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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 19, 2021 8:20:26 GMT -5
How do you judge a player defensively? When you play on good teams that value D or when he plays on crappy teams that don’t? Go look at Parkers numbers during that epic seven game series against us in the 2018 playoffs. Second best defensive rating on the team during those seven games. That means a lot more to me than his play on the Bulls and Hawks. It shows you what he can do when he plays hard and it's not one of the worst defenders in Basketball when he's a reserve player. Well that's the player I see right now watching him. He chased money on bad teams and he wasn't a fit. Yet he picked the perfect team fit wise and a coach that values D. He's playing for his career and it shows. He's playing so he can have the Celtics pick up a veteran minimum deal for next year. Exactly the type of player you want and perfect given our up coming cap issues. Jabari Parker in 2018: “They don’t pay players to play defense.” He was a bad defender before two ACL injuries, and now, he’s a statue. Can’t stay in front of guys, poor footwork, bad help defender instincts, not physical enough to bang inside. There’s more of an attempt at effort now, but it mostly comes off as activity for the sake of activity. He’s washing out of the league because, despite his obvious offensive skills, he can’t defend. That's what you've seen this year on the Celtics? |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 19, 2021 8:30:07 GMT -5
Nice win, yet anything on Robert Williams? He wasn't close to 100% before he went down, he was moving very slowly up and down the court. Then could hardly move when he came out for the second half.
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Post by rjp313jr on May 19, 2021 9:29:49 GMT -5
Jabari Parker in 2018: “They don’t pay players to play defense.” He was a bad defender before two ACL injuries, and now, he’s a statue. Can’t stay in front of guys, poor footwork, bad help defender instincts, not physical enough to bang inside. There’s more of an attempt at effort now, but it mostly comes off as activity for the sake of activity. He’s washing out of the league because, despite his obvious offensive skills, he can’t defend. That's what you've seen this year on the Celtics? He hasn’t played because he doesn’t know the defense - I haven’t seen all his minutes but he hasn’t exactly dug in when I’ve seen him. |
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Post by rjp313jr on May 19, 2021 9:35:14 GMT -5
Nice win, yet anything on Robert Williams? He wasn't close to 100% before he went down, he was moving very slowly up and down the court. Then could hardly move when he came out for the second half. The only thing to know is it’s the same injury that hasn’t healed in the previous 2 weeks and he aggravated it so it’s not going to heal for this series. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 19, 2021 11:32:21 GMT -5
That's what you've seen this year on the Celtics? He hasn’t played because he doesn’t know the defense - I haven’t seen all his minutes but he hasn’t exactly dug in when I’ve seen him. Given Fourniers covid time loss he has about the same time in the system. See I have seen him playing hard, digging in while defending Randle. I see the guy from the 2018 playoffs. That guy, as long as he's playing hard is a net positive. You're playing the Nets, you will need a guy like Parker over Semi/Grant. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 19, 2021 11:34:28 GMT -5
Nice win, yet anything on Robert Williams? He wasn't close to 100% before he went down, he was moving very slowly up and down the court. Then could hardly move when he came out for the second half. The only thing to know is it’s the same injury that hasn’t healed in the previous 2 weeks and he aggravated it so it’s not going to heal for this series. I asked because it didn't look like the toe watching the game, yet found an article where Steven's said it was the toe. So yeah he's likely done for the year unless the move to round two. |
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on May 19, 2021 12:52:40 GMT -5
When Tatum drives the ball and earns a bunch of free throw attempts, good things happen. That is something we all lamented on the board for a while, that he wasn't drawing fouls. Now that he has developed that this year he is taking one more step to being a top ten player in my mind soon to be top 5. This is going to be a lost year in terms of winning but not in developing for the future as far as I'm concerned when it comes to Brown and Tatum. A long offseason might not be bad for these guys, Brown obviously will need it, but as a team they need to regroup. They lacked practice time this year and never gelled on the court defensive or offensively, hence leading to too much ISO for Tatum, Brown and Kemba. A byproduct of that also is less intensity from Brown and Tatum on D as they expend their energy on O. That is the next lesson for those two to learn, bringing that level of D they used to play with before becoming the two top scoring options. Sad to see R Williams develop into a real player on the court but then not be able to stay healthy enough to stay out there. His and Kembas future health are major question marks moving forward obviously. They have found some good pieces for the future this year but those two are two big questions that need answers if they can't compete and the answers are not currently on the team. Very reasonable point: they've basically had no practice time for a year and a quarter, no offseason program to speak of, barely any breaks between games, illnesses/injuries. It's probably reasonable for the growth of JB/JT to be stunted (or more accurately the fruits of it inconsistent). It sucks JB will still not have a normal offseason but I hope increased practice time and a less condensed schedule helps Brad implement his program better and all three look better next season. |
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cdj
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Post by cdj on May 19, 2021 14:59:43 GMT -5
Jrue really would have been the perfect add imo
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Post by jmei on May 19, 2021 15:01:14 GMT -5
Jabari Parker in 2018: “They don’t pay players to play defense.” He was a bad defender before two ACL injuries, and now, he’s a statue. Can’t stay in front of guys, poor footwork, bad help defender instincts, not physical enough to bang inside. There’s more of an attempt at effort now, but it mostly comes off as activity for the sake of activity. He’s washing out of the league because, despite his obvious offensive skills, he can’t defend. That's what you've seen this year on the Celtics? Yeah. Even in his initial breakout game versus the Warriors, he was getting torched by the likes of Jordan Poole. Watch the season finale versus the Knicks and notice how hapless he is in the pick and roll (gives up multiple open threes because he can’t get over a pick): |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 20, 2021 10:26:03 GMT -5
That's what you've seen this year on the Celtics? Yeah. Even in his initial breakout game versus the Warriors, he was getting torched by the likes of Jordan Poole. Watch the season finale versus the Knicks and notice how hapless he is in the pick and roll (gives up multiple open threes because he can’t get over a pick): Did you actually watch that game? I did watch that game, by the way you judge D, you must think Grant Williams is one of the worst defenders in Basketball, he gave up multiple open three's and some weren't even screens where guys were body checking him. That clip only shows part of one possession on Randle, which he did an impressive job on him given Randle is a beast at PF. He's not a good defender, yet I don't come close to seeing one of the worst in the league either. That's a huge bar in today's NBA. You got guys like Doncic in the 4th quarter of a close playoff game not even trying last year. |
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Post by Don Caballero on May 20, 2021 22:07:45 GMT -5
You got guys like Doncic in the 4th quarter of a close playoff game not even trying last year. You positively cannot be seriously comparing playing Doncic to playing JABARI PARKER right friend? |
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Post by rjp313jr on May 21, 2021 4:38:18 GMT -5
Not Celtics related but if LeBron and the other NBA players talk the voters into Steph winning MVP over Jokic that’d be a huge joke. Not only did Jokic play every game (which I know guys like LeBron don’t care about), but his stats are better. Respect the Euro.
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Post by rjp313jr on May 21, 2021 8:09:48 GMT -5
 Yet people want to give up on these two... worth noting the rest are all NBA champions |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 21, 2021 12:27:32 GMT -5
You got guys like Doncic in the 4th quarter of a close playoff game not even trying last year. You positively cannot be seriously comparing playing Doncic to playing JABARI PARKER right friend? I used Doncic's playoff D, when he didn't even try in the 4th quarter of a close playoff game as an example of how bad D can be in the NBA. You don't agree? I 100% find it comical if people just overlook that because of his offense. |
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Post by voiceofreason on May 21, 2021 12:44:47 GMT -5
Yet people want to give up on these two... worth noting the rest are all NBA champions I am trying the amused rather than aggravated view but it isn't always easy. So many people calling for major changes I feel like telling them they won't be allowed back on the bandwagon when these guys turn it around. And in regards to your above meme, how about the age of the J's doing it? I mean Tatum is doing that at 22 and all people can say about him is he doesn't make those around him better. After watching Tatum improve each and every year I am beginning to think he is a future MVP, can't say that about many guys. Yeah Danny or Stevens has to go. AND Danny can't draft.....LOL.... one of the best draft moves of all time especially if he gets an MVP and Langford develops into a stud. Heck you would have to say he has a good chance of having a better career than Fultz. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 21, 2021 12:44:59 GMT -5
Not Celtics related but if LeBron and the other NBA players talk the voters into Steph winning MVP over Jokic that’d be a huge joke. Not only did Jokic play every game (which I know guys like LeBron don’t care about), but his stats are better. Respect the Euro. That's what you think would get Curry to win, not the fact he was a top scorer in the league? |
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cdj
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Post by cdj on May 21, 2021 13:29:08 GMT -5
If Curry wins MVP I have no problems with it, he has a pretty terrible supporting cast and played awesome ball all year
If Jokic wins I think the same (except I think his supporting cast is better)
I don’t think either winning should or would be controversial
Perkins trying WAY too hard on ESPN this morning
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Post by rjp313jr on May 21, 2021 14:08:39 GMT -5
Not Celtics related but if LeBron and the other NBA players talk the voters into Steph winning MVP over Jokic that’d be a huge joke. Not only did Jokic play every game (which I know guys like LeBron don’t care about), but his stats are better. Respect the Euro. That's what you think would get Curry to win, not the fact he was a top scorer in the league? Scoring is the only thing Curry did better and Jokic averaged 26.5 a game so it’s not like he wasn’t a high level scorer. Jokic Mins 34.6 Curry mins 34.2 Jokic Points 26.4 Curry points 32.0 Jokic Reb 10.8 Curry reb. 5.5 Jokic AST 8.3 Curry ast 5.8 Jokic Steals 1.3 Curry steals 1.2 Jokic Blocks 0.7 Curry blocks 0.1 Jokic PER 31.36 Curry PER 26.37 Jokic Off rating 120.2 Curry off rating 112.6 Jokic Def rating 120.2 Curry def rating 109.6 Jokic Net rating 7.7 Curry net rating 4.6 Jokic Assist% 37.7 Curry assist% 28.3 Jokic PIE 20.1 Curry PIE 18.1 Jokic was the best player on the best team in the league. Curry was the best player on the 14th best team. There’s never been an MVP on such a bad team before. There really is no good argument not to give it to Jokic. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 21, 2021 14:59:30 GMT -5
It's the MVP award, not best player award. When did Denver become the best team? If they had the best record, this would be an easy choice, yet they don't.
I frankly have no issues with all three of the guys winning it. If you put Curry on Denver and Jokic on the Warriors who does better? For me Curry wins that argument and it's not even close. Look at who played for the Warriors for that play in game.
I just don't see the outrage if Curry wins, he's been playing unreal Basketball and helping a crap team win games. For the record, because I'm a stat guy I'd probably vote for Jokic. I just don't see a run away one person race. The talent levels aren't equal, it's not even close on those teams.
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Post by rjp313jr on May 21, 2021 15:10:10 GMT -5
It's the MVP award, not best player award. When did Denver become the best team? If they had the best record, this would be an easy choice, yet they don't. I frankly have no issues with all three of the guys winning it. If you put Curry on Denver and Jokic on the Warriors who does better? For me Curry wins that argument and it's not even close. Look at who played for the Warriors for that play in game. I just don't see the outrage if Curry wins, he's been playing unreal Basketball and helping a crap team win games. For the record, because I'm a stat guy I'd probably vote for Jokic. I just don't see a run away one person race. The talent levels aren't equal, it's not even close on those teams. It’d be unprecedented to give an 8 seed guy the MVP. The only thing Curry did better was score more points but he wasn’t even truly a better offensive player. Curry is amazing and had an amazing year, this isn’t about that. But since when do we value getting the 8th seed? And yea, i mixed up Utah and Denver... in my defense they are basically the same franchises. And 2: it’s very really about “value”... if it were Jordan, would have won every one and LeBron would have won at least 10 straight at one point. |
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Post by Don Caballero on May 21, 2021 17:13:50 GMT -5
Not Celtics related but if LeBron and the other NBA players talk the voters into Steph winning MVP over Jokic that’d be a huge joke. Not only did Jokic play every game (which I know guys like LeBron don’t care about), but his stats are better. Respect the Euro. Couldn't agree more. Jokic this year, Doncic next year, god bless goofy euros! |
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wcp3
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Post by wcp3 on May 21, 2021 19:00:48 GMT -5
There’s an approximately 0% change of anyone but Jokic winning MVP
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Post by Don Caballero on May 21, 2021 20:13:03 GMT -5
There’s an approximately 0% change of anyone but Jokic winning MVP The Murray injury really sealed it IMO. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 22, 2021 11:10:10 GMT -5
I wouldn't forget they added Gordon right around the time Murray went down.
After some thought, I would say Chris Paul would be my first choice for MVP. Yeah he's only 6th in win shares and his numbers aren't mind blowing. Yet he's the MVP on the second best team this year, a team that was a lottery team last year. Perfect example of what a true PG can do for a team.
Celtics are listing Robert Williams as probable for tonight's game, that is rather shocking.
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Post by jodyreidnichols on May 22, 2021 12:51:14 GMT -5
Random question since we're talking Celtics history. Are we actually in a PP-'Toine era right now? Two stars, too immature to bring a team to a championship by themselves, feeling like they are overachieving and underachieving at the same time. Team around them wasn't that good or deep. Is Kemba an overqualified Kenny Anderson? Obviously JB is better than Toine ever was. Jim O'Brien seemed like a good coach but never seemed to get the most out of PP/'Toine. Then they traded Walker and Pierce didn't really get "it" until they added a maniacal competitor and an all-business companion stars desperate for a ring while all were in their 30s. PP/AW reached ECF at ages 25/26 but were never real contenders. We have time before we need to make decisions, and I hope the team can grow (Nesmith and Timelord will have a huge impact on team ceiling). Throw Langford in there too. |
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