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9/3-9/6 Red Sox vs. Blue Jays Series Thread
manfred
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Post by manfred on Sept 5, 2020 22:48:50 GMT -5
Hey man, Mike Kickam won a major league game. Career 10+ ERA. Whatever else, you can’t take that away from him. Screw the draft... I’m psyched for the guy. 🍻
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Sept 6, 2020 1:47:05 GMT -5
Love seeing Foulke. After they won the Series, I got my champion jersey with his number. Having a legit closer was one of the huge differences (and he spared me the ‘86 experience). Always a favorite. Seeing Embree reminded me of this great bit of trivia--he's the only guy in MLB history that we know of who earned a win and recorded a putout without throwing a pitch.
Embree entered a tie game with 2 outs in the top of the 8th and immediately picked Austin Kearns way off first. Todd Helton chased Kearns up the line on the rundown and threw to Troy Tulowitzki, and Embree covered first and took the return throw and made the tag.
In the bottom half of the frame, Embree earned a win when Clint Barmes hit a bases-loaded 1-out fly to Nyjer Morgan (who was at the plate when Embree performed his feat) and Carlos Gonzaez scored before Seth Smith (who had pinch-hit for Embree and walked) got thrown out at 3B! How many last-AB winning runs in MLB history have scored on a SF/DP like this? What are the odds you went to a game and saw both of these things happen?
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Sept 6, 2020 2:41:39 GMT -5
Weber's outing looked good in the box score (I fast-forwarded through him), but he had outs of EV 105.3, 109.2, 101.7, 99.7, 99.3, 110.2 (error), and 96.2. His pERA was 7.56, which means that he had 2 runs worth of at-em balls.
His season this year is misleading:
3 starts where he walked a lot of guys, .167 versus .043 since his recall. So you can toss that out as screwed up mechanics that are probably fixed in a normal situation. However ...
5 overall OK relief outings, 2 bad starts. But right now I don't see a reason for why the starts should be worse, and I would bet that there's not a significant split in any of the metrics.
I think he's a guy who has proven he can get MLB hitters out when he has his plus command, but so far he hasn't had it often enough to make him a good pitcher. There's talent there, but the problem is ungodl(e)y; there's no obvious way to increase the percentage of plus-command outings that I can see.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Sept 6, 2020 2:51:26 GMT -5
Hey man, Mike Kickam won a major league game. Career 10+ ERA. Whatever else, you can’t take that away from him. Screw the draft... I’m psyched for the guy. 🍻 Dropped his pERA to 3.73, which is one of the better numbers on the roster. We'll see how long that lasts!
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Post by ancientsoxfogey on Sept 6, 2020 6:07:56 GMT -5
You know, they just might not have the same goals you do. You understand that, right? I don't expect the players to try and lose. I want them to try. It's just frustrating that winning these games is doing more harm than good at this point. Maybe it isn't doing more harm than good. I've started to hear conspiracy theorists speculate that maybe Manfred, out to get the Sox, wouldn't let them get the #1 selection, manipulating next year's draft order criteria to make sure it wouldn't happen. If the Sox end up with the #2,3, or 4 pick based on this "season's" record, maybe he'd just let the criterion stand as usual.
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Post by DesignatedForAssignment on Sept 6, 2020 7:51:55 GMT -5
ESPN has Sunday:
LHP RAY on regular rest vs. Triggs on short rest. Did about 45 pitches on 9/2, So it works
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Post by patford on Sept 6, 2020 7:54:24 GMT -5
There is no possible way the Sox are tanking. The guys playing are in many cases playing to try and stay in MLB or, if established, are looking to boost their MLB value. I suppose there could be an argument management is tanking but the fact is every year as the trade deadline approaches there is wide discussion of which teams should be sellers or buyers. Towards the end of this "season" there might emerge some indication of tanking if healthy stars like Bogaerts, Devers, Verdugo develop "phantom injuries" and are taken out of the lineup.
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Post by Guidas on Sept 6, 2020 9:20:07 GMT -5
Great win.
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manfred
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Post by manfred on Sept 6, 2020 9:33:41 GMT -5
JBJ officially having a pretty good season. He is now at .8 bWAR, second on the roster (with Moreland gone). Interestingly, the likely best OF FA target, George Springer, is at .9. I would be all for keeping JBJ at a fraction of Springer’s cost.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Sept 6, 2020 9:49:01 GMT -5
JBJ officially having a pretty good season. He is now at .8 bWAR, second on the roster (with Moreland gone). Interestingly, the likely best OF FA target, George Springer, is at .9. I would be all for keeping JBJ at a fraction of Springer’s cost. The only fly I see in that ointment is that Benni, Verdugo and Duran all bat left handed. Pillar would be a better fit.
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manfred
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Post by manfred on Sept 6, 2020 10:29:15 GMT -5
JBJ officially having a pretty good season. He is now at .8 bWAR, second on the roster (with Moreland gone). Interestingly, the likely best OF FA target, George Springer, is at .9. I would be all for keeping JBJ at a fraction of Springer’s cost. The only fly I see in that ointment is that Benni, Verdugo and Duran all bat left handed. Pillar would be a better fit. That is fair. I think JBJ is a good deal better than Pillar (who is having an equal season in WAR, I admit). But you’re right that there are balance issues. I guess I was thinking in a vacuum that I’d take JBJ over an expensive upgrade. But an equally inexpensive push? Maybe so.
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Post by unitspin on Sept 6, 2020 10:34:49 GMT -5
JBJ officially having a pretty good season. He is now at .8 bWAR, second on the roster (with Moreland gone). Interestingly, the likely best OF FA target, George Springer, is at .9. I would be all for keeping JBJ at a fraction of Springer’s cost. lol jbj will be back down to .230 by the end of the season looking like himself again. At 10 mil a year id rather take Munoz out there at under a mil. The most disappointing player to watch of the last ten years has been jbj he is painful to watch at the plate. No thanks easy pass.
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manfred
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Post by manfred on Sept 6, 2020 10:42:15 GMT -5
JBJ officially having a pretty good season. He is now at .8 bWAR, second on the roster (with Moreland gone). Interestingly, the likely best OF FA target, George Springer, is at .9. I would be all for keeping JBJ at a fraction of Springer’s cost. lol jbj will be back down to .230 by the end of the season looking like himself again. At 10 mil a year id rather take Munoz out there at under a mil. The most disappointing player to watch of the last ten years has been jbj he is painful to watch at the plate. No thanks easy pass. Most disappointing? Wow. From 2016-2019 he average 3.1 bWAR. Now, that is a bit deceptive because of one huge year, but his lowest year was 1.9 last year. And he’s on pace to easily clear 2 bWAR in 162 games this season. A guy who is consistently minimally hitting starter-level WAR can’t be that disappointing. How many flat-out bust have come and gone in those years?
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Post by unitspin on Sept 6, 2020 10:47:29 GMT -5
lol jbj will be back down to .230 by the end of the season looking like himself again. At 10 mil a year id rather take Munoz out there at under a mil. The most disappointing player to watch of the last ten years has been jbj he is painful to watch at the plate. No thanks easy pass. Most disappointing? Wow. From 2016-2019 he average 3.1 bWAR. Now, that is a bit deceptive because of one huge year, but his lowest year was 1.9 last year. And he’s on pace to easily clear 2 bWAR in 162 games this season. A guy who is consistently minimally hitting starter-level WAR can’t be that disappointing. How many flat-out bust have come and gone in those years? once again you reword a posters comment to fit your argument. I said him at the plate is painful to watch. The one good catch he makes everyone ten games is fun to watch but extremely overrated.
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Post by unitspin on Sept 6, 2020 10:50:13 GMT -5
Is pillar worth 10 mil a year, manfred?
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manfred
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Post by manfred on Sept 6, 2020 10:59:57 GMT -5
Most disappointing? Wow. From 2016-2019 he average 3.1 bWAR. Now, that is a bit deceptive because of one huge year, but his lowest year was 1.9 last year. And he’s on pace to easily clear 2 bWAR in 162 games this season. A guy who is consistently minimally hitting starter-level WAR can’t be that disappointing. How many flat-out bust have come and gone in those years? once again you reword a posters comment to fit your argument. I said him at the plate is painful to watch. The one good catch he makes everyone ten games is fun to watch but extremely overrated. He has been 2.0 oWAR or better every season since 2016. I agree he is not pretty, but his results are surprisingly a plus. But I did not twist you saying he is the most disappointing guy. I wasn’t taking it too seriously, because I assume (like many of us) you were being hyperbolic. But JBJ has been largely good, and I am not sure how much more can be asked of a guy. He has been an all-star, a gold glove, has consistently been solid. I don’t personally pay either JBJ or Pillar $10 million. I would be surprised if either of them find a market at that price. I’d definitely go $5 million. I might consider a few more than that if necessary. The counter question is: what do you do in the OF? They will have Verdugo set. Benny likely set. And x. So you have to sign someone. Do you go middle and keep JBJ (or sign Pillar); cheap and find a low-hanging free agent; or expensive on Springer? Or... rush Duran without a net?
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Sept 6, 2020 11:20:08 GMT -5
i loved watching Nomar and he was an all time favorite for me, but Xander has surpassed him. I consider us lucky to have such a great player and person (by all accounts) manning the SS position. I pray to the baseball Gods that he stays with us until the end.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Sept 6, 2020 12:12:07 GMT -5
The only fly I see in that ointment is that Benni, Verdugo and Duran all bat left handed. Pillar would be a better fit. That is fair. I think JBJ is a good deal better than Pillar (who is having an equal season in WAR, I admit). But you’re right that there are balance issues. I guess I was thinking in a vacuum that I’d take JBJ over an expensive upgrade. But an equally inexpensive push? Maybe so. Verdugo is completely agnostic when it comes to pitcher-handedness. If anything he has a reverse split. That was something I thought was likely from observing his at bats with the Sox, and it's confirmed from his career splits (that last column,tOPS+ is BR's way of saying he has no split relative to OPS):
Split | G | PA | AB | R | SO | BA | OBP | SLG | OPS | BAbip | tOPS+ |
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vs RHP | 177 | 459 | 416 | 61 | 69 | .281 | .340 | .469 | .809 | .301 | 100 | vs LHP | 98 | 189 | 174 | 21 | 31 | .310 | .351 | .454 | .805 | .359 | 100 |
Benitendi and Bradley do show a difference with weaker numbers against lefthanded pitching. To me that means having a 4th outfielder - a right-handed hitter to spell them - makes just as much sense. That's if Bradley is re-signed. That may mean Pillar, or it could easily be another bat also, somebody more affordable. Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Original TableGenerated 9/6/2020.
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Post by unitspin on Sept 6, 2020 12:13:33 GMT -5
If they get jbj for 5 mil a year id hold my nose. But no way he takes that deal, he overvaules himself. Someone told me he charges more then jd, xander and sale for an autograph. Guys agent is boras him at 5 mil I just do not see it and for anything more then that id take a stopgap to see what Duran is. We wont have the most offensive gifted OF but the rest of the lineup looks pretty good with jd coming back. We need to add pitching, the bullpen could use a couple arms in the off-season.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Sept 6, 2020 12:19:43 GMT -5
i loved watching Nomar and he was an all time favorite for me, but Xander has surpassed him. I consider us lucky to have such a great player and person (by all accounts) manning the SS position. I pray to the baseball Gods that he stays with us until the end. That uppercut he delivers when he's ready to launch one is a thing of beauty. It looks as if he's barely hitting the ball, but if you watch closely you'll see how he generates the spin that carries the ball such a long way. More than that, he made himself a complete hitter by working at it, learning how to go the other way and even how to power liners to the deepest part of centerfield. I'll bet opposing pitchers spend a lot of time before the game on what to do with him.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Sept 6, 2020 12:27:51 GMT -5
If they get jbj for 5 mil a year id hold my nose. But no way he takes that deal, he overvaules himself. Someone told me he charges more then jd, xander and sale for an autograph. Guys agent is boras him at 5 mil I just do not see it and for anything more then that id take a stopgap to see what Duran is. We wont have the most offensive gifted OF but the rest of the lineup looks pretty good with jd coming back. We need to add pitching, the bullpen could use a couple arms in the off-season. It's not about how he values himself. It's about how teams value him.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Sept 6, 2020 12:52:03 GMT -5
Triggs wants back in.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Sept 6, 2020 12:53:18 GMT -5
What happened to Munoz ?
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kevfc89
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Post by kevfc89 on Sept 6, 2020 13:04:40 GMT -5
Plawecki trying to be the best backup catcher in baseball
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manfred
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Post by manfred on Sept 6, 2020 13:25:06 GMT -5
If a pitcher pitches a no-hitter in a double header, I assume it doesn’t count. Does a complete game?
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