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Are the Red Sox trying to win this year?
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Post by dmaineah on Jul 22, 2020 17:30:05 GMT -5
Are the Red Sox trying to win this year?
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Post by manfred on Jul 22, 2020 18:21:31 GMT -5
I really wonder if anyone cares. Does anyone think a “world series” Is meaningful this season? Is anyone confident we’ll make it that far?
Just seems like less entertaining spring training.
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Post by incandenza on Jul 22, 2020 18:25:23 GMT -5
I think people will consider it meaningful in whatever city wins it.
As for whether we make it that far... well the, uh, "good" news is that the pandemic is currently raging out of control in large swathes of the country, and while it is rather crazy to begin a baseball season under those circumstances, it doesn't seem likely that things will get that much worse in the next two months, so if they're gonna start they might as well finish it.
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Post by manfred on Jul 22, 2020 18:30:12 GMT -5
I think people will consider it meaningful in whatever city wins it. As for whether we make it that far... well the, uh, "good" news is that the pandemic is currently raging out of control in large swathes of the country, and while it is rather crazy to begin a baseball season under those circumstances, it doesn't seem likely that things will get that much worse in the next two months, so if they're gonna start they might as well finish it. Abstractly, I’d say it will get much worse. I work at a college: wait a month for large groups of students to return to campuses that might be in areas that have not been that bad yet. Boom. And then... winter, when respiratory issues get worse and people are even more trapped in closed spaces. I still don’t get what happens in season if guys test positive. I mean, say you are in game one of a three game series and a couple guys test positive... you send them out, but do you play the next day? And... if a team has a bunch of guys get sick? They just work their way down their farm system? It is crazy to me.
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Post by TheCerebral1 on Jul 22, 2020 19:09:32 GMT -5
With the pitching staff they have, while they might have plans on competing, winning...eh.
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TearsIn04
Veteran
Everybody knows Nelson de la Rosa, but who is Karim Garcia?
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Post by TearsIn04 on Jul 22, 2020 20:43:26 GMT -5
They are trying to win but without going over the luxury tax threshold. Since they have so much dead AAV money (Sale, $26M; Eovalid, $17M, Pedroia, $14M; numbers will be pro-rated, of course) and haven't drafted/int. signed and developed a SP in more than a decade, that leaves them with a crappy team. (If not for Price skipping the season, we'd have another $16 in pro-rated dead money.)
Given their miniscule chances of winning the WS, an ideal season would be one that lands them a top 10 pick in next year's draft and brings a top 100 prospect in a deadline deal for JBJ or BWM. And, oh yeah, I'm begging Chaim Bloom to revive the SD deal for Will Myers and a prospect.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 22, 2020 21:48:20 GMT -5
Are the Red Sox trying to win this year? The top priorities of the 2020 Red Sox are: 1) Get under the luxury tax limit to reset. 2) Get under the luxury tax limit to reset. 3) Get under the luxury tax limit to reset. 4) Get under the luxury tax limit to reset. 5) Get under the luxury tax limit to reset. 6) Get under the luxury tax limit to reset. 7) Get under the luxury tax limit to reset. 8) Get under the luxury tax limit to reset. 9) Get under the luxury tax limit to reset. 10) Winning.
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Post by dirtdog on Jul 22, 2020 22:25:06 GMT -5
Does it really matter? While I am completely irritated with the Mookie situation, the reality is that Henry has enough good will built up with 4 chips in 14 years to have a year like this occasionally. Is what it is and I'd be surprised if this better than a 30 win team this year.
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Post by jdb on Jul 23, 2020 11:08:08 GMT -5
I think the goal is obviously to win but I could see a quick pivot on Aug 31 if it’s not looking good. Not sure what type of trade market it will be but I can’t see big moves. Maybe JBJ while eating the contract, Workman and maybe Moreland while giving Dalbec ABs.
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Post by borisman on Jul 23, 2020 11:12:56 GMT -5
They may be trying to win, as is, but there's not enough pitching to carry this team to a winning record. The lineup is good though. We'll wait until next year...reload and Sale comes back around July/August.
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Post by manfred on Jul 23, 2020 11:14:24 GMT -5
I think the goal is obviously to win but I could see a quick pivot on Aug 31 if it’s not looking good. Not sure what type of trade market it will be but I can’t see big moves. Maybe JBJ while eating the contract, Workman and maybe Moreland while giving Dalbec ABs. The trade market will be interesting... see who thinks winning this year is worth a big move. I suspect the best trade partners might be found in teams who surprise and have a shot they’d not have in a full season. This might be a year for a dark horse to put together a lucky streak and ride it out. If the Mariners, for example, start like last year, maybe they go all in for a title they will never otherwise get.
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Post by incandenza on Jul 23, 2020 11:23:00 GMT -5
I think the goal is obviously to win but I could see a quick pivot on Aug 31 if it’s not looking good. Not sure what type of trade market it will be but I can’t see big moves. Maybe JBJ while eating the contract, Workman and maybe Moreland while giving Dalbec ABs. The trade market will be interesting... see who thinks winning this year is worth a big move. I suspect the best trade partners might be found in teams who surprise and have a shot they’d not have in a full season. This might be a year for a dark horse to put together a lucky streak and ride it out. If the Mariners, for example, start like last year, maybe they go all in for a title they will never otherwise get. I could see that. But one thing about having a 60-game schedule, and having the trade deadline be only halfway through it, is that there aren't gonna be many teams that are really out of it at that point; everyone will be like a 5-game winning streak away from wild card position. Plus there's sort of a depreciated value for going all in this season. All in all I'd expect a really quiet trade deadline. As for the Sox... you know, fangraphs gives them a 34% chance of making the playoffs. Not too shabby for a team that basically doesn't have a starting rotation! I think they'll be good enough to hang around in that close-enough-to-the-wild-card-position zone for most of the season. Of course they're gonna try to win.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 23, 2020 11:29:51 GMT -5
I would anticipate some trades, but nothing earth shaking. Even a team in surprise contention is unlikely to give up any future building blocks for a 2 month (if that) rental (and that assumes a completed season and post-season). It'll be let's see if we can get a sneaky good prospect who's not highly rated but could surprise kind of thing.
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Post by dmaineah on Jul 23, 2020 11:31:16 GMT -5
Any G.M. that puts together a Pitching Staff like Bloom has assembled this year is clearly & purposefully trying to have a losing season.
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Post by bellhorndingers21 on Jul 23, 2020 11:48:12 GMT -5
My only expectations are for Bloom to continue beefing up the last 10 spots of the 40 man and to be primed to select one of the top Vanderbilt pitchers in the first round next spring.
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Post by texs31 on Jul 23, 2020 12:34:11 GMT -5
Are the Red Sox trying to win this year? The top priorities of the 2020 Red Sox are: 1) Get under the luxury tax limit to reset. 2) Get under the luxury tax limit to reset. 3) Get under the luxury tax limit to reset. 4) Get under the luxury tax limit to reset. 5) Get under the luxury tax limit to reset. 6) Get under the luxury tax limit to reset. 7) Get under the luxury tax limit to reset. 8) Get under the luxury tax limit to reset. 9) Get under the luxury tax limit to reset. 10) Winning. I've already started tracking their Magic Number. It's 39 (# of days until the trade deadline when, according to reports, the tax resets - assuming they stay below it)
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Post by dmaineah on Jul 23, 2020 13:02:08 GMT -5
Are the Red Sox trying to win this year? PITCHERS (15): Matt Barnes, Ryan Brasier, Colten Brewer, Austin Brice, Dylan Covey, Nathan Eovaldi, Matt Hall, Heath Hembree, Josh Osich, Martín Pérez, Jeffrey Springs, Phillips Valdez, Marcus Walden, Ryan Weber, Brandon Workman They aren’t even trying to be competitive. I hope they surprise me.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jul 23, 2020 13:17:12 GMT -5
Chris Sale went down with Tommy John and Eduardo Rodriguez, Josh Taylor, and Darwinzon Hernandez all caught COVID-19. It was a top-heavy rotation that lost its two top starters and 2 of its top 4 or 5 relievers. Most teams' pitching staffs are going to look weak after that.
Nobody is going to argue with the fact that's a haggard-looking pitching staff. Mike just commented to me by text that he's seen Pawtucket/Portland rotations that looked better, and I agree. But the injury/sickness bug isn't helping anything by taking away 4 of the top 6 arms. To immediately default to "they're not trying" isn't remotely fair.
Keep in mind also that it also can look worse because two guys make the team on a 30-man roster that don't make a 26-man roster, and that they're going to have one or both of Johnson and/or Godley up in a week or so, most likely.
Here's a projected 13-man pitching staff when the three COVID guys come back when they cut to 26. Not world-beating, but it loses its shock value, imo.
Rodriguez, Eovaldi, Perez, Weber, Godley
Workman, Barnes, Taylor, Hernandez, Brice, Brasier, Brewer, Hembree
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Post by manfred on Jul 23, 2020 13:31:23 GMT -5
Chris Sale went down with Tommy John and Eduardo Rodriguez, Josh Taylor, and Darwinzon Hernandez all caught COVID-19. It was a top-heavy rotation that lost its two top starters and 2 of its top 4 or 5 relievers. Most teams' pitching staffs are going to look weak after that. Nobody is going to argue with the fact that's a haggard-looking pitching staff. Mike just commented to me by text that he's seen Pawtucket/Portland rotations that looked better, and I agree. But the injury/sickness bug isn't helping anything by taking away 4 of the top 6 arms. To immediately default to "they're not trying" isn't remotely fair. Keep in mind also that it also can look worse because two guys make the team on a 30-man roster that don't make a 26-man roster, and that they're going to have one or both of Johnson and/or Godley up in a week or so, most likely. Here's a projected 13-man pitching staff when the three COVID guys come back when they cut to 26. Not world-beating, but it loses its shock value, imo. Rodriguez, Eovaldi, Perez, Weber, Godley Workman, Barnes, Taylor, Hernandez, Brice, Brasier, Brewer, Hembree What is a Godley? I see this name, saw he pitched a few days ago, and wonder what bush they shook him out of. I appreciate the reasons for the staff being what is, so I am not ready to call it a conspiracy or anything, but even full strength it is shocking. Weber and this Godley fellow are low-rotation guys in AAA. Perez is a 5th starter. Eovaldi has not exactly earned much faith. ERod... no complaints when healthy. And even before Covid the staff was bad. It was not good last year, and they actually made it worse in the off season. The bullpen was frightful anyway. Brasier, Brewer, and Hembree were pretty brutal last year. Barnes and Workman are the two anchors, and they are hugely risky.
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Post by incandenza on Jul 23, 2020 13:47:13 GMT -5
Another effect of a 60-game schedule is that top of rotation starters ought to be less important. Tiring out bullpen arms shouldn't be much of an issue, so you can use the best relievers for a greater share of innings. But starters still have to rest 5 days between starts. And you could more readily do creative stuff with openers and bullpen games and the like. The Sox pitching staff is such a shambles that you wouldn't say they're advantaged by this situation, but I think it at least narrows the gap between them and the teams with strong starting rotations.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 23, 2020 13:59:18 GMT -5
Chris Sale went down with Tommy John and Eduardo Rodriguez, Josh Taylor, and Darwinzon Hernandez all caught COVID-19. It was a top-heavy rotation that lost its two top starters and 2 of its top 4 or 5 relievers. Most teams' pitching staffs are going to look weak after that. Nobody is going to argue with the fact that's a haggard-looking pitching staff. Mike just commented to me by text that he's seen Pawtucket/Portland rotations that looked better, and I agree. But the injury/sickness bug isn't helping anything by taking away 4 of the top 6 arms. To immediately default to "they're not trying" isn't remotely fair. Keep in mind also that it also can look worse because two guys make the team on a 30-man roster that don't make a 26-man roster, and that they're going to have one or both of Johnson and/or Godley up in a week or so, most likely. Here's a projected 13-man pitching staff when the three COVID guys come back when they cut to 26. Not world-beating, but it loses its shock value, imo. Rodriguez, Eovaldi, Perez, Weber, Godley Workman, Barnes, Taylor, Hernandez, Brice, Brasier, Brewer, Hembree I would think Marcus Walden gets one of those spots, maybe in place of Brice? I would guess that Johnson or more likely Covey gets E-Rod's spot down the road until E-Rod is ready. That rotation is quite sad looking.
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Post by jl1947 on Jul 23, 2020 15:11:03 GMT -5
At this point, I would bet that Bloom's strategy is to go bargain-basement hunting: - identify undervalued assets with at least one above average to plus tool, but yet unrefined; - find and acquire replacement-level place holders to install in place of traceable assets like Workman, Bradley, Pillar; - look to develop a culture of mindful maximisation of competency and competitiveness in every level of the organization; And set up a creative and intelligent growth philosophy: - continue to identify high-upside over high floor players in the draft and international signing; - improve draft position this year, and, last, but not least; - develop a creative strategy of trading by identifying the Pittsburghs of the world when they perceive themselves to be competitive and are willing to trade high-upside players they project to not be able to afford; - establish a workable plan for continued market efficiency in the payroll department so as to maximise opportunities in the free agent market when other high spenders are at to above the tax threshold, as well as afford to retain franchise talents before they reach the free agent market; - disavow any inclination to acquiesce to the desires by Henry or Warner to make any moves this year to prop up NESN ratings.
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Post by GyIantosca on Jul 23, 2020 15:59:19 GMT -5
I admit this is wishy washy but its the hand they were dealt. Everyone here would feel a lot better with Sale in the rotation. I hope they really utlize the whole roster. I mean using little patience as possible. For example Brasier short lease enough said.
But I have been dying for sports and I wish selfishly they came back sooner.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Jul 23, 2020 16:25:43 GMT -5
Any G.M. that puts together a Pitching Staff like Bloom has assembled this year is clearly & purposefully trying to have a losing season. When Bloom was hired, Chris Sale needed Tommy John surgery and he was told to get under the luxury tax. As it turned out, even if he wasn't, David Price opted out of the season anyways. So really, you want to blame Bloom when the two frontline starters weren't going to play anyways? The Red Sox want/need to get under the luxury tax. This is a stupid year anyways. It's upsetting about Betts getting an unexpected extension, but the offense is still fine without him. I mean, I'm guessing the players are going to go out there and try to win. I don't think the front office really cares about it this season.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jul 23, 2020 16:37:29 GMT -5
Chris Sale went down with Tommy John and Eduardo Rodriguez, Josh Taylor, and Darwinzon Hernandez all caught COVID-19. It was a top-heavy rotation that lost its two top starters and 2 of its top 4 or 5 relievers. Most teams' pitching staffs are going to look weak after that. Nobody is going to argue with the fact that's a haggard-looking pitching staff. Mike just commented to me by text that he's seen Pawtucket/Portland rotations that looked better, and I agree. But the injury/sickness bug isn't helping anything by taking away 4 of the top 6 arms. To immediately default to "they're not trying" isn't remotely fair. Keep in mind also that it also can look worse because two guys make the team on a 30-man roster that don't make a 26-man roster, and that they're going to have one or both of Johnson and/or Godley up in a week or so, most likely. Here's a projected 13-man pitching staff when the three COVID guys come back when they cut to 26. Not world-beating, but it loses its shock value, imo. Rodriguez, Eovaldi, Perez, Weber, Godley Workman, Barnes, Taylor, Hernandez, Brice, Brasier, Brewer, Hembree What is a Godley? I see this name, saw he pitched a few days ago, and wonder what bush they shook him out of. I appreciate the reasons for the staff being what is, so I am not ready to call it a conspiracy or anything, but even full strength it is shocking. Weber and this Godley fellow are low-rotation guys in AAA. Perez is a 5th starter. Eovaldi has not exactly earned much faith. ERod... no complaints when healthy. And even before Covid the staff was bad. It was not good last year, and they actually made it worse in the off season. The bullpen was frightful anyway. Brasier, Brewer, and Hembree were pretty brutal last year. Barnes and Workman are the two anchors, and they are hugely risky. Godley is a five-year MLB vet who had a down year last year. He was cut loose by the Tigers because they didn't want to pay him $3M this year (he was in camp on a minor league deal) to be in the rotation on a team that's going to be one of the worst in the game. He's two years removed from being a damn good starter on the Diamondbacks. I suggest taking a look at his numbers on Baseball Reference or Fangraphs.
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