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Post by johnsilver52 on Jan 7, 2021 14:36:20 GMT -5
Not "money aside." Every year is another year a pitcher can blow his arm out. The reason to go back is if the market is depressed and you're not getting the money you are worth. I believe he was referencing the events that took place yesterday without turning this into a political discussion. Are some expecting a few fans to rush the field if the team doesn't manage to win, or management doesn't "buy" the guy some want?
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Post by vermontsox1 on Jan 7, 2021 15:52:15 GMT -5
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Post by Soxfansince1971 on Jan 7, 2021 16:27:03 GMT -5
Agreed, Japan and Korea stats absolutely do not translate to the USA. Japanese great Matsuzaka cost $102 million (with posting fee) for 2 ok years out of six. IMO $102 million could have gotten better production and more consistency or even a couple better pitchers than Matsuzaka. That much bought a lot more 13 years ago: 2007 - 2012 W/L. 50 - 37 ERA. 4.52 IN. 111.3 per year SO. 101.5 per year BB. 53.5 per year WHIP. 1.42 per year Signing a MLB player you are using an apples to apples comparison, and a shorter contract is obviously less risk of having pay a players way out of town. In fairness, Daisuke was never the same after he got injured in spring training 2009. Even it never felt like he was as good as his stats looked in 2008, he was still pretty effective in 2008 and he was a contributor in 2007. He soaked up a lot of innings that year. Schilling was toward the end of the line that season and didn't have a lot of innings that season. Daisuke was pretty valuable. IIRC, Daisuke was told not to pitch in the World Cup during Spring training before he had properly built up his arm strength, but he did and treated it as if it were the World Series, and he got injured and that was the end of his effectiveness. I think Sugano could have been as effective if not more effective than Odorizzi. I mean Koji, as a closer, certainly pitched well in the US, and guys like Tanaka, while not as dominating, have been quite effective. I think with Sugano there was the possibility of pitching extremely well. Doesn't matter now though. For upside, I'd just as soon the Sox sign Kluber and go cheaper on a Chris Archer type (I'd like Happ) or whoever to fill out the rotation and hopefully make a couple of wise choices in the pen. Go with Arroyo and hope Duran is ready sooner than later, and sign some really cheap reinforcements. I'd like Brock Holt and perhaps Almora to help fill in the gaps. Even Matsuzka’s 2 good years weren’t that good. 2007 was 15-12 with a 4.40 ERA (for context Ryan Weber had a 4.40 ERA in 2020), and yes he pitched 204 2/3 innings which was valuable, but again 4.40 does not make him exactly an ace. In 2008 Matsuzaka was 18-3, but he had the majority of his starts last only 5 and 5 1/3 inning games, and he lead the AL with 94 BB. His bullpen had a lot to do with his ERA being only 2.90 as he constantly left numerous runners on base for the bullpen to wiggle out of.His early game run support had the biggest effect on the 18-3 record as he was rarely around for the 7th, 8th, or 9th innings. Do not get me wrong in that he did have value, but certainly not $102 million for all the hype. Frankly it could be argued that Hideki Okajima may have been more valuable in the 2007 WS push than Matsuzaka. 2007 - IN 69.0 - ERA 2.22 - H 50 - BB 17 - SO 63 - WHIP 0.971 !!
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Post by electricityverdugo99 on Jan 7, 2021 17:21:46 GMT -5
Ohh well.
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radiohix
Veteran
'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
Posts: 6,425
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Post by radiohix on Jan 7, 2021 17:23:01 GMT -5
Sugano San is a man of his words. You got to respect that.
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Post by sarasoxer on Jan 7, 2021 17:40:48 GMT -5
The fact that the deadline is in 4 hours and we haven't heard anything yet makes me think he's going back to Japan. Money aside, can you blame him? The sushi is better?
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Post by wcsoxfan on Jan 7, 2021 17:42:06 GMT -5
Sugano San is a man of his words. You got to respect that. That's understandable. If teams were only offering ~3/30, which was speculated, then getting 8mil for next year with ~32mil guaranteed (if he stays in Japan all 4 years) to not move across the ocean, and be close to friends and family, seem like the better deal. We can go through all of this again next year when he has no posting fee attached.
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Post by sarasoxer on Jan 7, 2021 18:03:44 GMT -5
Sugano San is a man of his words. You got to respect that. That's understandable. If teams were only offering ~3/30, which was speculated, then getting 8mil for next year with ~32mil guaranteed (if he stays in Japan all 4 years) to not move across the ocean, and be close to friends and family, seem like the better deal. We can go through all of this again next year when he has no posting fee attached. Do we know that is what mlb teams were offering...3/30? Returning to the Giants might make sense if the U.S. team offers were somewhat comparable. I could understand leaving family and culture could be a drag unless he were financially induced. OTOH, this was his opportunity to prove himself on the highest stage. Yup, if he has another good year in Japan, avoids injury, and there is then no posting fee, it could work to mutual benefit...clubs could then give Sugano a sweetener especially given that revenues would likely return to normalcy by then.
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Post by bellhorndingers21 on Jan 7, 2021 18:54:49 GMT -5
Not "money aside." Every year is another year a pitcher can blow his arm out. The reason to go back is if the market is depressed and you're not getting the money you are worth. I believe he was referencing the events that took place yesterday without turning this into a political discussion. I was going off of past reports that he had concerns about America's current Covid status, but yea, that too
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Post by soxfaninnj on Jan 7, 2021 21:47:50 GMT -5
Sugano got 4/40, a lot less than the 54 he was supposedly looking for. Wonder what the Sox actually offered him.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 14,232
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Post by cdj on Jan 7, 2021 22:31:15 GMT -5
If Yomiuri is giving him a deal with 3 opt outs I can absolutely see him returning until covid is resolved Saw that coming. Unless you’re gonna get blown away by an offer there really no point in coming over here right now when you can make great money at home. We’ve got a decent little crap storm going on over here lol, I know I wouldn’t subject myself to it if I was in his shoes
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Post by electricityverdugo99 on Jan 8, 2021 9:10:52 GMT -5
Sugano got 4/40, a lot less than the 54 he was supposedly looking for. Wonder what the Sox actually offered him. Yeah can't blame the Sox for walking away at 4 years at around 60 million. I'm sure they were in 12 per year for maybe 2 or 3 years. Bloom is going to need some foresight on picking out the right free agent one or two starting free agent pitchers.
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