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Post by soxfaninnj on Sept 2, 2020 1:05:00 GMT -5
Chapman threw 101 at someone’s head. Knowing manfred he will get zero games
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Post by manfred on Sept 2, 2020 10:12:11 GMT -5
Chapman threw 101 at someone’s head. Knowing manfred he will get zero games Completely bush league. No one on, two strikes, just airs one near his head? Gratuitous. I actually like Cash’s comment after the game: the Rays have a lot of guys who throw 98. I think we forgot Chapman when discussing Yankees we hate recently.
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Post by incandenza on Sept 2, 2020 10:37:43 GMT -5
Chapman threw 101 at someone’s head. Knowing manfred he will get zero games Completely bush league. No one on, two strikes, just airs one near his head? Gratuitous. I actually like Cash’s comment after the game: the Rays have a lot of guys who throw 98. I think we forgot Chapman when discussing Yankees we hate recently. I hate Chapman so much that I also hate Gleyber Torres because of Chapman.
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Post by manfred on Sept 2, 2020 11:37:14 GMT -5
Mookie just went over 1,000 career hits and 150 career home runs. About to cross 500 RBI.
Leads position players in WAR. Over JAWS 7-year peak for HOF RFs.
27. Probably wear Dodgers hat on his plaque.
(And screw Mike Trout: 2018-2020, Mookie has higher WAR than him).
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Post by incandenza on Sept 2, 2020 12:18:20 GMT -5
Mookie just went over 1,000 career hits and 150 career home runs. About to cross 500 RBI. Leads position players in WAR. Over JAWS 7-year peak for HOF RFs. 27. Probably wear Dodgers hat on his plaque. (And screw Mike Trout: 2018-2020, Mookie has higher WAR than him). Completely unrelatedly... did you know that the Boston Red Sox have the fourth best outfielder in the AL by fWAR? He'd be on pace for nearly 6 WAR in a full season. Here are a couple stat lines for you: .292/.354/.498, 121 wRC+ .299/.348/.488, 119 wRC+ The first line is Betts in his age 23-24 seasons combined. The second is Verdugo, in his age 23-24 seasons. The comparison is a little unfair, though, since Verdugo has had so few games to play in his age 24 season and has been better than Mookie in the comparable year and is also 7 months younger in the comparison.
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Post by manfred on Sept 2, 2020 12:24:11 GMT -5
Mookie just went over 1,000 career hits and 150 career home runs. About to cross 500 RBI. Leads position players in WAR. Over JAWS 7-year peak for HOF RFs. 27. Probably wear Dodgers hat on his plaque. (And screw Mike Trout: 2018-2020, Mookie has higher WAR than him). Completely unrelatedly... did you know that the Boston Red Sox have the fourth best outfielder in the AL by fWAR? He'd be on pace for nearly 6 WAR in a full season. Here are a couple stat lines for you: .292/.354/.498, 121 wRC+ .299/.348/.488, 119 wRC+ The first line is Betts in his age 23-24 seasons combined. The second is Verdugo, in his age 23-24 seasons. The comparison is a little unfair, though, since Verdugo has had so few games to play in his age 24 season and has been better than Mookie in the comparable year and is also 7 months younger in the comparison. That is interesting. I am sure he will follow the same arc to become the best player in baseball. But I hope not, because it will mean trading him for someone obviously worse than him.
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Post by manfred on Sept 2, 2020 12:30:29 GMT -5
By the way... not all things Mookie must become comparison. If Sox fans can’t still love Mookie and recognize his brilliance, that is sad. Even if he will be a Hall of Fame Dodger now.
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Post by incandenza on Sept 2, 2020 12:36:58 GMT -5
Completely unrelatedly... did you know that the Boston Red Sox have the fourth best outfielder in the AL by fWAR? He'd be on pace for nearly 6 WAR in a full season. Here are a couple stat lines for you: .292/.354/.498, 121 wRC+ .299/.348/.488, 119 wRC+ The first line is Betts in his age 23-24 seasons combined. The second is Verdugo, in his age 23-24 seasons. The comparison is a little unfair, though, since Verdugo has had so few games to play in his age 24 season and has been better than Mookie in the comparable year and is also 7 months younger in the comparison. That is interesting. I am sure he will follow the same arc to become the best player in baseball. But I hope not, because it will mean trading him for someone obviously worse than him. I said to myself, "you know, I bet manfred reads this comment and makes a disingenuous inference that I meant Verdugo would be just as good as Betts over the course of his career," and I wasn't disappointed. By the way, Betts put up 13.6 fWAR in those two seasons, so he was already well-established by then. And what does that imply about Verdugo? (All in good fun here, manfred. But I reserve the right to remind you that Verdugo is actually good for as long as you obstinately refuse to accept it.)
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 2, 2020 12:52:44 GMT -5
By the way... not all things Mookie must become comparison. If Sox fans can’t still love Mookie and recognize his brilliance, that is sad. Even if he will be a Hall of Fame Dodger now. You were comparing Betts war to the whole Red Sox OF at the start of the year. I think I speak for the board when I say we all want Betts to do well, yet can't take you praising him almost daily why acting like Verdugo isn't any good. Verdugo is currently #10 in fwar for OF at 1.3 in 34 games. That projects to a 5-6 fwar in a full season. That's one of the better young players in Baseball. He's literally moving into that Devers and Bogaerts range right before our eyes. No need to reply.
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Post by manfred on Sept 2, 2020 12:58:51 GMT -5
I have not said Verdugo is no good. I made fun of him early in the season, sure, but I’ve even said nice things about his play since then. I have said I don’t like him. And I don’t. For many reasons. How he got here is only one.
And I love Mookie as one of the great miracles in the history of the Sox system.
If people stop targeting me with Verdugo comments, I won’t write about him. I never bring him up except in response.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 2, 2020 13:15:33 GMT -5
This isn't the place for this. I think you need to go back and read what you said about him. You seem to have forgotten. It was bad, type of stuff you'll be getting crap for years down the line.
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Post by manfred on Sept 2, 2020 13:22:00 GMT -5
This isn't the place for this. I think you need to go back and read what you said about him. You seem to have forgotten. It was bad, type of stuff you'll be getting crap for years down the line. Very good. I will repeat: I don’t bring him up. He does not exist to me. Maybe someday he’ll be a great player and a great person and I’ll be in. But I also feel good about my likes and dislikes.
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Post by maxwellsdemon on Sept 2, 2020 13:35:22 GMT -5
I'm sure there is not a person alive who wants to be eternally judged by what they did on their worst day. I cetrainly don't want to be,nor do I want to be the one who judges others that way. Just something to consider.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Sept 2, 2020 14:34:49 GMT -5
This isn't the place for this. I think you need to go back and read what you said about him. You seem to have forgotten. It was bad, type of stuff you'll be getting crap for years down the line. Very good. I will repeat: I don’t bring him up. He does not exist to me. Maybe someday he’ll be a great player and a great person and I’ll be in. But I also feel good about my likes and dislikes. A teenage, drunken Verdugo watched 2 girls beat up another girl and either Verdugo or Baldwin, or both recorded it. That was in 2015 and Verdugo is now 24. I don't think that merits a lifetime of ill-will, unless he was accused of being involved in the other incident that occurred with her. Certainly not admirable either. It's not like he's Jon Denney who the Red Sox basically ensured wasn't going to have a real chance at being a major leaguer. I know KC gave him a chance and released him citing baseball reasons, but I can't understand that when he got a grand total of 2 games and 9 at-bats. This isn't the Red Sox first rodeo with people with bad personalities. I believe people around here still fondly remember Manny Ramirez and Orlando Cabrera. I'd say give Verdugo a chance to make up for his mistake as a drunken 19 year old.
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Post by manfred on Sept 2, 2020 14:38:33 GMT -5
Again... am out on Verdugo conversation. Didn’t raise his name, didn’t raise other stuff. Don’t care.
I love: — The Sox — Xander — Devers and on and on.
Plenty of positive to discuss.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Sept 2, 2020 16:59:14 GMT -5
Everyone move on. The number of posts by multiple posters in this particular discussion saying that they aren't going to talk about it anymore or that we should all move on is staggering.
Be willing to not have to have the last word.
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Post by soxfaninnj on Sept 2, 2020 18:24:37 GMT -5
Rays start the game with 5 straight hits and are celebrating really loud. It’s A beautiful thing to watch/hear. Chap only got 3 games lol but kelly got 8 even though chap literally threw at the guys head
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Post by James Dunne on Sept 2, 2020 19:32:12 GMT -5
Terribly sad, RIP to one of the greatest ever.
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Post by manfred on Sept 2, 2020 19:39:32 GMT -5
Terribly sad, RIP to one of the greatest ever. No! He was my first baseball hero.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 2, 2020 19:49:51 GMT -5
Terrible news. Fantastic pitcher. He brought the Mets to respectability and beyond (lead them to the 69 championship) and I still think the Sox might have won the Series with him perhaps starting Game 4 and coming out of the pen in Game 7 (or even 6?).
When Clemens was young I thought of him (pitching-wise) as the new Seaver.
Too young. I knew he was not doing well when he couldn't attend the 50th reunion of 1969. I think he had alzheimers. Awful.
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Post by redsox3in10 on Sept 2, 2020 20:06:13 GMT -5
Terribly sad, RIP to one of the greatest ever. Sad day. 2020 definitely sucks. COVID-related. Wonder if that will get much play anywhere.
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Post by manfred on Sept 3, 2020 0:02:46 GMT -5
Red Sox fans can complain about Larry Anderson and Bagwell (ok... it is a fair complaint), but years from now that will pale compared to Tatis for Shields. Tatis is off to a swell start yeah. But looking back at Big Game James’s number for the Sox? He is no Larry Anderson. Brutal.
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Post by manfred on Sept 3, 2020 12:41:19 GMT -5
I may be a bit emotional these days, but reading the list of Clemente Award nominees gets me a bit choked up. I wish I heard more about these things on a regular basis.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 3, 2020 13:10:31 GMT -5
Red Sox fans can complain about Larry Anderson and Bagwell (ok... it is a fair complaint), but years from now that will pale compared to Tatis for Shields. Tatis is off to a swell start yeah. But looking back at Big Game James’s number for the Sox? He is no Larry Anderson. Brutal. I'd point out Bagwell was a local kid from Boston who actually played A and AA ball and did well. Tatis was 17 and hadn't even played for the White Sox when they traded him. Was the 27th rated international guy, who signed for $700,000. So yeah it's going to look bad, yet Bagwell still seems like a bigger mistake. I mean Tatis was the second piece in that trade to Johnson and was just a lottery ticket that hit.
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Post by manfred on Sept 3, 2020 13:28:01 GMT -5
Red Sox fans can complain about Larry Anderson and Bagwell (ok... it is a fair complaint), but years from now that will pale compared to Tatis for Shields. Tatis is off to a swell start yeah. But looking back at Big Game James’s number for the Sox? He is no Larry Anderson. Brutal. I'd point out Bagwell was a local kid from Boston who actually played A and AA ball and did well. Tatis was 17 and hadn't even played for the White Sox when they traded him. Was the 27th rated international guy, who signed for $700,000. So yeah it's going to look bad, yet Bagwell still seems like a bigger mistake. I mean Tatis was the second piece in that trade to Johnson and was just a lottery ticket that hit. Was not really doing deep analysis. But Shields was so terrible that it must really, really sting. Of course, the ChiSox have a lot of good young talent, so that probably takes a lot of the sting out.
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