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Let’s Go Shopping - 2020-21 FAs
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Post by incandenza on Sept 26, 2020 17:27:35 GMT -5
Wasn't the deal that Bloom looked into trading JBJ last offseason and was surprised at the general lack of interest? I think there's a possibility he values him more than most other GMs, which is plausible given that JBJ's value is of the less obvious sort. I can see where Boras will probably get some GM to give JBJ a multi year deal now possibly at the 11m he's currently making over 2-3y since he's finished strong this season. It won't be a wise decision IMO for a guy who really only has had 1 other productive season with his bat other than the shortened 2020 one. Think myself bringing in some low cost player.. Another Pillar type.. Even pushing Duran into a starter role after ST would be preferable to giving JBJ anything north of 6m and more than 1y. Myself? Believe, as a fallback plan Benintendi could play the position if had to. Chavis some LF. Munoz some OF, Verdugo is a capable CF and RF. Other options than throwing bad money at fluke seasons, or short spurts. Remember Sandoval? Joe Kelly? Don't fall for JBJ LT deal. It ain't real. $11 million a year? That would surprise me. Kole Calhoun signed for 2/16 last offseason and he's been pretty comparable to JBJ in value over his career, albeit a different kind of player. Starlin Castro signed for 2/12. Corey Dickerson signed for 2/17.5. Cesar Hernandez: 1/6.25. This is the range of players I'd put JBJ in. None of them signed for $10 million/year, or for more than 2 years. And this is without taking the horrendous economic situation in baseball into account. I still think something like 2/15 or 3/21 would get it done, and I'd be happy to see the Red Sox do that.
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Post by unitspin on Sept 26, 2020 17:28:41 GMT -5
I can see where Boras will probably get some GM to give JBJ a multi year deal now possibly at the 11m he's currently making over 2-3y since he's finished strong this season. It won't be a wise decision IMO for a guy who really only has had 1 other productive season with his bat other than the shortened 2020 one. Think myself bringing in some low cost player.. Another Pillar type.. Even pushing Duran into a starter role after ST would be preferable to giving JBJ anything north of 6m and more than 1y. Myself? Believe, as a fallback plan Benintendi could play the position if had to. Chavis some LF. Munoz some OF, Verdugo is a capable CF and RF. Other options than throwing bad money at fluke seasons, or short spurts. Remember Sandoval? Joe Kelly? Don't fall for JBJ LT deal. It ain't real. I can see this latter case, but let’s face it: unless everything comes up aces, that is a baaaadddd outfield. Benny needs a legit turnaround, and Chavis and Munoz are huge risks. I can’t see being serious about competing and not bringing in a starter — maybe JBJ, maybe someone even better. But Chavis/Benny/AV is not an outfield you trot out to say “we’re in it this year.” Of course, I also don’t think they are in it next year without massive, costly moves, so bagging, going with that sub-par outfield and saving money wouldn’t bother me that much. Like adding jbj to that OF makes it any better or any worse. I'll take the guys at league minimum.
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Post by manfred on Sept 26, 2020 17:30:46 GMT -5
I can see this latter case, but let’s face it: unless everything comes up aces, that is a baaaadddd outfield. Benny needs a legit turnaround, and Chavis and Munoz are huge risks. I can’t see being serious about competing and not bringing in a starter — maybe JBJ, maybe someone even better. But Chavis/Benny/AV is not an outfield you trot out to say “we’re in it this year.” Of course, I also don’t think they are in it next year without massive, costly moves, so bagging, going with that sub-par outfield and saving money wouldn’t bother me that much. Like adding jbj to that OF makes it any better or any worse. I'll take the guys at league minimum. It certainly makes it better. Better enough? Probably not. But that is why I think they aren’t that good without some huge moves.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 26, 2020 17:30:55 GMT -5
If Bradley get 2-3 years at $11 million plus then we don't have a crap market, that's a crazy strong market.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 13,873
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Post by cdj on Sept 26, 2020 17:32:02 GMT -5
I can see this latter case, but let’s face it: unless everything comes up aces, that is a baaaadddd outfield. Benny needs a legit turnaround, and Chavis and Munoz are huge risks. I can’t see being serious about competing and not bringing in a starter — maybe JBJ, maybe someone even better. But Chavis/Benny/AV is not an outfield you trot out to say “we’re in it this year.” Of course, I also don’t think they are in it next year without massive, costly moves, so bagging, going with that sub-par outfield and saving money wouldn’t bother me that much. Like adding jbj to that OF makes it any better or any worse. I'll take the guys at league minimum. It absolutely makes it a much better outfield and it’s not even close. Benny is hot garbage in center and Chavis is presumably hot garbage in LF. Signing Bradley gives you premium CF defense and allows Benintendi to play LF where he handles the monster pretty well and doesn’t have to worry about his arm being tested all that much
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Post by soxin8 on Sept 26, 2020 17:39:12 GMT -5
Here is a list of the top free agents and speculation on who would receive a qualifying offer back in April, as well as who is not eligible for the offer. www.mlbtraderumors.com/2020/04/potential-2020-21-qualifying-offer-candidates.htmlIf the Sox are a playoff team next year, and I think they will compete for a spot with 10 teams, and are probably a favorite to make an expanded playoff, there are several players that could help.
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Post by patford on Sept 26, 2020 18:02:07 GMT -5
For the outfield I like Bradley better than anything out there. Springer would likely provide more offense but at a higher price tag. It really doesn't look like a very appealing year for big time free agents. If they are going to spend they should go after Bauer.
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Post by unitspin on Sept 26, 2020 18:21:04 GMT -5
Like adding jbj to that OF makes it any better or any worse. I'll take the guys at league minimum. It absolutely makes it a much better outfield and it’s not even close. Benny is hot garbage in center and Chavis is presumably hot garbage in LF. Signing Bradley gives you premium CF defense and allows Benintendi to play LF where he handles the monster pretty well and doesn’t have to worry about his arm being tested all that much Id put money on that changing jbj for the platoon. That will have zero impact on whether this team competes next year or not. Jbj wants a multi year deal and if the sox do it, you should have never changed the GM. His impact on this team is replaceable for alot less money. This team moving forward should go cheap on his talent level and go after the impact players with the savings.
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Post by unitspin on Sept 26, 2020 18:41:43 GMT -5
For the outfield I like Bradley better than anything out there. Springer would likely provide more offense but at a higher price tag. It really doesn't look like a very appealing year for big time free agents. If they are going to spend they should go after Bauer. Jbj is better than Marcel Ozuna?
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Post by patford on Sept 26, 2020 19:15:39 GMT -5
For the outfield I like Bradley better than anything out there. Springer would likely provide more offense but at a higher price tag. It really doesn't look like a very appealing year for big time free agents. If they are going to spend they should go after Bauer. Jbj is better than Marcel Ozuna? I think that like Springer he would be much more expensive than Bradley. There's a weird thing about Bradley. It always seems like the fans who want to get rid of him also believe he's going to command really big money. I like him. I don't think another team is going to spend big on him. We'll see.
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Post by unitspin on Sept 26, 2020 19:59:42 GMT -5
Jbj is better than Marcel Ozuna? I think that like Springer he would be much more expensive than Bradley. There's a weird thing about Bradley. It always seems like the fans who want to get rid of him also believe he's going to command really big money. I like him. I don't think another team is going to spend big on him. We'll see. If jbj will come back on a one year at 7mil even I would say do it. But with boras no way that is happening. And if your giving him a multi year deal I'm all set. Ive seen him in his prime if he got worse at the plate he is almost unplayable. Id rather pay more for ozuna or less for pillar.
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Post by johnsilver52 on Sept 26, 2020 21:34:03 GMT -5
For the outfield I like Bradley better than anything out there. Springer would likely provide more offense but at a higher price tag. It really doesn't look like a very appealing year for big time free agents. If they are going to spend they should go after Bauer. Jbj is better than Marcel Ozuna? Ozuna is another Boras guy (or was last heard) so thinking probably take a long and hard look at the market, like JBJ before signs. That said.. Watched him with the Fish few seasons and an amazingly talented all the way around player. Would much rather have the guy remember seeing few seasons back if he's the same. Far better bat, not as good with the glove, tho wouldn't say he's the team 1st guy JBJ is and was known for outbursts, not just directed toward then owner Loria either, but some of his then teammates.
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Post by carmenfanzone on Sept 26, 2020 22:19:13 GMT -5
How about Schoop to play second for one year while we see if Downs is for real. Also wouldn't mind the Red Sox re-signing Pillar and Moreland (if San Diego does not pick up his option). Pillar could be a bridge to Duran in center.
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Post by threeifbaerga on Sept 27, 2020 7:20:17 GMT -5
How about Schoop to play second for one year while we see if Downs is for real. Also wouldn't mind the Red Sox re-signing Pillar and Moreland (if San Diego does not pick up his option). Pillar could be a bridge to Duran in center.
I'd imagine that after the year Pillar has had he'll be looking for a multi-year deal.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 27, 2020 7:39:18 GMT -5
They might put somebody else in CF for about a month tops, but I really think that the CF next year is Jaren Duran. I don't think Bloom is punting a draft pick to sign a free agent, so while I have no doubt the Sox can sign Springer if they want to - and I wouldn't be surprised at all if Boston is at the top of his list, I think Ozuna is more likely a target than Springer.
But my point is that I think Duran and Verdugo will make up 2/3 of the OF next year.
The bigger mystery to me is LF than CF. I don't hold Benintendi's season against, but the issue with him is that he hasn't really hit well since the first half of 2018. I imagine his trade value isn't that high right now, so I can see Bloom hanging onto Benintendi and getting a Pillar type OF, although I wouldn't anticipate Pillar coming back. That OF could come in a trade rather than a free agent signing.
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Post by manfred on Sept 27, 2020 9:08:35 GMT -5
They might put somebody else in CF for about a month tops, but I really think that the CF next year is Jaren Duran. I don't think Bloom is punting a draft pick to sign a free agent, so while I have no doubt the Sox can sign Springer if they want to - and I wouldn't be surprised at all if Boston is at the top of his list, I think Ozuna is more likely a target than Springer. But my point is that I think Duran and Verdugo will make up 2/3 of the OF next year. The bigger mystery to me is LF than CF. I don't hold Benintendi's season against, but the issue with him is that he hasn't really hit well since the first half of 2018. I imagine his trade value isn't that high right now, so I can see Bloom hanging onto Benintendi and getting a Pillar type OF, although I wouldn't anticipate Pillar coming back. That OF could come in a trade rather than a free agent signing. I have a hard time believe Duran is starting for much of next season. Put differently, I have a really hard time believing they don’t go into spring with a 3 man outfield in mind that he is not part of. He might ideally force his way in with a huge start in AAA, but that would still be mid-season. Reports from the pseudo-fames this year were good. But this is is still the guy who had not-great numbers at AA last year. He needs to get back to real games and show it before he is just handed CF. Don’t get me wrong... I’m excited for him and hope he’s the guy of the future. I just think he shouldn’t be rushed.
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Post by sibbysisti on Sept 27, 2020 9:16:39 GMT -5
Ozuna is the front runner in my mind. A free agent without a qualifying offer, unlike Springer, he can play LF adequately (Gold Glove 2017). He can then slide into DH after Martinez. He’d be costly, though, having turned down a Cards offer to sign a 1 yr. $18,000,000. with the Braves. Boras client.
Bauer would be an outstanding acquisition. No way we can afford both.
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Post by unitspin on Sept 27, 2020 9:28:35 GMT -5
Ozuna is the front runner in my mind. A free agent without a qualifying offer, unlike Springer, he can play LF adequately (Gold Glove 2017). He can then slide into DH after Martinez. He’d be costly, though, having turned down a Cards offer to sign a 1 yr. $18,000,000. with the Braves. Boras client. Bauer would be an outstanding acquisition. No way we can afford both. So atl can't offer ozuna a qualifying offer? I was not sure about that. Everyone forgets about dj lemahieu as yanks cannot afford him bcs of the cap. And I wonder if the reds can afford to bring back bauer. This off-season the red sox have alot of power. Not alot of teams can spend money. We could get some deals.
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Post by manfred on Sept 27, 2020 9:32:23 GMT -5
For all the JBJ abuse, here’s perspective: JBJ bWAR: 1.6. Verdugo: 1.9. JBJ HRs? 6. Verdugo? 6. JBJ OBP? .360. Verdugo? .367.
Calm down: obviously I am being selective. But the point is that if Verdugo is the best player on the team this season, the gap between him and JBJ is not that big. And obviously JBJ’s value is more his glove than his bat.
In short, I think people under-value JBJ.
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Post by unitspin on Sept 27, 2020 10:24:52 GMT -5
For all the JBJ abuse, here’s perspective: JBJ bWAR: 1.6. Verdugo: 1.9. JBJ HRs? 6. Verdugo? 6. JBJ OBP? .360. Verdugo? .367. Calm down: obviously I am being selective. But the point is that if Verdugo is the best player on the team this season, the gap between him and JBJ is not that big. And obviously JBJ’s value is more his glove than his bat. In short, I think people under-value JBJ. If your trying to win next season who do you add jbj @ 21/3 yrs or DJ @ 45/3 yrs?
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Post by manfred on Sept 27, 2020 10:39:18 GMT -5
For all the JBJ abuse, here’s perspective: JBJ bWAR: 1.6. Verdugo: 1.9. JBJ HRs? 6. Verdugo? 6. JBJ OBP? .360. Verdugo? .367. Calm down: obviously I am being selective. But the point is that if Verdugo is the best player on the team this season, the gap between him and JBJ is not that big. And obviously JBJ’s value is more his glove than his bat. In short, I think people under-value JBJ. If your trying to win next season who do you add jbj @ 21/3 yrs or DJ @ 45/3 yrs? LeMahieu? Apples and oranges. He ain’t playing CF. Anyway, if those are the prices, they are both doable.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Sept 27, 2020 11:22:28 GMT -5
For all the JBJ abuse, here’s perspective: JBJ bWAR: 1.6. Verdugo: 1.9. JBJ HRs? 6. Verdugo? 6. JBJ OBP? .360. Verdugo? .367. Calm down: obviously I am being selective. But the point is that if Verdugo is the best player on the team this season, the gap between him and JBJ is not that big. And obviously JBJ’s value is more his glove than his bat. In short, I think people under-value JBJ. If your trying to win next season who do you add jbj @ 21/3 yrs or DJ @ 45/3 yrs? I go with JBJ regardless. LaMahieu is going to be 33 next year. JBJ will be 33 in the final year of that deal and would at least be a solid guy to have. It doesn't seem like JBJ wants to come back but maybe I am reading too much into it. We need outfielders pretty badly and JBJ's hypothetical contract would be more tradeable to me as well. I'd rather go with Profar or Schoop at 2B.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 27, 2020 11:25:24 GMT -5
They might put somebody else in CF for about a month tops, but I really think that the CF next year is Jaren Duran. I don't think Bloom is punting a draft pick to sign a free agent, so while I have no doubt the Sox can sign Springer if they want to - and I wouldn't be surprised at all if Boston is at the top of his list, I think Ozuna is more likely a target than Springer. But my point is that I think Duran and Verdugo will make up 2/3 of the OF next year. The bigger mystery to me is LF than CF. I don't hold Benintendi's season against, but the issue with him is that he hasn't really hit well since the first half of 2018. I imagine his trade value isn't that high right now, so I can see Bloom hanging onto Benintendi and getting a Pillar type OF, although I wouldn't anticipate Pillar coming back. That OF could come in a trade rather than a free agent signing. I have a hard time believe Duran is starting for much of next season. Put differently, I have a really hard time believing they don’t go into spring with a 3 man outfield in mind that he is not part of. He might ideally force his way in with a huge start in AAA, but that would still be mid-season. Reports from the pseudo-fames this year were good. But this is is still the guy who had not-great numbers at AA last year. He needs to get back to real games and show it before he is just handed CF. Don’t get me wrong... I’m excited for him and hope he’s the guy of the future. I just think he shouldn’t be rushed. Understood, but consider that he is going to be 24.5 years old next season when it begins. That's not a 22 year old. Maybe I'm falling for this, but with what Gammons wrote, it makes me think that's how the FO sees Duran, that he's somebody they anticipate will be a starting CF sooner than later. I would suspect that he will start in AAA for 2021, but by May will probably be called up. I don't think the Sox make a contract commitment that blocks Duran from playing CF. If they do that, I suspect it will be a LF because they think that Benintendi might have seen his best days. I do think they will get a guy who can be a Pillar type #4 OF to hedge their bets and fill in the gap until they call Duran up. I do think he is part of the Red Sox plans next year.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Sept 27, 2020 11:31:58 GMT -5
Duran might not even pan out and they could use a fourth outfielder even if he does. Outfielders will get hurt and need days off and JBJ can play all three positions (can be brought in as a defensive replacement) and wouldn't be that expensive.
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Post by manfred on Sept 27, 2020 11:37:36 GMT -5
I just see Gavin Lux as another in a nearly infinite line of cautionary tales. Young guys struggle. Even the ones who turn out great. If the idea is to compete next year, any plan that plugs Duran in is kind of crazy, especially with a question in LF. As I’ve said before, you are running the risk of a really bad outfield. It may be forward looking, but it is not a strategy for competing next year.
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