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Red Sox Sign RHP Matt Andriese; Reds claim C Deivy Grullon
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Post by vermontsox1 on Dec 23, 2020 14:05:18 GMT -5
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Post by vermontsox1 on Dec 23, 2020 14:10:14 GMT -5
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Post by electricityverdugo99 on Dec 23, 2020 14:12:45 GMT -5
I thought Whitlock was going to be the swingman for this team? Now they have two? Not sure about this signing, but probably goes to the meh category. Stinks to lose the catching depth.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 23, 2020 14:15:34 GMT -5
Looking over Adriese's numbers, he's never really had a year you could call stand-out. He's never really been much above average. He has ranged from mediocre to average in his career and now he's 31 years old. I guess he gets the money that they were going to try to sign Kahnle with?
I hope they can do better than this in addressing the bullpen.
Too bad they lost Grullon. He could have been a good emergency catcher option if they required one.
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Post by electricityverdugo99 on Dec 23, 2020 14:18:05 GMT -5
Looking over Adriese's numbers, he's never really had a year you could call stand-out. He's never really been much above average. He has ranged from mediocre to average in his career and now he's 31 years old. I guess he gets the money that they were going to try to sign Kahnle with? I hope they can do better than this in addressing the bullpen. Too bad they lost Grullon. He could have been a good emergency catcher option if they required one. Yeah I don't get it myself. Is Andriese really all that much better than Mazza, Brewer, or Walden? I don't see it.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Dec 23, 2020 14:25:12 GMT -5
Good spin rates, strike out numbers creeping up. He was a solid arm in Tampa and actually has a pretty good FIP since leaving despite the iffy ERA. He can give them 4-5 as a starter in a pinch if necessary
They’re going to get a stupid amount of pitching guys. Having Garrett Whitlock certainly doesn’t disqualify them from adding other possible multiple inning arms lol
Also side note I worked with him briefly in the cape league. Never really got to talk to him though
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Post by vermontsox1 on Dec 23, 2020 14:25:47 GMT -5
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Post by greekgodofpancakes on Dec 23, 2020 14:35:04 GMT -5
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Post by TheCerebral1 on Dec 23, 2020 14:38:51 GMT -5
It's a decent enough signing while continuing to build up.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Dec 23, 2020 14:47:52 GMT -5
First off, Cotillo's reporting contradicts Heyman. He says $1.85 for 2020, $3.5M club option/$250k buyout for 2021. Escalators/incentives based on IP can bring it up another $2M.
He notes the incentives max out at 150 IP, which makes it seem like they've got a bulk role in mind for him. Given the circumstances coming out of 2020, I wonder if they're stocking up on bulk guys who can also pitch in traditional bullpen roles for starters who're going to have to be brought along slowly after limited work in 2020.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Dec 23, 2020 14:49:07 GMT -5
For those who listened to the recent Podcast, I believe it was Ian Cundall who made the point that the team should spend their money on starting pitching, that relievers can be stockpiled to see who can deliver and who can't, building a bullpen in just that way. I'm on board with that and the acquisitions looks to be right down that alley.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Dec 23, 2020 14:50:48 GMT -5
Also, I wanted to put this in a separate post, but Grullon being the one removed from the 40 baffles me. How is Pedroia still on the roster once you get to him? Not even to mention Springs, Walden, Brewer, Chatham, or Payamps.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Dec 23, 2020 14:56:25 GMT -5
Impossible to judge him by numbers, as his last three years (as a nearly full-time reliever) had bWAR of -1.0, 0.0, 1.6 (prorated). So it's an upside signing based on a SSS breakout and very likely data and analysis they have that's not public.
I'm as surprised as Chris that they waived Grullon. Now Pereda is the #3 catcher and would require a 40-man opening or move for even a 10 day stint. That's really not a good situation. IIRC, the last time we had it Dan Butler was the 3rd man. Maybe they have a ml deal in the works for someone's underrated AAAA catcher with an option left. If your 3rd catcher can effortlessly clear waivers (making him equivalent to a guy with options), that guy is probably weak.
That they appear to have a swingman or bulk role in mind is also puzzling, unless they actually see Whitlock as a short guy. Edit: or what Norm said while I was typing. He'd be another bulk / swingman option even if they think he can pitch in the 7th inning, and that doesn't suck.
That they filled what appears to be the second spot in the bullpen revamp with a RHR is a bit of a surprise, given the current balance. It's possible that they plan to add 3 relievers or that they'll pursue LHR as NRI types. Or they think Springs will be a significant contributor and he's a guy they plan not to waive..
Or maybe this is the second SP roster spot, which would also be a surprise and disappointment.
Essentially, a move that's as puzzling as Renfroe was obvious. I think the only thing we know is that they really, really like him and they're fairly sure about it.
Edit #2: This move makes a lot of sense if they plan to go to a "six-man" rotation, which would actually be a six-day rotation with all of the regular starters pitching with 5 days rest most of the time .
The MLB schedule in 2018 and 2019 ran 186 days, which is 31 x 6. Compare to 33 x 2 + 32 x 3 which is a strict 5-man rotation. Essentially, you can customize everyone's workload and get them as many starts as seems proper, and if you have enough depth such that the 6th spot is always manned credibly, it's very likely a win in the long term.
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Post by unitspin on Dec 23, 2020 15:29:33 GMT -5
For those who listened to the recent Podcast, I believe it was Ian Cundall who made the point that the team should spend their money on starting pitching, that relievers can be stockpiled to see who can deliver and who can't, building a bullpen in just that way. I'm on board with that and the acquisitions looks to be right down that alley. They tried this out in 2020 and landed on valdez, who looks like a good piece for the pen. I think they still need to get a closer but id rather see the money spent on starting pitching as well.
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Post by Guidas on Dec 23, 2020 15:33:30 GMT -5
So the Front Office and Ownership are going to wait a few years for blue chip free agent prices to go up before they spend on them, or are the Red Sox becoming the Rays?
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Dec 23, 2020 15:44:28 GMT -5
It's early, the market isn't going to move until after the Japanese pitchers finish posting in the next 2 weeks.
I am wondering if signing a second bulk guy isn't part of a plan to only pick up one starter, not two. If that's the case, I'd look for the Sox to add depth at AAA with Mazza/Munoz type deals.
A rotation of ERod, Eovaldi, acquisition, Houck, Pivetta with Mazza, Gonsalves, Mata, Seabold, others in reserve is decent enough until Sale's return.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Dec 23, 2020 15:57:50 GMT -5
ADD: If they wanted to give someone a Munoz/Mazza type minor league deal, they should be able to pretty much have their pick of taxi catchers and wouldn't need to worry about waiver clearance.
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Dec 23, 2020 16:40:36 GMT -5
So the Front Office and Ownership are going to wait a few years for blue chip free agent prices to go up before they spend on them, or are the Red Sox becoming the Rays? The sox have already spent more this offseason than the rays usually do. This fan base acts like spoiled toddlers. Give it time. You want Bauer and Springer? Last time the sox signed the top 2 free agents they needed magic Johnson to bail their asses out
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Post by Canseco on Dec 23, 2020 16:45:23 GMT -5
Also, I wanted to put this in a separate post, but Grullon being the one removed from the 40 baffles me. How is Pedroia still on the roster once you get to him? Not even to mention Springs, Walden, Brewer, Chatham, or Payamps. Same. These two transactions, side by side, really irk me. You lose a decent young catching prospect with big league experience to make room for this type of arm? Flummoxing...
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Post by soxaddict on Dec 23, 2020 17:17:36 GMT -5
Also, I wanted to put this in a separate post, but Grullon being the one removed from the 40 baffles me. How is Pedroia still on the roster once you get to him? Not even to mention Springs, Walden, Brewer, Chatham, or Payamps. Same. These two transactions, side by side, really irk me. You lose a decent young catching prospect with big league experience to make room for this type of arm? Flummoxing... Puzzling to say the least. I’d rank him below Brewer, Walden or Mazza, not to mention the loss of Grullon.
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Post by soxaddict on Dec 23, 2020 17:35:10 GMT -5
So the Front Office and Ownership are going to wait a few years for blue chip free agent prices to go up before they spend on them, or are the Red Sox becoming the Rays? The sox have already spent more this offseason than the rays usually do. This fan base acts like spoiled toddlers. Give it time. You want Bauer and Springer? Last time the sox signed the top 2 free agents they needed magic Johnson to bail their asses out I personally have no desire to sign Bauer, Springer, etc. But come on man, Andriese is tough sell. I fail to see the upside in this signing.
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Post by greenmonster on Dec 23, 2020 17:35:24 GMT -5
Also, I wanted to put this in a separate post, but Grullon being the one removed from the 40 baffles me. How is Pedroia still on the roster once you get to him? Not even to mention Springs, Walden, Brewer, Chatham, or Payamps. Same. These two transactions, side by side, really irk me. You lose a decent young catching prospect with big league experience to make room for this type of arm? Flummoxing... Obviously means they are signing Realamuto
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Dec 23, 2020 18:08:56 GMT -5
The sox have already spent more this offseason than the rays usually do. This fan base acts like spoiled toddlers. Give it time. You want Bauer and Springer? Last time the sox signed the top 2 free agents they needed magic Johnson to bail their asses out I personally have no desire to sign Bauer, Springer, etc. But come on man, Andriese is tough sell. I fail to see the upside in this signing. Point out the downside to a 2 million dollar signing... this won't stop them from accomplishing anything else they may want to do
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Dec 23, 2020 18:36:44 GMT -5
Yeah the guy that’s thrown 460 inning of more or less average ball in the bigs and can give you bulk is no better than Colten Brewer lol
Leave it to Sox fans to complain about throwing the likes of Hall and Hart last season, only to turn around and complain when they add quality depth the following offseason
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Dec 23, 2020 18:42:07 GMT -5
They must have thought Grullon doesn’t have the mitt to stay behind the plate. That’s my only way of justifying him being the roster spot axed
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