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Get under the cap trade proposals
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Nov 21, 2019 22:12:56 GMT -5
That's not a terrible idea, but why would the Phillies trade their starting short stop? The Phillies would be side stepping there. I think it’s cheaper to trade for Price & sign DiDi to play SS then It is to keep Segura & sign Cole or Strasburg. It's not that much cheaper, at least not annually. The offset between Price and Segura and then having to sign Didi to replace Segura isn't that much cheaper than if they sign Cole or Strasburg and simply keep Segura. And from a quality standpoint who'd you rather have? Cole/Strasburg and Segura or Price and Didi? No brainer, you take the former.
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Post by dmaineah on Nov 22, 2019 7:14:56 GMT -5
I think it’s cheaper to trade for Price & sign DiDi to play SS then It is to keep Segura & sign Cole or Strasburg. It's not that much cheaper, at least not annually. The offset between Price and Segura and then having to sign Didi to replace Segura isn't that much cheaper than if they sign Cole or Strasburg and simply keep Segura.And from a quality standpoint who'd you rather have? Cole/Strasburg and Segura or Price and Didi? No brainer, you take the former. Price & Didi should be around $140m total & each for only 3 years Cole & Segura $300m+ depending on Cole’s years (8?) Strasburg & Segura $225m+ depending on Strasburg’s years (6?)
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Nov 22, 2019 9:34:28 GMT -5
It's not that much cheaper, at least not annually. The offset between Price and Segura and then having to sign Didi to replace Segura isn't that much cheaper than if they sign Cole or Strasburg and simply keep Segura.And from a quality standpoint who'd you rather have? Cole/Strasburg and Segura or Price and Didi? No brainer, you take the former. Price & Didi should be around $140m total & each for only 3 years Cole & Segura $300m+ depending on Cole’s years (8?) Strasburg & Segura $225m+ depending on Strasburg’s years (6?) That's why I used the word "annually". And it also comes down to quality. It's debatable that Price is more valuable over 3 years than Cole is during the entirety of his longer deal. If Price was close to 2012 version Price or whatever, but he's not. He's still a good pitcher - when he's healthy. He's not really an ace caliber pitcher anymore and he's unable to be a 200 inning horse that he once was. I get the argument that just because Cole was filthy in 2020 doesn't mean he will be in 2026 or whatever. I just think given the amount of Ks he got last year perhaps he has a better shot at maintaining his dominance going forward to a reasonable amount of time and then when you compare Didi to Segura, I'd rather have Segura at this point. Let's face it the Phillies are a better team with Cole/Strasburg plus Segura than they would be with Price plus Didi - and factor in that the Phillies aren't afraid of long-term commitment - hello Bryce Harper. I think they're aiming top shelf in their free agent shopping or "spending stupid money" as their owner put it.
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Post by telson13 on Nov 22, 2019 16:54:54 GMT -5
Lol, that’s actually really interesting. Honestly, if they did Price for Hosmer and Patiño and a viable third piece, I might jump at it (probably push for a second prospect tho). Maybe if the Padres are really going for it (I think they should...their system is insanely loaded, and a full year of Tatis Jr, a more comfortable Machado, and a more experienced Paddack bodes well for 2020), the Sox add Workman and the Padres include Urías coming back. The Pads get out from a horrible long term deal, and the Sox get some legit prospect value and the ability to spread the $ out. Hosmer’s basically unplayable, so I think the Sox can argue for an overpay coming back. And the Padres have tons of prospect capital, so they’re in a position to do so to get out from under his deal. I think for it to be worth it for the Sox, they’d need to get at least one high-impact guy, since Price does have value as a SP on a team needing SPs. But if the Sox got Patiño and, say, Morejon back (assuming Workman isn’t included), they could theoretically go with those guys in “bulk” positions for the 4 and 5 rotation spots, along with possibly Houck and/or Darwinzon (and maybe even Mata). There’s significant risk to moving Price, but there’s risk keeping him, too...they need Sale to be vintage Sale and Price to be a 3-4 WAR guy (and Eddie to repeat this past season) to really be a strong divisional contender. And regardless, they’d be well-served to get out from under his $90M+ commitment (or, more accurately, his high AAV). I think this is a really creative proposal. God, if somebody could get Hosmer to stop hitting so many grounders, he might actually put up positive WAR. I do think Fenway might help him a bit. It’d give them a little extra time for Dalbec, who could be a solid platoon in the second half with Hosmer (while getting additional PAs to spell Devers at times, or JDM at DH). Depending on how Dalbec does, try to flip Hosmer while subsidizing half his deal, along with prospects, next winter. His deal is terrible, though...he’s gonna be tough to flip, and if they can’t they’re stuck with an $18M bench player. I think we match up really well with the Pads. We might even get them to give us Urías if we take Hosmer. Another scenario I was looking at was Price for Hosmer, Morejon, Baez, and Cordero. Yeah, I agree that the Pads are a good match, in that they have almost “too much” minor league talent (lots of redundancy) but not enough MLB talent. There’s also a market issue there, and some dead weight salaries they could stand to dump, especially if they’re getting into the Strasburg/Cole sweepstakes, which makes a ton of sense for them. They’re very, very close to being extremely competitive, and have had some successful graduations. But efficiency-wise they’ll probably need to convert some prospects to MLB players (beyond just graduations) to avoid prospect (and thus value) stagnation, and ideally retool their salary structure to get much more value from their most expensive players. Getting rid of Hosmer and/or Myers creates substantial gain for them long-term, and potentially short-term depending on who those $ go to. They’re pretty incredibly set up for a stretch of big success.
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Post by soxaddict on Nov 22, 2019 20:54:17 GMT -5
Only a few weeks left before the winter meetings are underway. My wife is killing me with Lifetime and Hallmark! I need Red Sox baseball in my life. Let’s see some trade proposals and/or free agent signings.
Jackie Bradley Jr. to the Mets for Justin Wilson. Saves us $6M towards the luxury tax and gives us a good LHRP.
David Price to the Padres for Eric Hosmer, Franchy Cordero, Michael Baez and Adrian Morejon. Saves us $13M towards the luxury tax.
Before any other moves, our roster looks something like this.
Chris Sale Eduardo Rodriguez Nathan Eovaldi Darwinzon Hernandez Michael Baez
Brandon Workman Matt Barnes Marcus Walden Heath Hembree Justin Wilson Josh Taylor Josh Osich Brian Johnson
RF Mookie Betts CF Andrew Benentindi DH J.D.Martinez 3B Rafael Devers SS Xander Bogaerts 2B Michael Chavis 1B Eric Hosmer C Christian Vazquez LF Franchy Cordero
C Free Agent 1B Bobby Dalbec UT Marco Hernandez OF Marcus Wilson
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Post by jimed14 on Nov 23, 2019 7:49:10 GMT -5
I've been seeing this over and over again, but Benintendi is not a very good CF. He's ok as a fill-in. If they trade JBJ, I'd put Mookie out there and find a new RF.
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Post by nesportfan on Nov 23, 2019 8:32:03 GMT -5
Only a few weeks left before the winter meetings are underway. My wife is killing me with Lifetime and Hallmark! I need Red Sox baseball in my life. Let’s see some trade proposals and/or free agent signings. Jackie Bradley Jr. to the Mets for Justin Wilson. Saves us $6M towards the luxury tax and gives us a good LHRP. David Price to the Padres for Eric Hosmer, Franchy Cordero, Michael Baez and Adrian Morejon. Saves us $13M towards the luxury tax. Before any other moves, our roster looks something like this.Chris Sale Eduardo Rodriguez Nathan Eovaldi Darwinzon Hernandez Michael Baez Brandon Workman Matt Barnes Marcus Walden Heath Hembree Justin Wilson Josh Taylor Josh Osich Brian Johnson RF Mookie Betts CF Andrew Benentindi DH J.D.Martinez 3B Rafael Devers SS Xander Bogaerts 2B Michael Chavis 1B Eric Hosmer C Christian Vazquez LF Franchy Cordero C Free Agent 1B Bobby Dalbec UT Marco Hernandez OF Marcus Wilson I really hate this trade scenario. Hosmer, Cordero, Wilson, Yuck! What about Travis & Lin? They’re both out of options. Do you just let them go? Haven’t they already told Hernandez that he will be in the bullpen? I agree that Mookie plays CF not Benintendi. And isn’t Michael Baez a bullpen arm, not a SP? How about, screw the cap & go for it with what they have! If they’re out of it at the trade deadline, then they can move some pieces.
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Post by nesportfan on Nov 23, 2019 8:51:34 GMT -5
Starting Pitcher David Price & his remaining 3 years $96m to Philadelphia for Shortstop Jean Segura & his remaining 3 years $46m & Catcher Deivy Grullon. Segura plays 2B & Grullon becomes the backup Catcher. Or you flip Segura to a SS needing team (Reds, Brewers) for Pitching. So who is starting beyond Sale, Rodriguez & Eovaldi?
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Post by soxaddict on Nov 23, 2019 11:55:03 GMT -5
Do you prefer to have Travis and Lin on the active roster? Why? Hernandez and Baez both were successful starters a year ago in the minors. I hate seeing good arms wasted and running guys like Johnson and Weber out there. I don’t have a problem with Mookie in center, but it takes a special talent to play RF at Fenway.
If screwing the cap is an option, then yeah. But what’s the plan? This team is a third place team as is.
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Post by dmaineah on Nov 24, 2019 5:02:08 GMT -5
Starting Pitcher David Price & his remaining 3 years $96m to Philadelphia for Shortstop Jean Segura & his remaining 3 years $46m & Catcher Deivy Grullon. Segura plays 2B & Grullon becomes the backup Catcher. Or you flip Segura to a SS needing team (Reds, Brewers) for Pitching. So who is starting beyond Sale, Rodriguez & Eovaldi? Yea, that’s an issue for sure. Plus I’m not a believer in Sales health. Openers, like they did in Tampa? Like you I would prefer they keep the roster in place. They don’t have to be under the cap to start the season. If they are out of it at the trade deadline then make some trades & get under. If they are in it, screw the cap & go for it. I’m just putting that trade out there because of all the talk of having to get under the cap.
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Post by dirtywater43 on Nov 25, 2019 10:48:43 GMT -5
Starting Pitcher David Price & his remaining 3 years $96m to Philadelphia for Shortstop Jean Segura & his remaining 3 years $46m & Catcher Deivy Grullon. Segura plays 2B & Grullon becomes the backup Catcher. Or you flip Segura to a SS needing team (Reds, Brewers) for Pitching. Segura has a full no trade clause and won't go anywhere if he doesn't want to.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 25, 2019 12:57:08 GMT -5
Do you prefer to have Travis and Lin on the active roster? Why? Hernandez and Baez both were successful starters a year ago in the minors. I hate seeing good arms wasted and running guys like Johnson and Weber out there. I don’t have a problem with Mookie in center, but it takes a special talent to play RF at Fenway. If screwing the cap is an option, then yeah. But what’s the plan? This team is a third place team as is. In 2018 those guys spent the majority of the year pitching in high A. Most times you need success in AA and AAA to see a correlation to major league success. Guys with great fastballs, so-so secondary stuff and weak command and control can dominate the lower minors, yet usually starting at AA the hitters are more advanced. I don't know much about Baez, yet reports say he lost command and that's why he was moved to the bullpen, the same role he had in Cuba. His walk numbers aren't horrible though. How are his secondary pitches? Like I get it, Hernandez has a big arm and a starters build. Yet he doesn't seem close to ready to start. He walked 7.7 per nine innings and had a whip of like 1.750 in a bullpen role last year. Unless he makes some massive improvements you don't want to see him starting.
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Post by soxaddict on Nov 26, 2019 16:23:00 GMT -5
Per scouting reports, above average slider and average change up. I watched him open a game at the end of the season. Two scoreless with four strikeouts and one walk. Looked really good. I wonder if we won’t use an opener this year.
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Post by jdb on Nov 28, 2019 9:27:53 GMT -5
SD keeps adding OFers. You would think Myers would have to be shipped out.
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Post by dirtywater43 on Dec 10, 2019 0:14:58 GMT -5
As an aside, the Will Myers' contract is probably the best out of any bad contract the Sox could eat in order to facilitate a deal for Price (if they even deal him). Myers has had at least 2 wins (bWAR) 4 out of the 7 years as a major leaguer. He's still only 29 years old and he has 3 years left on his deal.
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Post by beasleyrockah on Dec 10, 2019 2:04:55 GMT -5
Swapping Price for Myers would shave just over $17m off the luxury tax total. The actual cash savings would be less but ownership has talked about their budget in terms of the tax, not real money. I think Price should have more trade value than Myers but it's close enough given the current luxury tax situation. Either way the Red Sox should be targeting bad contract swaps where they acquire guys with a lower AAV due to backloaded deals. Most teams aren't close to the tax and won't care about the difference in AAV, just swap contracts and game the tax a bit.
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Post by dmaineah on Dec 10, 2019 18:25:31 GMT -5
Starting Pitcher David Price & his remaining 3 years $96m to Philadelphia for Shortstop Jean Segura & his remaining 3 years $46m & Catcher Deivy Grullon. Segura plays 2B & Grullon becomes the backup Catcher. Or you flip Segura to a SS needing team (Reds, Brewers) for Pitching. I like this trade scenario for the Red Sox even more now that Philadelphia has signed Didi & Wheeler. Price would give Philadelphia the other SP they desire, they could play Kingery at 2B & sign Donaldson or Rendon to play 3B & the Red Sox clear some salary & get Segura to play 2B & a back up Catcher. Or maybe they get a 3rd team involved that needs a SS (Reds, Brewers) or CF (Mets) & some other players or prospects or some $$$ or some combination of all are included with Segura or JBJ moving to that 3rd team.
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Post by edjurak22 on Dec 11, 2019 0:36:19 GMT -5
Hi folks...long time reader here but first time poster. I was thinking about this tonight and I figured I'd throw this out there and see what you think:
The Sox need to trim $19 million from payroll and also need a backup catcher, first or second baseman (depending where they put Chavis), and bullpen help (preferably a lefty)
Trade Price to San Diego for Wil Myers and a B prospect (Anderson Espinoza??) - saves $18 million toward luxury tax (the prospect offsets the fact that Boston would be paying $9 million more to Myers than his luxury tax salary and that Price is closer to being worth his contract than Myers is) - San Diego gets rid of Myers' bad contract and gets a pitcher who probably will do well in a bigger stadium and lower-pressure environment - Myers can play first or left field relatively adequately and, offensively, would at least offset the loss of Bradley (see below)
Trade Bradley to Chicago White Sox for Aaron Bummer and Yermin Mercedes - saves about $9.8 million toward luxury tax - CWS have plenty of cap room and essentially need two everyday outfielders until prospects are ready - Bummer is a pre-arbitration lefty who doesn't throw hard but held both righties and lefties to BAs under .200 last year and rarely gives up homers - CWS is set at catcher and already have a prospect at Triple A, so Mercedes is expendable. He has consistently put up very good offensive numbers in the minors and could be a solid backup.
Overall, this would save the Red Sox nearly $29 million and fill a couple of holes. Obviously it would create a hole in the starting rotation and either left field or first base (depending on where they put Myers). But, by being about $10 million under the tax threshold, they could re-sign someone like Brock Holt or a pitcher like Rich Hill.
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Post by dmaineah on Dec 11, 2019 4:01:22 GMT -5
Hi folks...long time reader here but first time poster. I was thinking about this tonight and I figured I'd throw this out there and see what you think: The Sox need to trim $19 million from payroll and also need a backup catcher, first or second baseman (depending where they put Chavis), and bullpen help (preferably a lefty) Trade Price to San Diego for Wil Myers and a B prospect (Anderson Espinoza??) - saves $18 million toward luxury tax (the prospect offsets the fact that Boston would be paying $9 million more to Myers than his luxury tax salary and that Price is closer to being worth his contract than Myers is) - San Diego gets rid of Myers' bad contract and gets a pitcher who probably will do well in a bigger stadium and lower-pressure environment - Myers can play first or left field relatively adequately and, offensively, would at least offset the loss of Bradley (see below) Trade Bradley to Chicago White Sox for Aaron Bummer and Yermin Mercedes - saves about $9.8 million toward luxury tax - CWS have plenty of cap room and essentially need two everyday outfielders until prospects are ready - Bummer is a pre-arbitration lefty who doesn't throw hard but held both righties and lefties to BAs under .200 last year and rarely gives up homers - CWS is set at catcher and already have a prospect at Triple A, so Mercedes is expendable. He has consistently put up very good offensive numbers in the minors and could be a solid backup. Overall, this would save the Red Sox nearly $29 million and fill a couple of holes. Obviously it would create a hole in the starting rotation and either left field or first base (depending on where they put Myers). But, by being about $10 million under the tax threshold, they could re-sign someone like Brock Holt or a pitcher like Rich Hill. That seems like an extreme overpay for JBJ with his salary + the White Sox have Leury Garcia to hold down center to open the season and then step back into a reserve role when Luis Robert is deemed ready to man center field after passing the super 2 date. And isn't Rich Hill out until July?
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Post by jdb on Dec 28, 2019 12:45:29 GMT -5
Swapping Price for Myers would shave just over $17m off the luxury tax total. The actual cash savings would be less but ownership has talked about their budget in terms of the tax, not real money. I think Price should have more trade value than Myers but it's close enough given the current luxury tax situation. Either way the Red Sox should be targeting bad contract swaps where they acquire guys with a lower AAV due to backloaded deals. Most teams aren't close to the tax and won't care about the difference in AAV, just swap contracts and game the tax a bit. With Price I keep coming back here. SD needs to win, needs pitching and needs to get rid of Myers and I don’t see any other avenues for them to clear his $22 million and add. Maybe try to expand it a little and get back their competitive balance pick after R1 and one of Weathers or Morejon for essentially giving them a good 2-3 for basically a $9 million a year increase over Myers. Myers would be over paid but could go 30+ in Fenway and adds flexibility with his ability to play OF/1B/DH. We are buying a few prospects as well.
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Post by dmaineah on Dec 31, 2019 12:41:19 GMT -5
Maybe Bogaerts is the player who should be traded. He’d be easier then any of the SP because of their salaries & health concerns. Easier then Betts because of his contract status or Martinez who is just a DH & how many teams need one? Bogaerts could go to a team that needs a SS or a 3B. What would Atlanta or Washington or Minnesota or Philadelphia or Cincinnati give up to get Bogaerts bat & contract? I think that he would bring back a pretty nice return & save big $$$.
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Post by mwgray on Jan 2, 2020 12:15:55 GMT -5
Based on projections, The Sox need to reduce payroll by roughly $29.5M. There is only really 6 options on how to get under the luxury tax. All trades return minimum salary prospects that won't be ready to contribute to avoid argument.
1. Trade David Price. Save $31.5M. $2M to spend, and Velazquez is your likely 5th starter/opener. Worst prospect package, likely sending your prospects away.
2. Trade Martinez, along with JBJ. Save $33.75M. $4.25M to spend, Betts to CF, Chavis to RF, Dalbec to 1B. 5th best prospect package return.
3. Trade Bogaerts, along with JBJ. Save $30M. $.5M to spend, Betts to CF, Chavis to RF, Dalbec to 1B, Peraza to SS, Hernandez 2B. 4th best prospect package return.
4. Trade Sale. Save $29.5M. At the cap, and Velazquez is your likely 5th starter/opener. 2nd best prospect package return.
5. Trade Betts, along with JBJ. Save $37.7M. $8.2M to spend, Chavis to RF, Peraza to CF, and Hernandez to 2B. 3rd best prospect package return.
6. Trade Betts, along with Workman. Save $30.2M. $.7M to spend, Chavis to RF, Dalbec to 1B, and Barnes CL. Best prospect package return.
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Post by wcsoxfan on Jan 4, 2020 13:24:07 GMT -5
I've been thinking through a few options for an LAD trade if they're really planning to 'go for it' in 2020 and are willing to spend $$ - here's what I've got:
Dodgers get: Mookie Betts, David Price, 9mil/3yrs Red Sox get: Alex Verdugo, Tony Gonsolin, A.J. Pollock, Jacob Amaya
- Verdugo (23) has 5 years of control left, 1 season of MLB success (2.2 fWAR) and will be an above average RF/CF for the foreseeable future. - Gonsolin (25) has 6 years of control left, was a solid depth start for the Dodgers last year, is the Dodgers 6th ranked prospect per MLB and would likely be the Red Sox number 5 starter for 2020. - Pollock (32) has 2-4 years left on a funky contract that's underwater. He's likely to be an above average-to-average CF/RF who only plays ~100 games per year due to injuries. He is mainly to offset cost and open a spot for another RHH for the Dodgers in Mookie. - Amaya (21) finished 2019 in High-A (ranked 13th among Dodgers by MLB), where he's likely to begin 2020. He's a 2B/SS who seems to have a ceiling floor between solid MLB starter and utility MLB infielder due to above average arm/glove and a great motor/work ethic (one of those guys every manager wants on his team).
Along with the above trade I would move JBJ for a relief pitcher then sign Nick Castellanos (4yr/60mil) to play 1B/LF/DH and Jarrod Dyson (1yr/3mil) as a backup CFer/pinch runner. This would reduce the Red Sox payroll by ~36mil (depending on the reliever received for JBJ) and keep the Red Sox competitive for a playoff spot in 2020 while resetting the luxury tax and positioning them well with cheap long-term assets to allow them to splurge in 2021 and 2022.
The Dodgers would avoid giving up any of their star-level top prospects and would be much better in 2020. Would the Dodgers be willing to increase payroll this much? Would they be fully committed to re-sign Mookie in free agency? How highly do they regard Verdugo? Can't know how reasonable the above is without knowing the answers to these questions.
What do you guys think? Having Verdugo/Gonsolin long-term enough to offset the sting from losing Mookie?
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Post by coke0myfavdrink on Jan 4, 2020 15:28:29 GMT -5
I've been thinking through a few options for an LAD trade if they're really planning to 'go for it' in 2020 and are willing to spend $$ - here's what I've got: Dodgers get: Mookie Betts, David Price, 9mil/3yrs Red Sox get: Alex Verdugo, Tony Gonsolin, A.J. Pollock, Jacob Amaya - Verdugo (23) has 5 years of control left, 1 season of MLB success (2.2 fWAR) and will be an above average RF/CF for the foreseeable future. - Gonsolin (25) has 6 years of control left, was a solid depth start for the Dodgers last year, is the Dodgers 6th ranked prospect per MLB and would likely be the Red Sox number 5 starter for 2020. - Pollock (32) has 2-4 years left on a funky contract that's underwater. He's likely to be an above average-to-average CF/RF who only plays ~100 games per year due to injuries. He is mainly to offset cost and open a spot for another RHH for the Dodgers in Mookie. - Amaya (21) finished 2019 in High-A (ranked 13th among Dodgers by MLB), where he's likely to begin 2020. He's a 2B/SS who seems to have a ceiling floor between solid MLB starter and utility MLB infielder due to above average arm/glove and a great motor/work ethic (one of those guys every manager wants on his team). Along with the above trade I would move JBJ for a relief pitcher then sign Nick Castellanos (4yr/60mil) to play 1B/LF/DH and Jarrod Dyson (1yr/3mil) as a backup CFer/pinch runner. This would reduce the Red Sox payroll by ~36mil (depending on the reliever received for JBJ) and keep the Red Sox competitive for a playoff spot in 2020 while resetting the luxury tax and positioning them well with cheap long-term assets to along the to splurge in 2021 and 2022. The Dodgers would avoid giving up any of their star-level top prospects and would be much better in 2020. Would the Dodgers be willing to increase payroll this much? Would they be fully committed to re-sign Mookie in free agency? How highly do they regard Verdugo? Can't know how reasonable the above is without knowing the answers to these questions. What do you guys think? Having Verdugo/Gonsolin long-term enough to offset the sting from losing Mookie? I don't think la does that trade but if they do i like it.
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