|
Post by bluechip on Jan 18, 2020 12:19:09 GMT -5
Sam McDowell was interviewed and he mentioned La Russa using a Gatorade sign in centerfield, The next days pitcher was assigned the task of interpreting the catcher's signals off a monitor feed from the camera positioned out there. That was used to control the flashes sent from the advertising sign to the batter. We're way beyond that now. Carried to its logical conclusion you have miniaturized computing devices and wireless networks: the Astros rumored innovation. The question for MLB is a simple one. Maybe this is where the game is going, maybe not, but do you want the La Russa's and Luhnow's of the world dragging you there or do you want to make the decision as an organization? That's why they've come down so hard on everyone in my opinion. They don't want this getting completely out of their control. Introducing powerful technology into any business can and will change it forever. Maybe that should be a group decision, one sanctioned by both ownership and the players. Or not. Well the obvious solution adopted by the NFL is radio transmitters. The bench calls the signal to pitcher and catcher. No hand gestures no sign stealing.
|
|
|
Post by orion09 on Jan 18, 2020 12:30:05 GMT -5
Sam McDowell was interviewed and he mentioned La Russa using a Gatorade sign in centerfield, The next days pitcher was assigned the task of interpreting the catcher's signals off a monitor feed from the camera positioned out there. That was used to control the flashes sent from the advertising sign to the batter. We're way beyond that now. Carried to its logical conclusion you have miniaturized computing devices and wireless networks: the Astros rumored innovation. The question for MLB is a simple one. Maybe this is where the game is going, maybe not, but do you want the La Russa's and Luhnow's of the world dragging you there or do you want to make the decision as an organization? That's why they've come down so hard on everyone in my opinion. They don't want this getting completely out of their control. Introducing powerful technology into any business can and will change it forever. Maybe that should be a group decision, one sanctioned by both ownership and the players. Or not. Well the obvious solution adopted by the NFL is radio transmitters. The bench calls the signal to pitcher and catcher. No hand gestures no sign stealing. If the bench calls signals instead of the catcher, we’ll see analytics departments doing the game-calling. That could be the next big revolution in the game.
|
|
|
Post by voiceofreason on Jan 18, 2020 12:30:51 GMT -5
Interesting thought, then the pitches can be called from the dugout. Revolutionary idea. Tek would become even more valuable as he was known to call a good game.
|
|
|
Post by caseytins on Jan 18, 2020 14:17:28 GMT -5
Sam McDowell was interviewed and he mentioned La Russa using a Gatorade sign in centerfield, The next days pitcher was assigned the task of interpreting the catcher's signals off a monitor feed from the camera positioned out there. That was used to control the flashes sent from the advertising sign to the batter. We're way beyond that now. Carried to its logical conclusion you have miniaturized computing devices and wireless networks: the Astros rumored innovation. The question for MLB is a simple one. Maybe this is where the game is going, maybe not, but do you want the La Russa's and Luhnow's of the world dragging you there or do you want to make the decision as an organization? That's why they've come down so hard on everyone in my opinion. They don't want this getting completely out of their control. Introducing powerful technology into any business can and will change it forever. Maybe that should be a group decision, one sanctioned by both ownership and the players. Or not. Well the obvious solution adopted by the NFL is radio transmitters. The bench calls the signal to pitcher and catcher. No hand gestures no sign stealing. This will also help speed up the game. Less visits to the mound, etc. I've been in favor of using earpieces for the catcher and pitcher for years. I don't know if we need to involve the bench/dugout, but perhaps.
|
|
|
Post by voiceofreason on Jan 18, 2020 16:15:47 GMT -5
Well the obvious solution adopted by the NFL is radio transmitters. The bench calls the signal to pitcher and catcher. No hand gestures no sign stealing. If the bench calls signals instead of the catcher, we’ll see analytics departments doing the game-calling. That could be the next big revolution in the game. You and I virtually wrote the same thing at the same time, revolutionary.
|
|
|
Post by p23w on Jan 18, 2020 19:03:18 GMT -5
So the "answer " to "tech" sign stealing is to introduce/mandate more tech? Ludicrous to the extreme.
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Jan 18, 2020 19:09:08 GMT -5
So the "answer " to "tech" sign stealing is to introduce/mandate more tech? Ludicrous to the extreme. Putting everyone on the same exact level without the possibility of stealing without hacking hopefully very secure devices is the only answer, not a ludicrous one.
|
|
|
Post by p23w on Jan 18, 2020 19:19:58 GMT -5
So the "answer " to "tech" sign stealing is to introduce/mandate more tech? Ludicrous to the extreme. Putting everyone on the same exact level without the possibility of stealing without hacking hopefully very secure devices is the only answer, not a ludicrous one. If we have learned anything about "secure devices" and "encryption", is that is can and will be "hacked". I will burn all my Red Sox memorabilia and find another activity to follow if MLB goes this route.
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Jan 18, 2020 21:14:07 GMT -5
Putting everyone on the same exact level without the possibility of stealing without hacking hopefully very secure devices is the only answer, not a ludicrous one. If we have learned anything about "secure devices" and "encryption", is that is can and will be "hacked". I will burn all my Red Sox memorabilia and find another activity to follow if MLB goes this route. Tell that to the government as they continue to ask for Apple to crack their encrypted iPhones over and over and over again. The thing is, if they do NOT do this, teams will always be stealing manual visible signs.
|
|
mobaz
Veteran
Posts: 2,754
|
Post by mobaz on Jan 18, 2020 21:25:07 GMT -5
It's why the NFL went to green dots for a defensive player and a Qb so calls could go direct to one helmet. Cut out the middleman and signs and (yes) sideline video.
|
|
|
Post by redsoxfan2 on Jan 18, 2020 22:33:49 GMT -5
This is a stupid question, but if the pitcher and catcher have a mic/ear piece, wouldn't the batter hear what the call was?
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on Jan 19, 2020 0:43:48 GMT -5
This is a stupid question, but if the pitcher and catcher have a mic/ear piece, wouldn't the batter hear what the call was? My thoughts exactly, how does a catcher call in signs verbally to the pitcher without him hearing it. You could have the bench do it, but that is a huge change. Nobody has a better understanding of the pitches and the way they are moving than the catcher.
|
|
|
Post by Don Caballero on Jan 19, 2020 0:55:25 GMT -5
My thoughts exactly, how does a catcher call in signs verbally to the pitcher without him hearing it. You could have the bench do it, but that is a huge change. Nobody has a better understanding of the pitches and the way they are moving than the catcher. I think the only real solution would be to have an offensive coordinator kind of guy that's sitting in a box and calling pitches to both the catcher and pitcher. Otherwise if people want to intercept that, they will.
|
|
|
Post by bluechip on Jan 19, 2020 8:34:53 GMT -5
This is a stupid question, but if the pitcher and catcher have a mic/ear piece, wouldn't the batter hear what the call was? My thoughts exactly, how does a catcher call in signs verbally to the pitcher without him hearing it. You could have the bench do it, but that is a huge change. Nobody has a better understanding of the pitches and the way they are moving than the catcher. That’s why you need the bench to call pitches. Because the batter can hear what the catcher says. And some benches have been calling signs for some pitchers/ catchers for years. Yeah. You take away some control from the pitcher and catcher, but so what? For decades in football the QB called the plays. Then coaches started calling plays from sidelines via hand signals. Then (due to sign stealing) you got radio transmitters in helmets.
|
|
|
Post by voiceofreason on Jan 19, 2020 8:48:22 GMT -5
My thoughts exactly, how does a catcher call in signs verbally to the pitcher without him hearing it. You could have the bench do it, but that is a huge change. Nobody has a better understanding of the pitches and the way they are moving than the catcher. I think the only real solution would be to have an offensive coordinator kind of guy that's sitting in a box and calling pitches to both the catcher and pitcher. Otherwise if people want to intercept that, they will. I was thinking the same thing that is why it coming from the dugout makes more sense.
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Jan 19, 2020 9:43:54 GMT -5
This is a stupid question, but if the pitcher and catcher have a mic/ear piece, wouldn't the batter hear what the call was? I don't think it's going to be an audible device.
|
|
|
Post by orion09 on Jan 19, 2020 9:47:23 GMT -5
It could be a little box with indicator lights set into the pitcher’s mound. The playcall could come from a corresponding box in the dugout, or on the inside of the catcher’s wrist, etc.
Either way, it could speed the game up by ~5 seconds per pitch, which would be a huge win for the sport.
|
|
|
Post by p23w on Jan 19, 2020 10:09:41 GMT -5
So the "analysts" call the game..... it's the 6th inning, 3rd time through the order is up. The analysts are computing at top speed. The pitcher in the meantime has the beginnings of a blister. The catcher is aware that the pitcher has lost some "bite" on his breaking ball. The analyst calls for a curve ball. The catcher looks to the dugout (analysts box) and shakes his head. Does the "analyst" go to plan B, or back to what his number crunching calls for? Who makes the call? How about the scenario where the catcher CAN ONLY call for the pitch the analyst call for? The catcher calls for the pitch AND the pitcher shakes him off. Forget the analytics DURING the game. There are variables that are fluid and cannot be calculated during game situations. You already see this with defensive alignments. Hitters can adjust in real time to shifts... or not. Some can/will, others won't.
This entire "concept" is beyond ludicrous all the way to mental masturbation performed by wanna-bees. I'm done with this stupidity.
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Jan 19, 2020 10:33:41 GMT -5
So the "analysts" call the game..... it's the 6th inning, 3rd time through the order is up. The analysts are computing at top speed. The pitcher in the meantime has the beginnings of a blister. The catcher is aware that the pitcher has lost some "bite" on his breaking ball. The analyst calls for a curve ball. The catcher looks to the dugout (analysts box) and shakes his head. Does the "analyst" go to plan B, or back to what his number crunching calls for? Who makes the call? How about the scenario where the catcher CAN ONLY call for the pitch the analyst call for? The catcher calls for the pitch AND the pitcher shakes him off. Forget the analytics DURING the game. There are variables that are fluid and cannot be calculated during game situations. You already see this with defensive alignments. Hitters can adjust in real time to shifts... or not. Some can/will, others won't. This entire "concept" is beyond ludicrous all the way to mental masturbation performed by wanna-bees. I'm done with this stupidity. So the answer to some really specific situation that is barely a problem is to never try anything new and continue letting some teams steal manual visible pitch signs and letting the teams who are better at it and more willing to cheat to have huge advantages over other teams? It doesn't have to be immediately perfect and they are allowed to improve it over time. The pitch calling from the dugout isn't even decided yet. This is one strange hill to die on. Bye.
|
|
|
Post by fenwaythehardway on Jan 19, 2020 10:38:55 GMT -5
Yeah. You take away some control from the pitcher and catcher, but so what? For decades in football the QB called the plays. Then coaches started calling plays from sidelines via hand signals. Then (due to sign stealing) you got radio transmitters in helmets. I'm not necessarily saying it's a bad thing, but we are kind of on the verge of completely redefining what a catcher is. Pitch calling, gone. Framing/receiving? Robo zone, won't matter. Can't visit the pitcher on the mound... 75% of what these guys have historically done defensively and as a handler for the pitcher is about to be gone. It's going to become a much more like 1B where there are some defensive skills you care about but most of what determines the player's value is their offense. Again, I don't know if this is bad, but it's at least worth thinking about.
|
|
|
Post by fenwaythehardway on Jan 19, 2020 10:48:24 GMT -5
So the "analysts" call the game..... it's the 6th inning, 3rd time through the order is up. The analysts are computing at top speed. The pitcher in the meantime has the beginnings of a blister. The catcher is aware that the pitcher has lost some "bite" on his breaking ball. The analyst calls for a curve ball. The catcher looks to the dugout (analysts box) and shakes his head. Does the "analyst" go to plan B, or back to what his number crunching calls for? Who makes the call? How about the scenario where the catcher CAN ONLY call for the pitch the analyst call for? The catcher calls for the pitch AND the pitcher shakes him off. Forget the analytics DURING the game. There are variables that are fluid and cannot be calculated during game situations. You already see this with defensive alignments. Hitters can adjust in real time to shifts... or not. Some can/will, others won't. This entire "concept" is beyond ludicrous all the way to mental masturbation performed by wanna-bees. I'm done with this stupidity. The guy who brought modern pitching analytics to the Red Sox is former major league pitcher Brian Bannister, fyi.
|
|
|
Post by incandenza on Jan 19, 2020 11:34:36 GMT -5
I'm not sure I'm following the step in this conversation where we go from "the catcher will call pitches with a button rather than hand signals" to "analytics departments will call pitches from the dugout and the game will be forever changed." (I'm pretty sure the technology of, uh, using your hands to communicate already allowed pitches to be called from the dugout.)
|
|
|
Post by voiceofreason on Jan 19, 2020 12:50:33 GMT -5
It's not as if pitches haven't been called from the dugout before guys!! Stop being so melodramatic about it.
|
|
|
Post by James Dunne on Jan 19, 2020 13:49:08 GMT -5
Yeah. You take away some control from the pitcher and catcher, but so what? For decades in football the QB called the plays. Then coaches started calling plays from sidelines via hand signals. Then (due to sign stealing) you got radio transmitters in helmets. I'm not necessarily saying it's a bad thing, but we are kind of on the verge of completely redefining what a catcher is. Pitch calling, gone. Framing/receiving? Robo zone, won't matter. Can't visit the pitcher on the mound... 75% of what these guys have historically done defensively and as a handler for the pitcher is about to be gone. It's going to become a much more like 1B where there are some defensive skills you care about but most of what determines the player's value is their offense. Again, I don't know if this is bad, but it's at least worth thinking about. It also should be noted that base stealing would become harder, because catchers wouldn't need to worry about stealing the strike call while receiving in a way that gets them ready to throw. Without framing, the catcher can basically get as close to throwing position as he can so long as it isn't interference.
|
|
|
Post by fenwaythehardway on Jan 19, 2020 14:33:14 GMT -5
It also should be noted that base stealing would become harder, because catchers wouldn't need to worry about stealing the strike call while receiving in a way that gets them ready to throw. Without framing, the catcher can basically get as close to throwing position as he can so long as it isn't interference. MLB is also playing around with ways to encourage more stolen bases, so... does Ivan Rodriguez have a kid?
|
|