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Post by dirtdog on Sept 30, 2020 23:23:12 GMT -5
I was thinking of the possibility of drafting Lawlar and imagined an infield that had Downs/Yorke, Lawlar, Casas, and Devers. Just seemed cool in my mind. Xander?
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Post by agastonguay13 on Oct 1, 2020 7:12:41 GMT -5
I was thinking of the possibility of drafting Lawlar and imagined an infield that had Downs/Yorke, Lawlar, Casas, and Devers. Just seemed cool in my mind. Xander? I mean, Lawlar is probably 4ish years away after being drafted out of High School in 2021, and I think Bogaerts only has 5 left on his deal right now, so that scenario seems like it could be plausible.
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Post by tyler3 on Oct 1, 2020 9:02:37 GMT -5
I mean, Lawlar is probably 4ish years away after being drafted out of High School in 2021, and I think Bogaerts only has 5 left on his deal right now, so that scenario seems like it could be plausible. There has been talk of Xander using his opt out after the SS market is reset. We don’t really have a plus prospect at SS (true SS) behind him. Maybe Matthew Lugo takes up that mantle. The above infield line up fantasy was like three years down the road if everyone progressed perfectly.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Oct 1, 2020 9:06:16 GMT -5
I mean, Lawlar is probably 4ish years away after being drafted out of High School in 2021, and I think Bogaerts only has 5 left on his deal right now, so that scenario seems like it could be plausible. There has been talk of Xander using his opt out after the SS market is reset. We don’t really have a plus prospect at SS (true SS) behind him. Maybe Matthew Lugo takes up that mantle. The above infield line up fantasy was like three years down the road if everyone progressed perfectly. Disagree on that part. The only reason Downs will be a second baseman is Xander.
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Post by tyler3 on Oct 1, 2020 9:19:03 GMT -5
Really. I think if Downs is a legit SS then that is awesome. I’ve read some the publications saying he’s a better fit at second but the dodgers had him at SS for a while and I saw some nice plays at the alternate site. I think that we be a question I would ask Ian or Chris about. If he’s a legit big league SS that’s great for depth.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Oct 1, 2020 9:34:36 GMT -5
Really. I think if Downs is a legit SS then that is awesome. I’ve read some the publications saying he’s a better fit at second but the dodgers had him at SS for a while and I saw some nice plays at the alternate site. I think that we be a question I would ask Ian or Chris about. If he’s a legit big league SS that’s great for depth. Keith Law has him as a shortstop but being honest I think Law is too high on him in general. There were three players who were on the defensive side constantly at the alt. site. Downs, Duran and Wong. Crabbe spent most of his time working with Downs who played more defense that batting. They were pretty clearly working on his defense. Rough estimate, 75% at SS 25% at second base. He's pretty clearly a lot rangier than Chatham at either position but he's still young. I see him as a future plus defender at either place. I saw a few nice deep plays from deep in the the hole which makes me question our arm evaluations. Not a plus arm but a range and arm combo that should work.
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Post by tyler3 on Oct 1, 2020 9:45:20 GMT -5
Ha we got booted:) anyway thanks for the observations. Will be fun to see how it shakes out. Nice to see where Lugo is after this mystery year as well.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Oct 1, 2020 9:56:50 GMT -5
I like Lugo a lot more than our first pick Camron Cannon but he will need to get in a year at full season ball before we really have a feel.
On Downs I think he's a good prospect but I don't see him as Gleyber Torres good. I think that if the infield was Casas, Downs, Xander & Devers, Downs would be the least valuable.
The player I am most "intrigued" with is Ceddanne Rafaela. Based on where Speier ranked him last year and on his rapid rise timeline, someone in the front office must really like him. Most likely Romero who was the most visible front office guy at the alt site and the only one on the field.
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Post by tyler3 on Oct 1, 2020 10:55:23 GMT -5
Man never heard of him thanks
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Oct 1, 2020 10:58:40 GMT -5
I've never seen him play. I was hoping to see him at Greenville on MiLB.TV at some point this year. Oh well.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Oct 1, 2020 11:10:42 GMT -5
LOL, wayback machine time.
Long ago, before MiLB.TV, some teams streamed games live from local stations. I remember watching Ryan Westmoreland at Lowell that way. The (Brewster Whitecaps ?) a Cape Cod League team also broadcast games, mostly just video, no audio. I remember watching Ranaudo who was a draft and follow that way. Greenville also pretty much always had Ed Jensen, RIP, broadcasting radio games.
ADD: I also remember an email conversation I had with Eric Jarinko who is now the Greenville Drive GM on why you shouldn't count on the listed heights and weights of players (they don't actually measure them, the players fill out a data card). He told me a funny story about a locker room bet with Pedroia who was there at the time. He said Pedroia is less than 5' 8" which is Jarinko's height. Pedroia was listed as 5' 9".
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Oct 1, 2020 11:25:11 GMT -5
I like Lugo a lot more than our first pick Camron Cannon but he will need to get in a year at full season ball before we really have a feel. On Downs I think he's a good prospect but I don't see him as Gleyber Torres good. I think that if the infield was Casas, Downs, Xander & Devers, Downs would be the least valuable. The player I am most "intrigued" with is Ceddanne Rafaela. Based on where Speier ranked him last year and on his rapid rise timeline, someone in the front office must really like him. Most likely Romero who was the most visible front office guy at the alt site and the only one on the field. FWIW, that weird midseason push of Rafaela was a bit of an anomaly - he was much lower in Alex's end-of-season list. My guess is a source or two pushed him and then when he did more research for the Handbook, the general perception was lower. Don't sleep on Brainer Bonaci, imo. He seems to have a bit more helium behind him than Rafaela. He's a guy I really want to get eyes on... someday... when that's a thing we can do...
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Oct 1, 2020 11:30:51 GMT -5
I like Lugo a lot more than our first pick Camron Cannon but he will need to get in a year at full season ball before we really have a feel. On Downs I think he's a good prospect but I don't see him as Gleyber Torres good. I think that if the infield was Casas, Downs, Xander & Devers, Downs would be the least valuable. The player I am most "intrigued" with is Ceddanne Rafaela. Based on where Speier ranked him last year and on his rapid rise timeline, someone in the front office must really like him. Most likely Romero who was the most visible front office guy at the alt site and the only one on the field. FWIW, that weird midseason push of Rafaela was a bit of an anomaly - he was much lower in Alex's end-of-season list. My guess is a source or two pushed him and then when he did more research for the Handbook, the general perception was lower. Don't sleep on Brainer Bonaci, imo. He seems to have a bit more helium behind him than Rafaela. He's a guy I really want to get eyes on... someday... when that's a thing we can do... Bonaci too for me. Ceddanne did make a rapid rise though from DSL to Lowell in one year is pretty impressive. I would almost have to think that came from Romero since he was still in the DSL at the time.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Oct 1, 2020 11:46:48 GMT -5
At that age, it's pretty much a crapshoot. Look at Antoni Flores. That could be interesting, all three have a shot at Greenville next year. I am guessing I will mostly watch the Drive next year, I almost never watch AAA.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Oct 1, 2020 12:13:09 GMT -5
FWIW, that weird midseason push of Rafaela was a bit of an anomaly - he was much lower in Alex's end-of-season list. My guess is a source or two pushed him and then when he did more research for the Handbook, the general perception was lower. Don't sleep on Brainer Bonaci, imo. He seems to have a bit more helium behind him than Rafaela. He's a guy I really want to get eyes on... someday... when that's a thing we can do... Bonaci too for me. Ceddanne did make a rapid rise though from DSL to Lowell in one year is pretty impressive. I would almost have to think that came from Romero since he was still in the DSL at the time. I think you may be mistaken on Rafaela's timeline. He was in the DSL in 2018. Last year he spent almost the whole year in the GCL, then got a three-game (plus a few postseason games) cup of coffee in Lowell when they had their usual set of call-ups after the GCL season ended. That's a pretty normal path. Plus he wasn't in the DSL at the time we're talking about.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Oct 1, 2020 19:25:25 GMT -5
Hmm, you are right. Not sure why I was thinking that. Bonaci it is.
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nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,700
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Post by nomar on Oct 2, 2020 1:20:41 GMT -5
I like Lugo a lot more than our first pick Camron Cannon but he will need to get in a year at full season ball before we really have a feel. On Downs I think he's a good prospect but I don't see him as Gleyber Torres good. I think that if the infield was Casas, Downs, Xander & Devers, Downs would be the least valuable. The player I am most "intrigued" with is Ceddanne Rafaela. Based on where Speier ranked him last year and on his rapid rise timeline, someone in the front office must really like him. Most likely Romero who was the most visible front office guy at the alt site and the only one on the field. Lugo and (especially) Cannon barely project as major leaguers. IMO the odds are that our future SS isn’t even in the system right now.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Oct 2, 2020 3:14:26 GMT -5
Odds are but you could pretty much make that case for any low A player. It's a filter, survival of the fittest thing but you don't get prospects at the top without there having been prospects at the bottom.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Oct 3, 2020 17:37:51 GMT -5
Really. I think if Downs is a legit SS then that is awesome. I’ve read some the publications saying he’s a better fit at second but the dodgers had him at SS for a while and I saw some nice plays at the alternate site. I think that we be a question I would ask Ian or Chris about. If he’s a legit big league SS that’s great for depth. Keith Law has him as a shortstop but being honest I think Law is too high on him in general. There were three players who were on the defensive side constantly at the alt. site. Downs, Duran and Wong. Crabbe spent most of his time working with Downs who played more defense that batting. They were pretty clearly working on his defense. Rough estimate, 75% at SS 25% at second base. He's pretty clearly a lot rangier than Chatham at either position but he's still young. I see him as a future plus defender at either place. I saw a few nice deep plays from deep in the the hole which makes me question our arm evaluations. Not a plus arm but a range and arm combo that should work. McMillon: "Jeter’s kind of interesting. We were introduced to him in Spring Training 1. We could see glimpses of defense and offense. I would say he did better offensively in the first spring training. I think people were thinking about him potentially being a second baseman, everyday, for the Red Sox. I think the strides he made defensively are going to sway some of those questions people had.
"He made tremendous strides defensively. There are some things he needs to work on, like his makeup and his confidence and things like that. I think those issues affected how he did offensively. As far as Jeter, I see tremendous upside. His track record of offensive performance indicates that at 7:05, when the lights are on, he shows up at the plate. I’m hopeful his track record offensively meshes well with the strides he made defensively. If that happens, I think you’ve got a pretty good player. I don’t want to give a comp or anything, but I think he would more than hold his own based on what he did defensively and how much better and more consistent he got.
“I think he would be a better second baseman longterm, but I do believe he could play shortstop. He made some plays that were just unbelievable at shortstop. I personally would see him a better fit at second base if we were talking about 162 games. I think his athleticism, his skills, would be a little better at second base. But he’s still young. I don’t want it to seem like he can’t play shortstop. I think he could do a fine job over there. In my eyes, I see second base when I see him.” www.masslive.com/redsox/2020/10/boston-red-soxs-cupboard-of-young-talent-getting-full-again-how-jarren-duran-triston-casas-bryan-mata-and-some-dark-horses-impressed-at-alternate-site-chris-cotillo-mlb-notebook.htmlThere's better than a zero chance that Downs will be the SS and Xander the 2B. Note how that is worded.
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Post by wcsoxfan on Oct 3, 2020 17:59:03 GMT -5
Keith Law has him as a shortstop but being honest I think Law is too high on him in general. There were three players who were on the defensive side constantly at the alt. site. Downs, Duran and Wong. Crabbe spent most of his time working with Downs who played more defense that batting. They were pretty clearly working on his defense. Rough estimate, 75% at SS 25% at second base. He's pretty clearly a lot rangier than Chatham at either position but he's still young. I see him as a future plus defender at either place. I saw a few nice deep plays from deep in the the hole which makes me question our arm evaluations. Not a plus arm but a range and arm combo that should work. McMillon: "Jeter’s kind of interesting. We were introduced to him in Spring Training 1. We could see glimpses of defense and offense. I would say he did better offensively in the first spring training. I think people were thinking about him potentially being a second baseman, everyday, for the Red Sox. I think the strides he made defensively are going to sway some of those questions people had.
"He made tremendous strides defensively. There are some things he needs to work on, like his makeup and his confidence and things like that. I think those issues affected how he did offensively. As far as Jeter, I see tremendous upside. His track record of offensive performance indicates that at 7:05, when the lights are on, he shows up at the plate. I’m hopeful his track record offensively meshes well with the strides he made defensively. If that happens, I think you’ve got a pretty good player. I don’t want to give a comp or anything, but I think he would more than hold his own based on what he did defensively and how much better and more consistent he got.
“I think he would be a better second baseman longterm, but I do believe he could play shortstop. He made some plays that were just unbelievable at shortstop. I personally would see him a better fit at second base if we were talking about 162 games. I think his athleticism, his skills, would be a little better at second base. But he’s still young. I don’t want it to seem like he can’t play shortstop. I think he could do a fine job over there. In my eyes, I see second base when I see him.” www.masslive.com/redsox/2020/10/boston-red-soxs-cupboard-of-young-talent-getting-full-again-how-jarren-duran-triston-casas-bryan-mata-and-some-dark-horses-impressed-at-alternate-site-chris-cotillo-mlb-notebook.htmlThere's better than a zero chance that Downs will be the SS and Xander the 2B. Note how that is worded. Based upon the above endorsement it seems Downs may be a passable MLB shortstop, but not good enough defensively to stick there as a starter over a season. Xander is an MLB average defensive shortstop who hasn't played 2b and was horrible when he attempted to play 3B. (Some players, like Mookie, can jump into any situation and be a stud - Xander isn't one of those players) In the non-zero chance scenario you describe above, are you including Xander being 37 while Downs is still 31? Even then, I still think it's zero.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Oct 3, 2020 18:10:05 GMT -5
I think it's unlikely but as Xander slows down and based on their future talents, the question becomes which combo is better for the team, not which combo is a best fit for each player. I'm pretty sure that Downs will be better at either position than Xander. That's why I worded it as I did. I'm also not sold on McMillan's 162 game comment but do see him as a better fit at 2B but that isn't the total future question.
I also think Downs at any point in 2021 is unlikely.
ADD: Xander does get to any of the "unbelievable" defensive plays McMillan pointed out. DRS says Xander is a below average shortstop.
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Post by tyler3 on Oct 3, 2020 23:19:35 GMT -5
After all that’s been said above I kinda still get the feeling that we are still lacking a “true SS” that can hit in the system, at least right now. Which is why if the Red Sox picked Lawlar I’d have no problem with it (yes I understand BPA). It will interesting to see if someone from the draft or in the system becomes the clear front runner as Xander considers his opt out.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Oct 3, 2020 23:58:04 GMT -5
With baseball economics, I'm guessing pretty much nobody is going to opt out any time soon. We'll have Xander for the length of his contract which is a good thing.
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Post by rjp313jr on Oct 4, 2020 13:01:35 GMT -5
They should be taking the best player available, period, regardless of position.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Feb 19, 2021 18:01:11 GMT -5
Hmm, you are right. Not sure why I was thinking that. Bonaci it is. Learned something on the new episode of the podcast. It's "Bo-NAH-see." First name is something like "Bren-er".
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