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Patriots 2021 Offseason Thread
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Post by rjp313jr on Aug 25, 2021 14:43:26 GMT -5
www.bostonsportsjournal.com/2021/08/25/Cam-Newton-returns-mac-jones-Bill-Belichick-patriots-starter“Bedard: When Cam Newton returns, Bill Belichick shouldn't give him his job back” “Is there any way on God's green Earth that Newton would have done as well or better than what Jones did today? There is no way. This is what Belichick has to be asking himself. There's no way Belichick can watch what just happened over the past three days in totality, factor in what Newton just put the team through and will likely do so again, and believe that Newton gives the Patriots a better chance to win any games more than Jones. And Jones has shown all of us on a daily basis this summer that the more data and reps you feed into Mac The Supercomputer, the better he is going to play.”
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 25, 2021 14:59:42 GMT -5
How many first round picks have done that? So you trade him a year earlier, yet Bill wouldn't flinch either. It certainly didn't workout well for Bell. RBs just don't have much leverage in today's NFL. They are just too easy to replace. What good first round back has played thru his 5 years? Great backs play 3 years on their rookie deals then get huge extensions. Chubb, Elliott, Kamara, Gurley, McCaffrey, Cook, etc… Barkley didn’t get his extension due to him blowing out his knee but still isn’t playing in his 5th year option. Chargers tried to do it with Gordon and he held out - didn’t get his contract but it wasn’t a good situation and they also couldn’t trade him as his value was shot. I have no clue, I mean it's crazy rare for RBs to even go in the first round right now. So you're looking at a crazy small list that even had that option. Yet how many of those guys held out versus the teams just giving out extensions? Bell played out his four year deal, then crap with the franchise tag and then it blew up with the second one. Yet him and Gordon are exactly what I'm talking about, it didn't end well. |
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Post by voiceofreason on Aug 25, 2021 17:32:15 GMT -5
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Post by rjp313jr on Aug 25, 2021 18:07:13 GMT -5
Due to rules the trade had to be changed, here are official terms:  |
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Aug 25, 2021 20:12:48 GMT -5
Value wise that’s better than I thought they’d get
I had him pegged as a 5th rounder
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Post by rjp313jr on Aug 26, 2021 5:50:28 GMT -5
I’m really looking forward to practice today to see who takes the first reps. I’m 90% sure, it will be Cam, but for the first time I’m not 100%… www.nbcsports.com/boston/patriots/mac-jones-should-be-patriots-starting-qb-over-cam-newton“There’s no on-field reason for Cam Newton to ever take a meaningful, regular-season snap for the Patriots while Mac Jones is upright and able.T The week-to-week, day-to-day, play-to-play competency of Jones for the past three weeks has, in my estimation (and those of most of the people watching every rep), put to bed all debate about who is the better quarterback for the Patriots in 2021.” |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 26, 2021 10:36:48 GMT -5
If Cam was better by this huge margin you start him, yet if it's even somewhat close you should pick Mac Jones.
35 out of 40, with 18 straight completions is not something Cam Newton can do. That's the accuracy and arm talent this offense and weapons need. That's is certainly your he just showed he's better moment, yet it likely won't matter.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 26, 2021 10:41:17 GMT -5
Warring had two other teams put in claims on him.
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Post by rjp313jr on Aug 26, 2021 11:53:33 GMT -5
Warring had two other teams put in claims on him. Also missed today’s practice |
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on Aug 26, 2021 12:30:37 GMT -5
Rapsheet says Pats are trading for Ravens CB Shaun Wade. Was pre-season potential 1st rounder who struggled and fell to the 5th. Kind of weird. Wonder if this means Jon Jones' practice injury is bad.
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Post by rjp313jr on Aug 26, 2021 12:44:16 GMT -5
Rapsheet says Pats are trading for Ravens CB Shaun Wade. Was pre-season potential 1st rounder who struggled and fell to the 5th. Kind of weird. Wonder if this means Jon Jones' practice injury is bad. It’s very weird… i want to say it has more to do with guys down the depth chart sucking.. think Williams, Jackson, Bryant etc… |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 26, 2021 12:56:30 GMT -5
Shaun Wade was a favorite of mine leading up to the draft, darn good move. Can play slot CB, outside and safety. Elite physical traits. Was in the first round mix while playing slot CB, struggled when playing outside. You plug him in inside in your sub packages and work on him on the outside.
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on Aug 26, 2021 13:34:10 GMT -5
Shaun Wade was a favorite of mine leading up to the draft, darn good move. Can play slot CB, outside and safety. Elite physical traits. Was in the first round mix while playing slot CB, struggled when playing outside. You plug him in inside in your sub packages and work on him on the outside. He would have been good as a 5th round pick, but another team pick him there and then said after a few weeks "naw we're good." It's off-putting even if I like the upside if he can find the right role. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 26, 2021 13:39:14 GMT -5
Shaun Wade was a favorite of mine leading up to the draft, darn good move. Can play slot CB, outside and safety. Elite physical traits. Was in the first round mix while playing slot CB, struggled when playing outside. You plug him in inside in your sub packages and work on him on the outside. He would have been good as a 5th round pick, but another team pick him there and then said after a few weeks "naw we're good." It's off-putting even if I like the upside if he can find the right role. Everything I'm seeing doesn't say that, they just have unreal CB depth. Yet I haven't verified that. Kinda like trading Michel , it wasn't because he sucked. I wanna know the cost. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 26, 2021 13:54:29 GMT -5
If Cam was better by this huge margin you start him, yet if it's even somewhat close you should pick Mac Jones. 35 out of 40, with 18 straight completions is not something Cam Newton can do. That's the accuracy and arm talent this offense and weapons need. That's is certainly your he just showed he's better moment, yet it likely won't matter. I'm not a huge fan of Cam so not advocating for him, but I do wonder if it would be too much of a rush to start Jones week 1. I haven't seen Jones play, but generally I would think sitting him the first game or two of the regular season then playing the 2nd half of game 3 would be a better way to ease him into life in the nfl. Just thinking back to the draft - I said it was risky to wait to get him at 15 as it happened, if he's a week 1 starting QB is was bat crap crazy. I don't, not with Cam and Bills crazy love for him. Now if he needed half a season to get ready, yet a game or two says he's basically ready now. Not that I don't think rookies should sit, I do. I just hate Newton and I don't think Mac Jones learns anything from watching him play. I don't really get that line of thinking. They got Mac Jones, so I say they read the draft perfectly. I'm sure they had a good idea who was going where and what teams were talking trade. You can go back and say the same thing about so many picks. I'd also say Mac Jones was crazy lucky to be drafted by the Patriots. You wouldn't want to be starting him week one if you didn't have a darn good OL, running game , defense and weapons for him. I love Trevor Lawrence, he doesn't look good on that Crappy Jaguars team. Burrows was darn good, yet that crappy OL got him injured. This Patriots team is one of the better ones for a rookie to actually start and really help him succeed. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 26, 2021 13:59:31 GMT -5
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Aug 26, 2021 16:20:16 GMT -5
Rapsheet says Pats are trading for Ravens CB Shaun Wade. Was pre-season potential 1st rounder who struggled and fell to the 5th. Kind of weird. Wonder if this means Jon Jones' practice injury is bad. It’s very weird… i want to say it has more to do with guys down the depth chart sucking.. think Williams, Jackson, Bryant etc… The reports on Williams have been surprisingly promising Strange move but they needed the depth imo. I was surprised when they didn’t draft a corner, Wade has some starter level tools though so let’s see if we can refine him. He’s more of a slot guy atm |
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Aug 26, 2021 16:22:36 GMT -5
So basically the ravens punted their 5th a couple years down the road and picked up a little extra scratch (the 7th). He’s been lockdown in the preseason so far, it’s just like you mentioned- the ravens kind of have unreal CB depth right now |
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 26, 2021 17:12:09 GMT -5
I absolutely do not understand the NFL as a business but whenever I see a trade like that I feel like it's admitting that we shouldn't have drafted him with a 1st round pick to begin with. Was that a question before the trade, though? He wasn’t a total bust but has clearly underperformed relative to where he was drafted. One year of a decent but not great running back was never going to fetch much of a return. Getting the equivalent of a fourth round pick isn’t bad at all. What this trade really shows is that they like JJ Taylor. I wouldn't draft a 1st round RB unless he's some kind of crazy talent like Saquon Barkley. What percentage of the best RBs in the league are 1st round picks? If they draft 2 RBs in the 4th and 6th round for what they got, chances are they find someone better than Michel. |
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Post by voiceofreason on Aug 27, 2021 3:16:32 GMT -5
If Cam was better by this huge margin you start him, yet if it's even somewhat close you should pick Mac Jones. 35 out of 40, with 18 straight completions is not something Cam Newton can do. That's the accuracy and arm talent this offense and weapons need. That's is certainly your he just showed he's better moment, yet it likely won't matter. I'm not a Cam hater but I doubt he does that against air let alone an NFL teams 1st D. I think a day like that for Mac along with the fact Cam still isn't vaccinated, which adds risk, along with the totality of camp performance might be enough for Bill to pull the trigger and start him day 1. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Aug 27, 2021 6:40:49 GMT -5
Was that a question before the trade, though? He wasn’t a total bust but has clearly underperformed relative to where he was drafted. One year of a decent but not great running back was never going to fetch much of a return. Getting the equivalent of a fourth round pick isn’t bad at all. What this trade really shows is that they like JJ Taylor. I wouldn't draft a 1st round RB unless he's some kind of crazy talent like Saquon Barkley. What percentage of the best RBs in the league are 1st round picks? If they draft 2 RBs in the 4th and 6th round for what they got, chances are they find someone better than Michel. I hate drafting a back in the first round period, but I’d rather take one towards the back of the round versus the top. If you are in a spot to draft a guy like Barkley it means you suck and drafting a running back that high when you suck is just plain dumb in my book. You want a cornerstone player that high and the shelf life of a running back is way too short. Drafting late, at least, like with Michel, you are already a really good team, looking for a piece to put you over the top. If you look at the Michel pick in a vacuum, he’s a bust of a first round pick. Bust may be extreme but he’s below what you’d want or expect. However, for the Pats, it was worth it as he was a major contributor to winning the Super Bowl. People want to say anyone could have done what he did behind that line but the reality is, he was the one there and he did it. We don’t know what some other dude may have done so it’s pointless to say shit like that. Would drafting someone else and getting another back have worked out the same or better? Maybe, but we know Sony really helped them win a SB which you take all day. Similar to why Malcolm Mitchell will always be a great draft pick for this franchise. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 27, 2021 11:05:56 GMT -5
Even with a Barkley type is it worth a top 5 pick? They could have taken Allen at QB, Nelson at guard as they took one in the high 2nd or Chubb at DE, then came back and took Chubb the RB in the 2nd.
RJP I don't see the value of taking a guy late first if you don't think you get value from his five year contract. If you feel he'll hold out and require a new deal that kills the value in my book. The value in late first versus second round is that 5th year.
I'm just not paying RBs crazy money, decent money okay, just not crazy money. They are just too easy to find darn good ones late in the draft. You just need to draft a bunch of them with late round picks. Bills mistake with Michel was not drafting guys in the years before he picked him. They went from 2011 when they picked Verren/Ridley, then 2014 White, then Michel in 2018. You can't go six years only picking a receiving RB, there should have been a couple RB picks mixed in.
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on Aug 27, 2021 11:19:32 GMT -5
If the RB is good, drafting in the back half of the 1st round gets you a "free" 5th year before a long-term commitment at a reasonable price. If Michel were more reliable his 5th year would have been worthwhile at $4.5M. Probably still not worth the opportunity cost, but it's something.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 27, 2021 12:16:30 GMT -5
What makes matter worse is look at the 2017 draft, it was completely loaded with RBs. Cook, Mixon, Kamara, Hunt, Conor, Mack, Jones and Chris Carson in the 7th. Those are all guys after the first round.
Pick one of those guys and you could have used that 2018 pick on weapons like WRs Sutton, Kirk, Miller, Washington and Clark or TEs like Gesicki or Goedert.
Let's not even debate how you traded the pick that was Kenny Golladay to move up for Garcia.
Bill has a long history of not taking enough weapons in the draft.
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Post by rjp313jr on Aug 27, 2021 12:20:00 GMT -5
Even with a Barkley type is it worth a top 5 pick? They could have taken Allen at QB, Nelson at guard as they took one in the high 2nd or Chubb at DE, then came back and took Chubb the RB in the 2nd. RJP I don't see the value of taking a guy late first if you don't think you get value from his five year contract. If you feel he'll hold out and require a new deal that kills the value in my book. The value in late first versus second round is that 5th year. I'm just not paying RBs crazy money, decent money okay, just not crazy money. They are just too easy to find darn good ones late in the draft. You just need to draft a bunch of them with late round picks. Bills mistake with Michel was not drafting guys in the years before he picked him. They went from 2011 when they picked Verren/Ridley, then 2014 White, then Michel in 2018. You can't go six years only picking a receiving RB, there should have been a couple RB picks mixed in. Yea, that’s why I started off saying I don’t like to draft a RB in the first round period. |
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