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Post by Chris Hatfield on Dec 10, 2020 14:47:20 GMT -5
Whitlock feels like a guy who they'll stretch in camp but won't be one of the top 5 starters so he'll start in a long relief role, but he'll get spot starts. Think Johnson/Valasquez in '18.
And to be clear on the Quattlebaum call, he was asked by Chad Jennings if they can procedurally put him on the 60-day--not even if that's the plan--and he danced around that part but was clear that the plan is not to do that at all.
Of course, we'll see if they find in the spring he's "not quite on that schedule like they'd hoped" or something.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Dec 10, 2020 15:05:23 GMT -5
Indeed, should've peeped the game log before posting. Good catch. I wonder if it's less a case that they lost faith in Reed and more that Curtis Terry (also a 1B-only profile with a thick frame) just passed him in their eyes and became the priority. Terry got promoted to High A right about when Reed got sent back to Hickory. Terry is older and wasn't necessarily better at Hickory in '19 than Reed was in '18. Terry delivered after the promotion though, so if they did see something it's tough to question it. ------ As far as Whitlock: I tweeted something along these lines, but I think the Rule 5-to-starter role is a little easier than it used to be. For quite awhile it was hard throwing relievers who hadn't quite put harnessed their control or starter-to-reliever conversions because R5 guys generally weren't MLB starter-ready. But with long relief swingmen and 3-4 inning types to follow an opener back in vogue, it's a path that a guy like Whitlock could take to being a starter by late '21. That's a great explanation for why he went back to low-A. This seems like a rare case of grabbing an actual prospect in the ml phase of the draft.
Whitlock hasn't pitched professionally since 7/3/19, when he gave up 5 runs to the SeaDogs in the 5th inning. Putting him on the IL and having him sit to start the season makes little sense, but there's every reason to put him on the IL and start him immediately at AA on a rehab assignment, then promote him to AAA. That's 30 days when you can take a look at other guys in the last-man-in-pen role. And if he struggles, as a TJ guy you can petition the Comish for 10 extra days, and do that three times. I don't think the rehab time will count towards the 90 days necessary to fulfill the annual requirement for being active, though.
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Post by electricityverdugo99 on Dec 10, 2020 15:40:47 GMT -5
I joked around just about a hour ago and said to my brother-
"I've never been this excited over a Yankees prospect in my life."
Looks like a keeper. Bloom is turning the starting pitching depth from a wasteland to maybe one of the best teams in the majors now at the position.
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Post by johnsilver52 on Dec 10, 2020 15:59:39 GMT -5
Whitlock could be an interesting guy to see in use as an opener when they use one. Not any worse than some they had last season and what about Ort? 29 when season starts, but the reliever was looking for them to take and don't even have to keep him on the roster. Almost like signing a Milb fa, except this one has real upside.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Dec 10, 2020 16:41:04 GMT -5
Whitlock doesn't make sense to me as an opener. Did you mean the bulk reliever after the opener? That's where he'd make sense to me. It's three average-ish pitches and he gets ground balls.
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Post by vermontsox1 on Dec 10, 2020 17:14:40 GMT -5
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Post by patford on Dec 10, 2020 19:39:11 GMT -5
Looks like Whitlock has a fairly nasty two seam with the same sort of late quick jump to the right as Houck displayed.
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Post by vermontsox1 on Dec 10, 2020 20:11:54 GMT -5
Whitlock enters MLB Pipeline's Red Sox prospect list at #27. The 20s seems like the right range for him. I think I would put Reed in the 40-60 range, but don't feel strongly about that.
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Post by soxaddict on Dec 10, 2020 21:10:23 GMT -5
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Dec 10, 2020 22:11:23 GMT -5
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Post by vermontsox1 on Dec 11, 2020 11:03:06 GMT -5
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Post by vermontsox1 on Dec 11, 2020 11:57:18 GMT -5
Whitlock enters MLB Pipeline's Red Sox prospect list at #27. The 20s seems like the right range for him. I think I would put Reed in the 40-60 range, but don't feel strongly about that. Whitlock enters the Sox Prospects ranking at #30. Reed and Ort did not make the list.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Dec 11, 2020 12:10:13 GMT -5
Interesting. FWIW, "wherever he's gone" is really only rookie ball and Low A. High A in 2019 was an appropriate level for him and he really struggled. He's kind of a more power, less hit version of maybe Granberg or Benge, although he's significantly younger and has the intriguing tool in his power they don't have. Next time we re-rank he might be in the 60s or 70s for me.
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jimoh
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Post by jimoh on Dec 11, 2020 13:17:52 GMT -5
Whitlock doesn't make sense to me as an opener. Did you mean the bulk reliever after the opener? That's where he'd make sense to me. It's three average-ish pitches and he gets ground balls. Don't we need a term for the person who would pitch after an opener? The follower? An opener's friend? A second fiddle? A second story man? The deuteragonist? The second-starter (two meanings of "second" there). A middler? The afteropener? The second course?
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Dec 11, 2020 13:59:04 GMT -5
Interesting. FWIW, "wherever he's gone" is really only rookie ball and Low A. High A in 2019 was an appropriate level for him and he really struggled. He's kind of a more power, less hit version of maybe Granberg or Benge, although he's significantly younger and has the intriguing tool in his power they don't have. Next time we re-rank he might be in the 60s or 70s for me. You were the guy who figured out why Reed wasn't given a chance to go back to high-A after his initial struggles there. He had better numbers at Hickory then the year before, but was a year older, so I was curious as to how to compare the seasons. The Davenport Peak Translations were .271 and .271.
Now, you do have to combine the second .271 with his .246 in high-A, so you get .262, not that much of a decline. And there's no magical difference between low-A and high-A.
Now, there's an argument that he belongs just outside the top 60, but not for the reasons you give -- he's a high-strikeout guy, and he plays 1B. Here's a comparison by age to Ockimey, who's #59. Ock Reed X 18 .277 .253 19 .264 .231 20 .282 .286 .257 21 .266 .271 .247 22 .275 .262 .239 23 .276 .238
Countering this would be his 70 power grade and the team's professed interest in him.
In looking at the guys 50-60 I noticed another toolsy guy with a bigger strikeout problem (and a much longer history of it) at #55. Yes, X = Gettys. Ock and Reed have career .272 and Gettys has a .244, and that's bigger than the defensive difference. I think the small possibility of a magical swing tweak for Gettys makes him arguable at #55, but I hope folks get that omitting Reed but including the other two is is guesswork.
I think Ock is the only known entirely known quantity, and he projects as an up-and-down platoon player, which is something; if Moreland (or whoever) gets hurt this year, Ockimey might see some time as a PH and might well not suck. I'd have Ockimey at 55 and Reed at 59, personally.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Dec 11, 2020 14:24:06 GMT -5
Whitlock doesn't make sense to me as an opener. Did you mean the bulk reliever after the opener? That's where he'd make sense to me. It's three average-ish pitches and he gets ground balls. Don't we need a term for the person who would pitch after an opener? The follower? An opener's friend? A second fiddle? A second story man? The deuteragonist? The second-starter (two meanings of "second" there). A middler? The afteropener? The second course? It has to end in -er, like starter, opener, and reliever (which is why "bulk guy" doesn't work). When combined with "Game," it can't create an abbreviation already in use, which is why "Games Bulked" by (the bulker) doesn't work.
I know that:
a) I spent ten minutes one day with an online thesaurus and couldn't come up with anything I liked b) I encountered a term I liked online that I thought was very straightforward, but forgot it c) I just came up with "extender" without any effort of thought. So I'm guessing that c = b here, which is to say, that was a memory, not an invention.
Although maybe not. Jake McBride of the Santa Barbara Community College Vaqueroes said, of his first career save on 1/24/20, "I like to do whatever they put me in -- opener, extender or closer," but that's the only Google hit I could find on the two terms plus "inning.""
I really want to see GS divided into GS and GO, and GR divided into GR and GE. And retroactively! That would bring good statistical comparisons to life.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Dec 11, 2020 14:33:27 GMT -5
Whitlock doesn't make sense to me as an opener. Did you mean the bulk reliever after the opener? That's where he'd make sense to me. It's three average-ish pitches and he gets ground balls. Don't we need a term for the person who would pitch after an opener? The follower? An opener's friend? A second fiddle? A second story man? The deuteragonist? The second-starter (two meanings of "second" there). A middler? The afteropener? The second course? Bulky Boy
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Post by greenmonster on Dec 11, 2020 14:40:53 GMT -5
How about "Middler" as in Middle Innings Reliever
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 11, 2020 14:49:48 GMT -5
How about "Follower"? He follows the opener.
How about we just get back to starter, reliever, and closer?
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Dec 11, 2020 15:16:27 GMT -5
You were the guy who figured out why Reed wasn't given a chance to go back to high-A after his initial struggles there. I actually think it was James.
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shagworthy
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Post by shagworthy on Dec 11, 2020 15:24:15 GMT -5
How about "Middler" as in Middle Innings Reliever Middler seems oddly profane. A little too close to fiddler for me, especially with the historic context of the Red Sox Clubhouse manager...
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Post by beasleyrockah on Dec 11, 2020 15:33:42 GMT -5
I'll nominate "the wingman" - he's the pitcher that comes in to help when his buddy (the opener) can't get any further on his own.
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Post by jbsox on Dec 11, 2020 15:50:47 GMT -5
You could have fun with this finding words that end in er.
The counterattacker Or Counterpuncher Trailblazer Placeholder Nonbeliever Changeover Stabilizer Crossover Newcomer Leftover Merger
Lol
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jimoh
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Post by jimoh on Dec 11, 2020 18:28:56 GMT -5
set-up man does not end in -er.
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jimoh
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Post by jimoh on Dec 11, 2020 18:39:03 GMT -5
The heir (and when he start warming up he's the "heir apparent") The successor The second leg (as in a relay) The suffect starter (a suffect consul is one who serves the rest of a consul's term)
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