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Post by movaughn4evzzz on Jul 8, 2020 14:32:14 GMT -5
Hi - I haven't posted in years since soxprospects was on a different server. Just wanted to take a moment to open an account now to say how awesome this draft retrospective is. I began following the site right around this draft and it's so great to take my mind off the world and read this wonderful deep dive.
Thanks so much for all you guys do and for generating this great writing. Much appreciated right now.
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Post by James Dunne on Jul 8, 2020 22:56:29 GMT -5
I'm really happy that people are enjoying the series. It's a lot of fun to go back through these but it's also a fair amount of work, so it's heartening to know that people are getting something out of it.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jul 8, 2020 22:58:13 GMT -5
I'm really happy that people are enjoying the series. It's a lot of fun to go back through these but it's also a fair amount of work, so it's heartening to know that people are getting something so much out of it. FTFY
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Post by ramireja on Jul 9, 2020 11:51:50 GMT -5
Some 2005 and other general ramblings:
- What a great draft. I think there is a tendency for many to devalue or villify certain types of players after they leave Boston (e.g., J.D. Drew, Daisuke) despite solid contributions. It might be more likely for players whose demeanor comes off as apathetic or whose results were inconsistent. Buchholz certainly falls in that group. I appreciate this series for the chance to have a more well-rounded chance to reminisce about their playing careers. I won't forget Buchholz's dominant stretches when he would perform like an ace for 10-12 game stretch. That he ranks #11 on the Red Sox all-time K list surprised me a little. Who can forget the no-hitter in his second start.
- Craig Hansen and Cla Meredith in back-to-back drafts really opened up the floodgates for you to vent James. Nice analysis on both of those. To that end, I'm glad we didn't see Feltman in the majors last year (although who knows what his track would have looked like if he dominated AA).
- I started really following prospects right around the time when the studs from these 2004/2005 drafts (Pedey, Ellsbury, Buchholz) were making a name for themselves in the minors. That said, I wasn't super knowledgable on guys beyond the top 10 and I must have just missed Bubba Bell. I certainly recall the name given that he gets brought up here from time to time, but he wasn't a guy I was following. I was looking at his stats and they were pretty solid overall (nice approach numbers). He would have been a guy if he were around now I would have sworn would make the majors for at least a cup of coffee. I imagine quite a few people around here were let down by his trade and eventual outcome?
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jul 9, 2020 14:16:04 GMT -5
Bubba Bell has long been my poster boy for above average. No plus tools but also no weaknesses, basically average to better everywhere. I thought of him as the perfect 4th outfielder candidate.
Didn't he get injured and miss significant time when he arrived at Portland ?
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Post by ramireja on Jul 9, 2020 15:12:40 GMT -5
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jul 9, 2020 15:54:53 GMT -5
Bubba Bell has long been my poster boy for above average. No plus tools but also no weaknesses, basically average to better everywhere. I thought of him as the perfect 4th outfielder candidate. Didn't he get injured and miss significant time when he arrived at Portland ? That's right. I'd forgotten that. Injuries were an issue for him. Back maybe?
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jul 10, 2020 3:45:30 GMT -5
Maybe, back rings a Bell (sorry). He would have been sharing the injury spotlight with Kalish, your basic injury magnet.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jul 10, 2020 10:51:35 GMT -5
Be prepared for the ballad of Daniel Bard today. Dunnzo went in deep on him (justifiably so, there's a lot going on there).
Weird draft - fair amount of talent from it, but little from the 4 first rounders and little that the Red Sox actually got.
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Post by stevedillard on Jul 10, 2020 14:26:35 GMT -5
Ross Detweiller, am I right?
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jul 10, 2020 15:24:32 GMT -5
news.soxprospects.com/2020/07/revisiting-2006-draft-josh-reddick-and.htmlLink, for those not inclined to grab it themselves. It is a very important draft, though, as the first time the Red Sox org said screw it and threw a bunch of money at late-round picks. That was the strategy for years and it paid off any number of times. Also, we didn't get into it here, but funny story on Reddick was that he admitted years later that he'd have signed for whatever the club gave him, because he'd basically failed out of school. Still negotiated his way up to $140k, so good for him.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jul 10, 2020 21:22:36 GMT -5
I somewhat follow the coaches and my all time favorite Sox minors pitching coach is Mike Cather. I've never seen it written but I'd speculate that Bard's chosing to play winter ball in Hawaii where he turned his career around and Mike Cather being their pitching coach that year, wasn't coincidental.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jul 11, 2020 8:07:54 GMT -5
I somewhat follow the coaches and my all time favorite Sox minors pitching coach is Mike Cather. I've never seen it written but I'd speculate that Bard's chosing to play winter ball in Hawaii where he turned his career around and Mike Cather being their pitching coach that year, wasn't coincidental. THANK YOU. I spent an hour trying to figure out/remember who they sent with him. They absolutely sent Cather there to work with him. I'll add to the piece this morning. And to be clear, going to HWB was like going to the AFL. It wasn't something you chose to do - the team assigned you.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jul 11, 2020 9:24:42 GMT -5
Two more Cather interactions, one good, one not so good. It was Cather that taught Buchholz his change up that carried Clay to the top of the prospects charts. On the other hand, he couldn't convince Masterson to incorporate a change, something that was later to be a speed bump in Masterson's career.
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Post by James Dunne on Jul 11, 2020 9:41:29 GMT -5
Wasn't the issue with Masterson that his arm angle caused the change to just look like a slower fastball with less movement and it was a big ol' meatball so he ditched it quickly? Possible that I'm confusing him with another sidearmer though.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jul 11, 2020 9:52:40 GMT -5
Wasn't the issue with Masterson that his arm angle caused the change to just look like a slower fastball with less movement and it was a big ol' meatball so he ditched it quickly? Possible that I'm confusing him with another sidearmer though. I remember an interview with Masterson when he was still in the minors. He basically said that his coaches had always told him to go with his strength and that he felt if it ain't broke, don't fix it and he didn't feel a need for a change up. I remember being surprised by the way he stated it. He was still pretty young in people years at the time and I don't recall him ever making any major attempt at trying one.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jul 11, 2020 10:02:43 GMT -5
Wasn't the issue with Masterson that his arm angle caused the change to just look like a slower fastball with less movement and it was a big ol' meatball so he ditched it quickly? Possible that I'm confusing him with another sidearmer though. I remember an interview with Masterson when he was still in the minors. He basically said that his coaches had always told him to go with his strength and that he felt if it ain't broke, don't fix it and he didn't feel a need for a change up. I remember being surprised by the way he stated it. He was still pretty young in people years at the time and I don't recall him ever making any major attempt at trying one. ADD: Part of the reason I specifically remember the interview was because I had stereotyped him and the interview didn't fit my perception. Iirc, his parents were missionaries or preachers or he did some missionary work, so my bad there.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Jul 12, 2020 13:08:22 GMT -5
I watched Masterson pitch for Lancaster when they played in San Jose years ago. It's hard to imagine a delivery that would make it harder to throw a change-up. He wrapped his wrist and came in from the side which was just devastating to right-handed hitters. They would bury the ball in the infield over and over again. Finding a way to duplicate that motion to throw an effective change would have been very difficult I think.
The most effective pitcher we watched during that series was Michael Bowden. I imagine the team asked him to change his delivery when he was sent up to Portland because it was so slow and deliberate that I could have run on the guy. But it was that overhand motion that gave him such a tremendous drop on his pitches. It made them practically un-hittable. At least that was my take.
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Post by johnsilver52 on Jul 12, 2020 15:31:05 GMT -5
I watched Masterson pitch for Lancaster when they played in San Jose years ago. It's hard to imagine a delivery that would make it harder to throw a change-up. He wrapped his wrist and came in from the side which was just devastating to right-handed hitters. They would bury the ball in the infield over and over again. Finding a way to duplicate that motion to throw an effective change would have been very difficult I think. The most effective pitcher we watched during that series was Michael Bowden. I imagine the team asked him to change his delivery when he was sent up to Portland because it was so slow and deliberate that I could have run on the guy. But it was that overhand motion that gave him such a tremendous drop on his pitches. It made them practically un-hittable. At least that was my take. He's the one was probably most wrong about in a long time myself from seeing videos. His FB has so much drop, like a hard sinker from Bob Stanley days, only much harder. I thought he was really going to be a great starter.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jul 12, 2020 18:29:14 GMT -5
I watched Masterson pitch for Lancaster when they played in San Jose years ago. It's hard to imagine a delivery that would make it harder to throw a change-up. He wrapped his wrist and came in from the side which was just devastating to right-handed hitters. They would bury the ball in the infield over and over again. Finding a way to duplicate that motion to throw an effective change would have been very difficult I think. The most effective pitcher we watched during that series was Michael Bowden. I imagine the team asked him to change his delivery when he was sent up to Portland because it was so slow and deliberate that I could have run on the guy. But it was that overhand motion that gave him such a tremendous drop on his pitches. It made them practically un-hittable. At least that was my take. He's the one was probably most wrong about in a long time myself from seeing videos. His FB has so much drop, like a hard sinker from Bob Stanley days, only much harder. I thought he was really going to be a great starter. I think I was head cheerleader for the Michael Bowden fanboyclub. He produced an epic strikeout/groundout combination at Greenfield that I've never seen anywhere else. I rmemember raging debates on who was better, Bowden or Buchholz.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jul 12, 2020 18:55:07 GMT -5
Thinking about it, although a draft lottery sounds more fair, I doubt if MLB will do that. They are trying to sell the 2020 season as being ligitimate. Altering the draft would send the wrong signal.
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Post by James Dunne on Jul 13, 2020 10:09:46 GMT -5
I remember an interview with Masterson when he was still in the minors. He basically said that his coaches had always told him to go with his strength and that he felt if it ain't broke, don't fix it and he didn't feel a need for a change up. I remember being surprised by the way he stated it. He was still pretty young in people years at the time and I don't recall him ever making any major attempt at trying one. ADD: Part of the reason I specifically remember the interview was because I had stereotyped him and the interview didn't fit my perception. Iirc, his parents were missionaries or preachers or he did some missionary work, so my bad there. He's a missionary as well now. It's possible that the interview I'm recalling came later, and he may have just been paying lip service to the "why don't you throw a change to get lefties out" question that I'm sure got asked 1000 times in his career. I know Masterson was very well liked in general, especially by Francona.
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Post by ramireja on Jul 15, 2020 17:12:46 GMT -5
Here are the 2007 Draft picks and recap. Great job Will on the write-ups. I view this as another successful draft with Rizzo the obvious headliner. Much like 2006 and Reddick, most of the WAR accumulated by drafted/signed players was with other teams, but Rizzo did have significant trade value as a key piece for Adrian Gonzalez.
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Post by James Dunne on Jul 28, 2020 13:17:40 GMT -5
news.soxprospects.com/2020/07/2010-draft-retrospective-picks.htmlOn to 2010! For whatever reason, this draft feels so much more recent, probably because the 2008 and 2009 editions created something of a gap between the bumper classes, and because guys in this class seemed to hang around for awhile. Workman is still here and Brentz was still a guy people were pushing for in 2017. We were all going back and forth this morning talking about how much we liked this edition at the time. To me, Ranaudo felt like such a steal when he put things together in the Cape League. And Cecchini seemed so polished for a prep pick who fell to the 4th. Hope you all enjoy.
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Post by johnsilver52 on Jul 31, 2020 9:30:39 GMT -5
Whatever happened to Cecchini, the kid who raked at A ball, then could do nothing above it? Another guy I was completely wrong about and thought had a very good MLB career ahead of him early on and Sean Coyle.. Remember people here talking about his fiery attitude and comparing him to Pedroia. His profile used to mention that, may still.
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