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Post by dcb26 on Jun 21, 2020 10:24:27 GMT -5
As a fan, I definitely prefer to keep the long extra inning games. They are one of my favorite representations of the "it ain't over 'til it's over" nature of the game, which is a main reason why I have always loved baseball over the other sports. That said, I would definitely prefer ties (assuming they played at least a couple of extra innings first) to the runner on 2nd idea. One step above having a game clock at that point. A lot has happened with baseball in the last couple of years to tell me they no longer want me as a fan of the sport, but 12-inning ties wouldn't be a major problem for me.
I have to say though, to the situation where a team is worn down by a long extra inning game and burns through their bullpen and has to turn around and play a day game the next day - who wants to see that? I do. That's honestly one of my favorite situations in the game: A big series in the middle of the season where the Yankees just played 17 in Tampa the night before and are coming into Fenway - and they're the Yankees so somehow they managed to win that game and do it without using their two best relievers - but as a Sox fan we know if we can just get their starter out early and into the middle relievers, we could swing the entire 3-game series to our advantage in the first few innings? I love that. And I will be even more excited when the situation is reversed, to see if the Sox can overcome the extras and pull out a big win or two. And if all of that means I watch Hector Velazquez throw an extra couple of innings when he's not at his best? I'm completely OK with that. I like to believe that depth matters, and I don't need to see only the best players at their peak level of performance every night to enjoy the sport.
Again, I get it, and don't think 12-inning ties would be crazy or awful - but it's certainly not crazy to prefer to see the games played out, either.
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Post by sarasoxer on Jun 21, 2020 11:52:27 GMT -5
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 22, 2020 10:10:44 GMT -5
I don't buy the wear out your bullpen theory, that's what makes great teams great they have very good pitching depth. Now crazy long games is an issue, yet ties fells like a stop gap measure that doesn't actually fix the problem. Speed up the games, so extra innings doesn't mean five hour games. Heck place a guy at third if you need to after say 12 innings. Just determine a winner. Trying to find values for ties is a joke. See I think starting innings with runners on base is far more of a joke than ending a game in a tie. You're saying you'd rather a game be decided by luck (start inning with runner on second, BS broken-bat flare can end the game, for example) than end in a tie? We'll probably have to agree to disagree there. So a hit is luck now? Both teams get a chance and the point of games is one team wins and one team doesn't.
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Post by costpet on Jun 22, 2020 10:33:58 GMT -5
Odds of a season this year...I give it 70-30 with the 70 being against. Anyone else?
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Post by Oregon Norm on Jun 22, 2020 10:37:52 GMT -5
A hit - fluke or otherwise - with a runner at second is a much different proposition than one that requires a team to get to that position on their own. It changes the probability of scoring dramatically and makes it more likely that a seeing eye grounder brings the game to an end. It would change the array of probabilities associated with base/out states and change the game significantly. It's easy to imagine "specialists" - speedsters who's only role is to stress the hell out of the infield, or players who have a high proportion of fly balls in their repertoire. That's what this would mean. Some may be ok with it but we should all be clear about the implications.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jun 22, 2020 11:38:04 GMT -5
Odds of a season this year...I give it 70-30 with the 70 being against. Anyone else? I think it 50-50, because of the acrimony and the CoVid. I do think that there will be no fans at games until 2021.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 22, 2020 12:02:47 GMT -5
A hit - fluke or otherwise - with a runner at second is a much different proposition than one that requires a team to get to that position on their own. It changes the probability of scoring dramatically and makes it more likely that a seeing eye grounder brings the game to an end. It would change the array of probabilities associated with base/out states and change the game significantly. It's easy to imagine "specialists" - speedsters who's only role is to stress the hell out of the infield, or players who have a high proportion of fly balls in their repertoire. That's what this would mean. Some may be ok with it but we should all be clear about the implications. That's kinda of the charm of it. After eliminating the DH in the NL, it adds back a little bit of why the NL didn't want a DH. Game plans and using the bench in a way you just don't see in the AL. The point is to increase the odds so a game ends sooner and this adds a new element. It's 100% fair unlike the NFL rules where a coin flop or 100% luck gave you a chance to end the game. This with the bullpen rules and now DH in the national league and the games should be quicker with more scoring. Now maybe everyone doesn't like that, yet most fans do. Increased scoring has only helped the NBA and NFL. While Hockey keeps falling farther behind.
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Post by incandenza on Jun 22, 2020 13:36:12 GMT -5
Odds of a season this year...I give it 70-30 with the 70 being against. Anyone else? My wild guesses would be: 70% chance of an agreement to get the season started 50% chance it gets as far as playing spring (summer?) training games without shutting down 40% chance it gets as far as regular season games getting played 33% chance they complete a season
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Post by patford on Jun 22, 2020 14:02:51 GMT -5
They should write off the season. Way too many uncertainties with the virus. Why start a gimmicky "season" when it would not at all be surprising if by the Fall it was advisable to shut things down again ?
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 22, 2020 14:14:39 GMT -5
Sounds like the vote that results in an agreement (unlikely) or Manfred ordering the season (more likely) is happening today and there are last second negotiations going on.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jun 22, 2020 16:07:55 GMT -5
They should write off the season. Way too many uncertainties with the virus. Why start a gimmicky "season" when it would not at all be surprising if by the Fall it was advisable to shut things down again ? For one thing, the scores of people whose livelihoods depend on there being baseball games betting played having a job and income.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 22, 2020 18:29:31 GMT -5
Well, as always it's a pleasure.
Players vote 33-5 to tell the owners to go to hell with their latest proposal.
So now it's squarely in the hands of the owners' puppet Rob Manfred to start the season and surprise, surprise:
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Post by soxfaninnj on Jun 22, 2020 19:55:40 GMT -5
Baseball is back!!!!!!!
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Jun 23, 2020 6:05:41 GMT -5
In a way I'm happy. But honestly this is very selfish of the owners and Manfred. All of the sports commissioners are putting lives at risk when there is still a fatal disease being carried around. Baseball is not important enough to justify breaking quarantine and I say that as a 30+ year old who that has been a fan his entire life. We all need to stay home until a vaccine is made. Businesses are opening up way too soon. The coronavirus obviously is more likely to kill the elderly but what happens when/if it kills a popular player during the "season". Will it have been worth it?
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Post by ghostofrussgibson on Jun 23, 2020 6:38:45 GMT -5
Assuming there really is a season, will we see a .400 hitter?
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Post by chrisfromnc on Jun 23, 2020 8:20:40 GMT -5
Assuming there really is a season, will we see a .400 hitter? JBJ?
Considering the streakiness of his hitting it is not out of the question. Or he could be below the Mendoza line.
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Post by 1toolplayer on Jun 23, 2020 8:28:38 GMT -5
In a way I'm happy. But honestly this is very selfish of the owners and Manfred. All of the sports commissioners are putting lives at risk when there is still a fatal disease being carried around. Baseball is not important enough to justify breaking quarantine and I say that as a 30+ year old who that has been a fan his entire life. We all need to stay home until a vaccine is made. Businesses are opening up way too soon. The coronavirus obviously is more likely to kill the elderly but what happens when/if it kills a popular player during the "season". Will it have been worth it? This is reading as if the players don't want to play. The players wanted to play and play more games then proposed, so hard to say its very selfish of the owners and Manfred, when the majority on both sides, want to play. KBO has been playing for 6 weeks already, NBP just started as well. They can play and still practice enough caution to be safe. I think the majority of the public needs to continue to be diligent as well, esp the non mask wearing neanderthals need to go away.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jun 23, 2020 9:29:27 GMT -5
Well, as always it's a pleasure. Players vote 33-5 to tell the owners to go to hell with their latest proposal. So now it's squarely in the hands of the owners' puppet Rob Manfred to start the season and surprise, surprise: Reminder, as always, to more or less ignore Bob Nightengale unless confirmed by another, more reputable reporter.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 23, 2020 9:51:37 GMT -5
Well, as always it's a pleasure. Players vote 33-5 to tell the owners to go to hell with their latest proposal. So now it's squarely in the hands of the owners' puppet Rob Manfred to start the season and surprise, surprise: Reminder, as always, to more or less ignore Bob Nightengale unless confirmed by another, more reputable reporter. I look at it this way. Usually it's good to pay attention to Nightengale, because whatever he says, the opposite is most likely to happen.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 23, 2020 10:06:47 GMT -5
I can't tell if this was finally the players association being smart or they just started the labor war early and did nothing put piss off the owners for no reason. So much talk of them taking the league to Court claiming they didn't act in good faith and how it could be a billion plus lawsuit. Yet it seems the players plan was always for this to happen, so they can try and gain leverage with a lawsuit. Reports of 6-8 owners not even wanting a season because they don't want to deal with a lawsuit. Yet I'm not sure how you can sue the league claiming they didn't negotiate in good faith, if your whole plan was trying to create leverage by being able to file a lawsuit. It's going to be interesting.
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Post by grandsalami on Jun 23, 2020 10:47:08 GMT -5
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Post by Smittyw on Jun 23, 2020 13:38:27 GMT -5
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jun 23, 2020 15:53:26 GMT -5
Constant...they are looking to lessen the blow back when they make it normal. I don't really know what to say on this. I was at a July 2018 Sox V MFY game. It was hot. Went 17 innings (Sale started and dominated). 6 Hours. BY the time it was over, had a hard time finding a place to drink and eat. I don't claim to know the answer, and that is a rare occurance, but something probably ought to be done.
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Post by greenmonster on Jun 23, 2020 17:34:46 GMT -5
Think about the drama, suspense, and excitement of the 2004 ALCS... Game 4 was 12 innings and lasted into the wee hours of the morning. Game 5 was 14 innings and lasted into the wee hours of the morning. I was emotionally and physically tired at work the next day(s) and couldn't wipe the smile off my face.
1975 WS Game 6 went 12 innings before Fisk went off the foul pole! 2003 ALCS Game 7 went 11 innings before Aaron F'n Boone broke my heart
These games were filled with some of the best moments in baseball history. I personally am very disappointed to hear about the extra inning rule change.
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Post by Coreno on Jun 23, 2020 18:14:29 GMT -5
Those are postseason all games. They are not applicable to the topic at hand.
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