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9/18 - 9/20 Red Sox vs. Yankees Series Thread
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Sept 20, 2020 14:26:09 GMT -5
It is tricky... Houck looks good as a starter, but his velocity is a concern. I wonder what happens a few times through the league. I can see him being a pretty good starter or a really good reliever. The question is... which is more valuable? If he can mix games like this in even with stinkers, he’s a real find for the rotation. Have to at least try to develop him into a starter I think. He fits the profile and still has a lot of years of control. Higher potential return there. Especially with Sale out and potentially ERod a good chunk of next year.
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Post by manfred on Sept 20, 2020 14:35:51 GMT -5
It is tricky... Houck looks good as a starter, but his velocity is a concern. I wonder what happens a few times through the league. I can see him being a pretty good starter or a really good reliever. The question is... which is more valuable? If he can mix games like this in even with stinkers, he’s a real find for the rotation. I'm just confused because reports (even from this site) say he's 93-95mph on the fastball with the ability to reach back to 98mph. We haven't seen that at all except for his first inning of his first start. And I know someone here said that he's usually been able to hold onto his velocity, so I hope his arm is ok... I am not too concerned yet. He seems to be throwing mostly 2-seam fastballs. But when he is hitting 87 in the 5th, I certainly wonder. I can live with a drop in velocity if they think his 4-seamer is too straight. He might touch 98, but straight and 94 is worse than a sinking 90-91. If he can go 1 inning at 98 and maybe sinking 92-93.... that’s when I wonder if he might be a lights-out reliever. I agree with everyone that he has earned a long look at starter. Hell, he’s pitched two games in a row as good as anyone on this year’s team. He’s doing something right and not much wrong. Add: 3 hits in 11 innings. Hats off to TH.
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kevfc89
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Post by kevfc89 on Sept 20, 2020 14:38:18 GMT -5
BOBBYBOMB
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kevfc89
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Post by kevfc89 on Sept 20, 2020 14:51:21 GMT -5
Even positive results aside, this is the best game of Chavis at bats I can remember in a while
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Post by station13 on Sept 20, 2020 15:25:06 GMT -5
Never trust a LHP out the pen.
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Post by manfred on Sept 20, 2020 15:33:34 GMT -5
The outfield celebration with Chavis and Puello is just wrong. No Benny, no Mookie, and you have to come up with a new one.
Add: heck, I’ll even go no Benny no Verdugo. At least that is the real outfield now. But, no, not these guys. Nope.
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Post by sarasoxer on Sept 20, 2020 15:47:53 GMT -5
It is tricky... Houck looks good as a starter, but his velocity is a concern. I wonder what happens a few times through the league. I can see him being a pretty good starter or a really good reliever. The question is... which is more valuable? If he can mix games like this in even with stinkers, he’s a real find for the rotation. I'm just confused because reports (even from this site) say he's 93-95mph on the fastball with the ability to reach back to 98mph. We haven't seen that at all except for his first inning of his first start. And I know someone here said that he's usually been able to hold onto his velocity, so I hope his arm is ok... It will be interesting to see if the scouting report is altered. From what we've seen, he is more 89-93 with a rapid velocity drop..."Touching 98" and having the "best FB" in our minors doesn't appear accurate unless fatigue, injury or intentional throttling down operate.
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Post by unitspin on Sept 20, 2020 15:50:47 GMT -5
Good showing for houck against a great lineup. His velocity though drops like crazy throughout the game. Hopefully it's something they can work on. Maybe he can be the four or five starter for them next season. This gets me even more pumped for Mata bcs his stuff plays up more then houcks.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 20, 2020 16:34:32 GMT -5
Impressive outing from Houck. Won't read too much into it other than he looks like he can help them whether it's as a starter or a high leverage reliever. He's a guy who can definitely fit on the next seriously contending team (although if Manfred succeeds with his plan to put virtually every team in the playoffs, who knows what a seriously contending team is anyways?)
I won't go crazy over two strong starts. I do remember Vaughn Eshelman's first two starts and there's a kid in 1999 who debuted with two great starts, got hurt, and never pitched again, and right now his name escapes my memory.
Others older than me remember Billy Rohr's first two starts.
That said, I'm willing to go out on a ledge and say that Houck will last longer than all of these guys and go on to have a nice Justin Masterson type career, whether it's in the rotation or the pen because he really does have good stuff.
Well, miracles of miracles, the Red Sox finally beat the Yankees. So today that. Tomorrow Covid-19 gets eradicated.
Given where the Sox are, I'd be quite alright with that being the final victory of this oh so lovely season. Twenty in '20 sounds like a nice round number.
Let's hope to get that 2nd pick in the draft (with Dalbec hitting bombs, and our future utility guys hitting well in losses if that makes everybody feel better). Of course if they did, I don't trust Manfred to let that stick.
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Post by patford on Sept 20, 2020 17:05:02 GMT -5
I noticed that the Yankees' "next Pedro" (LOL) was also throwing 90-92, so maybe there was a headwind.
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Post by patford on Sept 20, 2020 17:13:38 GMT -5
Only in Yankee-Land can a guy who is barely four feet tall be proclaimed as "the next Pedro."
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Post by incandenza on Sept 20, 2020 18:24:39 GMT -5
The outfield celebration with Chavis and Puello is just wrong. No Benny, no Mookie, and you have to come up with a new one. Add: heck, I’ll even go no Benny no Verdugo. At least that is the real outfield now. But, no, not these guys. Nope. It's haaaappening....
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kevfc89
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Post by kevfc89 on Sept 20, 2020 18:41:30 GMT -5
seems Houck knew he didn't have his best fastball today...good on him to make his stuff work today despite that.
“Whenever velo is down like that, I typically lean on the two-seamer,” he said. “It’s moving a lot more than usual. Just went out there and attacked with that.”
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Sept 20, 2020 19:05:17 GMT -5
Impressive outing from Houck. Won't read too much into it other than he looks like he can help them whether it's as a starter or a high leverage reliever. He's a guy who can definitely fit on the next seriously contending team (although if Manfred succeeds with his plan to put virtually every team in the playoffs, who knows what a seriously contending team is anyways?) I won't go crazy over two strong starts. I do remember Vaughn Eshelman's first two starts and there's a kid in 1999 who debuted with two great starts, got hurt, and never pitched again, and right now his name escapes my memory. Others older than me remember Billy Rohr's first two starts. That said, I'm willing to go out on a ledge and say that Houck will last longer than all of these guys and go on to have a nice Justin Masterson type career, whether it's in the rotation or the pen because he really does have good stuff. Well, miracles of miracles, the Red Sox finally beat the Yankees. So today that. Tomorrow Covid-19 gets eradicated. Given where the Sox are, I'd be quite alright with that being the final victory of this oh so lovely season. Twenty in '20 sounds like a nice round number. Let's hope to get that 2nd pick in the draft (with Dalbec hitting bombs, and our future utility guys hitting well in losses if that makes everybody feel better). Of course if they did, I don't trust Manfred to let that stick. Juan Pena I think? I believe that’s the dude who pitched twice and got hurt Edit: just confirmed it was him. Got hit in the elbow with a liner in practice. Torn MCL in his arm.
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Post by johnsilver52 on Sept 20, 2020 19:29:04 GMT -5
Could have been Houck never really could get his arm "loose" a reason his velo wasn't up there today. Anyone remember a cold night in April.. 2? 3? years ago when Sale was sitting 90-91 all game? Sure, it was cold then and not a late September game, but still sometimes it can be a challenge to get that arm loose and keep it that way. Believe Houck himself may have an issue perhaps sometimes a guess. He said so it seems in that interview by explaining never had his best fastball. It's pretty much got to be that, or some kind of injury/fatigue.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Sept 20, 2020 19:45:45 GMT -5
He also alluded to times in the past when his 4 seamer lost velocity he'd go to his sinker which had particularly good movement tonight. This apparently is not something at all new to him, he's just learned to adjust when it happens.
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Post by manfred on Sept 20, 2020 20:04:51 GMT -5
The outfield celebration with Chavis and Puello is just wrong. No Benny, no Mookie, and you have to come up with a new one. Add: heck, I’ll even go no Benny no Verdugo. At least that is the real outfield now. But, no, not these guys. Nope. It's haaaappening.... Eaaaasssyyyyy!!
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Sept 20, 2020 20:57:03 GMT -5
Sometimes you wake up and your arm isn’t live, you just have to adjust and get through. I feel like that was me 1/2 the time I pitched in high school
It’s great that he already knows how to pitch when his velocity isn’t there
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Post by foreverred9 on Sept 20, 2020 20:59:42 GMT -5
Juan Pena I think? I believe that’s the dude who pitched twice and got hurt Edit: just confirmed it was him. Got hit in the elbow with a liner in practice. Torn MCL in his arm. Career 0.69 ERA MLB pitcher. I was looking back trying to figure out what happened to him in 1999 (seems like a shoulder issue, the elbow injury was in ST 2000) and came across this article: www.baseballprospectus.com/news/article/510/the-daily-prospectus-juan-pena/He averaged 7.1 IP per game in Low-A. It's amazing how far the teams have evolved in the past 25 years around pitcher usage.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Sept 20, 2020 21:32:42 GMT -5
eric might be onto something with Chavis I thought after the first homer, I need to re-run the splits with and without a day off preceding.
The thing is, if Chavis is your platoon partner for Benintendi, you can make sure he always plays a few games in a row by giving first Arroyo, then Dalbec a day off.
Or, if he is the nominal starting 2B but also Benintendi's platoon partner, plus occasionally spelling Dalbec at 1B vs. RHP, that gives Arroyo something like 60 to 65 starts at 2B, even if no one ever gets hurt. But he would also play whenever Devers, Xander, Chavis, or JDM was hurt or needed a day off.
In the latter scenario, the 4th OFer is primarily a guy who can defend in CF and RF, and the bat is less important.
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Post by Canseco on Sept 20, 2020 21:46:57 GMT -5
eric might be onto something with Chavis I thought after the first homer, I need to re-run the splits with and without a day off preceding.
The thing is, if Chavis is your platoon partner for Benintendi, you can make sure he always plays a few games in a row by giving first Arroyo, then Dalbec a day off.
Or, if he is the nominal starting 2B but also Benintendi's platoon partner, plus occasionally spelling Dalbec at 1B vs. RHP, that gives Arroyo something like 60 to 65 starts at 2B, even if no one ever gets hurt. But he would also play whenever Devers, Xander, Chavis, or JDM was hurt or needed a day off.
In the latter scenario, the 4th OFer is primarily a guy who can defend in CF and RF, and the bat is less important.
I missed your post about Chavis, eric. Did the numbers suggest he's better or worse with days off? Thanks.
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Post by manfred on Sept 20, 2020 22:01:15 GMT -5
eric might be onto something with Chavis I thought after the first homer, I need to re-run the splits with and without a day off preceding.
The thing is, if Chavis is your platoon partner for Benintendi, you can make sure he always plays a few games in a row by giving first Arroyo, then Dalbec a day off.
Or, if he is the nominal starting 2B but also Benintendi's platoon partner, plus occasionally spelling Dalbec at 1B vs. RHP, that gives Arroyo something like 60 to 65 starts at 2B, even if no one ever gets hurt. But he would also play whenever Devers, Xander, Chavis, or JDM was hurt or needed a day off.
In the latter scenario, the 4th OFer is primarily a guy who can defend in CF and RF, and the bat is less important.
Do you think Benny is a platoon player? Or are you just trying to work everyone in? I don’t know the numbers, so I’m asking seriously.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Sept 20, 2020 22:12:04 GMT -5
I thought after the first homer, I need to re-run the splits with and without a day off preceding. The thing is, if Chavis is your platoon partner for Benintendi, you can make sure he always plays a few games in a row by giving first Arroyo, then Dalbec a day off. Or, if he is the nominal starting 2B but also Benintendi's platoon partner, plus occasionally spelling Dalbec at 1B vs. RHP, that gives Arroyo something like 60 to 65 starts at 2B, even if no one ever gets hurt. But he would also play whenever Devers, Xander, Chavis, or JDM was hurt or needed a day off. In the latter scenario, the 4th OFer is primarily a guy who can defend in CF and RF, and the bat is less important.
I missed your post about Chavis, eric. Did the numbers suggest he's better or worse with days off? Thanks. Considerably worse after a day off.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 20, 2020 22:43:41 GMT -5
Impressive outing from Houck. Won't read too much into it other than he looks like he can help them whether it's as a starter or a high leverage reliever. He's a guy who can definitely fit on the next seriously contending team (although if Manfred succeeds with his plan to put virtually every team in the playoffs, who knows what a seriously contending team is anyways?) I won't go crazy over two strong starts. I do remember Vaughn Eshelman's first two starts and there's a kid in 1999 who debuted with two great starts, got hurt, and never pitched again, and right now his name escapes my memory. Others older than me remember Billy Rohr's first two starts. That said, I'm willing to go out on a ledge and say that Houck will last longer than all of these guys and go on to have a nice Justin Masterson type career, whether it's in the rotation or the pen because he really does have good stuff. Well, miracles of miracles, the Red Sox finally beat the Yankees. So today that. Tomorrow Covid-19 gets eradicated. Given where the Sox are, I'd be quite alright with that being the final victory of this oh so lovely season. Twenty in '20 sounds like a nice round number. Let's hope to get that 2nd pick in the draft (with Dalbec hitting bombs, and our future utility guys hitting well in losses if that makes everybody feel better). Of course if they did, I don't trust Manfred to let that stick. Juan Pena I think? I believe that’s the dude who pitched twice and got hurt Edit: just confirmed it was him. Got hit in the elbow with a liner in practice. Torn MCL in his arm. Yes!!! Thank you. That's who I was thinking about. I was about to look up his name and got sidetracked.
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Post by sarasoxer on Sept 20, 2020 22:43:56 GMT -5
Only in Yankee-Land can a guy who is barely four feet tall be proclaimed as "the next Pedro." Well that is an effort to personally demean via ad hominem. Pedro and Garcia are about the same size. Pedro threw harder.
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