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8/18-8/19 Red Sox vs. Phillies Series Thread
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Post by dmaineah on Aug 18, 2020 14:27:25 GMT -5
What move did you want him to make? In fact, it's probably better they're this bad so the move should make them an instant contender while still getting them under the tax. Honestly I wouldn't even bother with him, he's made it pretty clear he's not going to see reason or context on any of this. Bloom sucks & only time will get you to see it clearly. He needs to go before he is allowed to continue to make things worst but unfortunately that’s not going to happen. It’s going to be a long decade for the Red Sox if he is allowed to stay in charge.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 18, 2020 14:31:04 GMT -5
Looks interesting with the cluster, but I mean Covey, Hall, Mazza are all in the 4-6 inning range for the season, and Stock has thrown .2 more innings than Plawecki. (What is his hard contact?). I’ll be interested to see how this holds up. It's definitely a cherry-picked stunt. However, look at the totals by xwOBA: .341 (103 PA) Established acquisitions (Perez) .353 (343 PA) No-cost acquisitions (9 guys you'd never heard of)
.354 (263 PA) Core incumbents (Eovaldi, Workman, Barnes, Walden, Hembree, Taylor) .421 (196 PA) Fringe incumbents (Brasier, Brewer, Weber, Hart) The best 263 PA of the no-cost additions are .333, which is also MLB average. Valdez and Brice have been better than MLB average in xwOBA, EV, and HH% (hard-hit %). So has Hembree.
Perez and Mazza have been better than MLB average in EV and HH%. Osich and Godley have been just better than average in EV. Ditto for Brewer and Hart.
Covey has been better in xwOBA. Only Springs and Hall have been hit the way you'd expect all of these guys to get hit.
Eovaldi, Workman, Barnes, and Walden are below average in all three metrics, ditto for Weber and Brasier. Workman, though, is just a bit below, and has been good in high leverage.
Coming into the year I would have put Brasier in the core incumbents category which would move the totals of the core incumbents down significantly.
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Post by manfred on Aug 18, 2020 14:33:36 GMT -5
Looks interesting with the cluster, but I mean Covey, Hall, Mazza are all in the 4-6 inning range for the season, and Stock has thrown .2 more innings than Plawecki. (What is his hard contact?). I’ll be interested to see how this holds up. It's definitely a cherry-picked stunt. However, look at the totals by xwOBA:
.341 (103 PA) Established acquisitions (Perez) .353 (343 PA) No-cost acquisitions (9 guys you'd never heard of)
.354 (263 PA) Core incumbents (Eovaldi, Workman, Barnes, Walden, Hembree, Taylor) .421 (196 PA) Fringe incumbents (Brasier, Brewer, Weber, Hart)
The best 263 PA of the no-cost additions are .333, which is also MLB average.
Valdez and Brice have been better than MLB average in xwOBA, EV, and HH% (hard-hit %). So has Hembree.
Perez and Mazza have been better than MLB average in EV and HH%. Osich and Godley have been just better than average in EV. Ditto for Brewer and Hart.
Covey has been better in xwOBA.
Only Springs and Hall have been hit the way you'd expect all of these guys to get hit.
Eovaldi, Workman, Barnes, and Walden are below average in all three metrics, ditto for Weber and Brasier. Workman, though, is just a bit below, and has been good in high leverage.
If you take out outliers, it largely matches eye test. Perez has been their best pitcher by far. I didn’t think he was good, so chapeau to Bloom. I think Brice and Osich have shown promise. Flip side, I think Eovaldi is overrated, Barnes and Brasier and Walden are not good. Hembree likely wouldn’t keep this up, but I like that fella. Not sold on most of the rest.
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ericmvan
Veteran
Supposed to be working on something more important
Posts: 8,923
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Post by ericmvan on Aug 18, 2020 14:39:09 GMT -5
No, pretty sure that's that's Roenicke. Mazza got returned to the Alternate Other Training Preparation Site, again, and I don't see that as Bloom's choice. How is it the Managers fault if Weber is his third best starter? Bloom has said starter depth even before the season was in need of improvement. Given we've seen some openers and all the guys up and down, I think it's clearly Bloom. You really think it's the manager calling up Hart and giving Brewer starts? Like I'm sure he has input, yet this sure looks like Bloom. Riffling through pitchers trying to find guys for next year and the future. It makes sense, yet no manager wants that. Heck if this is just the manager the GM isn't doing his job. The manager is there to manage the players the GM gives him. He inherited a team that needed to get under the tax limit. He signed Perez, who is providing plus bang-for-buck. There was no money for any other SP additions other than from the waiver wire or the equivalent.
In retrospect (at this point, which may be a mirage), you could have not signed Peraza and spent that money on another SP option. But you'd have to have known that E-Rod would miss the year and that Arauz would not be overmatched.
Given the talent on hand, it's been Roenicke who had no interest in Johnson, who seemed like the best bet on paper and had a good spring. Of the castaways, the guy who looks like the best shot at becoming a solid #5 or bulk guy is Mazza, and he's been sent down twice, and that baffles me.
Mazza very clearly ran out of gas in his 3rd inning ... given the lack of depth in the rotation even before E-Rod got sick, how is is that all of the guys with starting experience were not stretched out to the max?
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 18, 2020 14:44:52 GMT -5
Honestly I wouldn't even bother with him, he's made it pretty clear he's not going to see reason or context on any of this. Bloom sucks & only time will get you to see it clearly. He needs to go before he is allowed to continue to make things worst but unfortunately that’s not going to happen. It’s going to be a long decade for the Red Sox if he is allowed to stay in charge. So Bloom arrives on the job told to slash the budget by about 30 - 50 million, loses his manager, loses his ace pitcher, his 2019 ace and is told to slash by trading away his best player and the one other good pitcher he has. And oh yeah, he inherited a farm system that is among the worst in the game with no real help on the horizon. What miraculous move he supposed to make from preventing this season from happening? What are the brilliant move(s) that you would have had him made that would make this craptastic team a contender. Can you muster an intelligent reason why he "sucks"? I mean it's pretty obvious to me that we have no idea what he can do when his hands aren't tied behind his back and that this is a long-term project, not an instant gratification project. Fact is that I have no idea if he's a genius, a lousy GM, or somewhere in between. This is hardly the team or manager that he really wanted on the field, so how do we really know what he can do? Doesn't it make a helluva lot more sense to wait another season or two before definitively declaring anything one way or another about him?!! Or is nuance lost on you?
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 18, 2020 14:52:56 GMT -5
Time to take a nap but before I do, I'm going to have an argument with my door nob. Later...
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 18, 2020 15:08:31 GMT -5
How is it the Managers fault if Weber is his third best starter? Bloom has said starter depth even before the season was in need of improvement. Given we've seen some openers and all the guys up and down, I think it's clearly Bloom. You really think it's the manager calling up Hart and giving Brewer starts? Like I'm sure he has input, yet this sure looks like Bloom. Riffling through pitchers trying to find guys for next year and the future. It makes sense, yet no manager wants that. Heck if this is just the manager the GM isn't doing his job. The manager is there to manage the players the GM gives him. He inherited a team that needed to get under the tax limit. He signed Perez, who is providing plus bang-for-buck. There was no money for any other SP additions other than from the waiver wire or the equivalent.
In retrospect (at this point, which may be a mirage), you could have not signed Peraza and spent that money on another SP option. But you'd have to have known that E-Rod would miss the year and that Arauz would not be overmatched.
Given the talent on hand, it's been Roenicke who had no interest in Johnson, who seemed like the best bet on paper and had a good spring. Of the castaways, the guy who looks like the best shot at becoming a solid #5 or bulk guy is Mazza, and he's been sent down twice, and that baffles me.
Mazza very clearly ran out of gas in his 3rd inning ... given the lack of depth in the rotation even before E-Rod got sick, how is is that all of the guys with starting experience were not stretched out to the max?
Wasn't Johnson placed on waivers and taken off the 40 before Roenicke even was manager? How is that on him? Where are you getting that information? You seem to be placing Blooms choices onto the coach. GMs add talent and bring up players, not coaches. A lot of crap happened with the Sale injury and ERod getting Covid. Yet a guy like Houck not being in spring training is the GM. He's clearly valuing service time over trying to put out the best pieces you can this year. He's rotating through waiver pieces over playing our young guys for the most part. That is the GM, not the coach.
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Post by juanfatj on Aug 18, 2020 15:14:24 GMT -5
1. Alex Verdugo LF 2. Rafael Devers 3B 3. JD Martinez DH 4. Xander Bogaerts SS 5. Mitch Moreland 1B 6. Kevin Pillar RF 7. Michael Chavis 2B 8. Tzu-Wei Lin CF 9. Kevin Plawecki C SP. Zack Godley
I guess I'll just give up on them ever giving Verdugo a shot at CF.
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shagworthy
Veteran
My neckbeard game is on point.
Posts: 1,491
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Post by shagworthy on Aug 18, 2020 15:19:48 GMT -5
Bloom sucks & only time will get you to see it clearly. He needs to go before he is allowed to continue to make things worst but unfortunately that’s not going to happen. It’s going to be a long decade for the Red Sox if he is allowed to stay in charge. So Bloom arrives on the job told to slash the budget by about 30 - 50 million, loses his manager, loses his ace pitcher, his 2019 ace and is told to slash by trading away his best player and the one other good pitcher he has. And oh yeah, he inherited a farm system that is among the worst in the game with no real help on the horizon. What miraculous move he supposed to make from preventing this season from happening? What are the brilliant move(s) that you would have had him made that would make this craptastic team a contender. Can you muster an intelligent reason why he "sucks"? I mean it's pretty obvious to me that we have no idea what he can do when his hands aren't tied behind his back and that this is a long-term project, not an instant gratification project. Fact is that I have no idea if he's a genius, a lousy GM, or somewhere in between. This is hardly the team or manager that he really wanted on the field, so how do we really know what he can do? Doesn't it make a helluva lot more sense to wait another season or two before definitively declaring anything one way or another about him?!! Or is nuance lost on you? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The moment DD vomited money at Eovaldi and Sale this reckoning was coming. I'm disappointed in Henry and Company for green lighting both deals, but the damage was done. Bloom was brought in when it was painfully clear DD's methods weren't going to work, and he was brought in LATE, he then had to deal with his manager being suspended for actions he didn't commit in a Sox uniform (according to the report), he was given an edict of getting below the tax, and maximizing the value he could for a at the time almost certainly departing free agent, and then Corona Virus swept the land, Sale went down with TJ, Erod had complications from the virus and had to skip the year, and the owners and players bickered for months about play and compensation in a stupidly public fashion. I don't think you can find an executive who's first 9 months on the job has EVER been as hectic as Bloom. He's stuck with a manager he probably wouldn't have picked because of the time crunch, coaches, support staff, scouts, and all of the other things he would have probably changed if he had the time to do so, so I will give him a pass on 19-20 until he has the time to set things the way he envisions. He managed to get the Dodgers to take on a portion of Price's salary, thus extracting a public cancer to the club (even if privately he's a stand up guy, there is no denying that his continued feud with the media and fans was a frequent distraction) and he got back young controllable players with upside for what amounts to 60 games of Mookie Betts (though not foreseen, that is a HUGE win) . He's most likely going to acquire more cost controlled talent, and he's most likely shooting for 2022 before the team is fully competitive. And oddly enough, I'm fine with the timeline if it means we can have 7-8 chances in 8 years at the WS, like the Dodgers currently have.
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Post by dmaineah on Aug 18, 2020 15:22:44 GMT -5
Bloom sucks & only time will get you to see it clearly. He needs to go before he is allowed to continue to make things worst but unfortunately that’s not going to happen. It’s going to be a long decade for the Red Sox if he is allowed to stay in charge. So Bloom arrives on the job told to slash the budget by about 30 - 50 million, loses his manager, loses his ace pitcher, his 2019 ace and is told to slash by trading away his best player and the one other good pitcher he has. And oh yeah, he inherited a farm system that is among the worst in the game with no real help on the horizon. What miraculous move he supposed to make from preventing this season from happening? What are the brilliant move(s) that you would have had him made that would make this craptastic team a contender. Can you muster an intelligent reason why he "sucks"?I mean it's pretty obvious to me that we have no idea what he can do when his hands aren't tied behind his back and that this is a long-term project, not an instant gratification project. Fact is that I have no idea if he's a genius, a lousy GM, or somewhere in between. This is hardly the team or manager that he really wanted on the field, so how do we really know what he can do? Doesn't it make a helluva lot more sense to wait another season or two before definitively declaring anything one way or another about him?!! Or is nuance lost on you? Haven’t you been watching this team? That’s why he sucks. Everything else you have listed is just an excuse. I expect that whoever is in charge of putting together the team for the Boston Red Sox to field a competitive team every year no matter what the circumstances are. This team is an embarrassment & historically bad. I believe it shows Bloom to incompetent & he should be removed immediately so that he can’t make it worst.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Aug 18, 2020 15:34:18 GMT -5
Honestly I wouldn't even bother with him, he's made it pretty clear he's not going to see reason or context on any of this. Bloom sucks & only time will get you to see it clearly. He needs to go before he is allowed to continue to make things worst but unfortunately that’s not going to happen. It’s going to be a long decade for the Red Sox if he is allowed to stay in charge. I'm not sure if you're just trolling right now or are serious, but wasn't he part of the group that brought in Glasnow and Meadows for Chris Archer?
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Post by dmaineah on Aug 18, 2020 15:36:16 GMT -5
He wasn’t in charge
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Aug 18, 2020 15:46:33 GMT -5
Man, even George Steinbrenner would tell you to be a little more patient.
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Post by dmaineah on Aug 18, 2020 15:49:20 GMT -5
Man, even George Steinbrenner would tell you to be a little more patient. Haven’t you seen enough? You want more years of this? Then Blooms your man. I for one have seen enough!
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 18, 2020 15:54:03 GMT -5
So Bloom arrives on the job told to slash the budget by about 30 - 50 million, loses his manager, loses his ace pitcher, his 2019 ace and is told to slash by trading away his best player and the one other good pitcher he has. And oh yeah, he inherited a farm system that is among the worst in the game with no real help on the horizon. What miraculous move he supposed to make from preventing this season from happening? What are the brilliant move(s) that you would have had him made that would make this craptastic team a contender. Can you muster an intelligent reason why he "sucks"?I mean it's pretty obvious to me that we have no idea what he can do when his hands aren't tied behind his back and that this is a long-term project, not an instant gratification project. Fact is that I have no idea if he's a genius, a lousy GM, or somewhere in between. This is hardly the team or manager that he really wanted on the field, so how do we really know what he can do? Doesn't it make a helluva lot more sense to wait another season or two before definitively declaring anything one way or another about him?!! Or is nuance lost on you? Haven’t you been watching this team? That’s why he sucks. Everything else you have listed is just an excuse. I expect that whoever is in charge of putting together the team for the Boston Red Sox to field a competitive team every year no matter what the circumstances are. This team is an embarrassment & historically bad. I believe it shows Bloom to incompetent & he should be removed immediately so that he can’t make it worst. Yes, I have been watching the team. It's just that I'm intelligent enough to know exactly what Bloom walked into and not be ignorant enough to expect miracles the way you foolishly do. You're "everything else is an excuse" is utter nonsense. You have the right to your opinion but it lacks any nuance or understanding of what is really going on. It's not as black and white as you have it being. If a few years passed, the team bore his stamp, they stink AND there's no sign of any real improvement then I'd be critical. But it's myopic to make knee-jerk reactions to a situation that he walked into and had no control over.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 18, 2020 15:55:30 GMT -5
Man, even George Steinbrenner would tell you to be a little more patient. Haven’t you seen enough? You want more years of this? Then Blooms your man. I for one have seen enough! Alright genius. Your ace needs surgery. Your best starter in 2019 has covid issues. You're under orders to trade Mookie and Price. Your manager has to go because of the scandal with Houston. And the farm system you inherit sucks. What moves do you make, Mr. Genius? Please dazzle me.
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Post by incandenza on Aug 18, 2020 15:58:21 GMT -5
Honestly I wouldn't even bother with him, he's made it pretty clear he's not going to see reason or context on any of this. Bloom sucks & only time will get you to see it clearly. He needs to go before he is allowed to continue to make things worst but unfortunately that’s not going to happen. It’s going to be a long decade for the Red Sox if he is allowed to stay in charge. The irresistible force is gonna meet the immovable object for you when Bloom moves JBJ at the trade deadline.
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Post by dmaineah on Aug 18, 2020 16:00:39 GMT -5
It’s not about what I do or would do. It’s about what Blooms done & will do. In Bloom I don’t trust, Mr. Genius.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 18, 2020 16:02:47 GMT -5
It’s not about what I do or would do. It’s about what Blooms done & will do. In Bloom I don’t trust, Mr. Genius. Well if you're going to criticize then give us a workable plan that makes sense and putting Steve Selsky in CF isn't going to fix the crappy pitching. Otherwise in your opinion none of us trust. And as far as Bloom goes, I think most of us are rational enough to give him a few years to see if he can fix the long-term health of the organization.
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Post by dmaineah on Aug 18, 2020 16:05:50 GMT -5
I expect that whoever is in charge of putting together the team for the Boston Red Sox to field a competitive team every year no matter what the circumstances are. This team is an embarrassment & historically bad. I believe it shows Bloom to incompetent & he should be removed immediately so that he can’t make it worst. Yes, I have been watching the team. It's just that I'm intelligent enough to know exactly what Bloom walked into and not be ignorant enough to expect miracles the way you foolishly do. You're "everything else is an excuse" is utter nonsense. You have the right to your opinion but it lacks any nuance or understanding of what is really going on.It's not as black and white as you have it being. If a few years passed, the team bore his stamp, they stink AND there's no sign of any real improvement then I'd be critical. But it's myopic to make knee-jerk reactions to a situation that he walked into and had no control over. I understand perfectly what’s going on & I am unwilling to wait for a few years to pass so that he can continue to put his stamp of stink on this beloved Boston Red Sox Organization as you are.
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Post by dmaineah on Aug 18, 2020 16:06:37 GMT -5
It’s not about what I do or would do. It’s about what Blooms done & will do. In Bloom I don’t trust, Mr. Genius. Well if you're going to criticize then give us a workable plan that makes sense and putting Steve Selsky in CF isn't going to fix the crappy pitching. Otherwise in your opinion none of us trust. And as far as Bloom goes, I think most of us are rational enough to give him a few years to see if he can fix the long-term health of the organization. And you’re wrong
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Post by dmaineah on Aug 18, 2020 16:10:34 GMT -5
Bloom sucks & only time will get you to see it clearly. He needs to go before he is allowed to continue to make things worst but unfortunately that’s not going to happen. It’s going to be a long decade for the Red Sox if he is allowed to stay in charge. The irresistible force is gonna meet the immovable object for you when Bloom moves JBJ at the trade deadline. I doubt anyone trades for JBJ
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 18, 2020 16:10:38 GMT -5
Well if you're going to criticize then give us a workable plan that makes sense and putting Steve Selsky in CF isn't going to fix the crappy pitching. Otherwise in your opinion none of us trust. And as far as Bloom goes, I think most of us are rational enough to give him a few years to see if he can fix the long-term health of the organization. And you’re wrong Because??? Notice you make grand pronouncements but can't articulate what he should have done or even what you would have done to fix the mess he walked into. And because you're incapable of answering simple questions or saying what he should or should not be doing differently nobody on this board respects anything you have to say at all. Give thoughtful reasonable valid reasons and people even if they disagree with you will respect what you have to say.
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Post by dmaineah on Aug 18, 2020 16:15:03 GMT -5
Because??? Notice you make grand pronouncements but can't articulate what he should have done or even what you would have done to fix the mess he walked into. And because you're incapable of answering simple questions or saying what he should or should not be doing differently nobody on this board respects anything you have to say at all. Give thoughtful reasonable valid reasons and people even if they disagree with you will respect what you have to say. Again your wrong. I don’t need to explain anything. The team Bloom has fielded says it all. He needs to go
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 18, 2020 16:18:51 GMT -5
Because??? Notice you make grand pronouncements but can't articulate what he should have done or even what you would have done to fix the mess he walked into. And because you're incapable of answering simple questions or saying what he should or should not be doing differently nobody on this board respects anything you have to say at all. Give thoughtful reasonable valid reasons and people even if they disagree with you will respect what you have to say. Again your wrong. I don’t need to explain anything. The team Bloom has fielded says it all. He needs to go Then he shouldn't have taken the job because they would have sucked no matter who the president of baseball OPS was and for you not to realize that shows how little you really understand baseball or nuance. I'm done arguing with somebody who isn't worthy of my time.
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