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Post by Mike Andrews on May 11, 2020 15:58:53 GMT -5
MLB Owners will be putting its proposal to the Union tomorrow to restart the 2020 season. Some details are reported/rumored to be: - Spring training starts in mid-June
- Season begins ~July 4, games played @ usual home stadiums or alternatively spring training sites if home state doesn't allow games
- Geographical schedules, in which teams play only in-division opponents and interleague opponents in a similar area
- No fans
- 82 game schedule
- NL gets DH in 2020
- 14 teams in postseason
- 50-50 revenue split
- No All Star Game
- 30 man roster
- 20 man taxi squad
- Minor league season off, or restructured to spring training sites
Not much out there on the health-centric plans yet, which will obviously be the primary issue. The revenue split is expected to be contentious and will be another key area of negotiation before anything is agreed to.
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Post by p23w on May 12, 2020 16:02:49 GMT -5
Smacks of Desperation to me. In keeping with the entertainment industry... the show must go on. From that perspective, the guidelines seem reasonable Gentlemen.... man your remotes.
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Post by jdb on May 12, 2020 16:28:01 GMT -5
If the DH is universal one would think it would increase JDMs value if we’re out of it.
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Post by swingingbunt on May 12, 2020 19:23:36 GMT -5
When would the trade deadline be? Hard to determine you're "out of it" with only ~50 games played (unless you're REALLY bad).
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Post by philsbosoxfan on May 14, 2020 2:01:10 GMT -5
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Post by patford on May 14, 2020 13:19:57 GMT -5
Any person proposing playing baseball during the Summer (outside a dome) in Florida has clearly never been to Florida. If Dante had ever been ever been here (I live in Florida) he would have added a 10th circle.
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Post by Oregon Norm on May 14, 2020 17:37:56 GMT -5
Well said. Florida has a precipitation chart the direct opposite of the west coast: relatively dry winters, and wet humid summers as the tropical monsoon pushes northward. Here the monsoon rarely makes it much past Southern Arizona and up into the Intermountain West, and never to the Pacific side of those mountains.
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Post by patford on May 14, 2020 19:53:57 GMT -5
Well said. Florida has a precipitation chart the direct opposite of the west coast: relatively dry winters, and wet humid summers as the tropical monsoon pushes northward. Here the monsoon rarely makes it much past Southern Arizona and up into the Intermountain West, and never to the Pacific side of those mountains. I lived in California from 1963-1975. This was near Santa Barbara. The weather is paradise. You could go out in the middle of a Summer day and play tennis for two hours and it would be around 90 and it felt good. In Florida if you go out at six in the morning and it's 82 already the humidity is so oppressive that you feel completely drained if you mow the lawn. The other thing I like is when it's midnight and 90. Love that. Don't ask me why I live here. I'm just saying the weather SUCKS.
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Post by sarasoxer on May 15, 2020 8:12:02 GMT -5
Well said. Florida has a precipitation chart the direct opposite of the west coast: relatively dry winters, and wet humid summers as the tropical monsoon pushes northward. Here the monsoon rarely makes it much past Southern Arizona and up into the Intermountain West, and never to the Pacific side of those mountains. I lived in California from 1963-1975. This was near Santa Barbara. The weather is paradise. You could go out in the middle of a Summer day and play tennis for two hours and it would be around 90 and it felt good. In Florida if you go out at six in the morning and it's 82 already the humidity is so oppressive that you feel completely drained if you mow the lawn. The other thing I like is when it's midnight and 90. Love that. Don't ask me why I live here. I'm just saying the weather SUCKS. Ha, ha, ha...True enough for outdoor exercise June-September. I've been doing a little jogging about 5 p.m. thinking it would be cooler. Yeah, sure. 88 degrees and humid...in May! Sometimes it feels as if you are breathing under water. Try to play golf in June-Sept. and the moisture hangs in the air. We have what we call "2 glove days" where you have to wear a glove on both hands....Sometimes even seemingly thin, wispy, cirrus type clouds on a sunny day will drop rain. The gulf water temp can reach 90. Still, you get to watch the GCL (when it doesn't rain)..and that is such an intimate atmosphere with players and the few fans. All sounds and voices seem magnified and echo. You can distinctly hear players, coaches talking and the ball cracks off the bat. I'm going to miss that.
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TearsIn04
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Post by TearsIn04 on May 15, 2020 18:00:12 GMT -5
I'm also curious about the trade deadline. A WS win would obviously be the best outcome to an abbreviated season. But the second best outcome would be:
- No MFY WS win. - RS far enough out of the race to deal at the deadline. - BWork (FA) and JDMart (probably opting out) having big years and getting moved at the deadline, each for a top-100 prospect. - A juicy top 12 draft pick in 2021.
I'm looking to get to the top of the division again by 2022 or 2023, which is when we'll have some significant money coming off the books. I think the type of 2020 season I outlined would help.
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Post by greenmonster on May 18, 2020 8:55:18 GMT -5
If/when baseball resumes I assume that some national networks (ESPN, etc) would be anxious to broadcast games and teams like the Red Sox and Yankees have their own networks .....what about some of the small market teams? Would the Brewers or Athletics be able to broadcast their own games or only occasionally be seen on the national networks??
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Post by p23w on Jun 6, 2020 21:20:34 GMT -5
Baseball/Softball has resumed on the Delmarva peninsula.... amateur and free. Hurrah!
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Post by dirtdog on Jun 8, 2020 8:32:00 GMT -5
I cant be the only one to think around a 50 game season will be more or less a glorified spring training. With any records or crowned champion being very suspect with like a dozen asterisks. Unless it comes to the Red Sox of course.
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Post by fenwaydouble on Jun 8, 2020 9:04:11 GMT -5
I cant be the only one to think around a 50 game season will be more or less a glorified spring training. With any records or crowned champion being very suspect with like a dozen asterisks. Unless it comes to the Red Sox of course. Sure, but who cares about the legitimacy of the champion at this point? A 50-game season would be a million times better for the health of the sport than a lost season.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 8, 2020 9:22:23 GMT -5
I cant be the only one to think around a 50 game season will be more or less a glorified spring training. With any records or crowned champion being very suspect with like a dozen asterisks. Unless it comes to the Red Sox of course. Sure, but who cares about the legitimacy of the champion at this point? A 50-game season would be a million times better for the health of the sport than a lost season. It's really hard to take a 50 game season seriously. I miss baseball very much and it bothers me a lot that my son, who is at that age when baseball seeps into your life has no exposure to it whatsoever and with the liberal bedtimes he has had with no school and no summer camp, it would be a perfect time for there to be baseball. That said, I sincerely doubt the owners want any baseball at all. I think they threw that out there because they knew it would be rejected. I think a lot of people think that 50 was thrown out as a way of getting the players down from 114 and to split the difference around 81 games or whatever. What seems a damn shame to me is that I think the owners truly want no baseball. They are being very shortsighted in their thinking. These billionaires can afford the losses, ones they're not willing to open their books to show. They should think of these losses as investments in growing the game. You have the summer stage to yourself and many kids in my son's position - a captive audience who can become addicted to baseball and become consumers of the game down the road, but the owners are only thinking of the here and now. So the summer will pass, there will be no baseball, and soon there will be basketball and football and hockey for kids to get interested in. I think the owners are killing their sports and baseball has a commissioner who only caters to the owners making money than doing what he can to grow his sport. I hope I'm wrong and we have about a half season's worth of baseball, but I see absolutely no urgency on the side of the owners for there to be a season. It's a damn shame. As a kid, I thought the strike of 1981 where a month was missed was bad. This is far worse.
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KB24
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Post by KB24 on Jun 8, 2020 11:45:58 GMT -5
Karl Ravech reporting that MLB owner have offered a counter proposal to the players for a 76 game season which pays players a 75% prorated amount of their salaries, essentially 57 games worth. Offer includes playoff pool money and draft pick comp wouldn't be tied to free agency signs in the offseason. This offer is negligibly different than the 50 game proposal being floated around. It doesn't seem to me that the owners have any real intention of having baseball this season with an offer like this more than a week into June.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jun 8, 2020 12:16:18 GMT -5
Sure, but who cares about the legitimacy of the champion at this point? A 50-game season would be a million times better for the health of the sport than a lost season. It's really hard to take a 50 game season seriously. I miss baseball very much and it bothers me a lot that my son, who is at that age when baseball seeps into your life has no exposure to it whatsoever and with the liberal bedtimes he has had with no school and no summer camp, it would be a perfect time for there to be baseball. That said, I sincerely doubt the owners want any baseball at all. I think they threw that out there because they knew it would be rejected. I think a lot of people think that 50 was thrown out as a way of getting the players down from 114 and to split the difference around 81 games or whatever. What seems a damn shame to me is that I think the owners truly want no baseball. They are being very shortsighted in their thinking. These billionaires can afford the losses, ones they're not willing to open their books to show. They should think of these losses as investments in growing the game. You have the summer stage to yourself and many kids in my son's position - a captive audience who can become addicted to baseball and become consumers of the game down the road, but the owners are only thinking of the here and now. So the summer will pass, there will be no baseball, and soon there will be basketball and football and hockey for kids to get interested in. I think the owners are killing their sports and baseball has a commissioner who only caters to the owners making money than doing what he can to grow his sport. I hope , I'm wrong and we have about a half season's worth of baseball, but I see absolutely no urgency on the side of the owners for there to be a season. It's a damn shame. As a kid, I thought the strike of 1981 where a month was missed was bad. This is far worse. if you read between the lines of what Rickett said and acknowledging that the owners likely had to borrow money to keep operations going at the current level, i am not sure they really should be interested in a shortened season, because of their business model. it is clear that a lot of owners want to keep their yearly profits to a minimum and be highly leveraged to give the appearance that they aren't making money, all the while the franchise valuations increase. The fight is over the prorated portion of the income. A fight players should be engaged in now and forever. The owners have been slicing into their pie for long enough. And their FA spending model, help by sabermetric orthodoxy, has hurt players.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jun 8, 2020 13:55:06 GMT -5
Karl Ravech reporting that MLB owner have offered a counter proposal to the players for a 76 game season which pays players a 75% prorated amount of their salaries, essentially 57 games worth. Offer includes playoff pool money and draft pick comp wouldn't be tied to free agency signs in the offseason. This offer is negligibly different than the 50 game proposal being floated around. It doesn't seem to me that the owners have any real intention of having baseball this season with an offer like this more than a week into June. Yeah, the option is play 50 games for 50 games' pay or play 76 games for 56 games' pay. Easy decision there...
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Jun 9, 2020 10:15:18 GMT -5
Karl Ravech reporting that MLB owner have offered a counter proposal to the players for a 76 game season which pays players a 75% prorated amount of their salaries, essentially 57 games worth. Offer includes playoff pool money and draft pick comp wouldn't be tied to free agency signs in the offseason. This offer is negligibly different than the 50 game proposal being floated around. It doesn't seem to me that the owners have any real intention of having baseball this season with an offer like this more than a week into June. Yeah, the option is play 50 games for 50 games' pay or play 76 games for 56 games' pay. Easy decision there... I don’t get the point of even offering that. It’s just a rude gesture when both sides should be moving towards the same goal. I fail to see how it’s productive. It’s like the MLB is trying to get fans to take the owners’ side over the players’ and that’s not going to happen.
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KB24
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Post by KB24 on Jun 9, 2020 10:42:16 GMT -5
I think it boils down to that the owners are only willing to pay players for 50-ish games based on the current circumstances and they think they can run out the clock long enough that this will ultimately be the only option left, outside of no season at all. By submitting proposals (even though they know they won't be accepted) they are covering their butts enough if/when the union sues them.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 9, 2020 11:26:05 GMT -5
I think it boils down to that the owners are only willing to pay players for 50-ish games based on the current circumstances and they think they can run out the clock long enough that this will ultimately be the only option left, outside of no season at all. By submitting proposals (even though they know they won't be accepted) they are covering their butts enough if/when the union sues them. Exactly. They will stall until 50 games is the only option and the players will reject it, and they'll say, "Well, we tried. The players are too greedy to play". I'm not buying that one and I hope nobody else does either. This is totally on the owners. They had the perfect opportunity to grow their game and they're passing it up. What do they care, 10 years down the road, when the kids who are 7 now care nothing about baseball? Personally, I would have loved to watch baseball with my son, who has had a liberal bedtime, one that he wouldn't have under normal circumstances. Instead, my kid is into computers and The Simpsons. He wants to love baseball because he knows that Daddy loves baseball, and I have a bunch of baseball cards to give him, but without him seeing the players play those things mean nothing to him. Can't compete with pokeman cards. All because owners don't see beyond their own temporary bottom lines. I find it disgusting, but it takes a backseat to a bunch of other things that I find disgusting right now. Such is the state of where things stand in 2020.
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Post by dirtdog on Jun 10, 2020 9:13:27 GMT -5
I think it boils down to that the owners are only willing to pay players for 50-ish games based on the current circumstances and they think they can run out the clock long enough that this will ultimately be the only option left, outside of no season at all. By submitting proposals (even though they know they won't be accepted) they are covering their butts enough if/when the union sues them. Exactly. They will stall until 50 games is the only option and the players will reject it, and they'll say, "Well, we tried. The players are too greedy to play". I'm not buying that one and I hope nobody else does either. This is totally on the owners. They had the perfect opportunity to grow their game and they're passing it up. What do they care, 10 years down the road, when the kids who are 7 now care nothing about baseball? Personally, I would have loved to watch baseball with my son, who has had a liberal bedtime, one that he wouldn't have under normal circumstances. Instead, my kid is into computers and The Simpsons. He wants to love baseball because he knows that Daddy loves baseball, and I have a bunch of baseball cards to give him, but without him seeing the players play those things mean nothing to him. Can't compete with pokeman cards. All because owners don't see beyond their own temporary bottom lines. I find it disgusting, but it takes a backseat to a bunch of other things that I find disgusting right now. Such is the state of where things stand in 2020. Not buying the owner rhetoric for one second. Looks like an obvious case of billionaires trying to put one over on the little guy again. A case of the usual attempt to get the fans on the owners side now so they can try and screw the players on the next CBA. What owners like Arte Moreno and the Mark Walters have done is shameful IMO.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jun 10, 2020 9:59:08 GMT -5
Honestly, the players' proposals haven't been much better. Their principled stance on not accepting anything less than prorated pay is pretty crazy, because they are doing so in order to avoid setting a precedent for future negotiations. This is the definition of exigent circumstances. How is it a precedent???
This is the lawyer in me coming out, but there has been zero creativity in bargaining by either side. When negotiating, you're not going to get to a resolution unless you give the other side a reason to say "Yes," even to part of the proposal. When you submit offers that give the other side nothing to agree to, it just angers them.
These sides badly need a mediator and/or new leadership.
As I tweeted the other day, how has there not been an offer for full prorated salaries but with heavy deferrals, particularly for the highest-paid players? Where is the offer of a pay cut, but no CBT for two years, or some other kind of significant concession by the owners? And by the way, either side could be proposing things like this.
The beauty of the March deal was its simplicity and the fact that it contained big, important concessions for both sides. The owners had a very low floor on 2020 salaries, but gave up the service time for it. Both sides got important wins. They could take it back to their side and say we got a win. THAT is how negotiating happens. (Of course, the major problem is that they left the huge ambiguity regarding pay for games with no fans...)
I now believe more than ever we're getting a significant work stoppage in 2022.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jun 10, 2020 10:53:12 GMT -5
Honestly, the players' proposals haven't been much better. Their principled stance on not accepting anything less than prorated pay is pretty crazy, because they are doing so in order to avoid setting a precedent for future negotiations. This is the definition of exigent circumstances. How is it a precedent???This is the lawyer in me coming out, but there has been zero creativity in bargaining by either side. When negotiating, you're not going to get to a resolution unless you give the other side a reason to say "Yes," even to part of the proposal. When you submit offers that give the other side nothing to agree to, it just angers them. These sides badly need a mediator and/or new leadership. As I tweeted the other day, how has there not been an offer for full prorated salaries but with heavy deferrals, particularly for the highest-paid players? Where is the offer of a pay cut, but no CBT for two years, or some other kind of significant concession by the owners? And by the way, either side could be proposing things like this. The beauty of the March deal was its simplicity and the fact that it contained big, important concessions for both sides. The owners had a very low floor on 2020 salaries, but gave up the service time for it. Both sides got important wins. They could take it back to their side and say we got a win. THAT is how negotiating happens. (Of course, the major problem is that they left the huge ambiguity regarding pay for games with no fans...) I now believe more than ever we're getting a significant work stoppage in 2022. Maybe it has more to do as much with how they have been treated in the recent past, as opposed to just future bargaining stakes. Besides the issue of why they should accept anything less that what the prorated salary isn't on their radar,tThey want to get paid, i don't see a problem there. This all is interrelated, the players having had their shares of revenue suppressed over the last decade or so. If the owners hadn't initiated new business models that allowed for that, I don't think we would have this problem at all. The players are obviously angry from previous treatment. We can blame them for singing the pvs agreement, but if they feel good faith has gone out the window, they are gonna take a stand.
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Post by Coreno on Jun 10, 2020 11:18:52 GMT -5
I agree the PA is prioritizing not getting screwed over actually negotiating. I think they realize that their leadership has failed them in recent years and they are so afraid to concede anything to the owners.
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