|
Post by dyoungteach on Apr 16, 2021 17:37:24 GMT -5
Yup can’t miss to have significant value. Seems you might need to brush up on that deductive reasoning and being able to tell what someone means. Sorry you think that’s so preposterous and fail to see that prospects have been traded before early and fetched some major value or that they have and are top 100 rated prospects already. Just hint: when you assume.... well you know completion of that saying. Try not doing that. It will make life easier for you It's not deductive reasoning, Sherlock. It's not what you were trying to say. It's what you said. It's what the words mean and and what everyone else thinks they mean. You don't get to have an idiolect. Not going to comment anymore. Yeah it’s probably best you don’t comment anymore with your assumptions, inability to see someone else’s thoughts, and aggressive attack. I agree. What I said is they are can’t miss and you disagree with what can’t miss means. Ok. Move on. But don’t make assumptions on what I’m saying ..... moving on. I was interested to read the fangraphs chat and hear him saying “ it’s a deep draft” yet at least 2 other places have stated it’s a weak draft.
|
|
|
Post by vermontsox1 on Apr 16, 2021 18:50:36 GMT -5
ESPN broadcast has him a couple ticks lower than that.
|
|
|
Post by evanstonredsox on Apr 16, 2021 19:04:15 GMT -5
Kumar looks really, really good.
|
|
|
Post by James Dunne on Apr 16, 2021 19:12:49 GMT -5
This whole silly argument started because it was said that there wasn't a "can't miss prospect" at #4. You then went on define "can't miss prospect" as someone who lands in the Top 100 and has trade value, which is something like defining a camel as any animal that has legs, but I digress. Because Trey Ball was a Top 100 prospect, and at one point might have had trade value means he was a can't miss prospect? No one defines it that way, but let's humor it:
By your cockamamie definition of "can't miss prospect," the Red Sox are getting one. The player they were drafting will almost certainly be in the Top 100, and will unquestionably have more trade value in November than Ball did in June 2014 when he became trade eligible (players were not eligible to be traded for a year after the draft in those days until the Trea Turner Rule went into effect). Henry Davis, Sal Frelick, Kumar Rocker, Jordan Lawlar, and at least a half-dozen others who are in the picture at #4 are better prospects than Trey Ball were. Ergo, by the transitive property, if Trey Ball was a can't miss prospect then so is the player you are getting.
|
|
|
Post by unitspin on Apr 16, 2021 19:37:35 GMT -5
Rocker always shows up on the big stage.
|
|
|
Post by jdb on Apr 16, 2021 19:50:07 GMT -5
Rocker was hitting 94 on the ESPN gun in the 7th around 95 pitches.
|
|
|
Post by vermontsox1 on Apr 16, 2021 19:59:06 GMT -5
Rocker was hitting 94 on the ESPN gun in the 7th around 95 pitches. Yup, sounds like he was 93-95 most of his outing. Not sure what was going on with ESPN gun early in the game (had him like 91-93). He definitely looked dominant, although Tenn was barreling up some of his pitches in the 6th and 7th inning. Really assuring that the velo is back though.
|
|
TearsIn04
Veteran
Everybody knows Nelson de la Rosa, but who is Karim Garcia?
Posts: 2,951
|
Post by TearsIn04 on Apr 16, 2021 20:00:55 GMT -5
Trey Ball was a Top 100 prospect. Lars Anderson. Baseball America #19, 2009. I'm not trying to pile on anyone here (though somebody may be bringing it on himself), but the idea that any draft pick is a can't miss is silly. The best example of that was Danny Goodwin. He was drafted first overall twice and didn't do anything in The Show. The White Sox thought enough of him to take him first overall out of HS in 1971 but he went to college and was a three-time All-American and Sporting News player of the year in 1975. The Angels took him first in that year's draft. Career numbers over parts of seven seasons: 636 ABs, -1.7 WAR, .236/.301/.373/.674, OPS-plus of 84. I realize I'm late to this discussion and someone's muscles are aching from trying to move the goalposts. But I thought I'd point out that two-time Can't Miss draft pick Danny Goodwin...missed.
|
|
|
Post by iakovos11 on Apr 16, 2021 20:04:03 GMT -5
Lars Anderson. Baseball America #19, 2009. I'm not trying to pile on anyone here (though somebody may be bringing it on himself), but the idea that any draft pick is a can't miss is silly. The best example of that was Danny Goodwin. He was drafted first overall twice and didn't do anything in The Show. The White Sox thought enough of him to take him first overall out of HS in 1971 but he went to college and was a three-time All-American and Sporting News player of the year in 1975. The Angels took him first in that year's draft. Career numbers over parts of seven seasons: 636 ABs, -1.7 WAR, .236/.301/.373/.674, OPS-plus of 84. I realize I'm late to this discussion and someone's muscles are aching from trying to move the goalposts. But I thought I'd point out that two-time Can't Miss draft pick Danny Goodwin...missed. Apparently, you're not up to date on the latest definition of "can't miss."
|
|
|
Post by tyler3 on Apr 16, 2021 22:21:12 GMT -5
Kumar being back is suuuuuuch a good thing for us. Pushes down the SSs maybe. Maybe we take him maybe not....just better to have him shoving. You must be loving it unitspin....am I remembering you being a Kumar fan?
|
|
|
Post by dyoungteach on Apr 16, 2021 23:01:44 GMT -5
Lars Anderson. Baseball America #19, 2009. I'm not trying to pile on anyone here (though somebody may be bringing it on himself), but the idea that any draft pick is a can't miss is silly. The best example of that was Danny Goodwin. He was drafted first overall twice and didn't do anything in The Show. The White Sox thought enough of him to take him first overall out of HS in 1971 but he went to college and was a three-time All-American and Sporting News player of the year in 1975. The Angels took him first in that year's draft. Career numbers over parts of seven seasons: 636 ABs, -1.7 WAR, .236/.301/.373/.674, OPS-plus of 84. I realize I'm late to this discussion and someone's muscles are aching from trying to move the goalposts. But I thought I'd point out that two-time Can't Miss draft pick Danny Goodwin...missed. Because baseball is the same as it was in what 1980s? Because prospects are valued the same right?? Ah no...
|
|
|
Post by dyoungteach on Apr 16, 2021 23:02:39 GMT -5
Kumar being back is suuuuuuch a good thing for us. Pushes down the SSs maybe. Maybe we take him maybe not....just better to have him shoving. You must be loving it unitspin....am I remembering you being a Kumar fan? I agree. Always enjoy your thoughtful input
|
|
|
Post by Coreno on Apr 17, 2021 0:07:29 GMT -5
I'm not trying to pile on anyone here (though somebody may be bringing it on himself), but the idea that any draft pick is a can't miss is silly. The best example of that was Danny Goodwin. He was drafted first overall twice and didn't do anything in The Show. The White Sox thought enough of him to take him first overall out of HS in 1971 but he went to college and was a three-time All-American and Sporting News player of the year in 1975. The Angels took him first in that year's draft. Career numbers over parts of seven seasons: 636 ABs, -1.7 WAR, .236/.301/.373/.674, OPS-plus of 84. I realize I'm late to this discussion and someone's muscles are aching from trying to move the goalposts. But I thought I'd point out that two-time Can't Miss draft pick Danny Goodwin...missed. Because baseball is the same as it was in what 1980s? Because prospects are valued the same right?? Ah no...
|
|
jimoh
Veteran
Posts: 4,123
|
Post by jimoh on Apr 17, 2021 6:25:34 GMT -5
Nice to see Carlos Rodon's no-hitter after all his troubles. Finally one of the top three draft picks of 2014 has had the success you hope for with a top 3 pick (I know he had flashes before).
1. Houston, Brady Aiken, LHP, Cathedral Catholic HS, San Diego (179 minor league innings, no higher than A-ball)
2. Miami, Tyler Kolek, RHP, Shepherd (Texas) HS (163 minor league innings, no higher than A-ball)
3. Chicago White Sox, Carlos Rodon, LHP, NC State
|
|
|
Post by unitspin on Apr 17, 2021 6:26:06 GMT -5
Kumar being back is suuuuuuch a good thing for us. Pushes down the SSs maybe. Maybe we take him maybe not....just better to have him shoving. You must be loving it unitspin....am I remembering you being a Kumar fan? I was always hoping for Leiter, honestly. But Rocker to me was always the best option in the draft just never thought he would make it past the first pick in the draft. If teams let either slide, id be pretty happy with either.
|
|
|
Post by voiceofreason on Apr 17, 2021 6:42:34 GMT -5
Suffice it to say that the #4 pick has great value.
|
|
|
Post by azblue on Apr 17, 2021 11:58:46 GMT -5
At the risk of being Captain Obvious, many Hall of Fame players were drafted outside of the top 15 and hundreds of players have been drafted in the top 10 who never helped a major league team. Many top 3 draft picks have proven to be worthless. What is important is that you have a good chance to make the right pick if a team has the 4th pick in the draft.
Sometimes you draft a skinny 5-9 kid from Tennessee in the 5th round and have the $ to sign him only because you "lost" an earlier draft pick to college baseball which left you with enough money to convince the 5th-rounder to forego college.
Nolan Ryan was taken in the 12th round of the 1965 MLB draft, the 226th overall pick.
Jim Thome was drafted by the Cleveland Indians in the 13th round as the 333rd overall pick in the 1989 MLB draft.
Ryne Sandberg was taken in the 20th round of the 1978 MLB draft, the 511th overall selection, by the Philadelphia Phillies.
In the 22nd round of the 1985 MLB draft, the Detroit Tigers selected John Smoltz with the 574th overall pick.
Mike Piazza wins the grand prize of the lowest MLB draft pick in history to make it to Cooperstown. As a favor to Piazza’s father, Tommy Lasorda and the Los Angeles Dodgers drafted Piazza in the 62nd round of the 1988 MLB draft with the 1,390th pick.
There is no such thing as a can't miss draft pick. Gems can be found far outside the first round. It is about great scounting and really good luck. Pray that a prpspect does not fall prey to drugs or alcohol. Hope that your No. 1 pick does not break his hand in a bar fight and never achieve the greatness predicted for him. Pray that his shoulder and elbow hold up. Hope that your "can't miss" slugger can hit a good breaking ball and changeup. Can the pitcher drafted in the top 5 develop a third pitch?
|
|
|
Post by vermontsox1 on Apr 17, 2021 12:19:24 GMT -5
From yesterday:
Presumably to see Luke Albright, who had a poor outing. Potential 4th-5th round type.
|
|
|
Post by incandenza on Apr 17, 2021 12:40:36 GMT -5
Nice to see Carlos Rodon's no-hitter after all his troubles. Finally one of the top three draft picks of 2014 has had the success you hope for with a top 3 pick (I know he had flashes before). 1. Houston, Brady Aiken, LHP, Cathedral Catholic HS, San Diego (179 minor league innings, no higher than A-ball) 2. Miami, Tyler Kolek, RHP, Shepherd (Texas) HS (163 minor league innings, no higher than A-ball) 3. Chicago White Sox, Carlos Rodon, LHP, NC State High school pitchers didn't pan out? You don't say...
My only strong desire is for the Red Sox to not take a high school pitcher at #4. Forunately there don't seem to be any in the conversation, so I figure to be happy with whatever they do.
|
|
|
Post by gregblossersbelly on Apr 17, 2021 15:31:54 GMT -5
I didn’t realize Kumar’s dad was former football player Tracy. Gotta like that body type. Good mechanics should equate to a long career.
|
|
|
Post by orion09 on Apr 17, 2021 16:27:37 GMT -5
I didn’t realize Kumar’s dad was former football player Tracy. Gotta like that body type. Good mechanics should equate to a long career. Also a good sign to have a pro athlete in the family. I'd like to see the split on career WAR for draft choices with and without a pro athlete family member. I would think it raises the chances of having a successful career, having a close mentor/relative who's been through the process before.
|
|
jimoh
Veteran
Posts: 4,123
|
Post by jimoh on Apr 17, 2021 16:39:27 GMT -5
I didn’t realize Kumar’s dad was former football player Tracy. Gotta like that body type. Good mechanics should equate to a long career. Dad had two-year pro career.
|
|
|
Post by gregblossersbelly on Apr 17, 2021 18:08:36 GMT -5
And has coached for 20
|
|
|
Post by James Dunne on Apr 17, 2021 18:20:41 GMT -5
I didn’t realize Kumar’s dad was former football player Tracy. Gotta like that body type. Good mechanics should equate to a long career. Dad had two-year pro career. Outland Trophy winner at Auburn. He made the NFL All-Rookie team in'89 and then blew out his knee.
|
|
|
Post by jdb on Apr 18, 2021 12:41:14 GMT -5
Curious if anyone with an ESPN membership could give a recap of Kiley’s scouting report of House this week.
|
|