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2020 Non-Red Sox Thread
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 12, 2020 23:31:17 GMT -5
Jared Carrabis@Ja red_Carrabis · 6h Hearing Joe Kelly’s suspension was knocked down to five games. Still five games too many.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 13, 2020 9:21:37 GMT -5
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kevfc89
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Post by kevfc89 on Aug 13, 2020 22:11:39 GMT -5
so guys...Mookie just did that thing again where he hits 3 home runs in a game.
Ties the major league record held by Sosa and Mize with 6 3-home run games in his career. What a player.
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Post by sdiaz1 on Aug 13, 2020 22:31:02 GMT -5
so guys...Mookie just did that thing again where he hits 3 home runs in a game. Ties the major league record held by Sosa and Mize with 6 3-home run games in his career. What a player. Higher WAR at the end of the year - Mookie Betts or the Red Sox sans Xander & JDM?
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Post by manfred on Aug 13, 2020 23:19:33 GMT -5
so guys...Mookie just did that thing again where he hits 3 home runs in a game. Ties the major league record held by Sosa and Mize with 6 3-home run games in his career. What a player. Higher WAR at the end of the year - Mookie Betts or the Red Sox sans Xander & JDM? Mookie at the end of this season or Verdugo at the end of next season?
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Post by Don Caballero on Aug 13, 2020 23:43:47 GMT -5
so guys...Mookie just did that thing again where he hits 3 home runs in a game. Ties the major league record held by Sosa and Mize with 6 3-home run games in his career. What a player. I miss him so much.
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Post by stevedillard on Aug 14, 2020 5:51:01 GMT -5
so guys...Mookie just did that thing again where he hits 3 home runs in a game. Ties the major league record held by Sosa and Mize with 6 3-home run games in his career. What a player. Higher WAR at the end of the year - Mookie Betts or the Red Sox sans Xander & JDM? So you're saying he has an extensive record of padding his WAR value in games in which his team only get one actual win?
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ianrs
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Posts: 2,414
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Post by ianrs on Aug 14, 2020 6:52:32 GMT -5
so guys...Mookie just did that thing again where he hits 3 home runs in a game. Ties the major league record held by Sosa and Mize with 6 3-home run games in his career. What a player. Man, what I would do to get a player like him on the Sox. Wait...
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Post by manfred on Aug 14, 2020 8:07:58 GMT -5
so guys...Mookie just did that thing again where he hits 3 home runs in a game. Ties the major league record held by Sosa and Mize with 6 3-home run games in his career. What a player. Man, what I would do to get a player like him on the Sox. Wait... Every time I feel like it is time to move on, there is a new wave of nausea. This must be what it was like in Edmonton when they traded Gretzky. It is the only comparison I can think of in my lifetime. Except Jimmy Carson was actually good for a few years.
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Post by stevedillard on Aug 14, 2020 8:16:13 GMT -5
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Post by manfred on Aug 14, 2020 8:20:49 GMT -5
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 14, 2020 9:27:45 GMT -5
Man, what I would do to get a player like him on the Sox. Wait... Every time I feel like it is time to move on, there is a new wave of nausea. This must be what it was like in Edmonton when they traded Gretzky. It is the only comparison I can think of in my lifetime. Except Jimmy Carson was actually good for a few years. Imagine being a Red Sox fan 100 years ago after they sold Babe Ruth to the Yankees. Management says they they cannot afford him, will spread the money around, and have a better overall team. Yet they go from a Championship in '18 to mediocrity in '19 to start their descent in the 20s. It's not a perfect parallel, obviously, and the 1920 Red Sox were actually more mediocre than terrible like the 2020 Red Sox. The 1920s Sox went belly-up as the decade progressed. Hopefully the Sox have already done that this decade and 2021 won't be worse.
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Post by manfred on Aug 14, 2020 9:34:12 GMT -5
Every time I feel like it is time to move on, there is a new wave of nausea. This must be what it was like in Edmonton when they traded Gretzky. It is the only comparison I can think of in my lifetime. Except Jimmy Carson was actually good for a few years. Imagine being a Red Sox fan 100 years ago after they sold Babe Ruth to the Yankees. Management says they they cannot afford him, will spread the money around, and have a better overall team. Yet they go from a Championship in '18 to mediocrity in '19 to start their descent in the 20s. It's not a perfect parallel, obviously, and the 1920 Red Sox were actually more mediocre than terrible like the 2020 Red Sox. The 1920s Sox went belly-up as the decade progressed. Hopefully the Sox have already done that this decade and 2021 won't be worse. Having seen multiple WS champs, I am ready for another curse.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Aug 14, 2020 11:03:56 GMT -5
Every time I feel like it is time to move on, there is a new wave of nausea. This must be what it was like in Edmonton when they traded Gretzky. It is the only comparison I can think of in my lifetime. Except Jimmy Carson was actually good for a few years. Imagine being a Red Sox fan 100 years ago after they sold Babe Ruth to the Yankees. Management says they they cannot afford him, will spread the money around, and have a better overall team. Yet they go from a Championship in '18 to mediocrity in '19 to start their descent in the 20s. It's not a perfect parallel, obviously, and the 1920 Red Sox were actually more mediocre than terrible like the 2020 Red Sox. The 1920s Sox went belly-up as the decade progressed. Hopefully the Sox have already done that this decade and 2021 won't be worse. I mean, not to state the obvious here, but selling a player to finance a play is different than trying to get value for a player they didn't think they were going to be able to re-sign. Think about it. Right now people want to trade literally everyone on the team. There's not a single player whose name I haven't seen thrown out there. I guarantee you there would be a contingent of people begging the Red Sox to trade Mookie Betts for the best possible return.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 14, 2020 11:06:44 GMT -5
Imagine being a Red Sox fan 100 years ago after they sold Babe Ruth to the Yankees. Management says they they cannot afford him, will spread the money around, and have a better overall team. Yet they go from a Championship in '18 to mediocrity in '19 to start their descent in the 20s. It's not a perfect parallel, obviously, and the 1920 Red Sox were actually more mediocre than terrible like the 2020 Red Sox. The 1920s Sox went belly-up as the decade progressed. Hopefully the Sox have already done that this decade and 2021 won't be worse. Having seen multiple WS champs, I am ready for another curse. I'm not. I don't mind a few down years if they're done with the purpose of rebuilding towards the goal of a sustainable run of excellence that gives them the best chance of winning the championship again. As very thankful I am that I have witnessed the glory, I'd hate to think that I've already seen my last Red Sox championship already. Besides I just missed out on my dream of watching them win with my son. He did witness the Nats winning last year (my wife was asleep) but he was in bed sleeping when the Sox won in 2018 and there was no way my wife was going to let me wake him up for that - that night (sigh) - so I still have an overwhelming desire to see them win it all again! Besides every time they win, I get to redecorate my Red Sox shrine room. (A concept very foreign to me growing up)
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Post by manfred on Aug 14, 2020 11:12:13 GMT -5
Imagine being a Red Sox fan 100 years ago after they sold Babe Ruth to the Yankees. Management says they they cannot afford him, will spread the money around, and have a better overall team. Yet they go from a Championship in '18 to mediocrity in '19 to start their descent in the 20s. It's not a perfect parallel, obviously, and the 1920 Red Sox were actually more mediocre than terrible like the 2020 Red Sox. The 1920s Sox went belly-up as the decade progressed. Hopefully the Sox have already done that this decade and 2021 won't be worse. I mean, not to state the obvious here, but selling a player to finance a play is different than trying to get value for a player they didn't think they were going to be able to re-sign. Think about it. Right now people want to trade literally everyone on the team. There's not a single player whose name I haven't seen thrown out there. I guarantee you there would be a contingent of people begging the Red Sox to trade Mookie Betts for the best possible return. Not me. I argued before to go to the wire with him. If he left because he refused a huge contract, you knew he wanted out (which don’t know now). But we’d have lucked into a change in market conditions. I don’t believe Betts would have passed on the deal the Dodgers gave him if the Sox had offered it. And as I said long ago, with an all-time great, you do everything to keep him. Not quit with a year left on his contract for pennies on the dollar. My advocacy of a sell-off is IN LIGHT of dumping Mookie. Once you’ve traded your generational talent for a slappsy right-fielder and the hope of a first-division second baseman, why stop there? The Sox quit on this season when they made that trade. I’d add, too, that David Price was no slouch. Pre-opting out, he would have been by far the best pitcher on the Sox. So trading your best pitcher and your best player for what they got... I’d rather have the play. It might have been more entertaining that the baseball this team plays.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 14, 2020 11:12:13 GMT -5
Imagine being a Red Sox fan 100 years ago after they sold Babe Ruth to the Yankees. Management says they they cannot afford him, will spread the money around, and have a better overall team. Yet they go from a Championship in '18 to mediocrity in '19 to start their descent in the 20s. It's not a perfect parallel, obviously, and the 1920 Red Sox were actually more mediocre than terrible like the 2020 Red Sox. The 1920s Sox went belly-up as the decade progressed. Hopefully the Sox have already done that this decade and 2021 won't be worse. I mean, not to state the obvious here, but selling a player to finance a play is different than trying to get value for a player they didn't think they were going to be able to re-sign. Think about it. Right now people want to trade literally everyone on the team. There's not a single player whose name I haven't seen thrown out there. I guarantee you there would be a contingent of people begging the Red Sox to trade Mookie Betts for the best possible return. My response was more tongue in cheek than deadly serious. There are some weird historic parallels and I love Mookie, but to equate him with Ruth and say that the Dodgers have now guaranteed themselves 27 championships next century and the Sox are doomed to another 86 years of failure (well, I won't be around to know that) - no, not serious at all. The only seriousness I have is what most people share - glad that if they were going to lose Mookie that they got something of value for him, but extremely annoyed they put themselves in this situation to begin with - and I will always wonder what would have happened had the Sox put down a 10 or 11 year $365 million dollar offer in front of him as a counter when they offered 10 years, $320 million and they countered with 12 years $420 million. If the Red Sox offered to meet in the middle and Mookie didn't accept it, it would have been a lot easier for me to swallow that he's gone and I wouldn't have blamed the Sox FO at all. But the fact that they never counteroffered what I thought it would take to sign him - I always thought he was going to sign for Trout's total $ - is bothersome to me, especially because I doubt we'll ever see a player that excelled in as many phases as the game as Mookie Betts does and he's the kind of guy a big market team that's well supported like the Red Sox should NEVER lose and should build around, not divest themselves of.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Aug 14, 2020 11:28:36 GMT -5
Fair
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Aug 14, 2020 12:22:36 GMT -5
i mean, if it doesn't hurt a person to see him hit 3 HR's in another uniform, i would have to question that person's Sox fandom. It will happen with regularity (pain, grief), because he is such a phenomenal player. We likely won't see a homegrown player like him for a decade or 2, if at all.
Manfred and Don Caballero have been on point on how much pain this can cause. Upon review, you have to ask yourself, why were the Dodgers able to offer that price, but not the Sox ? Is it because they have more money ? Is the Sox franchise less solvent ?
It has been discussed enough, we don't really have to go there. But it is easy to see from my perspective, there will be constant reminders of what we have lost.
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Post by manfred on Aug 14, 2020 19:33:52 GMT -5
Wow. Clevinger and Plesac optioned. That is a gutsy move by the club to put discipline over winning. I really respect it.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 14, 2020 20:02:05 GMT -5
i mean, if it doesn't hurt a person to see him hit 3 HR's in another uniform, i would have to question that person's Sox fandom. It will happen with regularity (pain, grief), because he is such a phenomenal player. We likely won't see a homegrown player like him for a decade or 2, if at all. Manfred and Don Caballero have been on point on how much pain this can cause. Upon review, you have to ask yourself, why were the Dodgers able to offer that price, but not the Sox ? Is it because they have more money ? Is the Sox franchise less solvent ? It has been discussed enough, we don't really have to go there. But it is easy to see from my perspective, there will be constant reminders of what we have lost. Not so sure about your first point. I always root for Sox developed players (Reddick excepted) unless they are on the Yankees or playing against us. I want Mookie to succeed.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 14, 2020 20:40:33 GMT -5
I mean, not to state the obvious here, but selling a player to finance a play is different than trying to get value for a player they didn't think they were going to be able to re-sign. Think about it. Right now people want to trade literally everyone on the team. There's not a single player whose name I haven't seen thrown out there. I guarantee you there would be a contingent of people begging the Red Sox to trade Mookie Betts for the best possible return. My response was more tongue in cheek than deadly serious. There are some weird historic parallels and I love Mookie, but to equate him with Ruth and say that the Dodgers have now guaranteed themselves 27 championships next century and the Sox are doomed to another 86 years of failure (well, I won't be around to know that) - no, not serious at all. The only seriousness I have is what most people share - glad that if they were going to lose Mookie that they got something of value for him, but extremely annoyed they put themselves in this situation to begin with - and I will always wonder what would have happened had the Sox put down a 10 or 11 year $365 million dollar offer in front of him as a counter when they offered 10 years, $320 million and they countered with 12 years $420 million. If the Red Sox offered to meet in the middle and Mookie didn't accept it, it would have been a lot easier for me to swallow that he's gone and I wouldn't have blamed the Sox FO at all. But the fact that they never counteroffered what I thought it would take to sign him - I always thought he was going to sign for Trout's total $ - is bothersome to me, especially because I doubt we'll ever see a player that excelled in as many phases as the game as Mookie Betts does and he's the kind of guy a big market team that's well supported like the Red Sox should NEVER lose and should build around, not divest themselves of. On paper, I can't disagree with that. The problem is that we only know what happened not how it happened. If Mookie & his agent were adamant that they thought that was his value and they fully intended to test the market at that rate then the negotiations are over. On the other hand, if Mookie and his agent saw the writing on the wall that salaries are likely to take a sharp dip because of Covid then the Dodger offer came into their adjusted range. We really don't know.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 14, 2020 21:12:56 GMT -5
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Post by manfred on Aug 14, 2020 21:22:39 GMT -5
After hearing about Plesac’s grousing, I’ve come around on his possible availability. Now... I’ve also grown less sure I want him!
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 14, 2020 21:40:12 GMT -5
After hearing about Plesac’s grousing, I’ve come around on his possible availability. Now... I’ve also grown less sure I want him! Pluko's comments about a week ago made me think they'd be traded. He didn't pull any punches (specifically mentioned the risk to Carrasco (leukmia) and coaches (Francona's health issues) and really, Clevinger is the far bigger dirtbag here. If the Sox do trade for them, I don't want to see either in Boston in 2020. That would keep control for a year longer and help with the draft situation. 2021 would be too big a penalty for them to pay.
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