Fredericksburg still. New home of the P-Nats and it has a very nice new stadium. Which is further than Potomac was for me, but fair point. Will depend how the leagues shake out, but I probably won't have anywhere to see Greenville anymore either. Not that I loved going to Hagerstown. Wow, actually Fredericksburg will be low-A. So Greenville will be coming up if they’re in the same division. But I don’t know how that division will look yet.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Dec 9, 2020 12:25:36 GMT -5
But Salem and Greenville flipped. That won't get confusing at all.
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Post by Addam603 on Dec 9, 2020 12:32:28 GMT -5
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on Dec 9, 2020 12:41:33 GMT -5
Silverman talks about how the Sox' 30% ownership of Salem was part of the pressure to keep them. I wonder if they think they can get out of that within the next year and return Lowell as Low A, hence the designation switch.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Dec 9, 2020 12:44:51 GMT -5
I'm so, so skeptical of that. How would that even work? You're going to remove some other team's affiliation one year later?
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Post by vermontsox1 on Dec 9, 2020 13:00:09 GMT -5
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Post by vermontsox1 on Dec 9, 2020 13:55:22 GMT -5
I'm so, so skeptical of that. How would that even work? You're going to remove some other team's affiliation one year later? I too am very skeptical. Not only would you have to remove a team from affiliation, but Lowell would very far geographically from the rest of the teams in high A and low A. Looking at the list of teams, Hudson Valley, Brooklyn, Jersey Shore, and Wilmington would be the closest teams to Lowell and those teams are still hours away.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Dec 9, 2020 14:07:29 GMT -5
I'm so, so skeptical of that. How would that even work? You're going to remove some other team's affiliation one year later? I too am very skeptical. Not only would you have to remove a team from affiliation, but Lowell would very far geographically from the rest of the teams in high A and low A. Looking at the list of teams, Hudson Valley, Brooklyn, Jersey Shore, and Wilmington would be the closest teams to Lowell and those teams are still hours away. Yeah those teams and Aberdeen are apparently going to be, along with one other club, the new Mid-Atlantic League. The Spinners would spend a FORTUNE on travel under the new regulations for MLB. I know one affiliate's travel costs are going to double or even triple now.
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Post by vermontsox1 on Dec 9, 2020 18:51:23 GMT -5
I too am very skeptical. Not only would you have to remove a team from affiliation, but Lowell would very far geographically from the rest of the teams in high A and low A. Looking at the list of teams, Hudson Valley, Brooklyn, Jersey Shore, and Wilmington would be the closest teams to Lowell and those teams are still hours away. Yeah those teams and Aberdeen are apparently going to be, along with one other club, the new Mid-Atlantic League. The Spinners would spend a FORTUNE on travel under the new regulations for MLB. I know one affiliate's travel costs are going to double or even triple now. JJ Cooper already has an article out talking about the logistical nightmare of the Mid-Atlantic League, which would be even worse with Lowell added in: www.baseballamerica.com/stories/new-mid-atlantic-league-will-face-awkward-scheduling-dilemmas/
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Post by aboynamedkimandrew on Dec 9, 2020 19:48:54 GMT -5
The NY-P franchise that really got screwed was Tri-City (Albany area). They've been consistently 2nd or 3rd in attendance (either just ahead of or behind Hudson Valley, which less than 1 1/2 hours away). The stadium is also much nicer than Hudson Valley's, which is a bunch of bleachers off I-84 next to the Fishkill correctional facilities.
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Post by foreverred9 on Dec 9, 2020 19:57:07 GMT -5
Yeah those teams and Aberdeen are apparently going to be, along with one other club, the new Mid-Atlantic League. The Spinners would spend a FORTUNE on travel under the new regulations for MLB. I know one affiliate's travel costs are going to double or even triple now. JJ Cooper already has an article out talking about the logistical nightmare of the Mid-Atlantic League, which would be even worse with Lowell added in: www.baseballamerica.com/stories/new-mid-atlantic-league-will-face-awkward-scheduling-dilemmas/I feel like I'm missing something, the travel among those 5 teams is pretty minimal. Is the logistical nightmare finding a 6th team that's near that cluster? One option to avoid removing a team from affiliation would be the Sox move the Salem franchise back to the Boston area and put Greenville back in Low A. If not Lowell, I wonder if Rhode Island would be open to that franchise. RI would be easier travel for that league. This feels like a PR play to kick the can with Lowell to a later date. There's still the issue of UMass Lowell that's doesn't have a clear resolution. Plus, if they were really serious about joining the Mid Atlantic league in 2022, why swap Greenville and Salem?
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Post by vermontsox1 on Dec 9, 2020 20:09:41 GMT -5
I feel like I'm missing something, the travel among those 5 teams is pretty minimal. Is the logistical nightmare finding a 6th team that's near that cluster? I think the idea is that the Mid-Atlantic League will have 5 teams in a northern division and 7 teams in a southern division. There will always need to be a team from those divisions playing each other, which creates problems when it's Rome (GA) vs. Hudson Valley for example. Obviously if they can get a 6th team (Lowell?) it makes it easier, but again, Lowell really isn't THAT close to the other teams in the northern division.
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Post by adiospaydro2005 on Dec 9, 2020 20:37:28 GMT -5
Sad day for Lowell and local baseball fans. I enjoyed seeing Red Sox prospects play there, including Papelbon, Ellsbury, Mookie, Benintendi, Cecchini, etc.
The stadium was great to bring kids, get them an autograph and enjoy the game. .
Portland Is too far for a day trip and I have no interest driving to Worcester to see AAA play.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Dec 9, 2020 20:42:58 GMT -5
I feel like I'm missing something, the travel among those 5 teams is pretty minimal. Is the logistical nightmare finding a 6th team that's near that cluster? One option to avoid removing a team from affiliation would be the Sox move the Salem franchise back to the Boston area and put Greenville back in Low A. If not Lowell, I wonder if Rhode Island would be open to that franchise. RI would be easier travel for that league. This feels like a PR play to kick the can with Lowell to a later date. There's still the issue of UMass Lowell that's doesn't have a clear resolution. Plus, if they were really serious about joining the Mid Atlantic league in 2022, why swap Greenville and Salem? Salem's lease apparently runs through 2025. ballparkbiz.wordpress.com/2015/04/16/salem-red-sox-sign-10-year-lease-extension/A date to keep in mind. (Pure speculation on my part btw, not based on inside information.)
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Post by foreverred9 on Dec 9, 2020 21:10:08 GMT -5
I think the idea is that the Mid-Atlantic League will have 5 teams in a northern division and 7 teams in a southern division. There will always need to be a team from those divisions playing each other, which creates problems when it's Rome (GA) vs. Hudson Valley for example. Obviously if they can get a 6th team (Lowell?) it makes it easier, but again, Lowell really isn't THAT close to the other teams in the northern division. Got it, I was going off of this link that has there being 4 high-A leagues instead of 3. Perhaps they decided to combine the eastern coast leagues? ballparkdigest.com/200905261902/minor-league-baseball/news/affiliate-dance-2012
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Post by vermontsox1 on Dec 9, 2020 21:42:19 GMT -5
I think the idea is that the Mid-Atlantic League will have 5 teams in a northern division and 7 teams in a southern division. There will always need to be a team from those divisions playing each other, which creates problems when it's Rome (GA) vs. Hudson Valley for example. Obviously if they can get a 6th team (Lowell?) it makes it easier, but again, Lowell really isn't THAT close to the other teams in the northern division. Got it, I was going off of this link that has there being 4 high-A leagues instead of 3. Perhaps they decided to combine the eastern coast leagues? ballparkdigest.com/200905261902/minor-league-baseball/news/affiliate-dance-2012Right. According to JJ Cooper, the Carolina League will be folded into the Mid-Atlantic League. It doesn't really make sense logistically TBH.
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dcb26
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Post by dcb26 on Dec 10, 2020 0:40:02 GMT -5
My two favorite places to see a game - Pawtucket and Lowell - gone in the same offseason. Fenway's great and all, but even while living in Boston it's been so much easier (and honestly more pleasant, never mind cheaper) to catch a game at either of those stadiums. Between this and some of the recent rule changes, the Sox and MLB couldn't be any more clear that I'm not wanted as a fan if they screamed it into my ear with a megaphone.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Dec 10, 2020 3:41:49 GMT -5
BA has the list of orphaned clubs. I'll add the rank of the ballpark's seating capacity, plus attendance per game in 2018-9, out of the 160 clubs. I've bolded the clubs that got shafted most obviously.
Triple-A: Fresno Grizzlies (16 / 26, PCL) if they don't join the California League
Double-A: Jackson Generals (97 / 134, Southern), Trenton Thunder (86 / 39, Eastern)
High Class A: Charlotte Stone Crabs (68 / 135, Florida State), Florida Fire Frogs (TBD / 159, Florida State), Frederick Keys (105 / 62, Carolina), Lancaster JetHawks (73 / 115) if it's replaced by Fresno (California)
Low Class A: Burlington Bees (146 / 152, Midwest), Clinton LumberKings (116 / 128, Midwest), Hagerstown Suns (123 / 148, South Atlantic), Lexington Legends (70 / 63, South Atlantic), Kane County Cougars (14 / 34, Midwest), West Virginia Power (91 / 130, South Atlantic)
hShort-season: Salem-Keizer Volcanoes (131 / 121, Northwest) and 7 clubs from the NYP: Auburn Doubledays (149 / 141), Batavia Muckdogs (150 / 151), Norwich / Connecticut Tigers Sea Unicorns, who appear to jave never played a game under that name (89 / 124), Lowell Spinners (122 / 88), Staten Island Yankees (63 / 124), Tri-City Valley Cats (125 / 66), and Vermont Lake Monsters (129 / 117).
The Thunder ranked 5th in attendance in the EL, the Keys ranked 2nd in the Car, the Legends 5th in the SAL, and the Cougars 4th in the MWL. There are clubs that survived who drew way less in each league. It's possible that geography figured into their omission, but the Cougars got left without an affiliate in the shuffling of leagues and levels, and that, and teams wanting or needing to keep affiliates for various reasons, may be the more common reason for a shaft. You may well see those teams returning to affiliated ball at some point.
The Legends have been talking to MLB and hope to announce their 2021 plans within a week or so. They already have a commitment from ... Henry Owens, which suggests they're joining an independent ("Partner") league.
Given that they turned the Appalachian league into a summer wood-bat league, and the Pioneer league (plus Boise from the Northwest) into a Partner league, it's surprising that they didn't do one or the other with the NYP league plus Trenton, probably omitting Auburn and Batavia (both for attendance and distance; they're both out near Buffalo).
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