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8/14-8/17 Red Sox @ Yankees Series Thread
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Post by manfred on Aug 15, 2020 12:55:40 GMT -5
We don’t know anything about what did or did not happen with Betts. But given that we’d be 2/3 of the way through his contract when he is JDM’s age, I don’t think 12 years is actually a problem. I’m fine overpaying the last 3-4 years to get legit value for 8. Add: or, put differently: if they signed Springer to a 2-year deal, when that deal ends, he’d be the age Mookie will be when the latter is 1/2 way through his deal. That is not a bad investment in a home grown star whose value goes beyond just his raw stats. Finally, I think if the Sox were to sign, say, Springer to a four-year deal, fans have every right to be furious. Why would he be fine through age 35/36, but Mookie to 38/39 is too risky? But keep in mind that we would have burned at least two of Mookie's productive years on crap teams. He would make no difference on the 2020 Boston Red Sox, a team that comes into today's game with a staff ERA of 5.86 and a ghastly 1.65 WHIP. I'll be pleasantly surprised if the 2021 team is good enough for Mookie to lift into the PS. I think we face at least two years of significant suckage. I miss him, too. But non-contending teams that hand out contracts like he got from the LAD remain non-contending teams longer than they should. But there would be a reason to watch. I don’t get pleasure from watching Pillar or Peraza or Verdugo or on and on with cheaper fill-ins.
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Post by manfred on Aug 15, 2020 12:58:07 GMT -5
The age issue remains my main point. Because he was a young free agent, to replace him you may end up having to pay someone for almost the same age-years. So if they signed Springer (merely a typical example) through his age 35 season (not a crazy contract for a free agent... 4years), they’d be going a long way towards where Betts would end.... having not gotten ages 28-32. Betts is gone. It’s done. But I’d be happy to see a career-long extension for Xander. If they could do 10-years, I’d go for it in a heartbeat. Say what you want about the Yankees (please!) but their long stretch was greater for having soul. Jeter, Mo, Bernie... if the Sox win a World Series in 3 years, 5 years, with a team that doesn’t have Betts or Bogaerts, it loses a great deal of that soul. I’m not here to watch mercenaries in laundry. But Manfred, come on. Mookie Betts is the definition of a mercenary. He made it clear he wanted the highest-value contract he could get and felt no sentimentality toward Boston. I don't begrudge him that. FA is a right the players won fair and square through the courts and negotiations. But let's not pretend that he was aching to stay in Boston and the RS cheaped out. This isn't a Carlton Fisk or Jon Lester situation. He did? Can you point me to that statement? And do we have a record of the Sox’ top offer? How those negotiations went? Let’s not act like we know a guy after we ditch him. And let’s also recall he remains under contract this year. The Sox pulled the plug early... not Mookie.
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Post by Addam603 on Aug 15, 2020 12:59:18 GMT -5
But keep in mind that we would have burned at least two of Mookie's productive years on crap teams. He would make no difference on the 2020 Boston Red Sox, a team that comes into today's game with a staff ERA of 5.86 and a ghastly 1.65 WHIP. I'll be pleasantly surprised if the 2021 team is good enough for Mookie to lift into the PS. I think we face at least two years of significant suckage. I miss him, too. But non-contending teams that hand out contracts like he got from the LAD remain non-contending teams longer than they should. But there would be a reason to watch. I don’t get pleasure from watching Pillar or Peraza or Verdugo or on and on with cheaper fill-ins. Can’t lump Verdugo in with Pillar and Peraza. Verdugo is gonna be a big piece of the team for years and is an exciting player to watch.
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Post by manfred on Aug 15, 2020 13:00:29 GMT -5
But there would be a reason to watch. I don’t get pleasure from watching Pillar or Peraza or Verdugo or on and on with cheaper fill-ins. Can’t lump Verdugo in with Pillar and Peraza. Verdugo is gonna be a big piece of the team for years and is an exciting player to watch. Doesn’t excite me. Add: for real, independent of how he arrived. He is batting a soft .258. I am sure he’ll be a fine but unspectacular player. Ok. He might be a PART of winners. But excited? He better be the fourth or fifth best player on the team, or they won’t be very good.
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Post by jbsox on Aug 15, 2020 13:07:05 GMT -5
Unfortunately, I think Champs has nailed it here. It's unrealistic to think other teams look at JBJ, Moreland and Pillar as anything other than JAGs. JBJ's highest OPS-plus since 2016 is 92 and this year he's rocking a 52. Pillar is a fourth OFer. Moreland is 7.5 WAR over 10-plus years. Each of these guys might be worth a PTBNL or low-level prospect unlikely to ever make The Show. Workman? A better than average RP but I don't see a team coughing up a top-100 prospect for him. Any team that trades for 1-D JDM is probably going to want a guarantee he's more than one-month rental before giving up significant assets for him. It's why you need a creative GM. Sure you likely can't get top 100 guys. Yet you might be able to get former top guys that have yet to produce in the majors or are struggling. There's also the adding in other assets type deals. Workman and Chavis for example. Taking back bad contracts like Myers. Then again maybe I'm giving our GM too much credit. Yup, and Bloom was known for being creative with the Rays. An expiring contract like JBJ in itself won’t fetch much. However, combine JBJ with Barnes who has a year left of his contract maybe we are getting somewhere. Combine Workman with Moreland who has a club option for next year as another example. I would settle for an upside future back end bullpen help with Workman, Barnes, and even Hembree nearing the end of their contracts. it will be interesting to see what Bloom and co pull off this deadline.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 15, 2020 13:10:38 GMT -5
So did our teams with Ortiz not have soul because he wasn't a homegrown guy? I get the point, yet any team will have homegrown guys and I value winning over anything.
I don't get your age issue. I think you are missing the point. The Sox per reports offered a deal that ran through age 35. He turned it down. Any four year deal, has only three down/bad years. Take Springer, after 2021 only three more years. Betts has 11 years left. It's not just age, it's age vs length with risk involved. For example we don't know what Betts looks like at age 30 and even if you did, he's getting 9 years, not 4. His age 34 is the start of the last half of that deal.
20 years ago prime years used to something like age 27-33. Now a days, with no steroids prime years are typically much earlier and decline is happening faster. Best example is war used to be about 50-50 split between arbitration and free agents. Now it's 75-25 and it's why some free agents haven't got the big deals they expect. Now every player is different, yet the overall trend is clear.
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Post by Addam603 on Aug 15, 2020 13:11:53 GMT -5
Can’t lump Verdugo in with Pillar and Peraza. Verdugo is gonna be a big piece of the team for years and is an exciting player to watch. Doesn’t excite me. Add: for real, independent of how he arrived. He is batting a soft .258. I am sure he’ll be a fine but unspectacular player. Ok. He might be a PART of winners. But excited? He better be the fourth or fifth best player on the team, or they won’t be very good. Verdugo is one of the highest energy guys the Sox have had in awhile. If you’re judging him by an 18 game sample in this messed up season, then you’ve got to hold everyone else to the same standard. Devers is batting sub .200. Martinez is only batting .219. Verdugo is going to be a major player in the upcoming teams and even if he’s not an all-star level player he’s a high energy guy that the fans are going to LOVE.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 15, 2020 13:23:32 GMT -5
How is a guy batting a soft .258 if his OPS plus is 110?
That is Peraza, who is hitting at soft .262 with an OPS plus of 73.
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Post by juanfatj on Aug 15, 2020 13:26:20 GMT -5
Can’t lump Verdugo in with Pillar and Peraza. Verdugo is gonna be a big piece of the team for years and is an exciting player to watch. Doesn’t excite me. Add: for real, independent of how he arrived. He is batting a soft .258. I am sure he’ll be a fine but unspectacular player. Ok. He might be a PART of winners. But excited? He better be the fourth or fifth best player on the team, or they won’t be very good. I think maybe your hate of the Mookie trade is keeping you biased. I'm not saying he will or won't become and all star caliber player, but Verdugo was pretty impressive last year before injuries. His numbers in his first full season are quite similar to Betts first full season. However I am not judging him against Mookie, that's not fair for any player. I do find him an exciting player to watch, and hoping he can continue to improve. The kid shows a love for the game that is nice to see.
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Post by manfred on Aug 15, 2020 13:59:26 GMT -5
How is a guy batting a soft .258 if his OPS plus is 110? That is Peraza, who is hitting at soft .262 with an OPS plus of 73. Because most of the hits I’ve seen have been grounders, cue shots etc. Guy has same number of XBH as Peraza. As I said, the guy will be decent, I’m sure. But I am not *excited*. He actually reminds me most of Benny with less speed and less power. A slightly under-sized, nice swinging lefty. But a not-quite Benny doesn’t *excite* me. And enthusiasm is eyewash if the play doesn’t follow.
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TearsIn04
Veteran
Everybody knows Nelson de la Rosa, but who is Karim Garcia?
Posts: 2,835
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Post by TearsIn04 on Aug 15, 2020 14:03:39 GMT -5
But Manfred, come on. Mookie Betts is the definition of a mercenary. He made it clear he wanted the highest-value contract he could get and felt no sentimentality toward Boston. I don't begrudge him that. FA is a right the players won fair and square through the courts and negotiations. But let's not pretend that he was aching to stay in Boston and the RS cheaped out. This isn't a Carlton Fisk or Jon Lester situation. He did? Can you point me to that statement? And do we have a record of the Sox’ top offer? How those negotiations went? Let’s not act like we know a guy after we ditch him. And let’s also recall he remains under contract this year. The Sox pulled the plug early... not Mookie. The publicly reported information is that Mookie turned down $300M from the Red Sox. Nobody has denied those reports. Here's one: weei.radio.com/blogs/lou-merloni/details-emerge-regarding-mookie-betts-negotiations Here's another: www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/mookie-betts-says-he-doesnt-regret-turning-down-300-million-offer-from-red-sox/#:~:text=The%20Red%20Sox%20made%20several,reportedly%20offered%20%24300%20million%20later. Check out this Mookie quote: "It's how I was raised to look at the thing," he said. "As a whole, when it comes to business in general, whether it's buying a building or contract negotiations or whatever it is, you have to take emotions out of it. That's what people forget. Fans and media get caught up in emotions and that's just not how I was raised and that's just not what my point of view with my agents is. We take emotions out of it and we focus on the business part." This reminds me of a scene in the movie "A Bronx Tale." The little kid tells Sonny, the neighborhood boss and thug, that he's upset about the MFY losing the 1960 WS. He says Bill Mazeroski "made Mickey Mantle cry." Sonny replies, "Well, if your father can't pay the rent, go see Mickey Mantle and see what he tells you. Mickey Mantle don't care about you, so why should you care about him?"
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Post by incandenza on Aug 15, 2020 14:08:36 GMT -5
The other reason I have a hard time rooting for draft position is that there just isn't that big a payoff. It's not like the NFL or NBA drafts where the #1 pick is a sure thing. Here are the #1 picks going back from 2015: 2015: Dansby Swanson 2014: Brady Aiken 2013: Mark Appel 2012: Carlos Correa 2011: Gerrit Cole 2010: Bryce Harper 2009: Stephen Strasburg 2008: Tim Beckham 2007: David Price 2006: Luke Hochevar 2005: Justin Upton 2004: Matt Bush 2003: Delmon Young 2002: Brian Bullington 2001: Joe Mauer 2000: Adrian Gonzalez Half of those guys turned into stars, half of them turned into... not much. (It's interesting how few of them were just serviceable major leaguers; it's all boom or bust.) I would bet that Nats fans don't agree with you. Their successful decade got jumpstarted by the drafting of Strasburg and Harper. And the Astros despite missing on Appel used it to their advantage as well. The Rays got their only pennant with David Price on the mound in relief. There are some franchise caliber players on that list which doesn't even include Casey Mize - don't you wish the Red Sox had a pitching prospect of that caliber? I mean, is going 27-33 really better than going 20-40 so you can get what's more likely lesser talent? I mean, you can put that same list above out for the say, #8 pick of the draft, and I'm sure you'll get some gems, but most likely that list on average is lesser than the list you compiled above - and that's with the Brian Bullington's on the world.
Keep in mind some of the teams that picked first picked first because they had awful decision makers on top and those decision makers were staffed with guys who weren't as good at decision making (ie, scouting and drafting the best talent with their pick or not willing to spend the money) which is what got them to the bottom in the first place. If Bloom and the staff at his disposal are going to build championship caliber teams then it's not too tall a task to ask them to pick the top talent with the top pick of the country. That's their job - to correctly evaluate talent, not just major league talent, but college and high school as well. Is it fool proof? No, but looking at some of the potential HOF discussion caliber names on that list, that's a doable proposition picking from the #1 spot. If you're going to suck you might as well do in a shortened season where the misery isn't dragged out for 162 games, especially for a season that is kind of an abomination of a season anyways. So frankly, I couldn't care less if the Sox lose every damn game they play this year. They're going to do that mostly anyways with this awful pitching staff they threw together. It was obvious that ownership didn't care about winning in 2020 so why should I? Good question. Let's see - here are the #8 picks for the same years: 2015: Carson Fulmer 2014: Kyle Freeland 2013: Hunter Dozier 2012: Mark Appel (that guy...) 2011: Francisco Lindor 2010: Delino DeShields 2009: Mike Leake 2008: Gordon Beckham 2007: Casey Weathers 2006: Robert Stubbs 2005: Wade Townsend 2004: Wade Townsend (weird) 2003: Paul Maholm 2002: Scott Moore 2001: John van Benschoten 2000: Matthew Wheatland Yikes! One superstar, and then the next best is... Delino DeShields, I guess? Well now you've convinced me that tanking really isn't worth it, because it's baseball and there are no sure things ever. I mean it goes without saying that the better your draft position, the better your odds of hitting on a winner. But the relative advantages here are just not that substantial, certainly compared to other sports.
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Post by manfred on Aug 15, 2020 14:19:46 GMT -5
I would bet that Nats fans don't agree with you. Their successful decade got jumpstarted by the drafting of Strasburg and Harper. And the Astros despite missing on Appel used it to their advantage as well. The Rays got their only pennant with David Price on the mound in relief. There are some franchise caliber players on that list which doesn't even include Casey Mize - don't you wish the Red Sox had a pitching prospect of that caliber? I mean, is going 27-33 really better than going 20-40 so you can get what's more likely lesser talent? I mean, you can put that same list above out for the say, #8 pick of the draft, and I'm sure you'll get some gems, but most likely that list on average is lesser than the list you compiled above - and that's with the Brian Bullington's on the world.
Keep in mind some of the teams that picked first picked first because they had awful decision makers on top and those decision makers were staffed with guys who weren't as good at decision making (ie, scouting and drafting the best talent with their pick or not willing to spend the money) which is what got them to the bottom in the first place. If Bloom and the staff at his disposal are going to build championship caliber teams then it's not too tall a task to ask them to pick the top talent with the top pick of the country. That's their job - to correctly evaluate talent, not just major league talent, but college and high school as well. Is it fool proof? No, but looking at some of the potential HOF discussion caliber names on that list, that's a doable proposition picking from the #1 spot. If you're going to suck you might as well do in a shortened season where the misery isn't dragged out for 162 games, especially for a season that is kind of an abomination of a season anyways. So frankly, I couldn't care less if the Sox lose every damn game they play this year. They're going to do that mostly anyways with this awful pitching staff they threw together. It was obvious that ownership didn't care about winning in 2020 so why should I? Good question. Let's see - here are the #8 picks for the same years: 2015: Carson Fulmer 2014: Kyle Freeland 2013: Hunter Dozier 2012: Mark Appel (that guy...) 2011: Francisco Lindor 2010: Delino DeShields 2009: Mike Leake 2008: Gordon Beckham 2007: Casey Weathers 2006: Robert Stubbs 2005: Wade Townsend 2004: Wade Townsend (weird) 2003: Paul Maholm 2002: Scott Moore 2001: John van Benschoten 2000: Matthew Wheatland Yikes! One superstar, and then the next best is... Delino DeShields, I guess? Well now you've convinced me that tanking really isn't worth it, because it's baseball and there are no sure things ever. I mean it goes without saying that the better your draft position, the better your odds of hitting on a winner. But the relative advantages here are just not that substantial, certainly compared to other sports. That is really interesting... thanks for compiling. I have to admit, I’d assume the 8th pick would be a far better bet!
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Post by incandenza on Aug 15, 2020 14:25:49 GMT -5
But there would be a reason to watch. I don’t get pleasure from watching Pillar or Peraza or Verdugo or on and on with cheaper fill-ins. Can’t lump Verdugo in with Pillar and Peraza. Verdugo is gonna be a big piece of the team for years and is an exciting player to watch. The trick is, if you think of Verdugo not as an individual player, but as one-third of a collectively bad outfield, then he stinks. Manfred's been consistent in this interpretation of his performance. ADD: I've actually found him to be really fun to watch, a more charismatic player than I expected. And he barely turned 24 - he's more than a year younger than Bobby Dalbec! Who knows what his upside is...
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Post by incandenza on Aug 15, 2020 14:33:04 GMT -5
Good question. Let's see - here are the #8 picks for the same years: 2015: Carson Fulmer 2014: Kyle Freeland 2013: Hunter Dozier 2012: Mark Appel (that guy...) 2011: Francisco Lindor 2010: Delino DeShields 2009: Mike Leake 2008: Gordon Beckham 2007: Casey Weathers 2006: Robert Stubbs 2005: Wade Townsend 2004: Wade Townsend (weird) 2003: Paul Maholm 2002: Scott Moore 2001: John van Benschoten 2000: Matthew Wheatland Yikes! One superstar, and then the next best is... Delino DeShields, I guess? Well now you've convinced me that tanking really isn't worth it, because it's baseball and there are no sure things ever. I mean it goes without saying that the better your draft position, the better your odds of hitting on a winner. But the relative advantages here are just not that substantial, certainly compared to other sports. That is really interesting... thanks for compiling. I have to admit, I’d assume the 8th pick would be a far better bet! It certainly made me feel better about Trey Ball. And Andrew Benintendi, for that matter.
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Post by rminns10 on Aug 15, 2020 14:34:45 GMT -5
Has Bloom hit on any moves yet? Arauz?
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Post by manfred on Aug 15, 2020 14:39:15 GMT -5
Can’t lump Verdugo in with Pillar and Peraza. Verdugo is gonna be a big piece of the team for years and is an exciting player to watch. The trick is, if you think of Verdugo not as an individual player, but as one-third of a collectively bad outfield, then he stinks. Manfred's been consistent in this interpretation of his performance. ADD: I've actually found him to be really fun to watch, a more charismatic player than I expected. And he barely turned 24 - he's more than a year younger than Bobby Dalbec! Who knows what his upside is... It is an objectively bad outfield this year. Historically bad if we consider the idea is Benny, JBJ, and AV. Pillar’s good start has been a huge relief and counterweight to Benny. I love JBJ... my favorite remaining Sox player. But even I am ready to part ways. He is never going to hit. Clearly his production could be matched at an extreme discount.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 15, 2020 14:41:37 GMT -5
How is a guy batting a soft .258 if his OPS plus is 110? That is Peraza, who is hitting at soft .262 with an OPS plus of 73. Because most of the hits I’ve seen have been grounders, cue shots etc. Guy has same number of XBH as Peraza. As I said, the guy will be decent, I’m sure. But I am not *excited*. He actually reminds me most of Benny with less speed and less power. A slightly under-sized, nice swinging lefty. But a not-quite Benny doesn’t *excite* me. And enthusiasm is eyewash if the play doesn’t follow. Hmmm so you missed his four HRs? Guys on pace for like a 35 HR season based on 650 PAs and your talking about grounders and cue shots like he has zero HRs like Peraza. You get most of what you say about Verdugo isn't based on logic or facts right?
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Post by juanfatj on Aug 15, 2020 14:46:55 GMT -5
Has Bloom hit on any moves yet? Arauz? Martin Perez comes to mind. 2-2 3.38 era. And mind you he was brought in to be the #4 or 5.
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Post by manfred on Aug 15, 2020 14:49:14 GMT -5
Because most of the hits I’ve seen have been grounders, cue shots etc. Guy has same number of XBH as Peraza. As I said, the guy will be decent, I’m sure. But I am not *excited*. He actually reminds me most of Benny with less speed and less power. A slightly under-sized, nice swinging lefty. But a not-quite Benny doesn’t *excite* me. And enthusiasm is eyewash if the play doesn’t follow. Hmmm so you missed his four HRs? Guys on pace for like a 35 HR season based on 650 PAs and your talking about grounders and cue shots like he has zero HRs like Peraza. You get most of what you say about Verdugo isn't based on logic or facts right? I’ve seen all four of his home runs. I saw his one double. I’ve seen most of his at bats. If he hits 35 home runs in a season, I’ll get excited. But I expect closer to 15-20. But what I wrote is, in fact, a fact. He and Peraza have the same number of XBH. I guess Peraza is on pace for 45 doubles? Don’t see that one either. I’m obviously not literally comparing them... you (or someone) said Peraza’s BA is soft, not Verdugo. The gap is not night and day. Look man: a) I can be excited by whomever I want; b) through 18 games — a meaningless span except it is all we have — Verdugo has, factually, put up meh numbers; c) what he is or is not can only be revealed in time, time beyond this silly pseudo-season.
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Post by incandenza on Aug 15, 2020 14:53:51 GMT -5
The trick is, if you think of Verdugo not as an individual player, but as one-third of a collectively bad outfield, then he stinks. Manfred's been consistent in this interpretation of his performance. ADD: I've actually found him to be really fun to watch, a more charismatic player than I expected. And he barely turned 24 - he's more than a year younger than Bobby Dalbec! Who knows what his upside is... It is an objectively bad outfield this year. Historically bad if we consider the idea is Benny, JBJ, and AV. Pillar’s good start has been a huge relief and counterweight to Benny. I love JBJ... my favorite remaining Sox player. But even I am ready to part ways. He is never going to hit. Clearly his production could be matched at an extreme discount. No one's arguing that! But a number of times you've done this kind of slippery move where you make the implicit argument that the outfield is bad, Verdugo is part of the outfield, therefore Verdugo is bad. I'm just saying he ought to be judged on his own terms. Agree about JBJ. I've always rooted so hard for him. And he really has been a productive contributor to the team, despite the frustrating slumps. But he's 30 now, and neither the offense nor the defense are likely to get any better.
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Post by manfred on Aug 15, 2020 14:55:00 GMT -5
Has Bloom hit on any moves yet? Arauz? Martin Perez comes to mind. 2-2 3.38 era. And mind you he was brought in to be the #4 or 5. I actually like Plawecki a lot. Not a huge move, but a ridiculous step ip offensively from Leon.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 15, 2020 14:57:15 GMT -5
Hmmm so you missed his four HRs? Guys on pace for like a 35 HR season based on 650 PAs and your talking about grounders and cue shots like he has zero HRs like Peraza. You get most of what you say about Verdugo isn't based on logic or facts right? I’ve seen all four of his home runs. I saw his one double. I’ve seen most of his at bats. If he hits 35 home runs in a season, I’ll get excited. But I expect closer to 15-20. But what I wrote is, in fact, a fact. He and Peraza have the same number of XBH. I guess Peraza is on pace for 45 doubles? Don’t see that one either. I’m obviously not literally comparing them... you (or someone) said Peraza’s BA is soft, not Verdugo. The gap is not night and day. Look man: a) I can be excited by whomever I want; b) through 18 games — a meaningless span except it is all we have — Verdugo has, factually, put up meh numbers; c) what he is or is not can only be revealed in time, time beyond this silly pseudo-season. It's a fact Peraza is 27% below average with his OPS and Verdugo is 10% above average. You can think whatever you want, yet you can't change facts. Acting like they are the same based on extra base hits is laughable and 100% wrong. You know this, you aren't a normal fan. If you think Verdugo is an 18-20 HR you should be crazy impressed so far because he's shown a lot more power than you admit to expecting. Yet you are doing the opposite, acting like he's disappointing, when you admit he's out performing your expectations. You can't have it both ways.
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Post by manfred on Aug 15, 2020 15:02:26 GMT -5
It is an objectively bad outfield this year. Historically bad if we consider the idea is Benny, JBJ, and AV. Pillar’s good start has been a huge relief and counterweight to Benny. I love JBJ... my favorite remaining Sox player. But even I am ready to part ways. He is never going to hit. Clearly his production could be matched at an extreme discount. No one's arguing that! But a number of times you've done this kind of slippery move where you make the implicit argument that the outfield is bad, Verdugo is part of the outfield, therefore Verdugo is bad. I'm just saying he ought to be judged on his own terms. Agree about JBJ. I've always rooted so hard for him. And he really has been a productive contributor to the team, despite the frustrating slumps. But he's 30 now, and neither the offense nor the defense are likely to get any better. Ok, I swear this is my last Verdugo post. My point on the big picture is that guys are part of a puzzle. JBJ is a great example: when he was surrounded by Mookie and a good Benny, he was really valuable because his awesome glove made that outfield a vacuum combined, and his really spotty hitting could be buried without a huge problem. He was a net plus. Now, you put him between guys who can’t hit at a high level, and suddenly his bad hitting is exposed. With a terrible outfield, an average guy is not really part of the solution. If the Sox were getting huge production from, say, LF, suddenly average becomes better. I suppose it is analogous to a rotation. If Perez were #4 or 5, he’d be doing amazing. #1 or 2, he’s ok, but you have a huge problem. Or, put differently again: Perez can be one of the best 5th starters in baseball AND one of the worst 1st starters at the same time. Verdugo could slot in as one of the better third outfielders and still be a pretty disappointing 1st outfielder. Put differently: the Indians are the only team in the AL without at least one OF with a higher OPS+ than AV. He is a fine piece, but he shouldn’t be your best OFer. But in the larger context, I’m not so excited.
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Post by soxjim on Aug 15, 2020 15:07:00 GMT -5
Redsoxchamps nailed it. I can't express how important it is next year for Sale and ERod to bounce back and Eovaldi to stay healthy if there is any hope of being pretty good or better. The players redsoxchamps mentioned -- JD Martinez, JBJ, Moreland, Workman, and Pillar as potentially being traded - other than JDM -- just aren't that good.
IMO it's a pipedream to expect Red Sox are going to get much from these. If I were a team with title aspirations no way any of above players force me to get rid of good young talent (unless I cna work some favorable deal for JDM). Moreland is a platoon player. JBJ is not very good. Pillar is okay but not so hot. Workman is pretty good but no way dominant enough and with just 1 year not going to get much. As for the hitters - our division and our home park are hitters parks other than Tampa Bay.
If you want to ensure you are going to get some "very good" prospects you have to continue to stink and wait as long as it takes by drafting along with you have to give up something of high value to get high value in return. If there is any belief from anyone that thinks you're getting much for JBJ/Workman/Moreland/Pillar -- - I just don't agree at all. I think it's "Red SOx fan bias."
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