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Mookie Betts traded as part of a three-team deal
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Post by Ryanod1 on Feb 13, 2020 19:41:56 GMT -5
Also would have been tougher for fans to stomach. I don't really think so. They were struggling to keep pace with the second Wild Card. The division was out of reach and the WC1 wasn't very realistic. They didn't do anything to fix the warts on the team and I think Sale was hurt despite catching back up. They weren't beating good teams outside of the Rays on that first homestead before losing the next 4 or 5 before the deadline. Outside of this board, there weren't many believers in that team. Then again, I wrote them off after 2 weeks. Just a roundabout way of talking about how this was completely botched by not making this move during the deadline. I would understand it if they traded for pieces to reinforce their roster, but the indecision was inexusable. Its so hard to tell. So many would be saying that we didn't even try/want to sign him, get mad about a full year and a half lost of a generational talent, and so on. Years like last are so tough because they were borderline playoffs. So when it came to the deadline we could have gone either way. Smart fans can see when a team is overachieving, and won't get anywhere but a lot of other fans don't. To be perfectly honest I am pretty happy it happened now...reason being I wouldn't want to see what a DD return looks like. Its hard for me to believe that he would have landed any prospects as a return haha.
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on Feb 14, 2020 6:15:57 GMT -5
My wife got me a Mookie Betts ornament for valentines day, because she is the best. It will hang proudly with my Gronk ornament in the "gone too soon but not forgotten" wing of the tree each year.
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ericmvan
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Supposed to be working on something more important
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Post by ericmvan on Feb 14, 2020 7:33:51 GMT -5
The notion that they should have traded Mookie at the deadline is ludicrous, and for two further reasons than the ones already given.
First of all, the only reason they weren't in control of the WC already was that they'd gone from being one of the very best clutch teams in MLB in 2018, to one of the worst (1st to 29th, or something like that). Punting on the season at that point is not only telling your players that you don't think they're good enough to win, it's telling them that you think they'll continue to be chokers.
Second, the only reason the Dodgers gave us the package they just did is because they failed to win the WS again. Getting two whole months more out of Mookie adds more theoretical valuable, but it's more than offset by the fact that they went another year without winning it all with the current core. As your opportunities dwindle, you are willing to pay a progressively higher price to achieve the only goal you have.
One of Theo's rules of thumb was "avoid the urge to build an uber-team." The Dodgers just broke that rule. If they don't win the WS this year and don't re-sign Mookie, the trade will be a disaster for them. And the odds are against both of those things. Given the team they had last year, and how much of a notorious crapshoot the post-season is, had they made the trade they just did last July 31, they would have been mocked and called insane.
The Dodgers won 106 games. Without Mookie. What if we'd mortgaged the farm at the deadline in 2018, to rent a superstar upgrade at 2B or 1B, after which it would have been obvious that we would have won it all without him? That's what you're talking about here.
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Feb 14, 2020 8:59:26 GMT -5
I would say that the Dodgers are the clear favorite to win it all. If Mookie leaves but Price puts up a Cy Young caliber performance then the deal is hardly a disaster. Still would be a win for LA because they have a top starter and Graderol. The Dodgers needed Price more than Mookie Betts. My hope is that the Sox pony up for Mookie in the offseason and that their only hesitation was the repeater luxury tax. Signing a guy like Springer over Mookie would be a huge mistake.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Feb 14, 2020 9:35:20 GMT -5
]One of Theo's rules of thumb was "avoid the urge to build an uber-team." The Dodgers just broke that rule. If they don't win the WS this year and don't re-sign Mookie, the trade will be a disaster for them. And the odds are against both of those things. Given the team they had last year, and how much of a notorious crapshoot the post-season is, had they made the trade they just did last July 31, they would have been mocked and called insane. The thing is though, the Dodgers have built a super team without the downside. If the trade totally bombs out on them, they don't win the World Series, Mookie is more ordinary out of Boston, Price is toast, Verdugo develops, Downs hits his ceiling... they're still totally fine. Their window isn't closing, their core is still excellent and they can try for Lindor next year. The whole point, one would think, of all this precious "financial flexibility" is that you have the flexibility to do something that increases your chances of winning or is otherwise important to your franchise (extending Kershaw for example) even it isn't a good move on a strict value basis.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Feb 14, 2020 9:44:38 GMT -5
I would say that the Dodgers are the clear favorite to win it all. If Mookie leaves but Price puts up a Cy Young caliber performance then the deal is hardly a disaster. Still would be a win for LA because they have a top starter and Graderol. The Dodgers needed Price more than Mookie Betts. My hope is that the Sox pony up for Mookie in the offseason and that their only hesitation was the repeater luxury tax. Signing a guy like Springer over Mookie would be a huge mistake. We don’t know what their AAVs will be. For all we know Springer and next year’s FA version of Carlie Morton will combine for the same price tag as Mookie. We’re going to have multiple holes to fill. It’s about investing the payroll well, not necessarily doing everything you can to sign the very best player.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 14, 2020 12:05:05 GMT -5
Many of the trades that DD was "good at" had to be made precisely because he didn't anticipate needing the depth when he could have gotten it for free or next to nothing. They've had so many below replacement level players who played way too many games because of a lack of other options. It's hard to say that he got fleeced on any trade or even lost a lot of them, but he gave up way too much over way too short of a time and that's why he's no longer around. I don't get this at all, teams that contend every year will make trades most years. Theo makes a ton of trades during the season. Baseball players go up and down unlike any other sport. You trade for Nunez, Pearce, and Eovaldi because they are having great seasons. Then you resign them and everyone of them fall off a cliff. I'd rather build a bullpen like we did last year and then trade for a guy if needed than give out three and four year deals at big money. No GM can build a team with depth year in and year out unless you have a great farm system. Which brings up to the real issue we can't develop starting pitchers. Not one of the starters he traded away would have helped last year. The two in the Majors Anderson and Allen were getting rocked in the NL. He brought in three of them on minor league deals, but they didn't workout. Which is normally the case. He certainly deserves some blame for this, yet wasn't most of Ben's team kept on? The bigger issue is the way we added players under past GMs are now gone. No more getting tons of picks for letting free agents walk, no more over paying draft picks or international guys. That loaded system Ben left DD has yet to produce one good starter, the Dodgers seem to turn out one every year. So maybe Bloom can bring in the right guys to adjust how we add talent, because unless he builds a top ten system with major talent in the majors you will never have all the depth you need. Example Bloom just talked about how he's spent all off-season looking for starting pitching depth and is having trouble finding it. You can blame DD all you want, but you can't easily find starting pitching depth. You can bring in a bunch of free agents, but that is zero guarantee that you actually find real depth. The one thing I will blame DD for is not trying to trade for it. That was his one big issue, he was always get the best guy available. Never making a trade for a guy like Allen who the Padres traded away. Yet that also isn't easy, Bloom couldn't even pry one away from the Dodgers who have like nine starters. Overall I like what Bloom as done, but do you really look at this team and think we won't have one issue with depth when the season starts? The big depth issue that killed DD last year is more of an issue this year. We praise Bloom for Peraza, Moreland and Pillar, but they could easily turn into Nunez and Pearce. If you're going to blame DD, why don't we also blame Theo?
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 14, 2020 13:55:51 GMT -5
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Feb 14, 2020 14:46:17 GMT -5
His Chapman trade was/is idiotic
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Post by manfred on Feb 14, 2020 15:10:54 GMT -5
Bellinger’s truth bomb makes me think more about this from the Dodgers’s side. I don’t see them doing it if they had beat the Astros... so if they don’t win it all this year and Mookie leaves.... well, I’d be apoplectic if I was a Dodgers fan.
I have come around to stripping the Astros title. Leave it vacant. I’d strip Altuve, too. Otherwise, it is like the steroids days when the punishments cane so late or mildly that it was worth risking getting caught.
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Post by jimed14 on Feb 14, 2020 17:13:59 GMT -5
Many of the trades that DD was "good at" had to be made precisely because he didn't anticipate needing the depth when he could have gotten it for free or next to nothing. They've had so many below replacement level players who played way too many games because of a lack of other options. It's hard to say that he got fleeced on any trade or even lost a lot of them, but he gave up way too much over way too short of a time and that's why he's no longer around. I don't get this at all, teams that contend every year will make trades most years. Theo makes a ton of trades during the season. Baseball players go up and down unlike any other sport. You trade for Nunez, Pearce, and Eovaldi because they are having great seasons. Then you resign them and everyone of them fall off a cliff. I'd rather build a bullpen like we did last year and then trade for a guy if needed than give out three and four year deals at big money. No GM can build a team with depth year in and year out unless you have a great farm system. Which brings up to the real issue we can't develop starting pitchers. Not one of the starters he traded away would have helped last year. The two in the Majors Anderson and Allen were getting rocked in the NL. He brought in three of them on minor league deals, but they didn't workout. Which is normally the case. He certainly deserves some blame for this, yet wasn't most of Ben's team kept on? The bigger issue is the way we added players under past GMs are now gone. No more getting tons of picks for letting free agents walk, no more over paying draft picks or international guys. That loaded system Ben left DD has yet to produce one good starter, the Dodgers seem to turn out one every year. So maybe Bloom can bring in the right guys to adjust how we add talent, because unless he builds a top ten system with major talent in the majors you will never have all the depth you need. Example Bloom just talked about how he's spent all off-season looking for starting pitching depth and is having trouble finding it. You can blame DD all you want, but you can't easily find starting pitching depth. You can bring in a bunch of free agents, but that is zero guarantee that you actually find real depth. The one thing I will blame DD for is not trying to trade for it. That was his one big issue, he was always get the best guy available. Never making a trade for a guy like Allen who the Padres traded away. Yet that also isn't easy, Bloom couldn't even pry one away from the Dodgers who have like nine starters. Overall I like what Bloom as done, but do you really look at this team and think we won't have one issue with depth when the season starts? The big depth issue that killed DD last year is more of an issue this year. We praise Bloom for Peraza, Moreland and Pillar, but they could easily turn into Nunez and Pearce. If you're going to blame DD, why don't we also blame Theo? Well, they also have Lin, Hernandez, Arauz, Chavis, Chatham and maybe even Downs if he rakes as 2B options if Peraza isn't cutting it. They have Chavis, Dalbec, Longhi as options to Moreland (plus Ockimey and Ryder Jones) and they have Puello as an option for Pillar. They don't have Sam Travis, Nunez, Gorkys Hernandez and Chris Owings and that's it. Bloom got Johnson through waivers so now he's AAA emergency depth instead of being relied on from day 1. Brewer, Ozich, Poyner, Mazza, Matt Hall, Jeff Springs are all in AAA and ready to be called up if anyone gets hurt or is ineffective. Bloom didn't acquire all of these guys, but he has added a lot of them who have pitched in the majors and have upside. There are many more legitimate options available now than there has been in years. It seems like DD was terrible at identifying replacement level players to round out the roster and that's why guys like Travis and Nunez put up a lot of negative WAR because they got way too much playing time due to a lack of other options.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Feb 15, 2020 8:29:55 GMT -5
His Chapman trade was/is idiotic You mean the Chapman trade in the year the Cubs won their first World Series in a gazillion ions or are you referring to a different Chapman trade ?
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Post by p23w on Feb 15, 2020 11:57:30 GMT -5
The only silver lining to the Mookie/Price trade to the Dodgers for 2020 is when Mookie is the WS MVP and Price does his Schilling post season impression...again. (assuming the NYY win 100+ games again and become the first team in MLB history to have 4 consecutive 100 win games seasons and no World Championship).
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Feb 15, 2020 12:09:28 GMT -5
The only silver lining to the Mookie/Price trade to the Dodgers for 2020 is when Mookie is the WS MVP and Price does his Schilling post season impression...again. (assuming the NYY win 100+ games again and become the first team in MLB history to have 4 consecutive 100 win games seasons and no World Championship). Because Mookie and Price have such long post-season performance track record? I'm not one to use October stats for anything more than a footnote, but if we want to go down the rabbit hole of hyperbole... What will you say if Mookie pulls a hamstring and is hurt/under performing all year because of it? Literally trading for 1 year of any player comes with enormous risk. It's not impossible (though highly unlikely) Verdugo has a better season. What will you say if the 2021 Red Sox has Jeter Downs, Verdugo, and Mookie Betts?
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Feb 15, 2020 12:50:59 GMT -5
His Chapman trade was/is idiotic You mean the Chapman trade in the year the Cubs won their first World Series in a gazillion ions or are you referring to a different Chapman trade ? He had a 3.5 ERA in those playoffs, and I personally don’t agree with mortgaging your future like that. The difference between Chapman and the 2nd best option on the trade market wasn’t worth giving up Torres. Good for the Cubs for winning the WS, but that trade wasn’t the reason why they won it, and it’s hurting them now.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Feb 15, 2020 12:58:28 GMT -5
You mean the Chapman trade in the year the Cubs won their first World Series in a gazillion ions or are you referring to a different Chapman trade ? He had a 3.5 ERA in those playoffs, and I personally don’t agree with mortgaging your future like that. The difference between Chapman and the 2nd best option on the trade market wasn’t worth giving up Torres. Good for the Cubs for winning the WS, but that trade wasn’t the reason why they won it, and it’s hurting them now. I agree to an extent. They still won. It's why I wouldn't undo Buttrey for Kinsler or even the Tyler Thornburg trade. You could theoretically have a better player on the field who has a ball go through their legs or something that disrupts the chemistry. Despite how ugly the trade was, they won and that's all you can ask for. Now, if they didn't, that would be the worst trade of Theo's career.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Feb 15, 2020 13:46:37 GMT -5
He had a 3.5 ERA in those playoffs, and I personally don’t agree with mortgaging your future like that. The difference between Chapman and the 2nd best option on the trade market wasn’t worth giving up Torres. Good for the Cubs for winning the WS, but that trade wasn’t the reason why they won it, and it’s hurting them now. I agree to an extent. They still won. It's why I wouldn't undo Buttrey for Kinsler or even the Tyler Thornburg trade. You could theoretically have a better player on the field who has a ball go through their legs or something that disrupts the chemistry. Despite how ugly the trade was, they won and that's all you can ask for. Now, if they didn't, that would be the worst trade of Theo's career. Kinsler only hurt us and Buttrey ended up being valuable, but at the time of the trade Kinsler was having a decent year so I got it. Even his glove was an issue in the playoffs though. Hindsight is 20/20 but that’s one we’d definitely take back IMO
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Feb 15, 2020 13:54:18 GMT -5
I agree to an extent. They still won. It's why I wouldn't undo Buttrey for Kinsler or even the Tyler Thornburg trade. You could theoretically have a better player on the field who has a ball go through their legs or something that disrupts the chemistry. Despite how ugly the trade was, they won and that's all you can ask for. Now, if they didn't, that would be the worst trade of Theo's career. Kinsler only hurt us and Buttrey ended up being valuable, but at the time of the trade Kinsler was having a decent year so I got it. Even his glove was an issue in the playoffs though. Hindsight is 20/20 but that’s one we’d definitely take back IMO Maybe I just have some backwards thinking. If the Bruins won game 7 I'd be ok with the Backes signing. I guess it's because if I had a time machine, I wouldn't touch anything that involved a championship team and that's really my point. On paper, yes, they lost the Buttrey trade just like the Cubs "lost" the Chapman trade. I think I was his biggest fan too that I even called a station to mention him as a backend option and got laughed off the radio for continuing this perpetuation of unknown AAA guys instead of getting a proven commodity.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Feb 15, 2020 14:33:07 GMT -5
Kinsler only hurt us and Buttrey ended up being valuable, but at the time of the trade Kinsler was having a decent year so I got it. Even his glove was an issue in the playoffs though. Hindsight is 20/20 but that’s one we’d definitely take back IMO Maybe I just have some backwards thinking. If the Bruins won game 7 I'd be ok with the Backes signing. I guess it's because if I had a time machine, I wouldn't touch anything that involved a championship team and that's really my point. On paper, yes, they lost the Buttrey trade just like the Cubs "lost" the Chapman trade. I think I was his biggest fan too that I even called a station to mention him as a backend option and got laughed off the radio for continuing this perpetuation of unknown AAA guys instead of getting a proven commodity. The Buttrey trade was still fairly minor. Buttrey is a solid reliever but I’m not sure he’s a closer. Nowhere near giving up Torres obviously
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Feb 15, 2020 14:48:58 GMT -5
Maybe I just have some backwards thinking. If the Bruins won game 7 I'd be ok with the Backes signing. I guess it's because if I had a time machine, I wouldn't touch anything that involved a championship team and that's really my point. On paper, yes, they lost the Buttrey trade just like the Cubs "lost" the Chapman trade. I think I was his biggest fan too that I even called a station to mention him as a backend option and got laughed off the radio for continuing this perpetuation of unknown AAA guys instead of getting a proven commodity. The Buttrey trade was still fairly minor. Buttrey is a solid reliever but I’m not sure he’s a closer. Nowhere near giving up Torres obviously Very true, but at least the Cubs got something of value whereas Kinsler was completely useless. I liked getting Kinsler at the time, but he didn't produce.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 15, 2020 15:10:40 GMT -5
Jimed14- You litterally just made my point for me, you act like Ryder Jones and Nick Longhi are upgrades over Sam Travis yet there is zero proof of that. Jones is .566 ops in the majors and -1.2 bwar in 172 ABs, .722 OPS in minors. Nick Longhi never made the majors, .736 OPS in minors. Sam Travis had a .771 OPS in minors, .659 ops in majors, -1.3 bwar in 256 ABs.
Arauz is going into his age 21 season, only 28 games above A ball, with a .680 OPS he isn't depth. Maybe he is in the future, but there is zero proof of that now.
I like Puello.
You pick on Chris Owings but the guys has 2.3 bwar in the majors. 1.5 in 2016, .8 in 2017, then a down year in 2018. That was a solid move to bet on him bouncing back.
Gorky Hernandez was coming off a .5 bwar season in the majors in 2018.
Tony Renda has a career minor league line of .289 .356 .737, coming off a good year in 2018.
Maybe they workout better, yet there is zero proof that we upgraded. Espically because Holt is gone and he was a very good player. You are just using hindsight because those guys weren't good and acting like the new guys have to be better.
I just find it funny because no one bitched about depth at 2B before the start of 2019. You had Nunez, Holt, Lin, and Hernandez. While hoping Pedroia could come back. 1B you had Moreland, Pearce, then Chavis, Dalbec and Travis in the minors.
Yet it's funny because none of that killed us, our starting pitching depth did and we are currently a lot worse off than last year. We removed Price and Porcello, while adding Perez. Bloom litterally admitted he's been looking for it all off-season a few days ago.
I'm not doing this to trash Bloom either, overall I'm rather happy with what he has done. Yet as the Theo article I posted showed it's a fantasy that good GMs can pick up all depth needed every year for nothing and not have to make trades.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 15, 2020 15:18:58 GMT -5
The Buttrey trade was still fairly minor. Buttrey is a solid reliever but I’m not sure he’s a closer. Nowhere near giving up Torres obviously Very true, but at least the Cubs got something of value whereas Kinsler was completely useless. I liked getting Kinsler at the time, but he didn't produce. I look at it like this, in four games against the Yankees in the postseason he hit .308 .357 .819, giving you four hits, 3 runs, 2 RBI and he played much better D than Nunez. So he certainly added some value and helped us.
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Post by jimed14 on Feb 15, 2020 16:45:17 GMT -5
Jimed14- You litterally just made my point for me, you act like Ryder Jones and Nick Longhi are upgrades over Sam Travis yet there is zero proof of that. Jones is .566 ops in the majors and -1.2 bwar in 172 ABs, .722 OPS in minors. Nick Longhi never made the majors, .736 OPS in minors. Sam Travis had a .771 OPS in minors, .659 ops in majors, -1.3 bwar in 256 ABs. Arauz is going into his age 21 season, only 28 games above A ball, with a .680 OPS he isn't depth. Maybe he is in the future, but there is zero proof of that now. I like Puello. You pick on Chris Owings but the guys has 2.3 bwar in the majors. 1.5 in 2016, .8 in 2017, then a down year in 2018. That was a solid move to bet on him bouncing back. Gorky Hernandez was coming off a .5 bwar season in the majors in 2018. Tony Renda has a career minor league line of .289 .356 .737, coming off a good year in 2018. Maybe they workout better, yet there is zero proof that we upgraded. Espically because Holt is gone and he was a very good player. You are just using hindsight because those guys weren't good and acting like the new guys have to be better. I just find it funny because no one bitched about depth at 2B before the start of 2019. You had Nunez, Holt, Lin, and Hernandez. While hoping Pedroia could come back. 1B you had Moreland, Pearce, then Chavis, Dalbec and Travis in the minors. Yet it's funny because none of that killed us, our starting pitching depth did and we are currently a lot worse off than last year. We removed Price and Porcello, while adding Perez. Bloom litterally admitted he's been looking for it all off-season a few days ago. I'm not doing this to trash Bloom either, overall I'm rather happy with what he has done. Yet as the Theo article I posted showed it's a fantasy that good GMs can pick up all depth needed every year for nothing and not have to make trades. I'm not acting like Ryder Jones and Nick Longhi are upgrades over Sam Travis. I'm acting like there are now 5-6 options everywhere instead of 1. The Red Sox played the last several seasons without a backup CF/RF. They now have two of them. They have been lucky as hell that they haven't had to deal with an injury of any length to Mookie, JBJ or Xander because they had no real backups.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 11, 2021 8:52:35 GMT -5
The narrative that Bloom traded 60 games of Betts for Verdugo, Downs and Wong is just wrong. Covid hit after that trade. If you want to use that narrative Covid also got Betts to sign a deal before free agency, something he was totally against. Judging the trade versus judging the GM is two totally different things. I feel a bunch of you are giving Bloom credit because he had the power to trade Betts. I like the trade, yeah it's very good value. Yet you traded Mookie Betts, the second best player in Baseball. So for me I compare that to what other GMs could have done. What could DD have done for example? If DD gets Verdugo and Downs, was Bloom that much better? I feel it's fair to say almost every GM is taking Verdugo as the #1 piece. That's the way GMs draw it up, former high end prospect that already had a bunch of MLB success to replace your star player. A Verdugo, Downs, Ferguson and maybe another young prospect rumor was flying around for a good amount of time. He almost messed that up trying to get crazy creative to get the pitcher he wanted. Luckily they backed out of that deal and you get Verdugo, Downs and Wong. He did a decent job playing the Padres off of the Dodgers, yet I except any good GM would do that when both had interest. Are we giving Bloom credit because the Dodgers were desperate? For me that's just perfect timing, that's good luck for him. Not something he did and he almost messed it up. He needed an MRI to tell him what all the scouts were saying. A big part of this was also a bunch of posters thinking you'd get nothing for one year of Betts. Yet that narrative was always crazy. Players like Betts almost never get traded in their primes. You were always going to get more than a lot of people expected. If Goldschmidt gets you two former top 100s major league ready, Betts was always getting you a lot more. www.si.com/mlb/2018/12/21/ldodgers-reds-trade-yasiel-puig-matt-kemp-homer-bailey-bryce-harper#:~:text=Dodgers%20outfielders%20Yasiel%20Puig%20and%20Matt%20Kemp%2C%20catcher,to%20the%20Cincinnati%20Reds%2C%20the%20team%20announced%20Friday. That Dodgers Reds trade is HR trade, the main piece is Puig and they got Downs/Gray! I'm not trying to bash Bloom either, I like what he's done. He's just getting so much credit because he was allowed to trade Betts. Unless you think that Betts trade is all him and a guy like DD can't get that package. Yet that's a DD special in my book. He might not get Wong. He would have heard Verdugo/Downs and jumped on it likely, not caring about a third piece. Add Caleb Ferguson to the list of Dodgers pitchers to have TJ surgery. Unreal three good young pitchers in under a year.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on May 11, 2021 9:21:58 GMT -5
The narrative that Bloom traded 60 games of Betts for Verdugo, Downs and Wong is just wrong. Covid hit after that trade. If you want to use that narrative Covid also got Betts to sign a deal before free agency, something he was totally against. Judging the trade versus judging the GM is two totally different things. I feel a bunch of you are giving Bloom credit because he had the power to trade Betts. I like the trade, yeah it's very good value. Yet you traded Mookie Betts, the second best player in Baseball. So for me I compare that to what other GMs could have done. What could DD have done for example? If DD gets Verdugo and Downs, was Bloom that much better? I feel it's fair to say almost every GM is taking Verdugo as the #1 piece. That's the way GMs draw it up, former high end prospect that already had a bunch of MLB success to replace your star player. A Verdugo, Downs, Ferguson and maybe another young prospect rumor was flying around for a good amount of time. He almost messed that up trying to get crazy creative to get the pitcher he wanted. Luckily they backed out of that deal and you get Verdugo, Downs and Wong. He did a decent job playing the Padres off of the Dodgers, yet I except any good GM would do that when both had interest. Are we giving Bloom credit because the Dodgers were desperate? For me that's just perfect timing, that's good luck for him. Not something he did and he almost messed it up. He needed an MRI to tell him what all the scouts were saying. A big part of this was also a bunch of posters thinking you'd get nothing for one year of Betts. Yet that narrative was always crazy. Players like Betts almost never get traded in their primes. You were always going to get more than a lot of people expected. If Goldschmidt gets you two former top 100s major league ready, Betts was always getting you a lot more. www.si.com/mlb/2018/12/21/ldodgers-reds-trade-yasiel-puig-matt-kemp-homer-bailey-bryce-harper#:~:text=Dodgers%20outfielders%20Yasiel%20Puig%20and%20Matt%20Kemp%2C%20catcher,to%20the%20Cincinnati%20Reds%2C%20the%20team%20announced%20Friday. That Dodgers Reds trade is HR trade, the main piece is Puig and they got Downs/Gray! I'm not trying to bash Bloom either, I like what he's done. He's just getting so much credit because he was allowed to trade Betts. Unless you think that Betts trade is all him and a guy like DD can't get that package. Yet that's a DD special in my book. He might not get Wong. He would have heard Verdugo/Downs and jumped on it likely, not caring about a third piece. Add Caleb Ferguson to the list of Dodgers pitchers to have TJ surgery. Unreal three good young pitchers in under a year. I think it was kind of obvious when Mookie was here and you're scrolling through the teams that could acquire Mookie, that the Dodgers stood out and it was also obvious that the trade would start with Alex Verdugo. It was so obvious any idiot could figure that out. If you don't believe me go through my posts from when the talk of a theoretical Mookie trade was first being discussed. You'll see I mentioned Alex Verdugo as a guy that would be the starting point of the deal - and if you do see that post, I have to ask, do you have that much time on your hands you actually looked up my old posts?! My point was it was so obvious that the Dodgers would be the team and Verdugo would be the guy. I think the with Bloom it's less credit for the trade and more credit for the chutzpah to pull off the deal. Theo got a lot of courage points for trading an icon in Nomar who was toward the end of the line as anybody watching the team could clearly see, and for two guys batting .246, but if you stopped looking at Nomar as a .372 hitter and saw him for what he was at that point, a guy who could still hit, but wasn't what he once was, and really could no longer be counted on to play every day or play a competent SS, it made sense. With Mookie, you had a generational player very much in his prime that virtually everybody wanted extended. I think that's even harder to trade, but once the decision was made - whether it was ownership not wanting to spend Trout money on Mookie or Bloom deciding that paying Mookie all that money to play like Mookie when he figured the team was on the way down and then have Mookie hitting his decline when his future rebuilt team was on the way up, or the Sox scared that Mookie would take it all the way to free agency and then go elsewhere and getting nothing more than a draft pick - whichever theory you subscribe to, then the deal itself as far as the team(s) to deal with and the players to target was the easy part. I do give Bloom points for creativity. He liked what he thought Graterol could be but made sure the medicals backed up his thoughts, which they clearly didn't, so he went for Downs, who was a natural guy to go after. My only complaint was that he didn't come away with pitching in that deal. I thought maybe if he expanded it to include Workman, they could have pried Gray or Ferguson or Gonsolin away - maybe they couldn't have, but that complaint went by the boards when he used Workman (and Hembree) to swipe Pivetta and Seabold from the Phillies - it was as if Bloom said - THERE is your pitching. I'll be curious to see if Wong becomes a capable starting catcher that they think he can be. I'm not sure how that works with Vazquez going forward, but it'll be interesting to see if they get a lot of value out of Wong as well. I figured they'd go after Ruiz or the younger catcher with the higher ceiling if they weren't getting a pitcher in the deal. I guess if they got Downs then they had to take the lesser regarded catcher in Wong as the 3rd piece in the deal.
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