SoxProspects News
|
|
|
|
Legal
Forum Ground Rules
The views expressed by the members of this Forum do not necessarily reflect the views of SoxProspects, LLC.
© 2003-2024 SoxProspects, LLC
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Home | Search | My Profile | Messages | Members | Help |
Welcome Guest. Please Login or Register.
2021 Manager Search (Cora Returns)
|
Post by manfred on Sept 28, 2020 19:33:37 GMT -5
There is another moral issue here that's so basic I overlooked it.
Someone has been accused of bad behavior, and there is a solid suggestion that they have been made the scapegoat.
And you're not asking them for their side of the story?
And you're Jewish? Seriously?
No, that's not what's happening.
But they likely know the full story from when they fired him. It could be they don’t want to hire him but don’t want to kill his career by saying even something as provocative as “knowing what we know, we’re not considering him,” which might, indeed, be more damning that even intended. I guess what this all indicates is Bloom can’t say anything — or NOT say anything — without conclusions being drawn. And yet only he knows. So.... we wait. And likely speculate wildly.
|
|
|
Post by grandsalami on Sept 28, 2020 19:37:11 GMT -5
Here is how we will know it’s Cora.
We get towards the WS and they have not hired a coach yet. Since they can’t really talk to him until his suspension is over.
|
|
|
Post by kevfc89 on Sept 28, 2020 19:42:08 GMT -5
Old friend Joe Kelly from a podcast he did earlier this year:
"So what happened is you get people to snitch and become a rat, and the people who could afford to lose money get immunity," Kelly added. "The people who could afford to get their names tainted get immunity. I am very passionate about this because I played for a manager whose name is Alex Cora and this guy lost his job. … All this goes down, everything goes down on Alex Cora. Which if people knew the real story, (they) would actually hate the players even more. This guy had to go back to Puerto Rico where he’s from. His daughter is taken out of junior high from American schools because she’s getting verbally abused saying ‘Hey your dad’s a cheater’ etc.
…you get to blast people, you can make stuff up, you don’t have to make stuff up, you tell the truth and then the people that take the fall are the people that don’t deserve to take the fall."
|
|
ericmvan
Veteran
Supposed to be working on something more important
Posts: 8,911
|
Post by ericmvan on Sept 28, 2020 21:20:05 GMT -5
There is another moral issue here that's so basic I overlooked it.
Someone has been accused of bad behavior, and there is a solid suggestion that they have been made the scapegoat.
And you're not asking them for their side of the story?
And you're Jewish? Seriously?
No, that's not what's happening.
But they likely know the full story from when they fired him. It could be they don’t want to hire him but don’t want to kill his career by saying even something as provocative as “knowing what we know, we’re not considering him,” which might, indeed, be more damning that even intended. I guess what this all indicates is Bloom can’t say anything — or NOT say anything — without conclusions being drawn. And yet only he knows. So.... we wait. And likely speculate wildly. They had to fire him when the report came out, and it looked terrible. That was very swift and utterly predictable.
If they even talked to him to get his side of the story, and that they had met with him got known by the media, that's a PA nightmare.
So, no, it's actually quite clear that the exact opposite of your claim is the case.
And Bloom is being straight. He's saying he hasn't talked to Cora and won't talk to the media until he has. And from that we can conclude that no decision has been made, because he would have already talked to Cora if it had been.
And that's a non-conclusion conclusion. I don't recall seeing "Report: Biden still has not chosen VP" stories. That's what the actual news (or lack of it) here is.
|
|
|
Post by johnsilver52 on Sept 28, 2020 21:21:29 GMT -5
Old friend Joe Kelly from a podcast he did earlier this year: "So what happened is you get people to snitch and become a rat, and the people who could afford to lose money get immunity," Kelly added. "The people who could afford to get their names tainted get immunity. I am very passionate about this because I played for a manager whose name is Alex Cora and this guy lost his job. … All this goes down, everything goes down on Alex Cora. Which if people knew the real story, (they) would actually hate the players even more. This guy had to go back to Puerto Rico where he’s from. His daughter is taken out of junior high from American schools because she’s getting verbally abused saying ‘Hey your dad’s a cheater’ etc. …you get to blast people, you can make stuff up, you don’t have to make stuff up, you tell the truth and then the people that take the fall are the people that don’t deserve to take the fall." Dunno how missed this Kelly article, unless was behind some paywall wasn't subscribing to and was Athletic until about 1 month ago. Kelly comes out with more intelligent statements than most other ball players and this 1, as most where he's not joking around is true in real life and most likely in the sheltered sports world also. Don't hardly ever see key personnel, or flunkies of a company take the fall when something goes wrong, but the manager, or the assistants, even if they were forced to hire unqualified personnel to begin with. Time tested the manager/assistant should take the fall, not the untrainable moron making the mistakes. In baseball, it's the no MLBPA union protected, low salaried and easily replaced manager/coach that's the fall guy and MLB can frame the narrative that way, not the more useful player, protected by some union and making millions they might not be able to get out of if rightfully "fired" for doing the actual cheating. People fall for this is what gets me. The narrative that's not hard to see thru. Hasn't anyone been in ownership/manager position before and witnessed how corporations operate?
|
|
|
Post by alexcorahomevideo on Sept 29, 2020 5:57:16 GMT -5
There's Alex Cora and then there's the wrong choice. He is a proven winner in the league. Yes he was invovled with the Astros scandal but its slowly coming to light that there are a couple of teams not completely innocent of the same stuff Houston was doing but just on a lesser scale. Two of them, Boston and New York would be crazy not to hire Cora. Yes, if I was the Yankees I'd sack Boone for Cora in a heartbeat. That's also my fear about this whole thing. Bloom hiring some random analytics coach from Tampa who could be Alex Cora in a couple of years while the Yankees actually hire Alex Cora.
|
|
|
Post by alexcorahomevideo on Sept 29, 2020 6:04:35 GMT -5
Is signing Cora cheating? What a terrible argument. Listen, whatever. If you don’t care, that’s you. Personally, I see no reason to rush out and sign a guy who cheated (was it with two teams?). If the argument is “but he won,” then winning is all that matters. I don’t think it is. As someone who was a kid when the ball went through Buckners legs...yes it does. As someone who has followed Baseball his entire life the game is filled with cheaters. Past or present, take your pick. If you're going to allow players from the Sox Yankees and Astros to still play then Cora deserves another chance.
|
|
|
Post by philsbosoxfan on Sept 29, 2020 6:27:51 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by manfred on Sept 29, 2020 8:29:37 GMT -5
Listen, whatever. If you don’t care, that’s you. Personally, I see no reason to rush out and sign a guy who cheated (was it with two teams?). If the argument is “but he won,” then winning is all that matters. I don’t think it is. As someone who was a kid when the ball went through Buckners legs...yes it does. As someone who has followed Baseball his entire life the game is filled with cheaters. Past or present, take your pick. If you're going to allow players from the Sox Yankees and Astros to still play then Cora deserves another chance. I was, too, ugly crying and all. I think the cynicism of saying everyone does it so what do I care is sad. I have always believed one behaves with honor for one’s own sake, regardless of what others are doing. I would not feel like a winner if I cheated to win.
|
|
shagworthy
Veteran
My neckbeard game is on point.
Posts: 1,483
|
Post by shagworthy on Sept 29, 2020 9:21:50 GMT -5
As someone who was a kid when the ball went through Buckners legs...yes it does. As someone who has followed Baseball his entire life the game is filled with cheaters. Past or present, take your pick. If you're going to allow players from the Sox Yankees and Astros to still play then Cora deserves another chance. I was, too, ugly crying and all. I think the cynicism of saying everyone does it so what do I care is sad. I have always believed one behaves with honor for one’s own sake, regardless of what others are doing. I would not feel like a winner if I cheated to win. I was in the 3rd Grade, I stayed home from school after that game. It felt like a family member died that night(Buckner). I'm really on the fence with Cora. I believe in second chances, and I do believe he was scapegoated more because he was no longer on the club. That being said, as great of a guy as he seems to be, and as talented as he is, I'm not sure I want the headache or distraction of answering the questions he's going to have to answer for the next 162 games (assuming they play the full year next year). I almost want a clean break from all of the coaching staff, but I would like someone with similar charisma at the helm because as nice a guy as RR is/was, you have to admit his press conferences were like listening to an AP Lecture on Speculative Economic Theory.
|
|
|
Post by manfred on Sept 29, 2020 9:27:47 GMT -5
When people say he was scapegoated, do they mean he was not guilty but took the fall? Or was guilty but so were others? Because I have never gotten the impression he was some innocent. If he had nothing ti do with it and people made him a patsy, there is a large conspiracy afoot. And if he was guilty, the guilt of others has no bearing.
|
|
|
Post by Canseco on Sept 29, 2020 9:33:31 GMT -5
Cora would be the best hire, obviously, but it just doesn’t sit well. He took the fall for a lot of people, but that doesn’t change an organized effort to cheat the game of baseball. Chaim, sadly, needs to look elsewhere.
|
|
|
Post by Chris Hatfield on Sept 29, 2020 9:37:12 GMT -5
Speaking only for myself, I said he was made a scapegoat in the sense the players basically said he came up with it and was this ringleader/mastermind behind the whole thing. I'm skeptical of that based on what I've seen and heard afterwards, and that's what Kelly seems to be addressing in his comments.
He certainly enabled it though. Not trying to say he's without blame.
|
|
shagworthy
Veteran
My neckbeard game is on point.
Posts: 1,483
|
Post by shagworthy on Sept 29, 2020 9:38:56 GMT -5
When people say he was scapegoated, do they mean he was not guilty but took the fall? Or was guilty but so were others? Because I have never gotten the impression he was some innocent. If he had nothing ti do with it and people made him a patsy, there is a large conspiracy afoot. And if he was guilty, the guilt of others has no bearing. When I'm saying it, I'm not absolving him of guilt. But the way the report was laid out, it was clear the players who got immunity went out of their way to declare him the main culprit and distance themselves from the activity. Do I think he participated? Yes. But do I think he was the evil mastermind behind the whole plan? No. That's where my head is at on the subject. Because the benefactors couldn't be punished appropriately someone had to be the fall guy, and in an attempt to save their own in house guys it was way too convenient that Cora now a rival manager was made the face of it and somehow Hinch was a helpless leader in his own clubhouse.
|
|
|
Post by unitspin on Sept 29, 2020 9:50:38 GMT -5
Cora might not have created it down in Houston but he spearheaded it Boston. So did he get scapegoated? Not a chance he was the ringleader in Boston. If he is brought back it is an awful look. Its funny though the same ppl on this board who wanted pillar and brasier gone are the same that are preaching for a second chance for Cora. He does not deserve it in my opinion, if he is brought back all of baseball will not be forgiving. Expect alot of beamed players and your not getting any calls from the umpires. Let's hire the next coach for the job there alot of quality ppl out there that deserve their first chance at the gig.
|
|
|
Post by Chris Hatfield on Sept 29, 2020 10:12:33 GMT -5
Expect alot of beamed players and your not getting any calls from the umpires. Not wanting them to hire Cora is obviously fine, but this is just silly.
|
|
|
Post by manfred on Sept 29, 2020 10:15:29 GMT -5
To my mind, Cora seemed like a good players’ manager, perhaps an unusually good one. But hardly a uniquely good one. Somewhere in this nation of 300,000,000 there is a person who has not cheated and would also do a good job.
|
|
|
Post by splendidsplinter on Sept 29, 2020 10:54:58 GMT -5
Watching Cora with the players in Spring training he seems to have a real aura about him. You can feel the energy go up and the respect for him when he enters the field. He made some mistakes. He manned up, accepted the responsibility and didn’t throw anybody under the bus. He knows the club well. Is a proven leader, and World Series champion. He deserves another chance and the Red Sox should hire him this year.
|
|
|
Post by patford on Sept 29, 2020 11:39:17 GMT -5
To my mind, Cora seemed like a good players’ manager, perhaps an unusually good one. But hardly a uniquely good one. Somewhere in this nation of 300,000,000 there is a person who has not cheated and would also do a good job. So just to be clear. You condemn the entire 2018 Red Sox team including Roenicke and Betts ?
|
|
|
Post by manfred on Sept 29, 2020 11:42:57 GMT -5
To my mind, Cora seemed like a good players’ manager, perhaps an unusually good one. But hardly a uniquely good one. Somewhere in this nation of 300,000,000 there is a person who has not cheated and would also do a good job. So just to be clear. You condemn the entire 2018 Red Sox team including Roenicke and Betts ? I don’t know the full story, but if everyone cheated, yes. If they won the WS by systematically cheating, I don’t want it.
|
|
|
Post by jerrygarciaparra on Sept 29, 2020 11:44:09 GMT -5
From way out in space. Is there a chance Bloom would have the balls to ask Tampa for access to Kevin Cash. His familiarity with him has to be worth something.
We know it would entail draft pick compensation, but that might not be a deal killer and Tampa may even want that in return.
|
|
|
Post by unitspin on Sept 29, 2020 13:48:59 GMT -5
Expect alot of beamed players and your not getting any calls from the umpires. Not wanting them to hire Cora is obviously fine, but this is just silly. Ya bcs after Houston fired their manager everything was peachy. Not one of their guys got beamed. Thinking it will not happen is silly or delusional.
|
|
|
Post by grandsalami on Oct 12, 2020 10:16:35 GMT -5
All signs point to Cora.
|
|
|
Post by Oregon Norm on Oct 12, 2020 10:42:36 GMT -5
Not wanting them to hire Cora is obviously fine, but this is just silly. Ya bcs after Houston fired their manager everything was peachy. Not one of their guys got beamed. Thinking it will not happen is silly or delusional. You can stop the name-calling. You're suggesting that the umpires are in on some sort of broad conspiracy. Some of us don't agree
|
|
|
Post by geostorm on Oct 12, 2020 11:54:05 GMT -5
|
|
|