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2019-20 National Outlet Rankings
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Post by soxin8 on Feb 21, 2020 11:37:18 GMT -5
Let us never forget thicc boi's brief reign as our #1 prospect. We had a hell of a run! Fare thee well to our temporary curvy prince Graterol's near Red Sox career reminded me of another trade for a top reliever that was cancelled: dodgers.mlblogs.com/the-dodgers-near-miss-with-fred-lynn-cc8299158ee7Howe, even with his off field problems, and Marshall would have been a much better return than what the Sox got from the Angels for Lynn. Articles like this should help if you are ever upset with the current Sox ownership.
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redsox04071318champs
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Always hoping to make my handle even longer...
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 21, 2020 11:52:01 GMT -5
We had a hell of a run! Fare thee well to our temporary curvy prince Graterol's near Red Sox career reminded me of another trade for a top reliever that was cancelled: dodgers.mlblogs.com/the-dodgers-near-miss-with-fred-lynn-cc8299158ee7Howe, even with his off field problems, and Marshall would have been a much better return than what the Sox got from the Angels for Lynn. Articles like this should help if you are ever upset with the current Sox ownership. Thanks for sharing. That was a very memorable time for me. I was a kid and just kind of getting aware of things going on around me. It was right around the week John Lennon was shot and killed I believe where there was a lot of baseball action going on. I think the Burleson/Hobson for Lansford/Clear/Miller deal got done around that time and it was actually a good trade for the Sox. I remember the rumors of Lynn going to LA for Mike Marshall/Steve Howe/Joe Beckwith although I thought I remembered Rudy Law being part of those discussions. As crazy as it was for the Sox, I was researching the Cardinals for some reason from that offseason where they totally remade their franchise, signing Darrell Porter, trading for Rollie Fingers and then trading for another HOF closer the next day in Bruce Sutter and then packaging Fingers, Pete Vuckovich, and their icon Ted Simmons to Milwaukee for Sixto Lezcano, Lary Sorensen and two youngsters in David Green and Dave LaPoint (a 1982 contributor) - it was a great deal for Milwaukee and helped craft them into Harvey's Wallbangers, but even though that Milwaukee deal wasn't good, it totally reshaped the Cardinals. And days after I researched that MLB network came out with a special on Whitey Herzog's Cardinals and it touched upon that week. Eventually the Sox did deal away Lynn for practically nothing, not that Frank Tanana was nothing. He was transitioning from injured flame thrower into soft tossing salad master (as Eck would say) and by time his transformation was complete he wasn't with the Sox anymore. The Sox got Joe Rudi who they almost got with Fingers from 1976 but by 1981 he was washed up. They did eventually get Mike Marshall from LA, but in 1990 when he was washed up. Interesting stuff from a very memorable impressionable year for me (I remember George Brett over .400 in September, the great NLCS between Philly/Houston, the Yanks finally getting crushed by KC, and the Phils winning their first World Series, although I had no idea it was their first at the time.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Feb 24, 2020 12:37:23 GMT -5
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Post by soxaddict on Feb 24, 2020 15:51:15 GMT -5
That seems extremely low for both.
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Post by huskies15 on Feb 24, 2020 16:19:35 GMT -5
Law always values the premium positions. He seems to usually be higher on the super young SS's and CF's than the rest of industry; thus pushing down the 2B and 1B types unless they're close to the majors or outliers.
That said, the 60-90 range seems to be somewhat common for these two so far iirc.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Feb 24, 2020 17:35:23 GMT -5
That seems extremely low for both. It is not, really. BA: Downs 86, Casas 70 (Dalbec 75) (Will pull grades later if I remember) MLB: Downs 44 (55), Casas 77 (55) FG: Downs 47 (50), Casas 57 (50) Law: Downs 70 ("above-average regular" projection), Casas 90 ("above-average regular" projection) Law always tends to have some out-there rankings (e.g., not ranking Nick Madrigal or Keibert Ruiz this year), but these feel within the range of what you'd expect to see. If anything, his projection for both is higher than what FG has and squares with MLB.
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Post by Smittyw on Feb 25, 2020 7:57:56 GMT -5
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Post by James Dunne on Feb 25, 2020 10:31:04 GMT -5
Right, see, he clearly hates the Red Sox.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Feb 25, 2020 10:44:46 GMT -5
I actually really like reading what Law has to say, but I also think he does things like excluding Madrigal for attention or the opportunity to be standoffish towards fans who question him. But hey, nobody is perfect and he's a smart guy with a good eye for talent.
Cool to see Song get some love. Hopefully he doesn't get screwed by his commitment
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Feb 25, 2020 10:50:35 GMT -5
I don't get how you consider him a just outside the top 100 guy if he doesn't pitch until 2022 though. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Post by James Dunne on Feb 25, 2020 11:04:31 GMT -5
From a purely objective standpoint I hear you, but if Law thinks he's a Top 100 guy in terms of talent then I can see including him as a guy worth highlighting. It makes sense if instead of "here's guys I'd have at 101 through 120" you see it as "here's more dudes I find interesting and want to say something about."
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Post by wcsoxfan on Feb 25, 2020 11:07:29 GMT -5
Is Law attending more games these days and watching video?
Or is he relying on what sources are telling him?
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Post by texs31 on Feb 25, 2020 11:10:39 GMT -5
From a purely objective standpoint I hear you, but if Law thinks he's a Top 100 guy in terms of talent then I can see including him as a guy worth highlighting. It makes sense if instead of "here's guys I'd have at 101 through 120" you see it as "here's more dudes I find interesting and want to say something about." Spent 10 minutes trying to type that out in a meaningful way. Gave up. That's why you're the Managing Editor.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Feb 25, 2020 12:11:50 GMT -5
Is Law attending more games these days and watching video? Or is he relying on what sources are telling him? He does go to games, but frankly, any good top 100 list is going to HAVE to rely mostly on sources and analysis. No one man can get across the country enough to get a meaningful first-hand sample size on enough players to do otherwise. Even the BA guys are almost all in NC, and they have things like college and draft coverage to deal with. If I may engage in some horn-tooting, this is why I put our coverage of this farm system above literally anyone else's - we're the only site that can get eyes on these guys enough to go mostly first-hand with our reports and rankings, still supplemented by outside reports of course. That's not a dig at anyone else, but just the reality that the beat writers like Alex have to be with the MLB club almost all the time and the national guys have 30 organizations to worry about.
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Post by wcsoxfan on Feb 25, 2020 13:25:17 GMT -5
Is Law attending more games these days and watching video? Or is he relying on what sources are telling him? He does go to games, but frankly, any good top 100 list is going to HAVE to rely mostly on sources and analysis. No one man can get across the country enough to get a meaningful first-hand sample size on enough players to do otherwise. Even the BA guys are almost all in NC, and they have things like college and draft coverage to deal with. If I may engage in some horn-tooting, this is why I put our coverage of this farm system above literally anyone else's - we're the only site that can get eyes on these guys enough to go mostly first-hand with our reports and rankings, still supplemented by outside reports of course. That's not a dig at anyone else, but just the reality that the beat writers like Alex have to be with the MLB club almost all the time and the national guys have 30 organizations to worry about. I ask specifically about Law because he has been criticized in the past (by the BBWAA) for not going to enough games and he seems to have a very busy schedule with other endeavors. This site definitely does a great job of scouting, especially at the upper level. Huge step up from what we had to settle for in the 90s. Only thing missing is Ian working on his tan down there in the Dominican (not a lot of good resources for DSL out there).
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Feb 25, 2020 14:26:12 GMT -5
Understood, and he's definitely not interested in being just a prospect guy or just a draft guy, or even just a baseball guy really. But for example, I'm sure he goes to more games than, say, another prospect writer who joined the Athletic a while ago.
And fwiw, we've kicked around hitting up the DR, especially given the changes in how Fall Instructs is run. Wouldn't be this year, but I could see at least one member of the brass making that trip in the next few years if everything works out perfectly.
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Post by soxin8 on Feb 27, 2020 15:14:48 GMT -5
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jimoh
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Post by jimoh on Feb 27, 2020 15:40:59 GMT -5
With a 70 arm. They say after signing at 5'10" 140 he has gained 20 pounds
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Post by soxin8 on Feb 27, 2020 15:48:51 GMT -5
With a 70 arm. They say after signing at 5'10" 140 he has gained 20 pounds Hit, field and run all above average as well.Pretty exciting. Song with four above average pitches stood out to me also.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Feb 27, 2020 15:53:25 GMT -5
Jim Callis @jimcallismlb A lot of the better redsox prospects are just getting started, and they had a really interesting 2019 DSL contingent that will start making more of an impact on the Top 30 in the near future.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Feb 27, 2020 16:10:19 GMT -5
Bonaci was ranked in the top 20 by BA, FG, and MLB. He and Politi (top 30 for all three outlets mentioned and The Athletic (KLaw)) are two guys we're comparatively way low on who will be priority targets for us next month. Looking at Politi again yesterday, it did seem like we were likely way too low on him. On Bonaci, we basically got screwed by the changes in Fall Instructs, where Ian would've had a great first-hand look at him in the past.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Feb 27, 2020 16:36:09 GMT -5
Probably easiest to just post the tweet...
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Feb 27, 2020 17:00:10 GMT -5
Bonaci was ranked in the top 20 by BA, FG, and MLB. He and Politi (top 30 for all three outlets mentioned and The Athletic (KLaw)) are two guys we're comparatively way low on who will be priority targets for us next month. Looking at Politi again yesterday, it did seem like we were likely way too low on him. On Bonaci, we basically got screwed by the changes in Fall Instructs, where Ian would've had a great first-hand look at him in the past. As someone who has been pretty high on Politi's potential as a 7th or 8th inning guy for a little while now, do these high rankings mean there is some thought he has closer upside, or is this a "longshot at starter with mechanical smoothing" type deal?
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Post by iakovos11 on Feb 27, 2020 17:48:35 GMT -5
Politi was starting at the end of last year and had lots of success. So I think the solid starter upside is what they're looking at.
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iii
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Post by iii on Feb 27, 2020 18:22:45 GMT -5
Understood, and he's definitely not interested in being just a prospect guy or just a draft guy, or even just a baseball guy really. But for example, I'm sure he goes to more games than, say, another prospect writer who joined the Athletic a while ago. And fwiw, we've kicked around hitting up the DR, especially given the changes in how Fall Instructs is run. Wouldn't be this year, but I could see at least one member of the brass making that trip in the next few years if everything works out perfectly. I was lucky enough to visit the Red Sox DR facility 2 years ago, Jesus Alou and the staff there at the facility were very accommodating. I received a complete tour, met and spoke with several coaches and players, including Darwinzon Hernandez who I saw pitch in Greenville the year before. I was very impressed with the young players and enjoyed watching the game with the coaches. For a seamhead like myself, it was the trip of a lifetime and to have Jesus Alou ask me my opinions about the players was, well, surreal to say the least.
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