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Get under the cap trade proposals
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Post by dmaineah on Nov 6, 2019 6:19:35 GMT -5
Let’s hear your “Get under the cap trade proposals”
Betts & Price To Cincinnati for Aristides Aquino, Jose Peraza & Tony Santillan
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Post by cheers on Nov 6, 2019 8:41:32 GMT -5
Sox trade Price, Sale, and Eovaldi to the Braves for Acuna, Albies, and Soroka. Braves have to toss in a couple of near-MLB ready pitching prospects. Sox will throw in Sam Travis and ummm laundry soap. The good kind.
Do I win?
Any trade proposal including Mookie (while I recognize it may be necessary) makes me completely unreasonable.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Nov 6, 2019 10:40:55 GMT -5
This thread was what I thought it was
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Post by 1toolplayer on Nov 14, 2019 13:56:02 GMT -5
Red Sox trade David Price to St Louis, retaining $42m of his remaining $96M contract, for RHP Ryan Helsey, RHp Andre Pallante, and 1B Luken Baker.
That put STL on the hook for 3/54, a reasonable rate for a SP, even at Price's advanced age. Price goes to the NL, where I think he'd be effective, and give the Cardinals the lefty starter they've seemingly been chasing forever, including him in FA before he joined the Sox.
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Post by soxaddict on Nov 19, 2019 20:37:27 GMT -5
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Post by davedc on Nov 19, 2019 23:01:38 GMT -5
Price and $40 million to the Braves for any of their good high minors pitching prospects. Price at an AAV of about $17M over three years has value to the Braves who need to replace Keuchel. Just make the $40M payments be:
2020: zero 2021: $20M 2022: $20M
That's $31M off the luxury tax calculation for 2020, the tax goes down to zero and resets at the lowest level when they go over again in 2021. Even leaves them $10M or so to spend to improve the team this year.
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Post by jimed14 on Nov 19, 2019 23:07:23 GMT -5
I don't even want to make a suggestion because I think getting under the cap for the last year of Mookie is incredibly stupid. They should be trying to win, not doing a half-assed rebuild.
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Post by telson13 on Nov 19, 2019 23:09:27 GMT -5
Lol, that’s actually really interesting. Honestly, if they did Price for Hosmer and Patiño and a viable third piece, I might jump at it (probably push for a second prospect tho). Maybe if the Padres are really going for it (I think they should...their system is insanely loaded, and a full year of Tatis Jr, a more comfortable Machado, and a more experienced Paddack bodes well for 2020), the Sox add Workman and the Padres include Urías coming back. The Pads get out from a horrible long term deal, and the Sox get some legit prospect value and the ability to spread the $ out. Hosmer’s basically unplayable, so I think the Sox can argue for an overpay coming back. And the Padres have tons of prospect capital, so they’re in a position to do so to get out from under his deal. I think for it to be worth it for the Sox, they’d need to get at least one high-impact guy, since Price does have value as a SP on a team needing SPs. But if the Sox got Patiño and, say, Morejon back (assuming Workman isn’t included), they could theoretically go with those guys in “bulk” positions for the 4 and 5 rotation spots, along with possibly Houck and/or Darwinzon (and maybe even Mata). There’s significant risk to moving Price, but there’s risk keeping him, too...they need Sale to be vintage Sale and Price to be a 3-4 WAR guy (and Eddie to repeat this past season) to really be a strong divisional contender. And regardless, they’d be well-served to get out from under his $90M+ commitment (or, more accurately, his high AAV). I think this is a really creative proposal. God, if somebody could get Hosmer to stop hitting so many grounders, he might actually put up positive WAR. I do think Fenway might help him a bit. It’d give them a little extra time for Dalbec, who could be a solid platoon in the second half with Hosmer (while getting additional PAs to spell Devers at times, or JDM at DH). Depending on how Dalbec does, try to flip Hosmer while subsidizing half his deal, along with prospects, next winter. His deal is terrible, though...he’s gonna be tough to flip, and if they can’t they’re stuck with an $18M bench player.
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Post by soxaddict on Nov 20, 2019 0:26:31 GMT -5
Lol, that’s actually really interesting. Honestly, if they did Price for Hosmer and Patiño and a viable third piece, I might jump at it (probably push for a second prospect tho). Maybe if the Padres are really going for it (I think they should...their system is insanely loaded, and a full year of Tatis Jr, a more comfortable Machado, and a more experienced Paddack bodes well for 2020), the Sox add Workman and the Padres include Urías coming back. The Pads get out from a horrible long term deal, and the Sox get some legit prospect value and the ability to spread the $ out. Hosmer’s basically unplayable, so I think the Sox can argue for an overpay coming back. And the Padres have tons of prospect capital, so they’re in a position to do so to get out from under his deal. I think for it to be worth it for the Sox, they’d need to get at least one high-impact guy, since Price does have value as a SP on a team needing SPs. But if the Sox got Patiño and, say, Morejon back (assuming Workman isn’t included), they could theoretically go with those guys in “bulk” positions for the 4 and 5 rotation spots, along with possibly Houck and/or Darwinzon (and maybe even Mata). There’s significant risk to moving Price, but there’s risk keeping him, too...they need Sale to be vintage Sale and Price to be a 3-4 WAR guy (and Eddie to repeat this past season) to really be a strong divisional contender. And regardless, they’d be well-served to get out from under his $90M+ commitment (or, more accurately, his high AAV). I think this is a really creative proposal. God, if somebody could get Hosmer to stop hitting so many grounders, he might actually put up positive WAR. I do think Fenway might help him a bit. It’d give them a little extra time for Dalbec, who could be a solid platoon in the second half with Hosmer (while getting additional PAs to spell Devers at times, or JDM at DH). Depending on how Dalbec does, try to flip Hosmer while subsidizing half his deal, along with prospects, next winter. His deal is terrible, though...he’s gonna be tough to flip, and if they can’t they’re stuck with an $18M bench player. I think we match up really well with the Pads. We might even get them to give us Urías if we take Hosmer. Another scenario I was looking at was Price for Hosmer, Morejon, Baez, and Cordero.
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Post by dirtywater43 on Nov 20, 2019 0:56:52 GMT -5
Hosmer's contract is crippling to a payroll. Will Myers' contract is at least tolerable. Would rather prefer that. Wouldn't touch Hosmer and that deal with a ten foot pole, no matter what is attached to it.
The only way to get Patino or Urias is if they attach Betts to said deal imho.
Plus, Myers is the type of guy who can hold the first base position down until a guy like Casas is ready. Hosmer has like 5 more years left. Hard pass.
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Post by dirtywater43 on Nov 20, 2019 5:07:17 GMT -5
As an aside, the Will Myers' contract is probably the best out of any bad contract the Sox could eat in order to facilitate a deal for Price (if they even deal him). Myers has had at least 2 wins (bWAR) 4 out of the 7 years as a major leaguer. He's still only 29 years old and he has 3 years left on his deal.
He's going to be making real money soon on his contract at 20 million per year for the next 3 years (which matters for a team like the Padres) and his AAV is only at 13.8 million (which matters to a team trying to save room for the luxury tax, like the Sox).
So in essence the Sox would be saving almost 20 million AAV if they dealt away Price for Myers and prospects. The Padres would be adding only around 12 million (per year, the next 3 years) in real money to add Price. Win, win.
There aren't many other serviceable players who can actually offer the Sox anything of value on a bad contract. Myers can actually fill in and not be a complete disaster in the outfield too (unlike JDM), while filling the first base position primarily.
Got to deal Price before the 2020 season is over, he has 10/5 veto trade protection past that point. This off-season is the off-season to do it.
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Post by jdb on Nov 20, 2019 7:52:20 GMT -5
One thing about Myers deal is that it only counts $14M towards the cap.
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Post by soxaddict on Nov 20, 2019 11:12:16 GMT -5
As an aside, the Will Myers' contract is probably the best out of any bad contract the Sox could eat in order to facilitate a deal for Price (if they even deal him). Myers has had at least 2 wins (bWAR) 4 out of the 7 years as a major leaguer. He's still only 29 years old and he has 3 years left on his deal. He's going to be making real money soon on his contract at 20 million per year for the next 3 years (which matters for a team like the Padres) and his AAV is only at 13.8 million (which matters to a team trying to save room for the luxury tax, like the Sox). So in essence the Sox would be saving almost 20 million AAV if they dealt away Price for Myers and prospects. The Padres would be adding only around 12 million (per year, the next 3 years) in real money to add Price. Win, win. There aren't many other serviceable players who can actually offer the Sox anything of value on a bad contract. Myers can actually fill in and not be a complete disaster in the outfield too (unlike JDM), while filling the first base position primarily. Got to deal Price before the 2020 season is over, he has 10/5 veto trade protection past that point. This off-season is the off-season to do it. A trade for Myers would be a straight up swap for Price as they basically have equal surplus value. Myers is owed $68.5 and Price $96. I don’t see them throwing any prospects our way without us throwing in some cash.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Nov 20, 2019 11:33:18 GMT -5
As an aside, the Will Myers' contract is probably the best out of any bad contract the Sox could eat in order to facilitate a deal for Price (if they even deal him). Myers has had at least 2 wins (bWAR) 4 out of the 7 years as a major leaguer. He's still only 29 years old and he has 3 years left on his deal. He's going to be making real money soon on his contract at 20 million per year for the next 3 years (which matters for a team like the Padres) and his AAV is only at 13.8 million (which matters to a team trying to save room for the luxury tax, like the Sox). So in essence the Sox would be saving almost 20 million AAV if they dealt away Price for Myers and prospects. The Padres would be adding only around 12 million (per year, the next 3 years) in real money to add Price. Win, win. There aren't many other serviceable players who can actually offer the Sox anything of value on a bad contract. Myers can actually fill in and not be a complete disaster in the outfield too (unlike JDM), while filling the first base position primarily. Got to deal Price before the 2020 season is over, he has 10/5 veto trade protection past that point. This off-season is the off-season to do it. A trade for Myers would be a straight up swap for Price as they basically have equal surplus value. Myers is owed $68.5 and Price $96. I don’t see them throwing any prospects our way without us throwing in some cash. Say you make a trade like that, that sends Price to SD for Wil Myers. Does Myers play LF or 1b? If it's 1b that would free up Dalbec to be dealt for hopefully a young cost controlled #3/#4 type starting pitcher with some upside. If Myers winds up in LF that cut put Benintendi in CF and hasten a trade of JBJ which they'd do anyways except they wouldn't have to deal for a replacement OF. But a more extreme idea would be if Myers in LF meant that the Sox trade Benintendi for a mid-rotation cost controlled starter with the potential to be a #2 type starter, something you couldn't get if you deal JBJ away. More likely if Myers were acquired he'd wind up at 1b making it less likely that Dalbec really has an opening to being a starting 1b meaning he'd be dealt for pitching help, but obviously a lower caliber than it would be if Benintendi was dealt. Hey, let's get crazy here and throw this deal out - one that will certainly get the Sox under the limit: Price, Benintendi, JBJ to San Diego for Wil Myers, Luis Patino, Joey Lucchesi, and Manny Margot. I mean, that's certainly not a great trade for the Red Sox. It's a salary dump of Price for Myers which is a downgrade on the field as is going from Benintendi to Myers in LF as is going from Price to Lucchesi. JBJ is better than Margot but Margot has additional years and upside still left and the Sox prize would be Patino who can help in the not-so-distant future while Lucchesi takes Price's spot in the rotation. Eventually Lucchesi would take Porcello's spot in the rotation and Patino would become a #2/#3 type starter. Or at least that's how the plan would work. A deal like that is a downgrade for the Sox. In essence you're downgrading Price to Lucchesi but saving money and you're dealing away Benintendi for Patino's upside in the rotation while Myers holds Benintendi's spot and you secure your CF future a little more with Margot over JBJ - and perhaps there's more they can get from the Padres in a deal like this to help the pen (no they wouldn't get Kirby). Again, I'm not even thrilled with my own trade idea here - they'd be better off sticking Myers at 1b, blocking Dalbec, dealing him away (SD has no need for him) and hanging onto Benintendi, but it would be difficult to replace Price, let alone making it better.
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Post by soxaddict on Nov 20, 2019 12:21:45 GMT -5
In any scenario, I think JBJ is dealt for a lower prospect or a bullpen arm. Then Benny moves over to CF. At least by moving Price and JBJ it opens up a few more possibilities.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Nov 20, 2019 12:39:09 GMT -5
In any scenario, I think JBJ is dealt for a lower prospect or a bullpen arm. Then Benny moves over to CF. At least by moving Price and JBJ it opens up a few more possibilities. I agree that JBJ gets moved either way, but I was suggesting he be part of the deal because he would be a perfect stop-gap until Taylor Trammell is ready for the Padres while Margot could replace JBJ for the Red Sox for this year and possibly going forward depending upon the development of Duran. I added Benintendi to the mix (reluctantly) because he might have the value needed to secure pitching help, which is why I have cheap pitching help for now in Lucchesi, who's not going to be a star but should be able to eat innings, in essence taking Porcello's place, and pitching help for the not-so-distant future in Patino, who could eventually take Price's spot as a #2 starter. The Sox would use Myers in LF to replace Benintendi, not that it would be ideal but he has to play somewhere. Perhaps they use him at 1b and Dalbec gets dealt, but again, like JBJ, he's not going to fetch a higher caliber of starting pitcher. Maybe it makes more sense as a Price & JBJ for Myers and Margot swap and the Sox leave out the Benintendi for Lucchesi and Patino piece, but I added that because I don't see how the Sox deal away Price for Myers and JBJ and get the starting pitching help they need to replace Porcello and Price - for cheap. Again, don't love my proposal, but it would do the job. Frankly, I'd rather the Sox just bite the bullet on the money and go with what they got, and hope the Price and Sale are healthy and take their best shot and if it doesn't work out make a bunch of deadline deals in July.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 20, 2019 14:53:33 GMT -5
As an aside, the Will Myers' contract is probably the best out of any bad contract the Sox could eat in order to facilitate a deal for Price (if they even deal him). Myers has had at least 2 wins (bWAR) 4 out of the 7 years as a major leaguer. He's still only 29 years old and he has 3 years left on his deal. He's going to be making real money soon on his contract at 20 million per year for the next 3 years (which matters for a team like the Padres) and his AAV is only at 13.8 million (which matters to a team trying to save room for the luxury tax, like the Sox). So in essence the Sox would be saving almost 20 million AAV if they dealt away Price for Myers and prospects. The Padres would be adding only around 12 million (per year, the next 3 years) in real money to add Price. Win, win. There aren't many other serviceable players who can actually offer the Sox anything of value on a bad contract. Myers can actually fill in and not be a complete disaster in the outfield too (unlike JDM), while filling the first base position primarily. Got to deal Price before the 2020 season is over, he has 10/5 veto trade protection past that point. This off-season is the off-season to do it. A trade for Myers would be a straight up swap for Price as they basically have equal surplus value. Myers is owed $68.5 and Price $96. I don’t see them throwing any prospects our way without us throwing in some cash. Do they though? Myers might be one of the hardest players to evaluate going forward. Two years at 1B, one rather good, the next one about league average. Two years ago he looks good bwar wise but gets a boost from good defensive numbers in the OF and playing half his games at 3B. This year he just tanked and only had 18 HRs in the year of the HR. Is he already declining? Price was over 2 bwar better last year, in 2018 he was worth 4.4 bwar. Sure Price is an injury risk, but Myers hasn't been the healthiest guy even while he was young. Myers career numbers in the OF overall just aren't good and you can find guys like Moreland for like 6 million that can give you around 2 bwar at 1B. While Myers is going to make 22 million. His AAV is nice if he can be a lot better player than a guy like Moreland, but can he? Just my two cents but I'm not even considering a one for one swap. They'd have to add some real talent to get me to take Meyers deal. You can't fully count on Price, but he also has a very good chance of having another 4.4 bwar season over the next three years. Who knows what Meyers does. I'd rather gamble on the older guy that has just been a better player and we need more not less pitching.
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Post by dirtywater43 on Nov 20, 2019 15:45:12 GMT -5
A trade for Myers would be a straight up swap for Price as they basically have equal surplus value. Myers is owed $68.5 and Price $96. I don’t see them throwing any prospects our way without us throwing in some cash. Just my two cents but I'm not even considering a one for one swap. They'd have to add some real talent to get me to take Meyers deal. You can't fully count on Price, but he also has a very good chance of having another 4.4 bwar season over the next three years. Who knows what Meyers does. I'd rather gamble on the older guy that has just been a better player and we need more not less pitching. The Sox have to cut payroll one way or another, if you don't deal Price this off-season, you might never deal him. I agree that more talent has to be going back the Sox way, but this is the exact kind of contract the Sox should be considering swapping in order to reduce payroll. A lot easier to put Sale, Eduardo, Eovaldi as your front 3 guys in a rotation and find back end guys rather than keep Price and fill in guys with no payroll room. A LOT needs to go right in this scenario for the Sox to compete, but a lot needs to go right anyways when the owner is putting out that the payroll should be dropped. You trade Mookie and Price this off-season and take back a Will Myers contract, you're saving nearly 45 million in AAV right there.
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Post by jimed14 on Nov 20, 2019 16:38:08 GMT -5
Well if the goal is to get under the cap and not to win, then great. But to basically not replace Price or JBJ is just a great way to be mediocre, but not bad enough to improve their prospects much. They should either try to win one more year or start a full on rebuild right now. In between is just plain stupidity.
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Post by dirtywater43 on Nov 20, 2019 22:01:29 GMT -5
Well if the goal is to get under the cap and not to win, then great. But to basically not replace Price or JBJ is just a great way to be mediocre, but not bad enough to improve their prospects much. They should either try to win one more year or start a full on rebuild right now. In between is just plain stupidity. I agree it's not smart. One way or the other. Doesn't seem like the ownership's intentions however. They want to be competitive while cutting payroll. The good news is if you trade Price for Myers and prospects, you save 20 million AAV. If you trade JBJ and Mookie for another 40 million AAV, you'd have a ton of room for extensions. That'd put you right around 60 million dollars saved for Devers and Eduardo Rodriguez extensions (40 million dollars actually since they're already over the luxury tax threshold by around 20 million right now as they sit without cutting payroll). Also the talent of young players coming back will help you save in future years.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 21, 2019 12:55:59 GMT -5
Just my two cents but I'm not even considering a one for one swap. They'd have to add some real talent to get me to take Meyers deal. You can't fully count on Price, but he also has a very good chance of having another 4.4 bwar season over the next three years. Who knows what Meyers does. I'd rather gamble on the older guy that has just been a better player and we need more not less pitching. The Sox have to cut payroll one way or another, if you don't deal Price this off-season, you might never deal him. I agree that more talent has to be going back the Sox way, but this is the exact kind of contract the Sox should be considering swapping in order to reduce payroll. A lot easier to put Sale, Eduardo, Eovaldi as your front 3 guys in a rotation and find back end guys rather than keep Price and fill in guys with no payroll room. A LOT needs to go right in this scenario for the Sox to compete, but a lot needs to go right anyways when the owner is putting out that the payroll should be dropped. You trade Mookie and Price this off-season and take back a Will Myers contract, you're saving nearly 45 million in AAV right there. Kinda depends who is coming back in the trade no? If it includes a couple of young starters that are ready now, it could make sense. The Padres have a bunch of prospects like that. Personally I think over the next three years Price will have a higher value at some point and you can get a good return for him. Which is why I only deal him now for a guy like Myers if they include a good amount with Myers.
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Post by dirtywater43 on Nov 21, 2019 18:07:22 GMT -5
The Sox have to cut payroll one way or another, if you don't deal Price this off-season, you might never deal him. I agree that more talent has to be going back the Sox way, but this is the exact kind of contract the Sox should be considering swapping in order to reduce payroll. A lot easier to put Sale, Eduardo, Eovaldi as your front 3 guys in a rotation and find back end guys rather than keep Price and fill in guys with no payroll room. A LOT needs to go right in this scenario for the Sox to compete, but a lot needs to go right anyways when the owner is putting out that the payroll should be dropped. You trade Mookie and Price this off-season and take back a Will Myers contract, you're saving nearly 45 million in AAV right there. Kinda depends who is coming back in the trade no? If it includes a couple of young starters that are ready now, it could make sense. The Padres have a bunch of prospects like that. Personally I think over the next three years Price will have a higher value at some point and you can get a good return for him. Which is why I only deal him now for a guy like Myers if they include a good amount with Myers. Price will probably be worth 75 percent of the rest of his deal, which is why value would have to be returned. Price is about as good of a fit for the young Padres pitching staff as there can be. Not a lot of active pitchers around with as much experiece as David Price. This idea is the only reasonable idea I can even remotely come up with, along with trading Mookie and JBJ to cut payroll. No one is taking Eovaldi, Pedrioa, Sale (as of right now with the elbow problems). JDM can block the three teams who might even be remotely interested in his services (AL teams with a DH position available). You can't trade Xander and that awesome contract. There really is no other way to cut payroll from where I can see. The 10/5 no trade protection past 2020 only gives the Sox more pressure to deal Price now too.
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Post by dmaineah on Nov 21, 2019 19:14:30 GMT -5
Starting Pitcher David Price & his remaining 3 years $96m to Philadelphia for Shortstop Jean Segura & his remaining 3 years $46m & Catcher Deivy Grullon.
Segura plays 2B & Grullon becomes the backup Catcher. Or you flip Segura to a SS needing team (Reds, Brewers) for Pitching.
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Post by dirtywater43 on Nov 21, 2019 20:02:22 GMT -5
Starting Pitcher David Price & his remaining 3 years $96m to Philadelphia for Shortstop Jean Segura & his remaining 3 years $46m & Catcher Deivy Grullon. Segura plays 2B & Grullon becomes the backup Catcher. Or you flip Segura to a SS needing team (Reds, Brewers) for Pitching. That's not a terrible idea, but why would the Phillies trade their starting short stop? The Phillies would be side stepping there.
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Post by dmaineah on Nov 21, 2019 20:54:55 GMT -5
Starting Pitcher David Price & his remaining 3 years $96m to Philadelphia for Shortstop Jean Segura & his remaining 3 years $46m & Catcher Deivy Grullon. Segura plays 2B & Grullon becomes the backup Catcher. Or you flip Segura to a SS needing team (Reds, Brewers) for Pitching. That's not a terrible idea, but why would the Phillies trade their starting short stop? The Phillies would be side stepping there. I think it’s cheaper to trade for Price & sign DiDi to play SS then It is to keep Segura & sign Cole or Strasburg.
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