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If the season is canceled the Sox CBT will NOT reset
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Post by grandsalami on Mar 30, 2020 18:46:57 GMT -5
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Post by grandsalami on Mar 30, 2020 20:59:41 GMT -5
So unless the Sox say “screw the CBT” due to the uncertainty of the CBA. it will be a quiet offseason. And no Mookie
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Mar 31, 2020 8:22:55 GMT -5
Please let there be a stupid mini season
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Post by incandenza on Mar 31, 2020 10:02:52 GMT -5
Please let there be a stupid mini season Plus this would just be awesome - if like they started after Labor Day with a 20-game season or something. Every game hugely important, like a playoff game in its own right. Totally random teams making the playoffs. It would be great!
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Mar 31, 2020 10:27:59 GMT -5
Please let there be a stupid mini season Hope it would happen just because things would have improved enough to the point that it could be realistically possible. From a Red Sox-centric view a short season would be the Sox' best chance to be a playoff team, especially with an expanded 14 team playoff format. I think the Sox' lack of pitching would be very exposed during the long season. During a short 50 - 100 game season, they might be able to skate by. And of course, getting under the tax limit would give the Sox their best chance at spending a lot next year and beyond, although I still don't think they'd be willing to shell out what it will probably take to bring back Mookie.
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Post by stevedillard on Mar 31, 2020 10:48:57 GMT -5
That seemed pretty evident. Need to play the season to get the relief. If you reset under the salary cap and then never pay anything are you really under?
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Mar 31, 2020 17:08:02 GMT -5
Considering that there would only one more season under this CBA, it seems much more possible the Red Sox would decide to just go ahead and pay the CBT next year if there's going to be a potential increase in the CBT the following year.
The potential loss of revenue this year could significantly change how the CBT works in 2022 and beyond anyway.
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Post by julyanmorley on Apr 1, 2020 12:00:36 GMT -5
The owners would vote 29-1 to keep the Red Sox spending constrained one more year. I have heard the Cubs are in a similar situation, so maybe 28-2.
I think a neutral third party would say that it's fair for the CBT penalties to reset this year, especially considering the Red Sox took deliberate action to accomplish it and were sitting ~$10 million under. I think the union was asleep at the wheel again and potentially cost its members tens of millions of dollars.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Apr 1, 2020 17:01:54 GMT -5
The owners would vote 29-1 to keep the Red Sox spending constrained one more year. I have heard the Cubs are in a similar situation, so maybe 28-2. I think a neutral third party would say that it's fair for the CBT penalties to reset this year, especially considering the Red Sox took deliberate action to accomplish it and were sitting ~$10 million under. I think the union was asleep at the wheel again and potentially cost its members tens of millions of dollars. Disagree on the neutral third party thing. If the clubs don't wind up paying anything beyond the negotiated advance, then why are you going to give teams credit for getting under? In the last two played seasons, the Red Sox were over the CBT. I don't think it makes sense to give them credit for a season that didn't happen. And as for the moves they made to get under, I'm sure the Dodgers would like to speak with you about moves they made and how those will affect them going forward - if there's no season, they will have traded away Verdugo, Downs, and Wong for a subsidized David Price.
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Post by julyanmorley on Apr 1, 2020 18:47:37 GMT -5
I wouldn't accept the "competitive balance" framing so readily. Sure, under this logic the Red Sox will not have been adequately punished if nobody plays this season. But the repeater tax exists to suppress player salaries by strongly incentivizing the biggest spenders to sit out one out of every three offseasons. From a collective bargaining perspective, I don't think it's fair for the Red Sox to have this strong incentive two years in a row after succumbing to it the first time.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Apr 2, 2020 11:58:52 GMT -5
Huh. Interesting way of looking at it. You may have just convinced me.
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Post by dirtdog on Apr 2, 2020 21:13:06 GMT -5
One nice thing is Noah Song gets a year of naval commitment done with no affect on the club.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Apr 14, 2020 12:13:56 GMT -5
So while looking for something else, I found the following post from March 2018. This predates the extensions they gave to Vazquez, Bogaerts, and Sale, and the Eovaldi trade and re-signing, but as we've said on here a number of times - this was predictable and should've been planned for, and the fact that the ownership let Dombrowski operate the way he did in 2019 without a plan in place for how to approach this in the future is a big part of what led to the Mookie Betts trade. forum.soxprospects.com/post/299400/threadConsider this: The Red Sox will have the highest payroll in baseball this season. Here's who they're paying what, and how that will change in 3 years: C 2018: Vazquez/Leon tandem costs $3,375,000 2021: Both Vazquez and Leon will be free agents. No clear in-house replacement. 1B 2018: Hanley/Moreland platoon costs $28.5M. 2021: Both Hanley and Moreland are gone after 2019, so who the hell knows. JDM? 2B 2018: Pedroia, $13.75M 2021: Same, but in his last year. SS 2018: Bogaerts, $7.05M 2021: Bogaerts is a free agent and would cost at least twice that. 3B 2018: Devers, league minimum 2021: Devers, first year of arb. Probably at least $5M and more if things go the way we all hope. LF 2018: Benintendi, close to league minimum 2021: Benintendi, second year of arb. Probably around $10M at least? CF 2018: Bradley, $6.1M 2021: Bradley is a free agent RF 2018: Betts, $10.5M 2021: Betts is a free agent, will require >$20M DH 2018: JDM, $22M 2021: JDM, $22M (unless he moves into the OF - conceivable given both JBJ and Betts as free agents - or 1B; in that case, maybe Chavis on the cheap is up and hitting?) In the lineup alone, you're looking at a significant increase in cost to keep the band together. 1B and one OF spot look like the places they'd potentially save money, but to do that, you're not bringing back one of Bradley or Betts. Now consider the rotation: You're still paying Price $31M, Rodriguez is in his fourth year of arbitration, and you need to have replaced the other three. Maybe Groome, Houck, and/or Mata is ready by then, but you may not have the luxury of waiting - Pomeranz is a FA this year and Porcello and Sale are after next. Net cost of keeping all three would be a staggering increase. Oh, and Kimbrel's gone after this year. The point: Monetarily and, frankly, just based on logic, this team is going to look drastically different in 2021. They can't realistically re-sign every free agent, and the lack of prospects means they'll have fewer underpaid young players allowing them to spend money on veterans. For every team, there comes a point where you don't have the money. The club got to that point once and got bailed out by the Dodgers. That's not going to happen again. James is right - it's unnecessarily pessimistic to say they're doomed, but Dombrowski is going to have to get creative in the next few years. The current Red Sox team was built based on the graduation (Bogaerts, Bradley, Betts, Benintendi, Devers, Rodriguez sorta) and trading of minor league assets (for Sale, Kimbrel, Pomeranz), as well as MLB FAs (Ramirez, Porcello, JDM) and one re-signing (Pedroia). In 2021, the team is probably going to have to be built nearly exclusively on the latter two categories. THAT is the problem.
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Post by soxfaninnj on Jul 4, 2020 16:25:52 GMT -5
Price just opted out of the season.
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Post by RedSoxStats on Jul 4, 2020 17:30:02 GMT -5
As of this evening, the Red Sox do not know how this affects the CBT calculations.
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Post by bigpapiortiz on Jul 4, 2020 17:49:34 GMT -5
Can we reset the tax if 60 games are played? Last I heard, we couldn't, but I havent been paying attention.
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Post by RedSoxStats on Jul 4, 2020 18:06:29 GMT -5
Can we reset the tax if 60 games are played? Last I heard, we couldn't, but I havent been paying attention. Yes, the CBT gets prorated, so as long as they stay under and the season is completed, it's reset [as long as they don't go over, which they wouldn't]. If Price's money against the tax gets opened up, which is unclear right now, that would open a lot of possibilities to buy prospects this summer.
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Post by Legion of Bloom on Jul 4, 2020 19:55:52 GMT -5
I read on MLBTR that the Sox save approx. $6M this season due to Price opting out.
Edited to add in quote:
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jul 4, 2020 21:09:20 GMT -5
The luxury tax situation might not be as done a deal at this point as we thought:
Alex Speier @alexspeier · 4h Re: Price opting out: 1) He’s a very influential figure in the game. His willingness to walk away from $11.5M may impact calculus of others. 2) Sox won’t have to pay $5.7M share of his $ this year. 3) Luxury tax implications unclear. Those are still being collectively bargained.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jul 4, 2020 21:26:01 GMT -5
Just an opinion but I'd guess that the players union will be in favor of tax resets as easy as possible because that adds to the money available in future years.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jul 5, 2020 8:39:42 GMT -5
Just an opinion but I'd guess that the players union will be in favor of tax resets as easy as possible because that adds to the money available in future years. Right, and the owners probably won't because they are trying to keep salaries down.
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Post by jmanny24 on Jul 5, 2020 10:33:07 GMT -5
I was looking at some CBT stuff and I'm sure it has been answered a bunch of times, but if Pedroia retires prior to the 2021 season is there any CBT relief there?
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TearsIn04
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Post by TearsIn04 on Jul 5, 2020 14:29:38 GMT -5
Yes, I believe so. But why would he retire and pass up $14 million?
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jul 19, 2020 0:12:45 GMT -5
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