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2019-20 Boston Celtics Season
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Post by rjp313jr on Sept 10, 2020 7:13:02 GMT -5
I was very frustrated watching Tatum last night but upon reflection it really was an encouraging game for us as fans with regards to him. He struggled scoring for most of regulation. But he didn’t force too much (he did take a few lousy shots but didn’t fall into a trap of stacking possessions). He also deferred to Brown and his play making was phenomenal at times. Some of his turnovers were just sloppy and killer. But the guy is 22 still. I think we just expect him and Jaylen to be perfect and the fact we think that way shows how good they are. They will learn from this.
How many scorers like Tatum are willing to let someone else carry the load? And not just willing to but actively work to help them. Then on top of that also play defense and rebound.
I feel weird about this team today. Annoyed they missed and opportunity and I think game 7 is a coin flip and maybe slightly in Toronto’s favor. At the same time, there was so much to like about Jason and Jaylen and how they played at such a young age being the 1 and 1a that the future is exciting. I mean seriously, we have Kawhi and PG only better than they were at these respective ages.
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Post by blucore on Sept 10, 2020 8:31:53 GMT -5
My takeaways after last night:
Brown's performance was overrated and Tatum's was underrated. Brown took 30 shots to get his 31 points and the eye test that he was worse after the first half. Tatum finished at 43% shooting on the game, which is fine. The turnovers are the killers. He has been able to get away with being long to protect the ball in his post possessions, but he's having trouble with Toronto's active hands.
Kemba is the key piece here. He NEEDS to score. If Smart didn't have a good shooting game, we would have had no chance. 5 points is not enough for this team to win in this stage of the playoffs.
Siakam blows. He can't make his own shot when it matters. It felt like he went like 1/6 in the OTs. He has no counter moves on the post so once you get someone on him that can move their feet with him and keep arms up, he doesn't have the touch to make tough finishes. How is he an all-star starter? OG has been a better player for them in this series.
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Post by rjp313jr on Sept 10, 2020 8:58:43 GMT -5
Siakum doesn’t blow but when a team focuses their D on him he’s not that guy. He’s miscast as a number 1 come playoff time.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 10, 2020 11:51:33 GMT -5
Say what you want about Tatum and his 6 TO, yet he's not the one who I don't think is ready. Two out of the last three games, when it's close Kemba Walker takes 20 shots total in over 45 minutes a game. I don't mind a guy like Brown just firing away over Kemba not shooting. That last shot and missed call would have changed things, yet maybe the one grizzled veteran I wasn't worried about isn't ready. These close games with series on the line are new to him. The pressure to win in the playoffs against a grizzled veteran team is new to him. Tatum, Brown and Smart already went to game seven against LeBron two years ago in the ECF, not Kemba though. You see it with them, they might miss shots, get TO, yet they are game to do it. Kemba needs to shoot the ball, he can make crazy hard shots and yes this is now 2/3 games where you missed or could have used Haywards offense and creating. Powell have them a big boost with fresh legs. I don’t agree with the Kemba take. He could have been better, but to say he’s not ready is a leap. Kemba was better down the stretch than Jaylen - when the pressure is the highest. I’m not even a little worried about the ice running in Kemba’s veins.. would have loved to see Marcus pass him that ball at the end. Did we watch the same game? Walker went 0-3 in the 4th, 1-2 in first OT and zero attempts in 2nd OT. He went 1-5 for two points in the last 22 minutes Brown in the 4th was 2-6, yet 2-5 from deep, so that's a very good effective field goal percentage. 1-2 in first OT, 2-2 from line and 0-2 in second OT. Had 10 points in last 22 minutes along with 9 rebounds 2 assists, 1 steal and zero turnovers. Walker kept turning down good looks and this is now the 2nd time in three games. If you think that's good down the stretch I don't know what to tell you. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Sept 10, 2020 14:00:41 GMT -5
I don’t agree with the Kemba take. He could have been better, but to say he’s not ready is a leap. Kemba was better down the stretch than Jaylen - when the pressure is the highest. I’m not even a little worried about the ice running in Kemba’s veins.. would have loved to see Marcus pass him that ball at the end. Did we watch the same game? Walker went 0-3 in the 4th, 1-2 in first OT and zero attempts in 2nd OT. He went 1-5 for two points in the last 22 minutes Brown in the 4th was 2-6, yet 2-5 from deep, so that's a very good effective field goal percentage. 1-2 in first OT, 2-2 from line and 0-2 in second OT. Had 10 points in last 22 minutes along with 9 rebounds 2 assists, 1 steal and zero turnovers. Walker kept turning down good looks and this is now the 2nd time in three games. If you think that's good down the stretch I don't know what to tell you. I’d have to go back and watch it - i didn’t see him turning down good looks - they were smothering him and Tatum saw doubles every time he touched the ball. They let Jaylen do whatever he wanted by design and in the first half he didn’t - second half and OT he didn’t and the team needed him to. He had 2 layups in OT that could have sealed the game and he just had the ball taken from him. What this really comes down to tho is we need Hayward. More offense - doesn’t allow doubles - gives more options and fresher legs. We needed all that last night and didn’t have it. |
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Post by philarhody on Sept 10, 2020 14:39:29 GMT -5
However this series turns out, this is a major win for the Celtics.
If they lose game 7, this is the garden variety adversity that nearly every young talent faces early on in the NBA. Remember when LeBron just wasn’t a winner? They said the same about Jordan. Kobe and Shaq? Couldn’t advance past the Jazz, then the Spurs.
There is only one example that I can recall of a 22 year old leading a team to an NBA championship (Shaq led the Lakers to their first , not Kobe). That was Duncan in the lockout shortened weirdo season of 1999 where he beat the Knicks. This is that sort of season, which has made the Celtics so intriguing as a bubble contender.
The Raptors don’t beat themselves. They understand every moment. Did you see their bench during the two blowouts in this series? Loose, laughing. Opportunity for rest. Sure you’re getting lit up but it’s just a much needed opportunity to rest Lowry and VanVleet.
I cannot recall a single unnecessary forced shot by Toronto in this series. I just think they are so savvy and are squeezing out every ounce of productivity they’ve got.
If Tatum signs an extension this summer, this is just the beginning for these Celtics.
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Post by philarhody on Sept 10, 2020 14:52:24 GMT -5
Say what you want about Tatum and his 6 TO, yet he's not the one who I don't think is ready. Two out of the last three games, when it's close Kemba Walker takes 20 shots total in over 45 minutes a game. I don't mind a guy like Brown just firing away over Kemba not shooting. That last shot and missed call would have changed things, yet maybe the one grizzled veteran I wasn't worried about isn't ready. These close games with series on the line are new to him. The pressure to win in the playoffs against a grizzled veteran team is new to him. Tatum, Brown and Smart already went to game seven against LeBron two years ago in the ECF, not Kemba though. You see it with them, they might miss shots, get TO, yet they are game to do it. Kemba needs to shoot the ball, he can make crazy hard shots and yes this is now 2/3 games where you missed or could have used Haywards offense and creating. Powell have them a big boost with fresh legs. Yeah I just don’t think that what Tatum is theoretically ready for and what Kemba is ready for are in the same stratosphere. I honestly think Tatum has the potential to be one of the greatest 10-15 to ever do it. He’s a better player than Kawhi at the same age and seems to be improving at incredible rates. I don’t see Kemba getting a whole lot better than what he already is. He’s a nice piece, but will almost certainly never be a top 50 player of all time. I agreed with Jackson last night when he stated that the Celtics were getting their most unforced looks when the ball was in Kemba’s hands. But Kemba will never be a great shooter. He’s good, but not an elite shot maker. Do you see the difference in Tatum being ready to become a great one and Kemba being who he is in his age 30 season? |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 10, 2020 15:07:31 GMT -5
Say what you want about Tatum and his 6 TO, yet he's not the one who I don't think is ready. Two out of the last three games, when it's close Kemba Walker takes 20 shots total in over 45 minutes a game. I don't mind a guy like Brown just firing away over Kemba not shooting. That last shot and missed call would have changed things, yet maybe the one grizzled veteran I wasn't worried about isn't ready. These close games with series on the line are new to him. The pressure to win in the playoffs against a grizzled veteran team is new to him. Tatum, Brown and Smart already went to game seven against LeBron two years ago in the ECF, not Kemba though. You see it with them, they might miss shots, get TO, yet they are game to do it. Kemba needs to shoot the ball, he can make crazy hard shots and yes this is now 2/3 games where you missed or could have used Haywards offense and creating. Powell have them a big boost with fresh legs. Yeah I just don’t think that what Tatum is theoretically ready for and what Kemba is ready for are in the same stratosphere. I honestly think Tatum has the potential to be one of the greatest 10-15 to ever do it. He’s a better player than Kawhi at the same age and seems to be improving at incredible rates. I don’t see Kemba getting a whole lot better than what he already is. He’s a nice piece, but will almost certainly never be a top 50 player of all time. I agreed with Jackson last night when he stated that the Celtics were getting their most unforced looks when the ball was in Kemba’s hands. But Kemba will never be a great shooter. He’s good, but not an elite shot maker. Do you see the difference in Tatum being ready to become a great one and Kemba being who he is in his age 30 season? I agree on Tatum. Yet for me Walker is an elite shot maker. He can take and make crazy shots at a very good percentage. Yeah not good enough to lead a team to a title guy, yet as a #2 with a very strong cast not many teams have a better #2. Hence why I want him shooting. He's one of those guys I don't mind creating three point shots, he's that good at it. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 10, 2020 15:14:28 GMT -5
Did we watch the same game? Walker went 0-3 in the 4th, 1-2 in first OT and zero attempts in 2nd OT. He went 1-5 for two points in the last 22 minutes Brown in the 4th was 2-6, yet 2-5 from deep, so that's a very good effective field goal percentage. 1-2 in first OT, 2-2 from line and 0-2 in second OT. Had 10 points in last 22 minutes along with 9 rebounds 2 assists, 1 steal and zero turnovers. Walker kept turning down good looks and this is now the 2nd time in three games. If you think that's good down the stretch I don't know what to tell you. I’d have to go back and watch it - i didn’t see him turning down good looks - they were smothering him and Tatum saw doubles every time he touched the ball. They let Jaylen do whatever he wanted by design and in the first half he didn’t - second half and OT he didn’t and the team needed him to. He had 2 layups in OT that could have sealed the game and he just had the ball taken from him. What this really comes down to tho is we need Hayward. More offense - doesn’t allow doubles - gives more options and fresher legs. We needed all that last night and didn’t have it. Define good looks? For me there's a difference in that with Tatum and Walker, compared to Brown and Smart. I want them taking shots if they have them and they both turned them down, hence why Smart and Brown got so many shots. Like I want those guys creating, but they need to balance that with creating their own offense and getting their own shots. Tatum did that, Walker didn't. I don't want an Irving, but he was 100% the other way. |
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Post by Don Caballero on Sept 10, 2020 20:25:51 GMT -5
However this series turns out, this is a major win for the Celtics. I agree with everything you said in this post, I just want to single out that it will be a major win if they play game 7 like they played the rest of the series. I think they could have executed a bit better and maybe would have advanced already, but the Raptors are incredible. Boston need to understand that "it's not you, it's me" thing and I want to see game 7 being played with the same beautiful movement on offense and suffocating defense. I don't want them deviating from what I consider ideal ball under Stevens. Give me one more well played game like that I can live with whatever result no matter what. |
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Post by blucore on Sept 11, 2020 11:49:27 GMT -5
If the Celtics end up losing the series, I count that as a fail. The narrative of the season becomes the team wilting under pressure to a savvy veteran squad and going 1 for 5 in close games. The OG shot becomes the moment that the team broke down mentally under adversity. Kemba now has questions on if he can perform for a winning team in the playoffs. Hayward finishes the year hurt again.
The road in the East is only getting harder. KD and Kyrie are back next year for the Nets and Giannis could get traded to Toronto or Miami. This year with no home/road is a big opportunity. I love the team construction, but this is probably the best road to the finals for the near future. Also, a win in game 7 against the reigning champs is a big feather in the cap for the young guns. Massive game tonight.
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Post by rjp313jr on Sept 11, 2020 12:21:39 GMT -5
If the Celtics end up losing the series, I count that as a fail. The narrative of the season becomes the team wilting under pressure to a savvy veteran squad and going 1 for 5 in close games. The OG shot becomes the moment that the team broke down mentally under adversity. Kemba now has questions on if he can perform for a winning team in the playoffs. Hayward finishes the year hurt again. The road in the East is only getting harder. KD and Kyrie are back next year for the Nets and Giannis could get traded to Toronto or Miami. This year with no home/road is a big opportunity. I love the team construction, but this is probably the best road to the finals for the near future. Also, a win in game 7 against the reigning champs is a big feather in the cap for the young guns. Massive game tonight. Some of this I agree with such as the last paragraph, but I disagree with most of your first paragraph. I can see why it would be a fail so that and Hayward ending the year hurt is fine by me. The stuff in the middle of that is suspect. Since the OG shot they won a crucial game 5 in convincing fashion and went to double OT (on a game they should have won in regulation of the refs didn’t blow the Kemba call like the NBA has admitted). That’s hardly breaking down mentally after the OG 3. I also feel questioning Kemba’s ability to perform in big moments is laughable at this point. |
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Post by blucore on Sept 11, 2020 13:43:47 GMT -5
If the Celtics end up losing the series, I count that as a fail. The narrative of the season becomes the team wilting under pressure to a savvy veteran squad and going 1 for 5 in close games. The OG shot becomes the moment that the team broke down mentally under adversity. Kemba now has questions on if he can perform for a winning team in the playoffs. Hayward finishes the year hurt again. The road in the East is only getting harder. KD and Kyrie are back next year for the Nets and Giannis could get traded to Toronto or Miami. This year with no home/road is a big opportunity. I love the team construction, but this is probably the best road to the finals for the near future. Also, a win in game 7 against the reigning champs is a big feather in the cap for the young guns. Massive game tonight. Some of this I agree with such as the last paragraph, but I disagree with most of your first paragraph. I can see why it would be a fail so that and Hayward ending the year hurt is fine by me. The stuff in the middle of that is suspect. Since the OG shot they won a crucial game 5 in convincing fashion and went to double OT (on a game they should have won in regulation of the refs didn’t blow the Kemba call like the NBA has admitted). That’s hardly breaking down mentally after the OG 3. I also feel questioning Kemba’s ability to perform in big moments is laughable at this point. Never let the actual games get in the way of a good narrative  . I don't believe that they're mentally done or Kemba can't perform. The fairest assessment is that it is two very good teams in a tough series, which could be won by either. But I do think that if Kemba has a bad game 7, it becomes easier to forget the dagger in game 2 and say "Well he shot 25% in 2 potential closeout games. Not a clutch player when it **really** matters." |
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Post by Don Caballero on Sept 11, 2020 14:30:07 GMT -5
I love the team construction, but this is probably the best road to the finals for the near future. Could not disagree more. Tatum and Brown are in their VERY early 20's and make no mistake, it's their team. This is only the beginning. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 11, 2020 14:53:25 GMT -5
Walker before joining us was 3-8 in the playoffs. In two of those wins he was horrible shooting 21% and 22%. In his only game seven in 2016 playoffs against the Heat he was 3-16 18.8% and they lost by 33. I don't care about the wins and losses because that wasn't a great team. Yet he has a track record of not having good games in the playoffs when the pressure is on. Now let's hope it's just some small sample size crap and it's not real. Yet I don't get the there's nothing there. He has a history of not doing well if defenses focus on him. Crap you don't see in the regular season.
A good game seven and all that crap will mean nothing. Yet right now I do fear that I might have overrated him. Paul Pierce could will crappy teams to wins, heck Thomas did the same even when the defense was 100% focused on them. Kemba has had two bad games and one very good one. I'm a homer so I'll predict a big game seven. Yet I'm worried and forgot he's not battled tested in the Playoffs.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 11, 2020 14:58:12 GMT -5
I love the team construction, but this is probably the best road to the finals for the near future. Could not disagree more. Tatum and Brown are in their VERY early 20's and make no mistake, it's their team. This is only the beginning. No team has more young talent and to just piss off the league we have three more draft picks. 2018 playoff run started the Golden Stretch of Celtics Basketball for my generation and YES it's just the beginning. |
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wcp3
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Posts: 3,860
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Post by wcp3 on Sept 11, 2020 18:30:46 GMT -5
Walker before joining us was 3-8 in the playoffs. In two of those wins he was horrible shooting 21% and 22%. In his only game seven in 2016 playoffs against the Heat he was 3-16 18.8% and they lost by 33. I don't care about the wins and losses because that wasn't a great team. Yet he has a track record of not having good games in the playoffs when the pressure is on. Now let's hope it's just some small sample size crap and it's not real. Yet I don't get the there's nothing there. He has a history of not doing well if defenses focus on him. Crap you don't see in the regular season. A good game seven and all that crap will mean nothing. Yet right now I do fear that I might have overrated him. Paul Pierce could will crappy teams to wins, heck Thomas did the same even when the defense was 100% focused on them. Kemba has had two bad games and one very good one. I'm a homer so I'll predict a big game seven. Yet I'm worried and forgot he's not battled tested in the Playoffs. You don’t really need to worry about Kemba - he’s not shy of big moments. But he’s not on Pierce’s level so I wouldn’t expect him to be able to carry teams the same way. |
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wcp3
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Posts: 3,860
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Post by wcp3 on Sept 11, 2020 18:32:16 GMT -5
If the Celtics end up losing the series, I count that as a fail. The narrative of the season becomes the team wilting under pressure to a savvy veteran squad and going 1 for 5 in close games. The OG shot becomes the moment that the team broke down mentally under adversity. Kemba now has questions on if he can perform for a winning team in the playoffs. Hayward finishes the year hurt again. The road in the East is only getting harder. KD and Kyrie are back next year for the Nets and Giannis could get traded to Toronto or Miami. This year with no home/road is a big opportunity. I love the team construction, but this is probably the best road to the finals for the near future. Also, a win in game 7 against the reigning champs is a big feather in the cap for the young guns. Massive game tonight. Some of this I agree with such as the last paragraph, but I disagree with most of your first paragraph. I can see why it would be a fail so that and Hayward ending the year hurt is fine by me. The stuff in the middle of that is suspect. Since the OG shot they won a crucial game 5 in convincing fashion and went to double OT (on a game they should have won in regulation of the refs didn’t blow the Kemba call like the NBA has admitted). That’s hardly breaking down mentally after the OG 3. I also feel questioning Kemba’s ability to perform in big moments is laughable at this point. If you lose a series after being up 2 despite having superior talent, it’s hard not to call it a failure. They got screwed by the officials in game 6. It was an all-timer, which is saying a lot for NBA refs. But they had the game in hand in OT and failed to step up defensively on so many occasions. |
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Post by Don Caballero on Sept 11, 2020 19:58:00 GMT -5
Going in guys, won't be around during the game because I'll be too tense. Whatever happens, it was a joy to share another season with all of you. See you on the other side of game 7!
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Post by tizzle on Sept 11, 2020 20:34:35 GMT -5
A 3 point shot went in? Is that legal?
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wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,860
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Post by wcp3 on Sept 11, 2020 20:42:28 GMT -5
Talk about undoing a great start in a matter of minutes.
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wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,860
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Post by wcp3 on Sept 11, 2020 20:47:26 GMT -5
Just an embarrassing effort here. This team is beyond soft.
How is that Brad benches Williams so quickly? Toronto started scoring at will after that.
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Post by rjp313jr on Sept 11, 2020 21:04:08 GMT -5
Welp i wish I didn’t wake up for this game - season done. Let down
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Post by tizzle on Sept 11, 2020 21:05:37 GMT -5
They played really well for about 3 minutes. Apart from that, they don't look like they belong in this game so far.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 11, 2020 21:11:55 GMT -5
Anyone seen Kemba Walker he's MIA when he's not playing so-so D.
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