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2013 Non-Sox MLB Discussion
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Post by James Dunne on Aug 20, 2013 11:26:26 GMT -5
I like Kapler a lot. He's a smart, thoughtful guy, and a pretty good writer.
However, a big part argument seems to be that the actual benefits of steroids - getting stronger, faster, and whatever - don't help as much as the perceived mental benefits. Now, first off, I don't think that anything would make Barry Bonds or Alex Rodriguez *more* confident. But anyhow, if the placebo effect is more powerful than the actual effect, would teams or trainers gain a benefit from injecting their players with placebos that they say are designer synthetics that "aren't banned yet" or some such? If they do that, are they cheating? I say no, but there are obvious ethical questions there.
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Post by elguapo on Aug 20, 2013 11:31:43 GMT -5
However, a big part argument seems to be that the actual benefits of steroids - getting stronger, faster, and whatever - don't help as much as the perceived mental benefits. I read that as more of a personal theory than the thrust of the article. And the two really go hand in hand - get bigger/stronger/faster and your confidence goes up with your performance. After all, baseball is 90% half mental. But how to separate the two in a valid study? Good luck.
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Post by ibsmith85 on Aug 20, 2013 11:53:22 GMT -5
Well, here's Gabe Kapler's take on the whole steroid scandal, including why he avoided it and faced questions about it throughout his career. An outstanding read that everyone should look at. Kapler is fairly new to the writing game, but his stuff has been exceptional up to date. @gabekapler: This is a personal piece and it wasn't easy to write, but I'm glad I did. Look forward to hearing your feedback! t.co/dLRclMI37p(I'm on Safari on the iPhone so can't quote this, apologies to the mods) but here's Kapler's take on how steroids affects a players game; something that is commonly debated on this board. "Had I been unable to resist the temptation, I believe I would have maintained the strength that I had at my peak, or perhaps increased it. As I became better mechanically and through experience, that power would play up. The ripple effect of that would lead to confidence, which would in turn lead to improved performance. There is a school of thought that PEDs don’t help your eye-hand coordination; that they won’t make you a better player because you still have to hit the ball. That’s a debatable topic, but I reckon that bigger, stronger, faster, more powerful men will hit the ball harder and throw the ball faster. That’s nearly indisputable. In baseball, there isn’t a factor more responsible for success than confidence. I’ve never in my life had a player tell me different. If a man is stronger on the field and can recover more quickly, he’s inherently going to believe in his ability more. I submit that if anything, the value of PEDs to a player has been drastically underpublicized as opposed to overblown." I was just coming on here to post this link. Seriously, stop what you're doing and read this. I believe it's free. It is free, and take Hatfield's word for it, very very good article, incredible perspective from a player and writers view. Also, I am extremely impressed with Kapler's writing skills. ADD: Dunne, I agree with you that ARod and BB never needed "more" confidence, I think that's why they were able to elevate their performances even higher, to legends of the sport status.
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Post by ray88h66 on Aug 20, 2013 12:30:15 GMT -5
Really well said and about as open and honest as I've seen from a former player. Should be required reading for every high school player in all sports.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Aug 20, 2013 12:52:09 GMT -5
Also, I am extremely impressed with Kapler's writing skills. This. Not in the "I'd always assumed he was a big dumb athlete" sense, but in the objective sense that he could make a living writing because he's extremely good at it.
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Post by pedroelgrande on Aug 20, 2013 12:53:38 GMT -5
He seems like a guy that will work in a front office when he wants.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Aug 20, 2013 12:54:25 GMT -5
He seems like a guy that will work in a front office when he wants. He was/is working for the Rays.
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Post by James Dunne on Aug 20, 2013 12:56:50 GMT -5
He seems like a guy that will work in a front office when he wants. You're probably right, though selfishly I'd prefer him outside the game as a commentator/writer.
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danr
Veteran
Posts: 1,871
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Post by danr on Aug 20, 2013 13:12:57 GMT -5
I'd like to see the Sox bring Kapler back as a minor league manager. He was exceptional in that one year he did it. He has real leadership ability and is smart. Now we know he also can write.
His article is very thought-provoking, and raises many questions about sports in general. He certainly shows why signing players over the age of 30 to long-term contracts is a really bad idea. Those dropping testosterone levels track pretty closely with statistical studies that show the peak performance years for players are in the 26-28 age range, and that performance generally begins to decline in the early 30s and then accelerates.
Does anyone know if testosterone-raising drugs are considered PEDs? There are a lot of ads on TV for such drugs. "Low-T" is a relative thing. What can be dangerous is low-T for a man's age. However, those drugs can have some really nasty side-effects, some of them also dangerous. From what I have heard doctors will prescribe the low-T correcting drugs when the condition is more threatening than the cure.
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Post by jmei on Aug 20, 2013 13:54:14 GMT -5
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Post by wcsoxfan on Aug 20, 2013 14:46:40 GMT -5
I'd like to see the Sox bring Kapler back as a minor league manager. He was exceptional in that one year he did it. He has real leadership ability and is smart. Now we know he also can write. His article is very thought-provoking, and raises many questions about sports in general. He certainly shows why signing players over the age of 30 to long-term contracts is a really bad idea. Those dropping testosterone levels track pretty closely with statistical studies that show the peak performance years for players are in the 26-28 age range, and that performance generally begins to decline in the early 30s and then accelerates. Does anyone know if testosterone-raising drugs are considered PEDs? There are a lot of ads on TV for such drugs. "Low-T" is a relative thing. What can be dangerous is low-T for a man's age. However, those drugs can have some really nasty side-effects, some of them also dangerous. From what I have heard doctors will prescribe the low-T correcting drugs when the condition is more threatening than the cure. Yes - testosterone raising drugs are considered PEDs. MLB tests players for elevated levels of testosterone and if they reach a greater than 3:1 testosterone to epitestosterone level then that counts as a positive test. To my knowledge epitestosterone can't be faked (for now) and a normal person will have a 1:1 ratio. There was a large debate about this recently with players taking moose or deer antler spray (apparently New Zealand is the best place to source it) orally. This was originally banned by many sports but those bans have recently been lifted for the most part because there is no evidence that this spray alters testosterone levels when taken orally. If taken as an injection this is considered an illegal PED by most/all professional sports.
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Post by wcsoxfan on Aug 20, 2013 15:19:52 GMT -5
Well, here's Gabe Kapler's take on the whole steroid scandal, including why he avoided it and faced questions about it throughout his career. An outstanding read that everyone should look at. Kapler is fairly new to the writing game, but his stuff has been exceptional up to date. @gabekapler: This is a personal piece and it wasn't easy to write, but I'm glad I did. Look forward to hearing your feedback! t.co/dLRclMI37p(I'm on Safari on the iPhone so can't quote this, apologies to the mods) but here's Kapler's take on how steroids affects a players game; something that is commonly debated on this board. "Had I been unable to resist the temptation, I believe I would have maintained the strength that I had at my peak, or perhaps increased it. As I became better mechanically and through experience, that power would play up. The ripple effect of that would lead to confidence, which would in turn lead to improved performance. There is a school of thought that PEDs don’t help your eye-hand coordination; that they won’t make you a better player because you still have to hit the ball. That’s a debatable topic, but I reckon that bigger, stronger, faster, more powerful men will hit the ball harder and throw the ball faster. That’s nearly indisputable. In baseball, there isn’t a factor more responsible for success than confidence. I’ve never in my life had a player tell me different. If a man is stronger on the field and can recover more quickly, he’s inherently going to believe in his ability more. I submit that if anything, the value of PEDs to a player has been drastically underpublicized as opposed to overblown." Thanks for linking this - it is a very interesting article. One thing I took away from this is that we should be looking into players who hit 30 and continue to improve rather than 20-something years olds who are playing above their peers. Here is another article regarding Kapler's thoughts on steroids when he was still playing - not a 'must read' but shows that his thinking is similar 9 years later: www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2004/12/10/kapler_prefers_not_to_give_issue_juice?pg=fulland another: mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090217&content_id=3839664&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlbI also found articles from both Rays and A's fan sites accusing Kapler of being a steroid user (and many other things).
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Aug 20, 2013 20:37:24 GMT -5
I would be ecstatic if he ever worked for NESN. I'm not a fan of either Jerry or Don, but that could be a discussion for another time.
I was always a big Kapler fan regardless.
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Post by James Dunne on Aug 21, 2013 15:55:42 GMT -5
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Aug 21, 2013 16:16:34 GMT -5
Weird, I was recently told that getting hit by a baseball wasn't a serious threat to a player's health...
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Post by charliezink16 on Aug 21, 2013 18:25:32 GMT -5
Weird, I was recently told that getting hit by a baseball wasn't a serious threat to a player's health... Yeah, thanks a lot Jon Niese. The probability of this happening the day after that board discussion is pretty minuscule. I hope that everything works out for Heyward and pray for a quick recovery from him, but I still hold strong with my side of this argument. This fully supports your logical argument though. Not trying to re-up on that discussion though, sorry.
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Post by Don Caballero on Aug 21, 2013 18:40:32 GMT -5
Weird, I was recently told that getting hit by a baseball wasn't a serious threat to a player's health... Nope, you were told that getting hit by the ball doesn't give you an advantage in this sport. It's been a long week, I get your confusion.
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Post by ray88h66 on Aug 21, 2013 18:48:19 GMT -5
Will more players die or face long term health problems from thrown balls or PED's?
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Aug 21, 2013 19:58:22 GMT -5
Weird, I was recently told that getting hit by a baseball wasn't a serious threat to a player's health... Nope, you were told that getting hit by the ball doesn't give you an advantage in this sport. It's been a long week, I get your confusion. Dude read the post directly above yours.
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Post by ray88h66 on Aug 21, 2013 20:02:07 GMT -5
Iggy has 9 hits in his last 4 games. Only one web gem though, slacker.
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Post by grandsalami on Aug 21, 2013 20:06:57 GMT -5
Iggy has 9 hits in his last 4 games. Only one web gem though, slacker. how many are of the IF type?
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Post by ray88h66 on Aug 21, 2013 20:11:49 GMT -5
Iggy has 9 hits in his last 4 games. Only one web gem though, slacker. how many are of the IF type? 1 bunt, 2 slow rollers, two over the infield bloops, 2 line drives. I'm not sure what the hits tonight are. He also hit a long drive almost 400 feet that was caught the other night.
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Post by vermontsox1 on Aug 22, 2013 16:52:23 GMT -5
Don't know if anyone has posted this yet, but here is a great visual of past, current, and future MLB contracts: mrphilroth.com/mlbpayrolls/
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Post by grandsalami on Aug 22, 2013 18:20:09 GMT -5
If I was the owner of the blue jays I would fire the GM before I axe the manager. And I would fire the GM at the end of the season
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Aug 22, 2013 18:46:12 GMT -5
If I was the owner of the blue jays I would fire the GM before I axe the manager. And I would fire the GM at the end of the season I see the shine is off yet another shiny new toy. Throw him in the dumpster with Jack Z, I guess...
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