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Patriots 2021 Offseason Thread
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Post by rjp313jr on Aug 27, 2021 12:22:46 GMT -5
If the RB is good, drafting in the back half of the 1st round gets you a "free" 5th year before a long-term commitment at a reasonable price. If Michel were more reliable his 5th year would have been worthwhile at $4.5M. Probably still not worth the opportunity cost, but it's something. You’re trying to thread a small needle here…. If the back is really good or great he’s holding out for more money (assuming you don’t want to pay big bucks for an extension), if he’s not that good just solid, like Sony, you aren’t picking it up. So really there’s no point, unless you are someone willing to pay big money to a back.. I’m not |
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Post by voiceofreason on Aug 28, 2021 6:47:25 GMT -5
Hopefully Stevenson turns out to be an example of a great RB that isn't taken in the 1st round or even better both him and JJ.
I am a big fan of winning the line of scrimmage and it just so happens that drafting the big guys in the first rd has proven to be the safest and smartest direction for teams to go in. I know I have been repetitive in this regard but it is what has me excited about this team, winning the line of scrimmage. It means everything as the Chiefs proved last tear in the SB, their line was injured and Mahomes was running for his life. Every skill position on the field is affected by what happens on the line. Running the ball or not being able to or how much time players have to get open or defend against guys getting open. It is all dictated by line play.
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Post by rjp313jr on Aug 28, 2021 6:55:14 GMT -5
Warring had two other teams put in claims on him. Also missed today’s practice And released |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 28, 2021 8:14:18 GMT -5
No one brought it up with the Wade move, I've given it time. At this point it sure doesn't seem the Patriots are going to give Gilmore what he wants. You never save never, yet they normally do those things way before now. So are we calling his bluff or does he get traded?
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Post by rjp313jr on Aug 28, 2021 9:36:11 GMT -5
No one brought it up with the Wade move, I've given it time. At this point it sure doesn't seem the Patriots are going to give Gilmore what he wants. You never save never, yet they normally do those things way before now. So are we calling his bluff or does he get traded? I don’t think Wade has anything to do with Gilmore. They will work it out eventually, may miss first 3 weeks on PUP tho. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 28, 2021 13:45:20 GMT -5
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,862 
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Post by cdj on Aug 28, 2021 14:28:09 GMT -5
Kicker Joey Slye is a free agent now. Wonder if they take a flier on him with the position having some uncertainty
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,862
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Post by cdj on Aug 30, 2021 0:08:46 GMT -5
I’ve been saying it forever but I think they’re totally trading Winovich. He played late into the 4th tonight
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Post by rjp313jr on Aug 30, 2021 4:55:02 GMT -5
I’ve been saying it forever but I think they’re totally trading Winovich. He played late into the 4th tonight If they can get a 3rd for him then they probably should. If they can’t, then he holds a lot of value as a situational pass rusher. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Aug 30, 2021 5:23:20 GMT -5
Final rosters are going to be interesting. With Casserio and Flores out there, they’ve got to be wary of releasing someone, like Bolden or Cajuste with the idea of resigning them after putting guys like Harry and Jennings on IR…
Does the Hoyer situation from a couple years ago, make them roster him? Does Cam’s vax status mean they need to carry 3 QBs…
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,862
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Post by cdj on Aug 30, 2021 5:53:32 GMT -5
Final rosters are going to be interesting. With Casserio and Flores out there, they’ve got to be wary of releasing someone, like Bolden or Cajuste with the idea of resigning them after putting guys like Harry and Jennings on IR… Does the Hoyer situation from a couple years ago, make them roster him? Does Cam’s vax status mean they need to carry 3 QBs… Don’t think they risk Cajuste with the way the tackle position is around the league. He played some good ball this preseason. I’m looking at the outside corners who get released. Maybe you can find a team that wants to do a player for player deal and send us a CB for winovich |
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Post by voiceofreason on Aug 30, 2021 6:02:08 GMT -5
I’ve been saying it forever but I think they’re totally trading Winovich. He played late into the 4th tonight If they can get a 3rd for him then they probably should. If they can’t, then he holds a lot of value as a situational pass rusher. Definitely for a third, maybe for a 4th and 5th. I don't think BB is all that thrilled with his play but you are right about the situational pass rusher. But Uche has passed him in that regard so where is he on the depth chart. And yes I think the Pats keep 3 for that reason and it is also more prudent to have 3 especially when the cost is so low at the position overall. I am a bit baffled by what is going on with Gilmore, can't figure out why nothing has happened. Is BB looking at last season and thinking he can afford to trade him as he is confident in what they have? They have the money to give and he has been in camp. Is he still recovering from the injury, in which case he doesn't warrant a raise. It has been handled strangely to me so far. |
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Post by texs31 on Aug 30, 2021 6:19:26 GMT -5
I’ve been saying it forever but I think they’re totally trading Winovich. He played late into the 4th tonight In this case, it MIGHT be bc he's missed so much time and they are getting him reps. That being said, Bedard (among others) have had him on trade watch since late last year so . . . Meanwhile, Henry Anderson also played into the 4th but, unless I missed it, does not have that same potential explanation. And some younger DL have been playing well. His guarantee suggests that he won't be cut though. Interesting decisions indeed. |
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Post by voiceofreason on Aug 30, 2021 6:35:43 GMT -5
I’ve been saying it forever but I think they’re totally trading Winovich. He played late into the 4th tonight In this case, it MIGHT be bc he's missed so much time and they are getting him reps. That being said, Bedard (among others) have had him on trade watch since late last year so . . . Meanwhile, Henry Anderson also played into the 4th but, unless I missed it, does not have that same potential explanation. And some younger DL have been playing well. His guarantee suggests that he won't be cut though. Interesting decisions indeed. Those interesting decisions along with the trade of Sony and the possibility of more trades like that certainly point to a team with a very strong roster. Big difference from last season. I remember hearing someone on the team last year that was a veteran say that their were guys in the locker room that wouldn't be in the NFL next year. I remember that as it is something you would not normally hear from a player, especially in NE. It is a rather bold statement. Hopefully this all turns out to be the case and the Pats win 12 this year. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 30, 2021 12:04:32 GMT -5
If they can get a 3rd for him then they probably should. If they can’t, then he holds a lot of value as a situational pass rusher. Definitely for a third, maybe for a 4th and 5th. I don't think BB is all that thrilled with his play but you are right about the situational pass rusher. But Uche has passed him in that regard so where is he on the depth chart. And yes I think the Pats keep 3 for that reason and it is also more prudent to have 3 especially when the cost is so low at the position overall. I am a bit baffled by what is going on with Gilmore, can't figure out why nothing has happened. Is BB looking at last season and thinking he can afford to trade him as he is confident in what they have? They have the money to give and he has been in camp. Is he still recovering from the injury, in which case he doesn't warrant a raise. It has been handled strangely to me so far. I personally think Gilmore is doing a new age contract holdout, yet playing it off as an injury so he can't be fined. Reports said he'd be 100% well before the season starts, heck Gilmore almost two months ago said he could be ready for the start of the season if he had to be. DB coach won't talk about Gilmores injury, just praising "Coach Gilmore". What happens with Gilmore is really interesting because I certainly can't remember the last holdout that went into the season. Usually when they do what Gilmore wants it happens months ago, like with Brady, Gronk and Gilmore himself last year. I don't think Bill wants to trade him, yet he certainly doesn't seem to want to give him a raise either after Gilmore had a down year and won't practice to show he's a 100%. Fun stat of the day, Gilmore had 7 missed tackle in 11 games last year, he had 7 missed tackles combined over 32 games before that. I also think the narrative he's making just $7 million is crazy, as 60% of his contract wasn't base salary. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 30, 2021 12:12:25 GMT -5
I don't just trade Winovich to just trade him, you want extra good pass rushers. He's the perfect third pass rusher and it's football with tons of injuries. So it really depends where on the depth chart he is, has Perkins topped him? He wasn't that great as the #1 guy last year, yet he could be a monster as a #3.
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Post by rjp313jr on Aug 30, 2021 13:10:23 GMT -5
Gunner could be a surprise cut since he can’t catch and JJ can return punts… although Taylor makes me nervous with potential muffs…
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Post by rjp313jr on Aug 30, 2021 13:14:13 GMT -5
Maybe Bill and Gilmore have an agreement that he’s only going to play half the year on this contract and the Pats are keeping him on PUO so he doesn’t need to be fined. Doubtful, but…
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Post by philarhody on Aug 30, 2021 14:17:36 GMT -5
I don't just trade Winovich to just trade him, you want extra good pass rushers. He's the perfect third pass rusher and it's football with tons of injuries. So it really depends where on the depth chart he is, has Perkins topped him? He wasn't that great as the #1 guy last year, yet he could be a monster as a #3. The problem is, I don’t know if he is the 3rd option. He might be the 4th or 5th. You’ve got Uche and Judon, but Wise is also being paid and he is a 4-3 defensive end. Then you have Van Noy and Hightower, who can stunt inside or outside, something this defense has done really well when it has played at its best. Then you have Perkins, who is just a dog and was the top guy available on every board for like 30 picks because he smokes weed. I was surprised when the Patriots drafted Winovich, because he is kind of a one trick pony. He is quick and tenacious off the edge. At the time, I was excited, because I thought he was a late 1st talent off of PFF score and testing numbers, and I thought Harry was a reach where they got him (I was hoping New England knew something that we didn’t). I figured Winovich would balance out the draft due to the reach in the 1st. Now both those players and Joejuan Williams are busts, while Damien Harris and Jake Bailey and potentially the corpse of Yodny Cajuste are the real players from that draft. |
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Post by texs31 on Aug 30, 2021 14:25:41 GMT -5
Haven't seen any of the early parts of the pre-season games (ie the parts where Wise would be playing) but I've read he's playing DE in the 3-man front and DT in the 4-Man "sub package" (I'm guessing we don't need to remind that Pats play in that package the most so it's really a base even though the convention says otherwise).
Is this not true?
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 30, 2021 14:45:38 GMT -5
I don't just trade Winovich to just trade him, you want extra good pass rushers. He's the perfect third pass rusher and it's football with tons of injuries. So it really depends where on the depth chart he is, has Perkins topped him? He wasn't that great as the #1 guy last year, yet he could be a monster as a #3. The problem is, I don’t know if he is the 3rd option. He might be the 4th or 5th. You’ve got Uche and Judon, but Wise is also being paid and he is a 4-3 defensive end. Then you have Van Noy and Hightower, who can stunt inside or outside, something this defense has done really well when it has played at its best. Then you have Perkins, who is just a dog and was the top guy available on every board for like 30 picks because he smokes weed. I was surprised when the Patriots drafted Winovich, because he is kind of a one trick pony. He is quick and tenacious off the edge. At the time, I was excited, because I thought he was a late 1st talent off of PFF score and testing numbers, and I thought Harry was a reach where they got him (I was hoping New England knew something that we didn’t). I figured Winovich would balance out the draft due to the reach in the 1st. Now both those players and Joejuan Williams are busts, while Damien Harris and Jake Bailey and potentially the corpse of Yodny Cajuste are the real players from that draft. I don't think that's true, Wise gained a bunch of weight. He's no longer that guy we drafted, I see him as a DL guy now. He's basically your Winovich of the DL. Going to guess Wise and Barmore are your sub packages inside rushers. Given the LB situation, I'd expect Van Noy to be all over the place. So unless guys like Perkins have passed Winovich or I'm wrong about Van Noy. Winovich had 37 pressures last year, turning a few more of those into hits and sacks is all he really needs to be a great sub rusher and he's still likely better versus the run than Uche. I wouldn't be shocked, I'm just looking more at Perkins than Wise as the reason. Yet I actually expect Perkins to be more of a specialist against the run this year. |
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Post by voiceofreason on Aug 30, 2021 15:44:43 GMT -5
Definitely for a third, maybe for a 4th and 5th. I don't think BB is all that thrilled with his play but you are right about the situational pass rusher. But Uche has passed him in that regard so where is he on the depth chart. And yes I think the Pats keep 3 for that reason and it is also more prudent to have 3 especially when the cost is so low at the position overall. I am a bit baffled by what is going on with Gilmore, can't figure out why nothing has happened. Is BB looking at last season and thinking he can afford to trade him as he is confident in what they have? They have the money to give and he has been in camp. Is he still recovering from the injury, in which case he doesn't warrant a raise. It has been handled strangely to me so far. I personally think Gilmore is doing a new age contract holdout, yet playing it off as an injury so he can't be fined. Reports said he'd be 100% well before the season starts, heck Gilmore almost two months ago said he could be ready for the start of the season if he had to be. DB coach won't talk about Gilmores injury, just praising "Coach Gilmore". What happens with Gilmore is really interesting because I certainly can't remember the last holdout that went into the season. Usually when they do what Gilmore wants it happens months ago, like with Brady, Gronk and Gilmore himself last year. I don't think Bill wants to trade him, yet he certainly doesn't seem to want to give him a raise either after Gilmore had a down year and won't practice to show he's a 100%. Fun stat of the day, Gilmore had 7 missed tackle in 11 games last year, he had 7 missed tackles combined over 32 games before that. I also think the narrative he's making just $7 million is crazy, as 60% of his contract wasn't base salary. So true on a bunch of fronts. His health, his play last year, everything that is going on so far this year. Am I the only one who agrees with you on the deserved raise thing. Everyone is talking about him deserving it and I have been "like no he doesn't" all along I have just kept it to myself. Good call on the new age hold out or as rjp suggested maybe he has some kind of thing going with BB because none of this makes sense. He had a down year, was injured, he got a raise last year and didn't really earn it and he was paid as a top 5 CB at the time of the signing. To say he is just earning 7 million this year is disingenuous when he has been paid what 60 million over the past 4 years. No I didn't go and analyze it as it is somewhat confusing but the bottom line is he been paid well and they gave him extra last year. |
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,862
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Post by cdj on Aug 30, 2021 17:19:25 GMT -5
Adrian Colbert, Bill Murray, and Tre Nixon got the choppity chop so far
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Post by philarhody on Aug 30, 2021 17:47:35 GMT -5
Adrian Colbert, Bill Murray, and Tre Nixon got the choppity chop so far If he doesn’t get claimed, I wouldn’t be shocked if Murray makes the team next year. He flashed pretty consistently this year. |
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Post by philarhody on Aug 30, 2021 17:50:51 GMT -5
Haven't seen any of the early parts of the pre-season games (ie the parts where Wise would be playing) but I've read he's playing DE in the 3-man front and DT in the 4-Man "sub package" (I'm guessing we don't need to remind that Pats play in that package the most so it's really a base even though the convention says otherwise). Is this not true? Yeah, you might be right. I figured they might use him as a strong side DE on sub packages with two of Barmore/Godchaux/Guy/Davis/Cowart inside. |
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