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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 23, 2020 21:24:55 GMT -5
I would love to have both but for 2021 and beyond. I would also like to see them kept down for the rest or until they at least lose a year's service time gain) of the year for team chemistry.
That said, Perez has gotten into the range where a reasonable trade for both sides (under the circumstances) should be doable.
Example: Perez + Pillar + JBJ plus 2020 dollars (but staying under the cap, Clevinger's base salary is 4.1m) for the two. That would certainly brighten up our pitching future.
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Aug 23, 2020 22:24:44 GMT -5
I would love to have both but for 2021 and beyond. I would also like to see them kept down for the rest or until they at least lose a year's service time gain) of the year for team chemistry. That said, Perez has gotten into the range where a reasonable trade for both sides (under the circumstances) should be doable. Example: Perez + Pillar + JBJ plus 2020 dollars (but staying under the cap, Clevinger's base salary is 4.1m) for the two. That would certainly brighten up our pitching future. Throw in Casas and Mata, and you may have something. We should then flip Chavis for Judge. Trout and a prospect for Robert Stock? |
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 23, 2020 22:29:45 GMT -5
Can you be any more obnoxious ?
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Aug 23, 2020 22:33:48 GMT -5
Can you be any more obnoxious ? Could you be any more unrealistic? You're that guy in fantasy football that offers up a kicker for Christian McCaffrey. Why would Cleveland give us 2 cost controlled pitchers for our literal trash? Better yet, why would the rest of the league be like, "Nahh, we're good, we won't make a better offer." |
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Aug 23, 2020 22:36:22 GMT -5
Can you be any more obnoxious ? Seriously, how pissed would you be if the sox traded a prime Lester and Buchholz for 3 shit players? That's what you're proposing |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 23, 2020 23:16:31 GMT -5
Given the control and quality of those two, their combined value is like Chris Sale big. Like Clevinger already looks like you get an extra year. So three for him and six for Plesac. Phil you've got to let this go. Zero percent chance you get both guys. If you're the Indians why would you do that? Even if you want to trade both guys, you just wait till the off-season rather than do a deal like that.
Now there might be a trade there for our guys, but honestly I don't see that group even coming close for one of them, nevermind both. Likely something else if it happens.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 24, 2020 2:34:05 GMT -5
I'm convinced that the Indians are between a rock and a hard spot here. Two players risking the health of Carrera and Francona isn't going to sit well. At least one player said he'd opt out if they returned and apparently their leader, Lindor, was quite vocal about it.
I also don't think any team will be overly happy with seeing either as teammates this year which means they pretty much need a trading partner with no plans for this year or doesn't care about atmosphere. If you look at the Indians, their outfield is as bad as you can get and they've lost 2/5 of their rotation yet still have a decent shot at going deep into the playoffs. They are also a budget team which means they are not likely to be able to sign Lindor this offseason.
This might be their last shot for a while. If all three were delivered to the Indians at minimum wage, it wouldn't hurt their books. This might be as good an offer as they are going to get.We will know more in about a week.
Let me ask you this. Do you think in a normal year the Phillies make the trade they just made ?
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Post by ryan24 on Aug 24, 2020 5:40:07 GMT -5
Totally agree with umass here. Zero chance you get both. Two young cost controlled quality pitchers in a league crying for pitching, possibly one but not both. I would think the first thing the indians would want back is a young pitching prospect. Then add a young OF. First team I thought of who could offer a good package is the yankees. Clarke S., Devi G. Then you have frazier or Andular. The braves and the dodgers also have packages that they could put together that would be better than anything we could do reasonably, without hurting the team somewhere else. So, I think the odds are long that we even get one. But, I totally agree with you that getting one or both of these guys would the right move. Maybe Bene and Mata for one.
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Post by jdb on Aug 24, 2020 7:12:47 GMT -5
I think someone like Benintendi would have to lead either package just for one. I’m open to something like that to get a young cost controlled pitcher then sign a Marcel Ozuna for 1-2 years.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 24, 2020 11:48:27 GMT -5
I'm convinced that the Indians are between a rock and a hard spot here. Two players risking the health of Carrera and Francona isn't going to sit well. At least one player said he'd opt out if they returned and apparently their leader, Lindor, was quite vocal about it. I also don't think any team will be overly happy with seeing either as teammates this year which means they pretty much need a trading partner with no plans for this year or doesn't care about atmosphere. If you look at the Indians, their outfield is as bad as you can get and they've lost 2/5 of their rotation yet still have a decent shot at going deep into the playoffs. They are also a budget team which means they are not likely to be able to sign Lindor this offseason. This might be their last shot for a while. If all three were delivered to the Indians at minimum wage, it wouldn't hurt their books. This might be as good an offer as they are going to get.We will know more in about a week. Let me ask you this. Do you think in a normal year the Phillies make the trade they just made ? I'll start with the last part. Yes. They traded a guy with a big arm who hasn't put it together in three years and their #23 prospect. It was the type of deal we had to make, yet wasn't some HR type deal. We've seen much bigger packages for relievers in the past. There's a difference between GM/scouts being a little surprised versus them being shocked like a Chapman trade, Miller trade or when we got Varitek and Lowe for much less than we just gave up. People are starting to go a little overboard on how good that trade was. Remember we also have up a player to be named later or cash. Then wanting the package you propose makes 100% sense. Yet they do have Lindor for one more year, unless you think they trade him. I'm fairly certain if they wanted that group of our players they could put together an offer easily without those two pitchers. Perez isn't the best starter available though and frankly is likely not going to maintain this current pace. His value is much closer to a guy like Logan Allen than those two pitchers. Add another piece or two and that's about what I would expect for that group. Which frankly wouldn't be bad if the other pieces were good. The Indians two pitchers project to be worth something like 20 to 30 bwar going forward. They are proven cost controlled starters. What the rest of the league is just going to sit back and not get involved if they are available? Why wouldn't they just leave them down, then see what happens in the off-season? They didn't murder anyone, no one got sick. They are being punished, with both set to lose a year of service time. If they can't mend those fences, then you trade them then. When the whole league can make offers. With a rather weak free agent class you'd have many teams interested. Let's remember the Indians are a very well fun organization. |
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 26, 2020 1:44:39 GMT -5
First off, for whatever reason I thought Lindor was a free agent after this year so, now I agree that it would make more sense for the Indians to wait for a giant selloff this coming off season.
Things should get quite interesting in Ohio, Clevinger, the only one that knowingly traveled with the team, is going to be activated for a start Wednesday. Several Indians supposedly including Lindor, were reportedly quite vocal about the situation.
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