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Christian Vazquez Trade Ideas
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Post by agastonguay13 on Aug 14, 2020 21:25:52 GMT -5
I guess the more I chew on it, the more I like moving Vazquez. I like him ok, but I also think he's hitting above his ceiling right now, which artificially inflates his value. He's showing good power, and I don't think he holds on to that power for very long. Just a hunch. You have Plawecki under control for 3 more years, I feel like I'm ok with him as a defensive stopgap and maybe Lucroy gets a real shot after the Vazquez trade and returns to form a little bit. I think a catching prospect has to be on their list no matter what this deadline.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 15, 2020 10:55:20 GMT -5
If Vazquez goes to SD, I want Campusano back. I'm out on Mejia. How about Vazquez and Workman for Myers, Hedges, Campusano, one of the however many arms (Weathers/Quantrill/Lucchesi, whatever), Head, Cronenworth? Too much? Kind of half-assed that one. I wouldn't say too much depending on how much of Myers contract you take. You'd have to pay a very large portion of it, heck you might need to pay every dollar. Yet we need a big deal to move him. Depending on the arm you pick, say Weather's, you're looking at more rebuild than retool no? Campusano, Head and Weather's would be years away. Did something happen to Mejia? Reports say his D has greatly improved, DRS backs that up and the guy has hit very well in the minors. Heck he hit well last year in the majors. This kinda looks like a perfect time to buy low. Padres have Mejia, Quantrill, Morejon, Baez, and Naylor by my count as former top 100 guys they would likely move. Buy low guys, the prospect shine is gone unlike Campusano, Weather's and Head. I don't mind your guys, heck maybe that's the better pool of guys. It just makes going for it in 2021 and 2022 harder. Catchers take a long time to develop, heck look at Vazquez and you're targeting guys they likely don't want to trade.
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Post by soxaddict on Aug 25, 2020 2:08:59 GMT -5
If Vazquez goes to SD, I want Campusano back. I'm out on Mejia. How about Vazquez and Workman for Myers, Hedges, Campusano, one of the however many arms (Weathers/Quantrill/Lucchesi, whatever), Head, Cronenworth? Too much? Kind of half-assed that one. This right here. Vazquez and Barnes for Myers, Hedges, Campusano, Quantrill, Head and Croenworth.
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jdb
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Post by jdb on Aug 27, 2020 12:14:27 GMT -5
With the Mets apparently interest would you do Vazquez/Perez for Ramos (money dump) Andres Gimenez, Matthew Allen and a 3rd piece with some upside probably a recent J2 guy? Like Alexander Ramirez?
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 27, 2020 12:44:58 GMT -5
With the Mets apparently interest would you do Vazquez/Perez for Ramos (money dump) Andres Gimenez, Matthew Allen and a 3rd piece with some upside probably a recent J2 guy? Like Alexander Ramirez? No. Gimenez's value is at being a very good defensive SS, we have a very good SS. I don't mind Allen and Ramirez yet they are young, far away risky upside guys. Wow that system is bad. I would need Alvarez, yet he's also very young and risky. Not having played above rookie ball. That's not a farm system I want to raid, yet it does make me feel better about our farm system.
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jdb
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Post by jdb on Aug 27, 2020 18:02:49 GMT -5
I think this is the first time I’ve disagreed with you this season. To me they have some good up the middle prospects, some big money J2 guys and Ginn/Allen/Wolf could be top tier guys next year and all got huge money.
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Post by rjp313jr on Aug 28, 2020 8:21:04 GMT -5
There’s plenty reason to think this team can be a WS contender next season. Sale and Erod are huge additions (potentially) and they’ll have money to spend and other teams will be pretty hamstrung money wise. It’s actually a great opportunity for them.
I get all the questions etc, but acting like this team is devoid of talent and a path for 2021 is just not accurate.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 28, 2020 11:20:23 GMT -5
I think this is the first time I’ve disagreed with you this season. To me they have some good up the middle prospects, some big money J2 guys and Ginn/Allen/Wolf could be top tier guys next year and all got huge money. If I deal Vazquez I need to get a catcher back and I'd prefer guys that are ready or close to ready. A guy like Mejia could be a very good catcher next year. He hit in the minors, he hit last year. He's just had 20 bad games, which happens all the time. Quantrill and Morejon are both in the majors, all three are former top 100 guys. It's not that those guys in the Mets system can't be good. They are risky long-term guys. Even if it works out, they are like four years away if not longer. The one guy that is ready plays SS. He's not horrible at all, yet where do you play him? That's a long-term rebuild type trade. Not a retool type trade. I say this because finding even decent catchers isn't easy. If Bloom blows it up and trades Bogaerts, then we can talk about trades like this. I just don't see that happening.
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Post by rjp313jr on Aug 28, 2020 11:33:56 GMT -5
I don’t think going into a trade saying you need to get back a catcher is the best way to do it. Limits you too much. Are you really going to take a lesson return so you get a catcher back?
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 28, 2020 11:34:28 GMT -5
I think this is the first time I’ve disagreed with you this season. To me they have some good up the middle prospects, some big money J2 guys and Ginn/Allen/Wolf could be top tier guys next year and all got huge money. If I deal Vazquez I need to get a catcher back and I'd prefer guys that are ready or close to ready. A guy like Mejia could be a very good catcher next year. He hit in the minors, he hit last year. He's just had 20 bad games, which happens all the time. Quantrill and Morejon are both in the majors, all three are former top 100 guys. It's not that those guys in the Mets system can't be good. They are risky long-term guys. Even if it works out, they are like four years away if not longer. The one guy that is ready plays SS. He's not horrible at all, yet where do you play him? That's a long-term rebuild type trade. Not a retool type trade. I say this because finding even decent catchers isn't easy. If Bloom blows it up and trades Bogaerts, then we can talk about trades like this. I just don't see that happening. I'd rather they get Campusano but I think you're right. Mejias is likely who the Red Sox would get in a deal with San Diego if they want better pitching in the deal. With Vazquez, Mejias is highly expendable for San Diego and Vazquez would catch with them until Campusano is ready to take over, thus giving more certainly for that position for San Diego. The Red Sox would get a major league ready catcher with upside. As you point out he's had 20 bad games this year and he did struggle last year. Sometimes it takes catchers additional time. He did hit in the minors so he could become an effective catcher for the Red Sox next year and beyond. I'd rather have the upside of Campusano frankly, but he is further away and dealing away Vazquez would leave the Sox with a catching black hole if they have to wait for Campusano. And I think San Diego's willingness to part with Mejias over Campusano would result in a higher caliber pitching prospect the Sox could pry away from San Diego. So while long-term I prefer Campusano I would anticipate any deal with San Diego returns Mejias plus a higher caliber pitching prospect.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 28, 2020 11:35:46 GMT -5
I don’t think going into a trade saying you need to get back a catcher is the best way to do it. Limits you too much. It can, but honestly the Red Sox need young catching. They need it almost as much as young pitching. Ok, maybe not almost, but I'd say it's second on the list. I mean other than Wong, who projects as a bench guy, they have nothing in the system.
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Post by GyIantosca on Aug 28, 2020 11:55:32 GMT -5
Look at it this way if CV stays it is a reasonable deal. If he is moved it should be for a decent haul throw in Barnes with his additional year.
The JDM one is basically the same there lucky they have deals very comfortable at the right age. This season is so dam important . You might get ERod and Devers at a reasonable number. Those are the only too I think about. Think about it Benny has one more year at 6. They can keep him see if he redeems himself
But Moreland might need to go time to see if Chavis can do something and let’s see Dalbec please. I hope where in for some fun Monday.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 28, 2020 11:57:28 GMT -5
I don’t think going into a trade saying you need to get back a catcher is the best way to do it. Limits you too much. Are you really going to take a lesson return so you get a catcher back? It's more like I only trade him if the right offer is available. Instead of we are trading him let's get the best offer.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 28, 2020 12:05:38 GMT -5
If I deal Vazquez I need to get a catcher back and I'd prefer guys that are ready or close to ready. A guy like Mejia could be a very good catcher next year. He hit in the minors, he hit last year. He's just had 20 bad games, which happens all the time. Quantrill and Morejon are both in the majors, all three are former top 100 guys. It's not that those guys in the Mets system can't be good. They are risky long-term guys. Even if it works out, they are like four years away if not longer. The one guy that is ready plays SS. He's not horrible at all, yet where do you play him? That's a long-term rebuild type trade. Not a retool type trade. I say this because finding even decent catchers isn't easy. If Bloom blows it up and trades Bogaerts, then we can talk about trades like this. I just don't see that happening. I'd rather they get Campusano but I think you're right. Mejias is likely who the Red Sox would get in a deal with San Diego if they want better pitching in the deal. With Vazquez, Mejias is highly expendable for San Diego and Vazquez would catch with them until Campusano is ready to take over, thus giving more certainly for that position for San Diego. The Red Sox would get a major league ready catcher with upside. As you point out he's had 20 bad games this year and he did struggle last year. Sometimes it takes catchers additional time. He did hit in the minors so he could become an effective catcher for the Red Sox next year and beyond. I'd rather have the upside of Campusano frankly, but he is further away and dealing away Vazquez would leave the Sox with a catching black hole if they have to wait for Campusano. And I think San Diego's willingness to part with Mejias over Campusano would result in a higher caliber pitching prospect the Sox could pry away from San Diego. So while long-term I prefer Campusano I would anticipate any deal with San Diego returns Mejias plus a higher caliber pitching prospect. I'm not against Campusano if they are willing to do that. He could be ready late 2021 or by 2022. It's just Mejia value is at an all-time low and I love getting guys at that point. As long as we get a catcher that semi close I'm okay with it.
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jdb
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Post by jdb on Aug 28, 2020 12:12:22 GMT -5
Id mix and match vets in a platoon. Catching prospects flame out to much for me to insist on one. If Mejia is a throw in great but I don’t want to build a package around one.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 28, 2020 12:24:37 GMT -5
www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=mejia-004fraMejia is about as good of a hitter for a catcher in the minors you'll ever see. He literally hit at every level and was above average for a catcher. Reports have said he's greatly improved his D over the last few years. His worst showing was .282 with a .747 OPS in low A ball years ago. He doesn't have any Chavis level strikeout problems and takes some walks. He had an OPS plus of 99 last year in the majors. He's only played 16 games in the majors this year. Are we really overlooking all that to focus on 16 games?
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Post by rjp313jr on Aug 28, 2020 12:24:43 GMT -5
Id mix and match vets in a platoon. Catching prospects flame out to much for me to insist on one. If Mejia is a throw in great but I don’t want to build a package around one. This, I’m not handcuffing myself in a trade and taking a lessor package to insist on getting a highly combustable prospect. If I’m trying a catcher who’s proven to be able to help pitchers, when I’m trying to develop pitching and has shown upside with the bat then I’m getting a big haul back or I’m not trading him.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 28, 2020 12:56:00 GMT -5
www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=mejia-004fraMejia is about as good of a hitter for a catcher in the minors you'll ever see. He literally hit at every level and was above average for a catcher. Reports have said he's greatly improved his D over the last few years. His worst showing was .282 with a .747 OPS in low A ball years ago. He doesn't have any Chavis level strikeout problems and takes some walks. He had an OPS plus of 99 last year in the majors. He's only played 16 games in the majors this year. Are we really overlooking all that to focus on 16 games? Mejia doesn't walk much so I'd worry that his OBP wouldn't be that good. When I look at Campusano, I see a better BB/K rate, so I feel better about his future than Mejia, although I do agree he's better than he has showed. He has a decent hit tool. I could see .280 with a .320 OBP. I just think Campusano could be a .290 with a .350 OBP kind of guy - with potentially more power. I think it comes down to which pitcher would be paired with either catcher in the deal. The higher caliber pitcher would be paired with Mejia rather than Campusano.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 28, 2020 13:39:07 GMT -5
Id mix and match vets in a platoon. Catching prospects flame out to much for me to insist on one. If Mejia is a throw in great but I don’t want to build a package around one. This, I’m not handcuffing myself in a trade and taking a lessor package to insist on getting a highly combustable prospect. If I’m trying a catcher who’s proven to be able to help pitchers, when I’m trying to develop pitching and has shown upside with the bat then I’m getting a big haul back or I’m not trading him. Let me clarify because my stance seems to not be clear. I'm not turning down a massive offer because it doesn't have a catcher in it. I don't think an offer like that is likely though. That's Mets offer isn't that for me. I don't want to trade him. Catchers are hard to find and I do really want him to help young pitchers. He's currently #2 in Defensive rankings by fangraphs for example. If I'm taking a deal that isn't some slam dunk huge offer. It's a deal for a guy like Mejia because it gives you a catcher. A guy who looks like he can be an above average hitter and Defensive player. His defensive stats match the reports, he's getting a lot better. Plus you fill other holes. It's slam dunk trade, a makes sense trade or keep him. With keep him at 75%. I'm not doing a take the best offer trade because I just want to trade him and rebuild.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 28, 2020 13:59:28 GMT -5
www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=mejia-004fraMejia is about as good of a hitter for a catcher in the minors you'll ever see. He literally hit at every level and was above average for a catcher. Reports have said he's greatly improved his D over the last few years. His worst showing was .282 with a .747 OPS in low A ball years ago. He doesn't have any Chavis level strikeout problems and takes some walks. He had an OPS plus of 99 last year in the majors. He's only played 16 games in the majors this year. Are we really overlooking all that to focus on 16 games? Mejia doesn't walk much so I'd worry that his OBP wouldn't be that good. When I look at Campusano, I see a better BB/K rate, so I feel better about his future than Mejia, although I do agree he's better than he has showed. He has a decent hit tool. I could see .280 with a .320 OBP. I just think Campusano could be a .290 with a .350 OBP kind of guy - with potentially more power. I think it comes down to which pitcher would be paired with either catcher in the deal. The higher caliber pitcher would be paired with Mejia rather than Campusano. Your ratios look right, I would just never project .280 to .290 from catchers. Yet both are well above average for catchers. You just want to chase the guy who could be best hitter in majors at catcher, which I get. I worry about the California league and it's not just him either, Downs and Wong are in that same boat. Plus his D and how he handles AA and AAA. I value the safer bet that is highly discounted. The guy who I have stats to show me he's become above average at D, even if it's a crazy tiny sample. You could be 100% right on maybe the difference is the type of arm you get. Yet couldn't it also be they aren't trading him at all? Don't mind me, I just see Mejia as an asset with an 85% off sign.
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Post by corballer on Aug 29, 2020 12:19:50 GMT -5
Rays appear to be looking into Vaz. Obviously, we don't want to help within the division but Bloom does know their system. Who would we want back in a deal there? Maybe a lottery ticket in Honeywell?
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 29, 2020 13:51:53 GMT -5
Honeywell is one hell of a lottery ticket, yet I would need more. It should be close to a Kimbrell trade for me.
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Post by corballer on Aug 29, 2020 15:11:23 GMT -5
Honeywell is one hell of a lottery ticket, yet I would need more. It should be close to a Kimbrell trade for me. That is a big ask. I don't think Vaz demands 2 top 100 players but I think I would be happy with a deal centered around Honeywell. Maybe include catching prospect Ronaldo Hernandez and another arm, Ryan or Goss, and I would be happy
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 29, 2020 17:41:09 GMT -5
Honeywell is one hell of a lottery ticket, yet I would need more. It should be close to a Kimbrell trade for me. That is a big ask. I don't think Vaz demands 2 top 100 players but I think I would be happy with a deal centered around Honeywell. Maybe include catching prospect Ronaldo Hernandez and another arm, Ryan or Goss, and I would be happy I said close to a Kimbrell trade, like you'll never get a 4th piece like Allen. Yet it needs to be a big ask! Doing a simple equal value trade doesn't make sense. Honeywell while crazy elite in 2017, has gone three years without pitching in a game. He just started throwing bullpen sessions. You can go so many ways with that system. Yet say Baz, Honeywell, and Josh Lowe. The swing for the fences trade. Yet that's still a crazy risky trade and only Baz is a top 100 guy and a lower one at that. I also doubt they want to trade Honeywell when his value is at an all-time low.
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Post by lennsakata on Aug 29, 2020 20:34:24 GMT -5
I’d start with asking for Shane Baz from TB, even though I doubt they’d include him. I really like Joe Ryan and feel in some ways he has a better floor with a still high ceiling and will be more likely to remain a starter. That being said Baz is three years younger and only a half level behind him and his control is improving...I believe he scrapped one of his offerings which I like as well since he was throwing 5 legit pitches at one point...which can hinder gains in control/command and refinement. I think if you come off Baz and go to Ryan as the primary With them likely not making Baz available, you might be able to get a JJ Goss or more likely Seth Johnson, or a guy whose upside I really like as a secondary piece... Taj Bradley. Bradley seems pretty exciting with a good fastball/curve combo, athletic clean delivery and a good chance to develop a solid change.
I know the focus is said to be on pitching, as far as the bats in the 10-30 range, Jhon Diaz is a long ways away and not likely what casual fans would want to see, but he’s pretty tooled up smaller guy with surprising pop and supposedly a good eye on top of the potential to stick in center. Obviously a big bonus guy so his 24 ranking on MLB.com may not be in line with how they view him internally or willingness to package
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