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Post by redsox04071318champs on Mar 12, 2020 11:48:22 GMT -5
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Mar 12, 2020 12:08:11 GMT -5
I disagree partly with this sentiment. The bat boy/girl is constantly going over to the side of the fans. The dugouts are underneath the fans. Now, if we're talking empty stadium, it's still technically the same thing as the NBA. Ballplayers aren't as recognizable and famous as basketball, but there's a much greater volume of baseball players than there are basketball. It just takes 1 guy to get sick and we're talking 25 man rosters with 30 teams. Heck, if we really want to get crazy we can include the 40 man since players are constantly moving back and forth between AAA and MLB. If Ockimey gets sick and then gets called up then baseball is done. It just doesn't make sense to start the season on time. Why is that not also an argument for closing all places of employment and having all workers stay home? Italy has done this. It could very well get to this point. At least, for now, it's avoiding large crowds of people. Edit: the reason why the season would be over is because every player on whatever team and whatever team they played would need to be quarantined for 14 days. You can't have teams missing 14 days worth of games. Especially if it happens again.
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Post by Gwell55 on Mar 12, 2020 14:09:33 GMT -5
Would players be paid for any games they missed? Financial concerns are trivial in the middle of a pandemic, but a potential issue nonetheless. Players in the past were not paid for games lost to work stoppage. But according to a source, the union in this case would take the position that players would merit their full salaries even in a shorter season; baseball is not a sport with a salary cap, and salaries are not linked to revenues. An ownership representative emphatically disagreed, saying it would be unrealistic to expect teams to maintain full payrolls while operating without revenue. The official invoked the term force majeure, a common clause in contracts that essentially frees both parties from fulfilling an obligation due to an extraordinary circumstance, an act of God. The coronavirus certainly fits both descriptions. theathletic.com/1671443/2020/03/12/rosenthal-baseball-faces-many-questions-as-it-deals-with-coronavirus/
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Post by Oregon Norm on Mar 12, 2020 14:19:17 GMT -5
The NBA has a force majeur provision in their agreement with the players, one that includes epidemics. What that means is that they don't legally have to pay players. That would be a bad look in my opinion. We'll see where that goes. I have no idea if the MLB CBA contains anything remotely similar.
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shagworthy
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My neckbeard game is on point.
Posts: 1,486
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Post by shagworthy on Mar 12, 2020 14:23:12 GMT -5
At this stage, all major sports need to follow suit with the NBA. Games need to be postponed. Doing anything other than that is unethical in my opinion, and puts many of the older generation of fans at great risk. There has to be a way to still generate revenue without the actual games, maybe broadcast individual team skill competitions with limited support staff and media? Best case scenario, this is an overreaction and we all chortle in 2-3 weeks when we are out of danger. Worst case scenario a lot of us start burying parents and grandparents prematurely before we decide inaction isn't an appropriate response. Me, personally, would rather be inconvenienced for a few weeks, and slightly bored, than have to explain to my kids that grandma and grandpa aren't here anymore because society is selfish. This started about 3 months ago. The Spanish flu lasted about 15 months. Your 'best case scenario', unfortunately, is not reasonable. 2-3 months is probably a more reasonable and very optimistic best case scenario. Just something to consider for the soon-to-be-played spring events: nothing is being postponed a few weeks. If they postpone now, then it's either a cancellation or a very long delay. In MLB's case, the season is so long that cancelling a couple of months isn't going to be the end of the world. But it would suck to cancel the whole season. 10 years from now we will look back at the impact this pandemic caused and likely recognize the economic affects just as greatly, if not greater, than the loss of life; in both the general country/world and MLB. Hold on. -I'll admit, my best case scenario was very rosy, I was just trying to make the point more to the folks saying this is an overreaction and minimizing the impact this could/is going to have. It's likely to change many things, customs among them. With two respiratory challenged children, and one with Epilepsy that is sometimes triggered by illness, I'm holding on as best as I can, which is to say, by a very tiny thread. |
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ericmvan
Veteran
Supposed to be working on something more important
Posts: 8,914
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Post by ericmvan on Mar 12, 2020 14:31:10 GMT -5
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Mar 12, 2020 14:43:03 GMT -5
For some reason, it's in the Spring Training thread.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Mar 12, 2020 14:47:08 GMT -5
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Post by p23w on Mar 12, 2020 16:02:04 GMT -5
At this stage, all major sports need to follow suit with the NBA. Games need to be postponed. Doing anything other than that is unethical in my opinion, and puts many of the older generation of fans at great risk. There has to be a way to still generate revenue without the actual games, maybe broadcast individual team skill competitions with limited support staff and media? Best case scenario, this is an overreaction and we all chortle in 2-3 weeks when we are out of danger. Worst case scenario a lot of us start burying parents and grandparents prematurely before we decide inaction isn't an appropriate response. Me, personally, would rather be inconvenienced for a few weeks, and slightly bored, than have to explain to my kids that grandma and grandpa aren't here anymore because society is selfish. This started about 3 months ago. The Spanish flu lasted about 15 months. Your 'best case scenario', unfortunately, is not reasonable. 2-3 months is probably a more reasonable and very optimistic best case scenario. Just something to consider for the soon-to-be-played spring events: nothing is being postponed a few weeks. If they postpone now, then it's either a cancellation or a very long delay. In MLB's case, the season is so long that cancelling a couple of months isn't going to be the end of the world. But it would suck to cancel the whole season. 10 years from now we will look back at the impact this pandemic caused and likely recognize the economic affects just as greatly, if not greater, than the loss of life; in both the general country/world and MLB. Hold on. H1N1 took 17,000 lives in 2010 (with a high rate of younger victims). I don't recall the economic effects of that pandemic. Half the people I know are working from home as I write this. I don't think MLB cancels the season. When they pick-up is anybody's guess.
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Post by soxin8 on Mar 12, 2020 18:14:02 GMT -5
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Mar 13, 2020 12:17:27 GMT -5
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danr
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Posts: 1,871
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Post by danr on Mar 14, 2020 2:57:11 GMT -5
So apparently MLB is still going to try and play 162. We'll see. They aren't going to play until we have control of the virus and it declines. Most experts seem to think that could take months, even lasting into next year. There is no treatment for it and the guy who solved AIDs and who now is working on a treatment said on Rachel Maddow tonight that it could be next year before he gets anything effective developed. The vaccine will take even longer. We could get lucky and it dies out on its own but it doesn't seem to be that kind of bug. It seems fairly likely that this season is toast. That will raise all kinds of questions and issues.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Mar 14, 2020 10:51:34 GMT -5
So apparently MLB is still going to try and play 162. We'll see. They aren't going to play until we have control of the virus and it declines. Most experts seem to think that could take months, even lasting into next year. There is no treatment for it and the guy who solved AIDs and who now is working on a treatment said on Rachel Maddow tonight that it could be next year before he gets anything effective developed. The vaccine will take even longer. We could get lucky and it dies out on its own but it doesn't seem to be that kind of bug. It seems fairly likely that this season is toast. That will raise all kinds of questions and issues. If it's spreading in Africa, then I don't see how the summer months will kill it, but I'm no doctor.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Mar 14, 2020 11:32:00 GMT -5
China has pretty much solved it. They went from a high of 15,000 a day in February to only 15 confirmed case in the past week. China is now sending doctors and medical supplies to Europe.
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Post by wcsoxfan on Mar 14, 2020 13:40:24 GMT -5
China has pretty much solved it. They went from a high of 15,000 a day in February to only 15 confirmed case in the past week. China is now sending doctors and medical supplies to Europe. I'm not sure where you are getting your information but i highly suggest you rely on the WHO and CDC instead. To clarify your points: - China did report over 14,000 new cases in 1 day, but that is only because they were under-reporting cases and not due to an increase in spread of the disease. China has never exceeded 4,000 new cases in a day outside of the day of over 14,000 new cases and the day after which had 5,000 new cases. - According to the WHO, China had over 260 new confirmed cases in the past week. This is a great improvement (assuming China's numbers are accurate) but is much higher than 15. - 3 days ago there was a report that China would be sending 5 doctors (who have been treating the coronavirus in China for months) along with supplies to Italy. This is good, but the supplies are the main issue as Chinese manufacturing is the main source of these supplies in the world. So part of the reason they are 'sending' the supplies, is because they produce them in the first place. It's great that China is looking better (although we should take all info reported by China with a grain of salt), and that may be a sign the US is only 1-2 months from being past the worst of it, but in the majority of the world new cases and deaths increase each day - so the worst is still ahead. As this relates to baseball, May seems to be the 'best case scenario'. In our current situation it's important to avoid misinformation. Backup for the above data: www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/situation-reports/20200307-sitrep-47-covid-19.pdf?sfvrsn=27c364a4_4www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/situation-reports/20200308-sitrep-48-covid-19.pdf?sfvrsn=16f7ccef_4www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/situation-reports/20200309-sitrep-49-covid-19.pdf?sfvrsn=70dabe61_4www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/situation-reports/20200310-sitrep-50-covid-19.pdf?sfvrsn=55e904fb_2www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/situation-reports/20200311-sitrep-51-covid-19.pdf?sfvrsn=1ba62e57_10www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/20200312-sitrep-52-covid-19.pdf?sfvrsn=e2bfc9c0_4www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/situation-reports/20200313-sitrep-53-covid-19.pdf?sfvrsn=adb3f72_2www.vice.com/en_us/article/akwage/china-is-now-sending-doctors-masks-and-hazmat-suits-to-help-italy-with-its-coronavirus-outbreakOther Resources: www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/situation-reports/www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/world-map.htmlwww.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
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Post by sittingstill on Mar 14, 2020 14:27:10 GMT -5
This is an interesting account of the way China went after COVID-19; it doesn't bear much resemblance to what we are doing in the U.S. right now.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Mar 14, 2020 15:48:26 GMT -5
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Post by jdb on Mar 14, 2020 16:28:23 GMT -5
Didn’t China hide the problem from the rest of the world for weeks and then not let other countries scientists in to help?
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Post by sittingstill on Mar 14, 2020 17:21:33 GMT -5
Did anything about that clip suggest that it was? It described how they arrested the in-country spread and explicitly pointed out that they would have to see what happened once economic activity resumed. We're not doing anything to identify and isolate those infected--in fact a constant refrain is that we're refusing to test those likely to be infected if they don't meet a very specific set of criteria (which every public health and ER doc I know says is much too narrow).
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Mar 14, 2020 21:35:31 GMT -5
China has pretty much solved it. They went from a high of 15,000 a day in February to only 15 confirmed case in the past week. China is now sending doctors and medical supplies to Europe. I'm not sure where you are getting your information but i highly suggest you rely on the WHO and CDC instead. To clarify your points: - China did report over 14,000 new cases in 1 day, but that is only because they were under-reporting cases and not due to an increase in spread of the disease. China has never exceeded 4,000 new cases in a day outside of the day of over 14,000 new cases and the day after which had 5,000 new cases. - According to the WHO, China had over 260 new confirmed cases in the past week. This is a great improvement (assuming China's numbers are accurate) but is much higher than 15. - 3 days ago there was a report that China would be sending 5 doctors (who have been treating the coronavirus in China for months) along with supplies to Italy. This is good, but the supplies are the main issue as Chinese manufacturing is the main source of these supplies in the world. So part of the reason they are 'sending' the supplies, is because they produce them in the first place. It's great that China is looking better (although we should take all info reported by China with a grain of salt), and that may be a sign the US is only 1-2 months from being past the worst of it, but in the majority of the world new cases and deaths increase each day - so the worst is still ahead. As this relates to baseball, May seems to be the 'best case scenario'. In our current situation it's important to avoid misinformation. Backup for the above data: www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/situation-reports/20200307-sitrep-47-covid-19.pdf?sfvrsn=27c364a4_4www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/situation-reports/20200308-sitrep-48-covid-19.pdf?sfvrsn=16f7ccef_4www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/situation-reports/20200309-sitrep-49-covid-19.pdf?sfvrsn=70dabe61_4www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/situation-reports/20200310-sitrep-50-covid-19.pdf?sfvrsn=55e904fb_2www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/situation-reports/20200311-sitrep-51-covid-19.pdf?sfvrsn=1ba62e57_10www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/20200312-sitrep-52-covid-19.pdf?sfvrsn=e2bfc9c0_4www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/situation-reports/20200313-sitrep-53-covid-19.pdf?sfvrsn=adb3f72_2www.vice.com/en_us/article/akwage/china-is-now-sending-doctors-masks-and-hazmat-suits-to-help-italy-with-its-coronavirus-outbreakOther Resources: www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/situation-reports/www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/world-map.htmlwww.worldometers.info/coronavirus/Not to mention that in their quest to contain the virus, Chinese officials are only letting people leave their homes every 2 days and have forbidden weddings and funerals.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Mar 14, 2020 21:46:18 GMT -5
I should have been clearer. Their measures suppressed it successfully after they let it get out of hand, and get away. That's a real positive though it was done at enormous cost to the global economy. But if they are seeing reinfection, they're not done yet. And yes, we've failed to prepare. That was purposeful given the elimination of the organizational structure that had been put in place to deal with just such an eventuality: foreignpolicy.com/2020/01/31/coronavirus-china-trump-united-states-public-health-emergency-responseIf we can't find a way to contain the outbreaks that are spreading, a lost baseball season will be the least of our worries.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Mar 14, 2020 23:18:31 GMT -5
I'm not sure where you are getting your information but i highly suggest you rely on the WHO and CDC instead. To clarify your points: - China did report over 14,000 new cases in 1 day, but that is only because they were under-reporting cases and not due to an increase in spread of the disease. China has never exceeded 4,000 new cases in a day outside of the day of over 14,000 new cases and the day after which had 5,000 new cases. - According to the WHO, China had over 260 new confirmed cases in the past week. This is a great improvement (assuming China's numbers are accurate) but is much higher than 15. - 3 days ago there was a report that China would be sending 5 doctors (who have been treating the coronavirus in China for months) along with supplies to Italy. This is good, but the supplies are the main issue as Chinese manufacturing is the main source of these supplies in the world. So part of the reason they are 'sending' the supplies, is because they produce them in the first place. It's great that China is looking better (although we should take all info reported by China with a grain of salt), and that may be a sign the US is only 1-2 months from being past the worst of it, but in the majority of the world new cases and deaths increase each day - so the worst is still ahead. As this relates to baseball, May seems to be the 'best case scenario'. In our current situation it's important to avoid misinformation. Backup for the above data: www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/situation-reports/20200307-sitrep-47-covid-19.pdf?sfvrsn=27c364a4_4www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/situation-reports/20200308-sitrep-48-covid-19.pdf?sfvrsn=16f7ccef_4www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/situation-reports/20200309-sitrep-49-covid-19.pdf?sfvrsn=70dabe61_4www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/situation-reports/20200310-sitrep-50-covid-19.pdf?sfvrsn=55e904fb_2www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/situation-reports/20200311-sitrep-51-covid-19.pdf?sfvrsn=1ba62e57_10www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/20200312-sitrep-52-covid-19.pdf?sfvrsn=e2bfc9c0_4www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/situation-reports/20200313-sitrep-53-covid-19.pdf?sfvrsn=adb3f72_2www.vice.com/en_us/article/akwage/china-is-now-sending-doctors-masks-and-hazmat-suits-to-help-italy-with-its-coronavirus-outbreakOther Resources: www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/situation-reports/www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/world-map.htmlwww.worldometers.info/coronavirus/Not to mention that in their quest to contain the virus, Chinese officials are only letting people leave their homes every 2 days and have forbidden weddings and funerals. OMG, the horror.
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Post by wcsoxfan on Mar 15, 2020 0:15:50 GMT -5
Not to mention that in their quest to contain the virus, Chinese officials are only letting people leave their homes every 2 days and have forbidden weddings and funerals. As horrible as dictatorships without basic human rights are, they're extremely effective in crisis situations. Cuba (far more rights than China, but still a dictatorship) and how they handle hurricane season is a good example of this.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Mar 15, 2020 7:28:23 GMT -5
Not to mention that in their quest to contain the virus, Chinese officials are only letting people leave their homes every 2 days and have forbidden weddings and funerals. OMG, the horror. That isn't just nothing. I think, after reading your posts over the years, you live outside the US at this time. It doesn't take much to realize that the bolded couldn't even be considered in the US. I think redsoxfan was just pointing out that the differences in how much the government can directly influence the outcome, as opposed to here, where that kind of directive, pretty much couldn't be given. It definitely would not be followed.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Mar 15, 2020 7:43:40 GMT -5
That isn't just nothing. I think, after reading your posts over the years, you live outside the US at this time. It doesn't take much to realize that the bolded couldn't even be considered in the US. I think redsoxfan was just pointing out that the differences in how much the government can directly influence the outcome, as opposed to here, where that kind of directive, pretty much couldn't be given. It definitely would not be followed. Maybe they should hold a giant protest rally. If people are going to be that stupid to not heed the warnings, they've earned what they get. In Italy, a big part of the rapid spread of the disease was because when they shut down the schools and large businesses, instead of going home, people began going to the beach and assembling in town squares. I'm pretty sure that wasn't what they had in mind.
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