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Post by umassgrad2005 on Oct 11, 2020 14:07:03 GMT -5
They don't need a shark, they need crazy smart people with long-term visions. They need to be able to read the owners and how they will react to the changes, like the current tax issues. Most importantly that need true leadership that has a plan and that plan needs to be embraced by the players.
That being said, good luck. Fixing baseball is like trying to fix a broken design. The system is broken, so it just makes everything ten times harder. They really need to fix the system, yet that can't happen.
The real blame for this mess if former commissioners not acting like every other sport and having a universal TV rights deal that is split equally. Then they made it worse by allowing teams to own the companies that show their games. Allowing teams like the Yankees and Red Sox to hide revenues.
Yet at the same time it's crazy hard to feel bad for the players either. They are still the top 1/10 of 1% of workers and get way more percentage of profits than any other workers. It just highlights the bad part about Unions, they will never stop fighting for workers. They will never get enough, until they basically bankrupt companies. Look at right now, owners taking massive losses and they players aren't.
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Post by blumj on Oct 11, 2020 15:43:26 GMT -5
There shouldn't still be teams in places where acting like they're trying by paying star players doesn't increase ticket sales and tv ratings Cincy is a small market but they figured out that there are enough Reds fans that it makes sense to pay players the 2020 season hurt that maybe 2021 will fix it.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Oct 11, 2020 16:39:59 GMT -5
I agree with all of that up to a point ... and that point is just before it all goes south and they realize what they're about to do. There is precedent for the sides agreeing on one or two things and extending everything else a year, to avert a strike. There's really no good argument for not trying that at least once. I honestly think it'll take more than a full year to work out a new deal that both sides can tolerate.
I hope so, but then again I never anticipated we'd have a season where we'd lose the World Series. It's like they skied to the edge of the cliff, look down, and said, ah the hell with it, we're going - and poof their went the 1994 Series. I thought that was a line they wouldn't want to cross, but under Selig, a guy who I honestly think does love baseball (I know you can dispute that), they let it happen. I really don't get the sense that Manfred truly loves the game, so I think he'd be willing to cross lines you wouldn't even imagine. Hopefully you're right and when they get to the line, they don't jump over it, but I don't know. I can see the MLB owners implementing the DH and pushing for expanded playoffs, reduced regular season schedule, and adding two more franchises through expansion (Las Vegas and Nashville?), with Tampa moving to Montreal? So they have some wiggle room for negotiations there, but I just don't think that Manfred sees it as a partnership with the players, which is something Selig was trying to do toward the last decade of his tenure when there was labor peace. And the players are certainly tired of ceding ground to the owners. I can see that stopping, even if they have to push Tony Clark aside and get a real shark to negotiate. I think your take on the 1994 psychology is in the ballparkpark. On both sides, it was, fuck it, this isn't a good idea, but how be could it be?
The thing is, if you had argued then that "if we do this, it'll take a dozen years before attendance returns to the present level," people would have spit out their beverage in laughter. But it did. Now that they've got that data point, and given the loss of revenue from COVID, I don't see any way that there's a work stoppage. Worst case is that both sides hold their noses and agree to a compromise for 1 year and continue trying to brainstorm a set of solutions that will be truly acceptable to everyone.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Oct 11, 2020 17:44:40 GMT -5
I can see the MLB owners implementing the DH and pushing for expanded playoffs, reduced regular season schedule, and adding two more franchises through expansion (Las Vegas and Nashville?), with Tampa moving to Montreal? Don't tempt me, Frodo! I have a spreadsheet with way too many expansion and re-alignment scenarios.
Montreal and somewhere in Virginia, North Carolina, or Tennessee are really obvious places to add a team.
The complications are Tampa Bay and (IMHO) Oakland. The A's are currently hoping to buy out the Alameda County's half of the stadium and site. There would be room to build a ballpark next door and then tear down the current one, as many teams have done. But I'm skeptical that there are enough people in the Bay Area to support two teams. There are actually other places in CA that seem better, from plain demographics.
Adding one in Las Vegas to the AL would give the league a 4th team in the West. In that scenario, you'd also move the Rockies to the AL (closet MLB city to Denver is KC, Minneapolis is 2nd, and Dallas is 4th) ... and maybe the Astros back to the NL so that you could add Montreal to the AL ... unless Tampa ends up there. I know I have some scenarios where Toronto moves to the NL, too.
And the Rays to Montreal is a tremendous idea. Giving the city a perennial contender would be reparations for the shaft they were given beginning in 1994. The Sox and Rays are already a rivalry and now they're a 5 hour drive away -- considerably closer than Baltimore. It's also a more attractive city to visit! It could be so successful that it might make sense to just bite the bullet on the Rays lease of their stadium, or negotiate some sort of settlement.
And I am not Googling the Tampa stadium situation for a refresher and update!
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Post by johnsilver52 on Oct 12, 2020 4:05:58 GMT -5
They don't need a shark, they need crazy smart people with long-term visions. They need to be able to read the owners and how they will react to the changes, like the current tax issues. Most importantly that need true leadership that has a plan and that plan needs to be embraced by the players. That being said, good luck. Fixing baseball is like trying to fix a broken design. The system is broken, so it just makes everything ten times harder. They really need to fix the system, yet that can't happen. The real blame for this mess if former commissioners not acting like every other sport and having a universal TV rights deal that is split equally. Then they made it worse by allowing teams to own the companies that show their games. Allowing teams like the Yankees and Red Sox to hide revenues. Yet at the same time it's crazy hard to feel bad for the players either. They are still the top 1/10 of 1% of workers and get way more percentage of profits than any other workers. It just highlights the bad part about Unions, they will never stop fighting for workers. They will never get enough, until they basically bankrupt companies. Look at right now, owners taking massive losses and they players aren't. Agree with much of this. Companies do not share profits among competitors must add as do MLB teams last few CBA's forced few teams to to keep some others above water and financially stable instead of bankrupt. Some of the owners may be looking at it as this alone is sharing some % of profits. Letting these less viable ones go bust.. Taking the jobs with them should be enough of a bargaining chip alone and save money by not having to share % of revenue, less jobs would save the game's owners on media rights right off the top and one of the unions gripes.. Team owned media sharing they want shared and some teams balk at for good reason to share. Onto Unions and what UMass mentioned.. All Unions IMO started off as great ideas and for the good of the worker. It's the always having to have something else to strive for that made them nuance they are today, same reason they are bloated and have offices.. Fully staffed..
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Post by grandsalami on Dec 2, 2020 21:13:42 GMT -5
So teams are just publicly admitting to tanking now?
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Post by grandsalami on Dec 2, 2020 21:31:37 GMT -5
Like why would any O’s fan spend a penny on the O’s Next season why the owners don’t give a crap about winning?
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Post by Oregon Norm on Dec 2, 2020 21:56:42 GMT -5
The pandemic had sent teams into NFL mode, discarding talent as if there's a hard cap. They may be betting they can bring him back at something cheaper than his arb rate, which stinks for Alberto.
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on May 14, 2021 9:40:07 GMT -5
www.mlbtraderumors.com/2021/05/mlbpa-grievance-mlb-500-million-60-game-season.htmlIn case anyone was worried that the good vibes from an on-time, healthy season and fans returning would last, the MLBPA is filing a grievance for $500M that MLB did not in good faith set up the league for as many games as possible in 2020. Some speculation is it's part of a negotiation ploy for CBA. Not feeling great about baseball 2022. Go for it this year!!!! The future is not guaranteed!!! (Also what a nightmare for development if prospects lose 2 years out of 3. Some guys would literally lose their whole career).
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Post by manfred on May 14, 2021 11:17:10 GMT -5
www.mlbtraderumors.com/2021/05/mlbpa-grievance-mlb-500-million-60-game-season.htmlIn case anyone was worried that the good vibes from an on-time, healthy season and fans returning would last, the MLBPA is filing a grievance for $500M that MLB did not in good faith set up the league for as many games as possible in 2020. Some speculation is it's part of a negotiation ploy for CBA. Not feeling great about baseball 2022. Go for it this year!!!! The future is not guaranteed!!! (Also what a nightmare for development if prospects lose 2 years out of 3. Some guys would literally lose their whole career). Hey, man, there is a reason there is a long tradition of carpe diem poetry and not trade-established-goods-for-the-distant-future poetry. Gather ye rosebuds, not trade your roses for a host of tulip bulbs!
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on May 14, 2021 13:32:06 GMT -5
www.mlbtraderumors.com/2021/05/mlbpa-grievance-mlb-500-million-60-game-season.htmlIn case anyone was worried that the good vibes from an on-time, healthy season and fans returning would last, the MLBPA is filing a grievance for $500M that MLB did not in good faith set up the league for as many games as possible in 2020. Some speculation is it's part of a negotiation ploy for CBA. Not feeling great about baseball 2022. Go for it this year!!!! The future is not guaranteed!!! (Also what a nightmare for development if prospects lose 2 years out of 3. Some guys would literally lose their whole career). Hey, man, there is a reason there is a long tradition of carpe diem poetry and not trade-established-goods-for-the-distant-future poetry. Gather ye rosebuds, not trade your roses for a host of tulip bulbs! YOLO "401K, make sure it's low risk Then get some real estate (How much?) 4.2% 30-year mortgage That's important, that's a great deal And if you can't afford it Don't forge it on your last bill Renting is for suckers right now A dependable savings And you'll retire with money in your account Beast"
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Post by Guidas on May 14, 2021 14:25:42 GMT -5
www.mlbtraderumors.com/2021/05/mlbpa-grievance-mlb-500-million-60-game-season.htmlIn case anyone was worried that the good vibes from an on-time, healthy season and fans returning would last, the MLBPA is filing a grievance for $500M that MLB did not in good faith set up the league for as many games as possible in 2020. Some speculation is it's part of a negotiation ploy for CBA. Not feeling great about baseball 2022. Go for it this year!!!! The future is not guaranteed!!! (Also what a nightmare for development if prospects lose 2 years out of 3. Some guys would literally lose their whole career). Also, the future is never guaranteed.
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Post by dyoungteach on May 14, 2021 14:38:05 GMT -5
www.mlbtraderumors.com/2021/05/mlbpa-grievance-mlb-500-million-60-game-season.htmlIn case anyone was worried that the good vibes from an on-time, healthy season and fans returning would last, the MLBPA is filing a grievance for $500M that MLB did not in good faith set up the league for as many games as possible in 2020. Some speculation is it's part of a negotiation ploy for CBA. Not feeling great about baseball 2022. Go for it this year!!!! The future is not guaranteed!!! (Also what a nightmare for development if prospects lose 2 years out of 3. Some guys would literally lose their whole career). I think. And someone can correct me and will if I’m wrong , but I THINK minor league baseball will still continue if there is a shutdown. Minor league players aren’t covered under the lockout or shutdown. I didn’t think And it’s both statement and question I guess. Does anyone know the exact answer to this? My way of saying development shouldn’t be affected at all accept for high minor league players who otherwise would be promoted
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Post by swingingbunt on May 14, 2021 18:38:47 GMT -5
www.mlbtraderumors.com/2021/05/mlbpa-grievance-mlb-500-million-60-game-season.htmlIn case anyone was worried that the good vibes from an on-time, healthy season and fans returning would last, the MLBPA is filing a grievance for $500M that MLB did not in good faith set up the league for as many games as possible in 2020. Some speculation is it's part of a negotiation ploy for CBA. Not feeling great about baseball 2022. Go for it this year!!!! The future is not guaranteed!!! (Also what a nightmare for development if prospects lose 2 years out of 3. Some guys would literally lose their whole career). I think. And someone can correct me and will if I’m wrong , but I THINK minor league baseball will still continue if there is a shutdown. Minor league players aren’t covered under the lockout or shutdown. I didn’t think And it’s both statement and question I guess. Does anyone know the exact answer to this? My way of saying development shouldn’t be affected at all accept for high minor league players who otherwise would be promoted Minor league salaries (amoung many other things that deal with the minors) are included in the CBA so I don't know why they wouldn't be included in a shutdown.
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Post by foreverred9 on May 14, 2021 18:50:52 GMT -5
Minor league players are not part of the union. The union only covers the players on the 40-man roster. www.mlbplayers.com/about
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Post by dyoungteach on May 14, 2021 20:10:14 GMT -5
Minor league players are not part of the union. The union only covers the players on the 40-man roster. www.mlbplayers.com/aboutThank you. That’s what I thought. It’s been so many years since the last “stupid” strike they had that shut down season, but I thought for sure my local minor league team still was playing then.
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Post by vermontsox1 on Aug 18, 2021 16:58:05 GMT -5
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Aug 18, 2021 17:01:56 GMT -5
Just impose a salary cap at this point, I’ve had enough with the competitive balance BS.
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Post by greenmonster on Aug 18, 2021 17:40:26 GMT -5
So there you have the basis for everything....they are getting under $180M
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Post by julyanmorley on Aug 18, 2021 17:54:29 GMT -5
That sounds like a deal that would cost the players a lot of money and handicap teams willing to spend a lot of money.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Aug 18, 2021 18:00:22 GMT -5
I'm sure John Henry is hating having an excuse to spend less.
If there's a lock out then this sport is just trying to die.
Oh, and very likely goodbye Xander and Devers. A lot of teams will be trying to spend money while the Red Sox will need to shed salary.
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Post by vermontsox1 on Aug 18, 2021 18:26:16 GMT -5
It's just the opening salvo by the MLB to an unfortunately bitter and lengthy negotiation that will go on this fall/winter. I wouldn't carve those numbers in stone at all. It would be absolutely insane to think the MLBPA would accept a luxury tax threshold that is essentially the same as the previous CBA given the increase in revenues for MLB teams, but MLB is obviously going to go in with a low ball offer and MLBPA will ask for the world.
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ematz1423
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Post by ematz1423 on Aug 18, 2021 19:07:15 GMT -5
I'm sure John Henry is hating having an excuse to spend less. If there's a lock out then this sport is just trying to die. Oh, and very likely goodbye Xander and Devers. A lot of teams will be trying to spend money while the Red Sox will need to shed salary. I doubt this 180 mil luxury tax even happens but even if it did why would the Red sox need to be shedding salary? They basically have Chris Sale signed long term and nobody else as or right now.
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Post by foreverred9 on Aug 18, 2021 21:08:00 GMT -5
It's just the opening salvo by the MLB to an unfortunately bitter and lengthy negotiation that will go on this fall/winter. I wouldn't carve those numbers in stone at all. It would be absolutely insane to think the MLBPA would accept a luxury tax threshold that is essentially the same as the previous CBA given the increase in revenues for MLB teams, but MLB is obviously going to go in with a low ball offer and MLBPA will ask for the world. Key word "opening salvo". Like any negotiation the MLB starts in NYC and the MLBPA starts in LA and they are walking to Kansas City, not flying. There's a long way to go before they get to an agreement in the middle. If I were the players, I'm more open to locking into a percentage of revenues. That ensures all parties are equally committed to growing the game. I know they hate that concept, but had they done so last time they would have made a ton of money.
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Post by Guidas on Aug 19, 2021 17:46:43 GMT -5
That sounds like a deal that would cost the players a lot of money and handicap teams willing to spend a lot of money. Exactly. This is just screwing the players, especially free agents. If the players union accepts this it will basically destroy them. Meanwhile MLB just received a huge infusion of money in new TV and streaming deals. It's almost like the owners want a shock collar to keep themselves from spending. The NFL adjusts its cap upward every year as revenues increase. Baseball should not penalize teams for trying to win or owners for using their resources to try to win. Either install a hard cap - which will mean a strike, and potentially have baseball lose their antitrust waiver (which should've been eliminated years ago) - or increase the luxury tax limit with overall revenues every year and let the teams figure out what to do. If anything, if they want to get rid of owner who are "cheating," they should get rid of the CBT and payments and free draft picks to low budget teams. If those billionaires don't want to spend and just want to use their teams as cash registers, then they should sell to billionaires who will spend.
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