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Post by Underwater Johnson on Mar 10, 2022 23:23:59 GMT -5
Boo. I wish they got rid of it altogether.
The average NL game features four ABs by pitchers, two by each starter, all early in the game. Whoop-de-doo -- the average game features about 70 total ABs.
If it bothers you so much, go get a beer when the pitcher comes up. Make a sandwich. Use the head.
Watching a pitcher bunt or leave his bat on his shoulder is more than made up for by the occasional homer or Rick Porcello doubling off of his old buddy Scherzer, not to mention the extra strategy involved as the game progresses. It's an abomination, Big Papi or no Big Papi.
Either way, it changes the calculus for a guy like Schwarber, I expect. Also makes JDM more tradeable. Just… interesting. Agreed. I can appreciate those things because reality is reality (and ideally, you can find interesting things about reality).
I just never liked it even though I'm a fan of a big-market AL team that almost always has a premium, full-time DH. I've always enjoyed the NL game more.
Some of the things we'll never see/hear again: A pitcher "helping his own cause." A pitchers' duel in which the starters both bat into the late innings because they're both dealing. A pitcher who everyone knows is a good hitter because he's got receipts vs big-league pitching.
Small ball. A proven pinch-hitter.
Real strategy.
And don't tell me that the other sports change their rules all the time, so why not baseball? It's because they needed to. Baseball was born fully formed and armed, like Athena out of Zeus's forehead. The NFL spent the first half of its existence as a single-wing snooze-fest. And they got so enamored of rules changes that now the smartest play call is to chuck the ball deep knowing that you're bound to get a pass interference call half the time. (I also love how people moan about how slow baseball is but they'll sit glued to 5 minutes of replays to see if a guy really caught a 5-yard pass without bobbling it.)
The NBA spent the first half of its existence with guys taking set shots and defenders coached to never leave their feet (until Bill Russell defied his college coach and showed him that he could change the game by swatting opponents shots toward his teammates). It has since turned into a nightly 48-minute 3-point shooting contest. Yawn.
The NHL is really smart about rules changes. The game is very much the same as it has ever been, but safer.
The bottom line is nobody ever seduced Susan Sarandon by listing all the great things about football or basketball. I wish people would just focus more on the things that make baseball great, rather than endlessly nit-picking about pitchers not being able to hit like first-basemen who can't field or the foibles of human umpires or the occasional bad pitcher who can't make up his mind.
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Post by incandenza on Mar 10, 2022 23:36:35 GMT -5
Either way, it changes the calculus for a guy like Schwarber, I expect. Also makes JDM more tradeable. Just… interesting. Agreed. I can appreciate those things because reality is reality (and ideally, you can find interesting things about reality).
I just never liked it even though I'm a fan of a big-market AL team that almost always has a premium, full-time DH. I've always enjoyed the NL game more.
Some of the things we'll never see/hear again: A pitcher "helping his own cause." A pitchers' duel in which the starters both bat into the late innings because they're both dealing. A pitcher who everyone knows is a good hitter because he's got receipts vs big-league pitching.
Small ball. A proven pinch-hitter.
Real strategy.
And don't tell me that the other sports change their rules all the time, so why not baseball? It's because they needed to. Baseball was born fully formed and armed, like Athena out of Zeus's forehead. The NFL spent the first half of its existence as a single-wing snooze-fest. And they got so enamored of rules changes that now the smartest play call is to chuck the ball deep knowing that you're bound to get a pass interference call half the time. (I also love how people moan about how slow baseball is but they'll sit glued to 5 minutes of replays to see if a guy really caught a 5-yard pass without bobbling it.)
The NBA spent the first half of its existence with guys taking set shots and defenders coached to never leave their feet (until Bill Russell defied his college coach and showed him that he could change the game by swatting opponents shots toward his teammates). It has since turned into a nightly 48-minute 3-point shooting contest. Yawn.
The NHL is really smart about rules changes. The game is very much the same as it has ever been, but safer.
The bottom line is nobody ever seduced Susan Sarandon by listing all the great things about football or basketball. I wish people would just focus more on the things that make baseball great, rather than endlessly nit-picking about pitchers not being able to hit like first-basemen who can't field or the foibles of human umpires or the occasional bad pitcher who can't make up his mind.
But your claim is that the game hasn't changed, has never needed to change, and doesn't need to change now? Then how to explain this much... change?
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Post by Oregon Norm on Mar 10, 2022 23:59:12 GMT -5
- Players in their 5 years remain indentured servants. I guess the Player's committee made up of established veterans figured younger players still need to earn their stripes too You know Marvin Miller and the union wanted that. It was seen as supply and demand. Less free agents each year, meant higher salaries. ...until big data blew up that logic. The owners are much more savvy about where the value is and many have adjusted their business models accordingly. I'm eager to read the final version of the new CBA, how it might be gamed - by both sides. A question I have is where the $ for early performance comes from. Haven't read anything about it.
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Post by keninten on Mar 11, 2022 0:24:41 GMT -5
Either way, it changes the calculus for a guy like Schwarber, I expect. Also makes JDM more tradeable. Just… interesting. Agreed. I can appreciate those things because reality is reality (and ideally, you can find interesting things about reality).
I just never liked it even though I'm a fan of a big-market AL team that almost always has a premium, full-time DH. I've always enjoyed the NL game more.
Some of the things we'll never see/hear again: A pitcher "helping his own cause." A pitchers' duel in which the starters both bat into the late innings because they're both dealing. A pitcher who everyone knows is a good hitter because he's got receipts vs big-league pitching.
Small ball. A proven pinch-hitter.
Real strategy.
And don't tell me that the other sports change their rules all the time, so why not baseball? It's because they needed to. Baseball was born fully formed and armed, like Athena out of Zeus's forehead. The NFL spent the first half of its existence as a single-wing snooze-fest. And they got so enamored of rules changes that now the smartest play call is to chuck the ball deep knowing that you're bound to get a pass interference call half the time. (I also love how people moan about how slow baseball is but they'll sit glued to 5 minutes of replays to see if a guy really caught a 5-yard pass without bobbling it.)
The NBA spent the first half of its existence with guys taking set shots and defenders coached to never leave their feet (until Bill Russell defied his college coach and showed him that he could change the game by swatting opponents shots toward his teammates). It has since turned into a nightly 48-minute 3-point shooting contest. Yawn.
The NHL is really smart about rules changes. The game is very much the same as it has ever been, but safer.
The bottom line is nobody ever seduced Susan Sarandon by listing all the great things about football or basketball. I wish people would just focus more on the things that make baseball great, rather than endlessly nit-picking about pitchers not being able to hit like first-basemen who can't field or the foibles of human umpires or the occasional bad pitcher who can't make up his mind.
Baseball had a walk rule that was 9 total pitches instead of 4 pitches outside the strikezone. We might actually go back to that. Used to be able to throw a spitball. Heck they couldn`t even throw overhand when it all started. What about the one-bounce rule? Raising or lowering the mound? I was against the DH when it started but I like watching a batter bat more than being able to make a sandwich or go to the head.
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Post by wcsoxfan on Mar 11, 2022 2:42:08 GMT -5
For the owners/industry, I agree that's short term. But for a player who averages 5.5 years for a career, it's quite long-term. I think that's how each side wins. If the players gain 2% (on the high-end imo, but too early to say) in year 1, but they end-up down by 1-2% by year 5, I think most of the players would be content with that. On the flip-side, the owners would be thrilled by it because the CBA ends with them better off than they are today. To illustrate what I mean: End CBA 2021: 47% (player's percentage of revenue) CBA 2022: 49% End CBA 2026: 45% CBA 2027: 47% End CBA 2031: 43% Over a 5-year period the players do well, but the owners end-up ahead by the end. The really sneaky part is, if the owners only reduce the end-CBA by 0.5%-1%, the players will end-up much better off over the 5-year period but the owners still come-out ahead. One more thing to note - I'm not even accounting for the uniform patches. If the owners make 10mil per team (this is about what the NBA makes on average) then they just added $300mil. To contrast, the players' big win for additional awards to the pre-arb pool was for a whopping $50mil. There is no way, an advertiser should pay the same to an MLB team as they pay a NBA team. The NBA has way more close ups, has more nationally televised games and has bigger stars. This is 3 years old, so the 11mil number is likely low. Also, there may be patches on the helmets as well.
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 11, 2022 6:46:46 GMT -5
NYY one of the four dissenting teams. How DELICIOUS would it be if Hal did not "Spend! Spend! Spend!" up to the limit? Or as spin will go: "We like our team and saw no reason to spend beyond (insert player names here)." This is a little confusing… owners voted 30-0 in favor… it was the “player reps” on those teams that voted against it. The Yankee organization was in favor of it - their player reps were not.
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Post by jimed14 on Mar 11, 2022 8:48:06 GMT -5
Best news of the CBA. No more automatic 17 wins for divisions with really bad teams.
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 11, 2022 8:59:41 GMT -5
Agreed. I can appreciate those things because reality is reality (and ideally, you can find interesting things about reality).
I just never liked it even though I'm a fan of a big-market AL team that almost always has a premium, full-time DH. I've always enjoyed the NL game more.
Some of the things we'll never see/hear again: A pitcher "helping his own cause." A pitchers' duel in which the starters both bat into the late innings because they're both dealing. A pitcher who everyone knows is a good hitter because he's got receipts vs big-league pitching.
Small ball. A proven pinch-hitter.
Real strategy.
And don't tell me that the other sports change their rules all the time, so why not baseball? It's because they needed to. Baseball was born fully formed and armed, like Athena out of Zeus's forehead. The NFL spent the first half of its existence as a single-wing snooze-fest. And they got so enamored of rules changes that now the smartest play call is to chuck the ball deep knowing that you're bound to get a pass interference call half the time. (I also love how people moan about how slow baseball is but they'll sit glued to 5 minutes of replays to see if a guy really caught a 5-yard pass without bobbling it.)
The NBA spent the first half of its existence with guys taking set shots and defenders coached to never leave their feet (until Bill Russell defied his college coach and showed him that he could change the game by swatting opponents shots toward his teammates). It has since turned into a nightly 48-minute 3-point shooting contest. Yawn.
The NHL is really smart about rules changes. The game is very much the same as it has ever been, but safer.
The bottom line is nobody ever seduced Susan Sarandon by listing all the great things about football or basketball. I wish people would just focus more on the things that make baseball great, rather than endlessly nit-picking about pitchers not being able to hit like first-basemen who can't field or the foibles of human umpires or the occasional bad pitcher who can't make up his mind.
But your claim is that the game hasn't changed, has never needed to change, and doesn't need to change now? Then how to explain this much... change?
I’d like to see how much time has been added due to added commercial breaks… 30 seconds per half inning is basically 10 minutes added.
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Post by Guidas on Mar 11, 2022 9:32:28 GMT -5
Either way, it changes the calculus for a guy like Schwarber, I expect. Also makes JDM more tradeable. Just… interesting. Agreed. I can appreciate those things because reality is reality (and ideally, you can find interesting things about reality).
I just never liked it even though I'm a fan of a big-market AL team that almost always has a premium, full-time DH. I've always enjoyed the NL game more. Some of the things we'll never see/hear again: A pitcher "helping his own cause." A pitchers' duel in which the starters both bat into the late innings because they're both dealing. A pitcher who everyone knows is a good hitter because he's got receipts vs big-league pitching.
Small ball. A proven pinch-hitter.
Real strategy. And don't tell me that the other sports change their rules all the time, so why not baseball? It's because they needed to. Baseball was born fully formed and armed, like Athena out of Zeus's forehead. The NFL spent the first half of its existence as a single-wing snooze-fest. And they got so enamored of rules changes that now the smartest play call is to chuck the ball deep knowing that you're bound to get a pass interference call half the time. (I also love how people moan about how slow baseball is but they'll sit glued to 5 minutes of replays to see if a guy really caught a 5-yard pass without bobbling it.)
The NBA spent the first half of its existence with guys taking set shots and defenders coached to never leave their feet (until Bill Russell defied his college coach and showed him that he could change the game by swatting opponents shots toward his teammates). It has since turned into a nightly 48-minute 3-point shooting contest. Yawn.
The NHL is really smart about rules changes. The game is very much the same as it has ever been, but safer. The bottom line is nobody ever seduced Susan Sarandon by listing all the great things about football or basketball. I wish people would just focus more on the things that make baseball great, rather than endlessly nit-picking about pitchers not being able to hit like first-basemen who can't field or the foibles of human umpires or the occasional bad pitcher who can't make up his mind.
I still think Ohtani may hit in some of his starts.
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Post by Guidas on Mar 11, 2022 9:34:44 GMT -5
But your claim is that the game hasn't changed, has never needed to change, and doesn't need to change now? Then how to explain this much... change?
I’d like to see how much time has been added due to added commercial breaks… 30 seconds per half inning is basically 10 minutes added. They could get rid of a lot of delays if they ended pitcher-catcher conferences. Absurd, and some teams and pitchers really abuse this. If batters can't get 20-40 second conferences between pitches, pitchers shouldn't get it with batters regardless of the situation. The only stop should be for injury or to pull the pitcher. Period. Also, make the batters stay in the box. This is a rule. Enforce it.
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Post by julyanmorley on Mar 11, 2022 10:28:35 GMT -5
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2022 11:01:38 GMT -5
Either way, it changes the calculus for a guy like Schwarber, I expect. Also makes JDM more tradeable. Just… interesting. Agreed. I can appreciate those things because reality is reality (and ideally, you can find interesting things about reality).
I just never liked it even though I'm a fan of a big-market AL team that almost always has a premium, full-time DH. I've always enjoyed the NL game more.
Some of the things we'll never see/hear again: A pitcher "helping his own cause." A pitchers' duel in which the starters both bat into the late innings because they're both dealing. A pitcher who everyone knows is a good hitter because he's got receipts vs big-league pitching.
Small ball. A proven pinch-hitter.
Real strategy.
And don't tell me that the other sports change their rules all the time, so why not baseball? It's because they needed to. Baseball was born fully formed and armed, like Athena out of Zeus's forehead. The NFL spent the first half of its existence as a single-wing snooze-fest. And they got so enamored of rules changes that now the smartest play call is to chuck the ball deep knowing that you're bound to get a pass interference call half the time. (I also love how people moan about how slow baseball is but they'll sit glued to 5 minutes of replays to see if a guy really caught a 5-yard pass without bobbling it.)
The NBA spent the first half of its existence with guys taking set shots and defenders coached to never leave their feet (until Bill Russell defied his college coach and showed him that he could change the game by swatting opponents shots toward his teammates). It has since turned into a nightly 48-minute 3-point shooting contest. Yawn.
The NHL is really smart about rules changes. The game is very much the same as it has ever been, but safer.
The bottom line is nobody ever seduced Susan Sarandon by listing all the great things about football or basketball. I wish people would just focus more on the things that make baseball great, rather than endlessly nit-picking about pitchers not being able to hit like first-basemen who can't field or the foibles of human umpires or the occasional bad pitcher who can't make up his mind.
Pitchers hitting…..good riddance! Only took them 50 years to figure out pitchers can’t hit. I always hated watching NL games if I could watch an AL game.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 11, 2022 11:15:39 GMT -5
I can find that the CBT taxes are the same for up to 40 million. I can't find what the new level over 40 million is and if they still have that stupid move the draft pick back ten spots. Anyone have that information?
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jimoh
Veteran
Posts: 3,989
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Post by jimoh on Mar 11, 2022 11:16:49 GMT -5
I've always enjoyed the NL game more.
Some of the things we'll never see/hear again: A pitcher "helping his own cause." A pitchers' duel in which the starters both bat into the late innings because they're both dealing. A pitcher who everyone knows is a good hitter because he's got receipts vs big-league pitching.
Small ball. A proven pinch-hitter.
Real strategy.
[...] I wish people would just focus more on the things that make baseball great, rather than endlessly nit-picking about pitchers not being able to hit like first-basemen who can't field or the foibles of human umpires or the occasional bad pitcher who can't make up his mind.
Maybe some AAA team will offer a promotion for guys who long for the days when pitchers batted, in which they randomly pick some guy out of the stands to bat so everyone can see what it was like in the good old days when a person who can't hit got to strike out on national tv.
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jimoh
Veteran
Posts: 3,989
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Post by jimoh on Mar 11, 2022 11:24:37 GMT -5
This is potentially significant... [...] This seems like a big deal. Is this the end of taking a senior in the tenth round and paying him $10,000 so you can spend more on your third round pick? The slot for the Red Sox' 10th round pick in 2022 is $148,400. In 2023, would they have to pay that guy 75% of $148k or so? Or will there be a run on seniors not taking physicals so they can be signed for $10-50k?
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Post by vermontsox1 on Mar 11, 2022 11:30:46 GMT -5
No. First, almost all senior signs are not top-300 players. Second, they would also have to submit to a pre-draft physical. Team just tells the player that they don't need to do the physical before the draft then offer them way below slot. Doesn't seem to be a problem under the new rules.
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Post by julyanmorley on Mar 11, 2022 11:44:42 GMT -5
A Senior that has the opportunity will probably want to do the physical. Getting drafted and offered a 10k bonus is not a great outcome for them. You do the physical and you're guaranteed 112.5k even if you're the last pick in the draft.
Mid-round HS players and college juniors might want to skip the physical to leave the option of doing an underslot deal. If MLB is smart the rule will be written such that a player can waive this 75% guarantee before the selection is made so we don't have this goofy situation of incentives pulling in opposite directions.
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Post by bluechip on Mar 11, 2022 11:54:23 GMT -5
Agreed. I can appreciate those things because reality is reality (and ideally, you can find interesting things about reality).
I just never liked it even though I'm a fan of a big-market AL team that almost always has a premium, full-time DH. I've always enjoyed the NL game more. Some of the things we'll never see/hear again: A pitcher "helping his own cause." A pitchers' duel in which the starters both bat into the late innings because they're both dealing. A pitcher who everyone knows is a good hitter because he's got receipts vs big-league pitching.
Small ball. A proven pinch-hitter.
Real strategy. And don't tell me that the other sports change their rules all the time, so why not baseball? It's because they needed to. Baseball was born fully formed and armed, like Athena out of Zeus's forehead. The NFL spent the first half of its existence as a single-wing snooze-fest. And they got so enamored of rules changes that now the smartest play call is to chuck the ball deep knowing that you're bound to get a pass interference call half the time. (I also love how people moan about how slow baseball is but they'll sit glued to 5 minutes of replays to see if a guy really caught a 5-yard pass without bobbling it.)
The NBA spent the first half of its existence with guys taking set shots and defenders coached to never leave their feet (until Bill Russell defied his college coach and showed him that he could change the game by swatting opponents shots toward his teammates). It has since turned into a nightly 48-minute 3-point shooting contest. Yawn.
The NHL is really smart about rules changes. The game is very much the same as it has ever been, but safer. The bottom line is nobody ever seduced Susan Sarandon by listing all the great things about football or basketball. I wish people would just focus more on the things that make baseball great, rather than endlessly nit-picking about pitchers not being able to hit like first-basemen who can't field or the foibles of human umpires or the occasional bad pitcher who can't make up his mind.
Pitchers hitting…..good riddance! Only took them 50 years to figure out pitchers can’t hit. I always hated watching NL games if I could watch an AL game. The NL not adopting the DH was a total accident anyway. The Pirates told their rep to do whatever the Phillies did. The Phillies told their representative to vote to adopt the DH. When it came time to vote, the DH was going to be adopted a year later than the Phillies had originally thought. The Phillies couldn’t reach their owner who was fishing, so they abstained. The Pirates also abstained and the DH was not adopted. If cell phones existed in the 1980s, the NL would have the DH.
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Post by bluechip on Mar 11, 2022 11:55:44 GMT -5
A Senior that has the opportunity will probably want to do the physical. Getting drafted and offered a 10k bonus is not a great outcome for them. You do the physical and you're guaranteed 112.5k even if you're the last pick in the draft. Mid-round HS players and college juniors might want to skip the physical to leave the option of doing an underslot deal. If MLB is smart the rule will be written such that a player can waive this 75% guarantee before the selection is made so we don't have this goofy situation of incentives pulling in opposite directions. Except those seniors likely would not have been drafted otherwise. They’re only drafted because of the slotting system.
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Post by julyanmorley on Mar 11, 2022 12:13:11 GMT -5
A top-300 senior is not really a threat to get passed over 30 times in the 20th round unless they got charged with a felony or something.
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Post by jimed14 on Mar 11, 2022 12:16:20 GMT -5
A top-300 senior is not really a threat to get passed over 30 times in the 20th round unless they got charged with a felony or something. Most top 300 players would be drafted and signed before they were seniors. Senior signs are org types that are a long shot to ever make the majors. In fact I can't even think of a senior sign that was ranked at all.
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Post by vermontsox1 on Mar 11, 2022 12:21:00 GMT -5
A top-300 senior is not really a threat to get passed over 30 times in the 20th round unless they got charged with a felony or something. Last year there were only two seniors drafted that were in MLB Pipeline's top 250: Mason Miller and Dylan Dodd. Miller got full slot. Dodd was way under slot. So ultimately this probably only affects a very small amount of players.
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Post by julyanmorley on Mar 11, 2022 13:04:05 GMT -5
One perverse incentive with these Prospect Promotion Incentive draft picks is that you may see a team hold back on a mid/late season promotion so they can maintain rookie eligibility for the next season.
Casas for example might be ready at the end of July, but they hold him back until mid-August because if he wins 2023 Rookie of the Year they get the #37 (or whatever) draft pick
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mobaz
Veteran
Posts: 2,797
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Post by mobaz on Mar 11, 2022 15:00:49 GMT -5
www.yahoo.com/sports/report-unvaccinated-mlb-players-cant-travel-to-canada-wont-be-paid-for-missed-games-161439061.htmlMLB players who choose to remain unvaccinated against COVID-19 reportedly won't be able to travel to Canada when the new season begins on April 7, and will face other consequences as a result of their choice. According to WCVB's Duke Castiglione and Sportsnet's Shi Davidi and Ben Nicholson-Smith, players who are unvaccinated will be placed on the restricted list when their teams travel to Canada to play the Toronto Blue Jays. Players on the restricted list do not accrue service time or receive salary for missed games.
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Post by jimed14 on Mar 11, 2022 15:08:59 GMT -5
Didn't Canada get the memo that COVID is over and no one cares anymore?
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