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Post by unitspin on Jan 16, 2021 20:06:44 GMT -5
Ahahaha. It's funny watching the same ppl that argued with me last year that perez was not a valuable pitcher claiming his signing is good.
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Post by manfred on Jan 16, 2021 20:26:45 GMT -5
I like Martin Perez and think he is a serviceable pitcher. Probably their most dependable 2020 starter. This move is at least "PlanD". They missed on Sugano, Kluber, and most likely now realize Odorizzi is signing elsewhere. Four months ago they declined Perez's option and all we heard (in this very thread) was what a smart move that was. Now they resign him ($1.8M cheaper) and that constitutes a great move? They now have the same rotation as last season which produced a last place finish. Its not the same rotation as last year if you factor in Erod to start the year and then Sale come June or July. They'll more than likely sign another starter too. This is true but those guys will have some uncertainty. I have a broader question, and I don’t know if anyone has seen anything but given that ERod missed a full year — and really that everyone threw relatively few innings — does anyone know if that will create innings limits or different treatment? I just wonder if going from 200 innings to 0 innings and back requires any caution. Has anyone seen anything about this, or will pitchers just be go as normal (if they get a normal spring)?
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Post by slam761 on Jan 16, 2021 20:27:58 GMT -5
Ahahaha. It's funny watching the same ppl that argued with me last year that perez was not a valuable pitcher claiming his signing is good. You can absolutely think he's not a very valuable pitcher while still thinking it's a decent signing for so little money. I don't know why you think there's any conflict there.
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Post by greenmonster on Jan 16, 2021 20:44:47 GMT -5
I think most every starter has reason for reduced innings except maybe Perez Sale: Will start several weeks after everyone else and will be babied throughout the season Edro: Will most likely proceed very cautiously. Never pitched deep in games even when healthy Eovaldi: Been very solid for the Sox but has had TWO TJ's Houck/Pivetta: Young pitchers generally build up inning totals year over year. Perez: Dependable underrated starter
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Post by TheCerebral1 on Jan 16, 2021 21:16:15 GMT -5
It's a decent move, considering that you're looking for innings while Sale and Rodriguez work back into form. This was always the type of move that I expected. I really would like to snag Paxton.
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Post by TheCerebral1 on Jan 16, 2021 21:18:27 GMT -5
I think that the Red Sox still need another starter for sure. Whether that's Odorizzi or another lefty like Paxton.
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Post by Soxfansince1971 on Jan 16, 2021 21:43:31 GMT -5
It's a decent move, considering that you're looking for innings while Sale and Rodriguez work back into form. This was always the type of move that I expected. I really would like to snag Paxton. I wrote on a different thread that I would not be surprised if the Red Sox resign Martin Perez about 2 hours before they did it as the Red Sox need a pitcher that does not have health issues. I watched every game last year and although Perez’s games included a few too many walks, he usually kept the RS in the game (the only blow outs were his first and last starts of the year, which were both at home against Baltimore). The 10 starts in between his ERA was 3.57, which is solid. The RS need someone who has a history of making the start every 5 days through the entire season which Perez has done most recently with the Red Sox and Twins. With this signing and the other additions Bloom has made (and will make) hopefully the days of Godley, Kickham, Hall, Leyer, Hart, ….. are all behind.
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Post by Soxfansince1971 on Jan 16, 2021 22:02:43 GMT -5
It's a decent move, considering that you're looking for innings while Sale and Rodriguez work back into form. This was always the type of move that I expected. I really would like to snag Paxton. I wrote on a different thread that I would not be surprised if the Red Sox resign Martin Perez about 2 hours before they did it as the Red Sox need a pitcher that does not have health issues. I watched every game last year and although Perez’s games included a few too many walks, he usually kept the RS in the game (the only blow outs were his first and last starts of the year, which were both at home against Baltimore). The 10 starts in between his ERA was 3.57, which is solid. The RS need someone who has a history of making the start every 5 days through the entire season which Perez has done most recently with the Red Sox and Twins. With this signing and the other additions Bloom has made (and will make) hopefully the days of Godley, Kickham, Hall, Leyer, Hart, ….. are all behind. The last start of the year Roenicki left Perez in too long and blew up his ERA from 3.88 to 4.50.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jan 16, 2021 23:56:19 GMT -5
It's funny. I was so looking forward to seeing the Sox sign Corey Kluber this weekend with the hopes that if he was completely healthy that he could rebound to being the true ace that he had been.
Instead he goes to the Yankees and the Sox re-sign mediocre Martin Perez, a pitcher I was fine with them letting go so they can upgrade.
I get that Martin Perez is an improvement on the drek they had most of last year, but as it stands as of right now, they have not improved their rotation at all and none of the alternatives left on the board are too inspiring.
Honestly, Perez looked great last year because everybody else was so bad. His ERA was 4.5 and his FIP was 4.88. He walks too many guys for a pitcher who doesn't strike out that many. He's truly a mediocre pitcher, better than replacement level most of the time, but not so good. So the rotation is E-Rod, Eovaldi, Perez, Pivetta, and Andriese (one great month and now 31 years old. Woohoo). Eventually Sale comes back but for this team to be competitive they'll need him to come back pitching like an ace, which is a lot to ask. And yes, we know Houck had 3 strong starts and he'll pitch at some point in the rotation.
I guess you can say that I'm disappointed. I saw this being an offseason in which the Sox could upgrade two rotation spots, and they'll be fortunate to upgrade one.
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Post by ematz1423 on Jan 17, 2021 0:10:06 GMT -5
It's funny. I was so looking forward to seeing the Sox sign Corey Kluber this weekend with the hopes that if he was completely healthy that he could rebound to being the true ace that he had been. Instead he goes to the Yankees and the Sox re-sign mediocre Martin Perez, a pitcher I was fine with them letting go so they can upgrade. I get that Martin Perez is an improvement on the drek they had most of last year, but as it stands as of right now, they have not improved their rotation at all and none of the alternatives left on the board are too inspiring. Honestly, Perez looked great last year because everybody else was so bad. His ERA was 4.5 and his FIP was 4.88. He walks too many guys for a pitcher who doesn't strike out that many. He's truly a mediocre pitcher, better than replacement level most of the time, but not so good. So the rotation is E-Rod, Eovaldi, Perez, Pivetta, and Andriese (one great month and now 31 years old. Woohoo). Eventually Sale comes back but for this team to be competitive they'll need him to come back pitching like an ace, which is a lot to ask. And yes, we know Houck had 3 strong starts and he'll pitch at some point in the rotation. I guess you can say that I'm disappointed. I saw this being an offseason in which the Sox could upgrade two rotation spots, and they'll be fortunate to upgrade one. Adding Erod already improves the rotation. They likely will sign one more starter. Thats already a better rotation from last year. Also Sale will be back to help as well at some point.
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Post by Soxfansince1971 on Jan 17, 2021 0:28:47 GMT -5
It's funny. I was so looking forward to seeing the Sox sign Corey Kluber this weekend with the hopes that if he was completely healthy that he could rebound to being the true ace that he had been. Instead he goes to the Yankees and the Sox re-sign mediocre Martin Perez, a pitcher I was fine with them letting go so they can upgrade. I get that Martin Perez is an improvement on the drek they had most of last year, but as it stands as of right now, they have not improved their rotation at all and none of the alternatives left on the board are too inspiring. Honestly, Perez looked great last year because everybody else was so bad. His ERA was 4.5 and his FIP was 4.88. He walks too many guys for a pitcher who doesn't strike out that many. He's truly a mediocre pitcher, better than replacement level most of the time, but not so good. So the rotation is E-Rod, Eovaldi, Perez, Pivetta, and Andriese (one great month and now 31 years old. Woohoo). Eventually Sale comes back but for this team to be competitive they'll need him to come back pitching like an ace, which is a lot to ask. And yes, we know Houck had 3 strong starts and he'll pitch at some point in the rotation. I guess you can say that I'm disappointed. I saw this being an offseason in which the Sox could upgrade two rotation spots, and they'll be fortunate to upgrade one. 2004 (3 years) 2007 (6 years) 2013 (5 years) 2018 (2 years so far). Six franchises have zero WS wins. If memory serves me 21 of 30 have fewer WS wins than the RS have in the last 16 years. I have been a RS fan for 49 years, and the first 33 were with no WS! When did RS fans get so spoiled. I do not believe Henry would devalue his asset (the Red Sox) by turning them into a small market team. Let 2021 play out. It will be better than last year. I looked at the rosters from the 4 WS teams and there was about 80 percent turnover from WS to WS. It is health for the team and expected!
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jan 17, 2021 0:40:43 GMT -5
Martin Perez was available to everyone else also. But this signing is supposed to show that.....I don't really know what it shows. We need starting pitching, that is what it shows.
I guess the disappointing thing is, and what seems to get lost in translation around here, and apparently in MLB in general....You can actually sign players for more than 1 year (and whatever option). You can also pay premiums for players.
Sorry for being so snarky, but really, what we have is player salary suppression going on. Maybe that is CoVid, or maybe it is new bargaining agreement...whatever. Trevor Bauer is available and if we aren't having discussions with his agent, then that is club managerial malpractice.
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Post by Soxfansince1971 on Jan 17, 2021 0:52:16 GMT -5
Martin Perez was available to everyone else also. But this signing is supposed to show that.....I don't really know what it shows. We need starting pitching, that is what it shows. I guess the disappointing thing is, and what seems to get lost in translation around here, and apparently in MLB in general....You can actually sign players for more than 1 year (and whatever option). You can also pay premiums for players. Sorry for being so snarky, but really, what we have is player salary suppression going on. Maybe that is CoVid, or maybe it is new bargaining agreement...whatever. Trevor Bauer is available and if we aren't having discussions with his agent, then that is club managerial malpractice. Maybe you can tell each team what their revenue stream will be for next year and how many fans will be in the park, so the GMs will know how much they can spend. (NOT A RHETORICAL QUESTION - How much can each GM spend? If you can not answer then maybe the GMs are on strict spending limits. The teams cannot print money like the government !!!!!
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jan 17, 2021 1:02:48 GMT -5
Martin Perez was available to everyone else also. But this signing is supposed to show that.....I don't really know what it shows. We need starting pitching, that is what it shows. I guess the disappointing thing is, and what seems to get lost in translation around here, and apparently in MLB in general....You can actually sign players for more than 1 year (and whatever option). You can also pay premiums for players. Sorry for being so snarky, but really, what we have is player salary suppression going on. Maybe that is CoVid, or maybe it is new bargaining agreement...whatever. Trevor Bauer is available and if we aren't having discussions with his agent, then that is club managerial malpractice. Maybe you can tell each team what their revenue stream will be for next year and how many fans will be in the park, so the GMs will know how much they can spend. (NOT A RHETORICAL QUESTION - How much can each GM spend? If you can not answer then maybe the GMs are on strict spending limits. The teams cannot print money like the government !!!!! maybe they are on spending limits. I can't tell them. I am sure they have people that can approximate it fairly closely. However, this isn't just this offseason, it has been going on now for the last 3-5 years. The franchises are increasing in value. They are closing Minor Leagues franchises. And we have a generation of GM's that are rooted in math. And what of all the arguments we heard that gate was no longer as important to a team's / leagues profits. I argued against it, but was told that league TV revenue made the gate less important. There is a sickness in this league and the people that run it, that goes beyond the loss of stadium revenues. They all want to operate as small market teams. The Sox, given their franchise, market, revenue have a fiduciary responsibility to be at or near the tax threshold every year to help the overall health of the industry. I have no doubt they will, but this bargain bin hunting is trying my patience, and i am not the only one. We need some stud pitching, period.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jan 17, 2021 1:14:17 GMT -5
This signing is fine if he's the number 5 and they're still going to sign an Odorizzi or Walker type for the middle of the rotation. As I said on Twitter, the realistic best case scenario has always been a mid-rotation guy and a back end guy. Pérez is fine if he's the latter.
Just a point of information, they cut his CBT hit from 6.35M if they picked up the option ($6.85M salary - $500k for buyout not paid) to $5M (4.5M salary plus $500k buyout).
If this is it, then that's obviously disappointing.
We're not really going to be able to evaluate until we know his role.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jan 17, 2021 1:29:46 GMT -5
This signing is fine if he's the number 5 and they're still going to sign an Odorizzi or Walker type for the middle of the rotation. As I said on Twitter, the realistic best case scenario has always been a mid-rotation guy and a back end guy. Pérez is fine if he's the latter. Just a point of information, they cut his CBT hit from 6.35M if they picked up the option ($6.85M salary - $500k for buyout not paid) to $5M (4.5M salary plus $500k buyout). If this is it, then that's obviously disappointing. We're not really going to be able to evaluate until we know his role. Why is this the realistic best case scenario ? You don't think we should be signing Bauer ? Or do you think his asking price will be too much ? I know Bauer is a head case, but I also know he is a helluva pitcher, who would likely upgrade our rotation for the next 5 years. He is helluva competitor. Unless I am mistaken, we have reset the tax penalty. I guess I need to understand why it is we have to avoid large ticket items. Fenway Sports has been great owners, but they have also been given alot also. The Betts sale should not be a continuing business practice. We need to flex our financial muscles.
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Post by wcsoxfan on Jan 17, 2021 3:49:41 GMT -5
This signing is fine if he's the number 5 and they're still going to sign an Odorizzi or Walker type for the middle of the rotation. As I said on Twitter, the realistic best case scenario has always been a mid-rotation guy and a back end guy. Pérez is fine if he's the latter. Just a point of information, they cut his CBT hit from 6.35M if they picked up the option ($6.85M salary - $500k for buyout not paid) to $5M (4.5M salary plus $500k buyout). If this is it, then that's obviously disappointing. We're not really going to be able to evaluate until we know his role. Why is this the realistic best case scenario ? You don't think we should be signing Bauer ? Or do you think his asking price will be too much ? I know Bauer is a head case, but I also know he is a helluva pitcher, who would likely upgrade our rotation for the next 5 years. He is helluva competitor. Unless I am mistaken, we have reset the tax penalty. I guess I need to understand why it is we have to avoid large ticket items. Fenway Sports has been great owners, but they have also been given alot also. The Betts sale should not be a continuing business practice. We need to flex our financial muscles. The Red Sox could have signed 2 pitchers in the top-to-mid rotation category, but they would have been left with no money for CF, 2B, 1B and RP. The problem with the Red Sox flexing their financial muscles this year is that it would still leave them on the outside of the top tier of teams. Instead, they're looking to fill holes with players who may contribute in 2022/2023 while saving draft picks/prospects and remaining under the tax threshold. Bloom's interest with BauerKluber was likely in signing him at a lower rate with an option for 2022, but BauerKluber receiving 11m for 1 year from a team planning to compete for the world series, while he rebuilds his value, made far more sense for him. We can certainly sign Kluber, or possibly Bauer, for 2022. It sucks being 'competitive' without trying to win, but it is what it is. Can't dig ourselves out of the hole in one offseason.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jan 17, 2021 4:35:52 GMT -5
The Red Sox could have signed 2 pitchers in the top-to-mid rotation category, but they would have been left with no money left for CF, 2B, 1B and RP. The problem with the Red Sox flexing their financial muscles this year is that it would still leave them on the outside of the top tier of teams. Instead, they're looking to fill holes with players who may contribute in 2022/2023 while saving draft picks/prospects and remaining under the tax threshold. Bloom's interest with Bauer was likely in signing him at a lower rate with an option for 2022, but Bauer getting 11m for 1 year on a team planning to compete for the world series, while he rebuilds his value, made far more sense for him. But we certainly could get Bauer next year. It sucks being 'competitive' without trying to win, but it is what it is. Can't dig ourselves out of the hole in one offseason. That is fair, thanks for responding. But...every team has holes. The strength in ML is in the NL. The AL is pretty wide open. The MFY aren't any better at this point. I am less worried about position players as our offense has remained top tier for a number of years. The 2013 team was indicative of a team where lightening can strike That being said, signing some pitching this year is setting yourself up for the years you are talking about. I don't think you can just say...wait until 2022 and think the plan will come together any easier. Other teams will also be in play for good pitchers services then. We are operating on the margain's here. It is frustrating to see and I am not convinced it is either necessary or good mgt. Also, I think you were confusing Bauer with Kluber. I have not read where Bauer has signed yet.
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Post by iakovos11 on Jan 17, 2021 8:35:51 GMT -5
This signing is fine if he's the number 5 and they're still going to sign an Odorizzi or Walker type for the middle of the rotation. As I said on Twitter, the realistic best case scenario has always been a mid-rotation guy and a back end guy. Pérez is fine if he's the latter. Just a point of information, they cut his CBT hit from 6.35M if they picked up the option ($6.85M salary - $500k for buyout not paid) to $5M (4.5M salary plus $500k buyout). If this is it, then that's obviously disappointing. We're not really going to be able to evaluate until we know his role. Why is this the realistic best case scenario ? You don't think we should be signing Bauer ? Or do you think his asking price will be too much ? I know Bauer is a head case, but I also know he is a helluva pitcher, who would likely upgrade our rotation for the next 5 years. He is helluva competitor. Unless I am mistaken, we have reset the tax penalty. I guess I need to understand why it is we have to avoid large ticket items. Fenway Sports has been great owners, but they have also been given alot also. The Betts sale should not be a continuing business practice. We need to flex our financial muscles.
Bauer would cost the Sox the #40 in the draft. He's also said he wants to sign 1-year contracts only (I believe this was the pandemic). Maybe he could be enticed with a long term contract, but I assume that would require another Price type deal - no thanks (for Bauer).
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Post by Oregon Norm on Jan 17, 2021 9:52:33 GMT -5
...Maybe you can tell each team what their revenue stream will be for next year and how many fans will be in the park, so the GMs will know how much they can spend. (NOT A RHETORICAL QUESTION - How much can each GM spend? If you can not answer then maybe the GMs are on strict spending limits. The teams cannot print money like the government !!!!! This is the issue that few on the board seem willing to bring up. There are reports of $100 million losses for some teams. That's a tough way to run a business. There is still enormous uncertainty given the emergence of more infectious strains of the virus. This is a serious game of risk/reward. It's not surprising at all that the reigns are being pulled in, that there's so much caution.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jan 17, 2021 10:30:19 GMT -5
Bauer would cost the Sox the #40 in the draft. He's also said he wants to sign 1-year contracts only (I believe this was the pandemic). Maybe he could be enticed with a long term contract, but I assume that would require another Price type deal - no thanks (for Bauer).
Bauer had an ERA+ last year of 276. I think the 1 yr contract thing has been re-evaluated by him, but that is less of an issue. It is less about the player (Bauer) than the overall philosophy. If you aren't going to be willing to pay premiums on pitching, then you better be way above average in your development. The #40 pick in the draft should not be a impediment to signing any player, IMO.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jan 17, 2021 12:27:43 GMT -5
It's funny. I was so looking forward to seeing the Sox sign Corey Kluber this weekend with the hopes that if he was completely healthy that he could rebound to being the true ace that he had been. Instead he goes to the Yankees and the Sox re-sign mediocre Martin Perez, a pitcher I was fine with them letting go so they can upgrade. I get that Martin Perez is an improvement on the drek they had most of last year, but as it stands as of right now, they have not improved their rotation at all and none of the alternatives left on the board are too inspiring. Honestly, Perez looked great last year because everybody else was so bad. His ERA was 4.5 and his FIP was 4.88. He walks too many guys for a pitcher who doesn't strike out that many. He's truly a mediocre pitcher, better than replacement level most of the time, but not so good. So the rotation is E-Rod, Eovaldi, Perez, Pivetta, and Andriese (one great month and now 31 years old. Woohoo). Eventually Sale comes back but for this team to be competitive they'll need him to come back pitching like an ace, which is a lot to ask. And yes, we know Houck had 3 strong starts and he'll pitch at some point in the rotation. I guess you can say that I'm disappointed. I saw this being an offseason in which the Sox could upgrade two rotation spots, and they'll be fortunate to upgrade one. 2004 (3 years) 2007 (6 years) 2013 (5 years) 2018 (2 years so far). Six franchises have zero WS wins. If memory serves me 21 of 30 have fewer WS wins than the RS have in the last 16 years. I have been a RS fan for 49 years, and the first 33 were with no WS! When did RS fans get so spoiled. I do not believe Henry would devalue his asset (the Red Sox) by turning them into a small market team. Let 2021 play out. It will be better than last year. I looked at the rosters from the 4 WS teams and there was about 80 percent turnover from WS to WS. It is health for the team and expected! I've been a fan for 40 years, saw the end of the Fisk/Lynn era, so I go back a long ways too, although you date backlonger to the Tony C/Yaz Billy C driven feud days. I've gone 24 years waiting and waiting, and lived through that miserable ending of the 1986 World Series. I'm not some kid who jumped on the 2004 bandwagon, thinks the Championships are my birthright, and is upset that my team might have to wait a few years to win. It's nothing about being spoiled. It's about being disappointed that Bloom, armed with 25 million or so to really improve the team has been unable to secure any of the most impactful players that were on the market and had to settle for the same mediocrity that we saw last year. I'm really good with a "rebuilding time", if they're truly growing an impact core, but I'm quite aware that the minor league hopefuls they have now more closely resemble what they had in the late aughts (the Bowdens/Mastersons/Kalishes/Lars Andersons of the world) than what they had in the mid aughts (when Pedroia, Lester, Ellsbury, Buchholz, Hanley, etc) were in the pipeline or the mid mid-teens when Mookie, Devers, JBJ, Vazquez, Bogaerts, Benitendi, etc. were in the system. It's going to take awhile for them to rebuild they system - the most important acquisition they will make is that #4 in the draft. Ok. But I felt they had a chance to make themselves reasonably competitive without compromising the future, which is why I would never advocate giving up that 40th pick for the talent that's out there this offseason nor trade somebody like a Casas who is the jewel in their system. But I don't see how they drastically improve this team given what's left on the market (a bunch of mid tier players of less - I can see them signing Semien or Hernandez, Odorizzi or Shoemaker, Colome, and Almora, plus dealing away Benintendi for a young OF and young pitcher). I would like to see the Sox build something to last and I'd like to see them win the World Series again in my lifetime. I've waited decades and I've been blessed with the evening of the law of averages (5 championships in 15 World Series followed by an 0-85, followed by 4 championships in 15 seasons). I'm well aware that the next one, even if Bloom does everything right, could be another 30 plus years. You can never take for granted that the next Championship is right around the corner or that you have decades left to see another one. Understand I have no desire to see Bloom take shortcuts that short circuit the vision of long-term dominance. The Dodgers, Braves, and Yankees have shown that if you do things correctly, you can compete year after year, even if the luck goes against you, as the Dodgers had just 1 Championship the past 8 dominating years, although they have chances for more, the Yankees have been above .500 for 28 straight seasons with no big dip in sight, and had tremendous luck (1996-2000 before it ran out in Game 7 of 2001 and have only won once since, and zero luck the past decade), and the Braves of course won 14 division titles in a row with only a single championship to show for it, so I'll always appreciate the championships I lived to see, but also am quite aware that the next one is never a guarantee, and that the best way to do it is to have many years of being great so that the law of averages can finally work to your advantage. And the winning in the past....well it never stops me from wanting to see the next one!
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jan 17, 2021 12:38:33 GMT -5
The Red Sox could have signed 2 pitchers in the top-to-mid rotation category, but they would have been left with no money left for CF, 2B, 1B and RP. The problem with the Red Sox flexing their financial muscles this year is that it would still leave them on the outside of the top tier of teams. Instead, they're looking to fill holes with players who may contribute in 2022/2023 while saving draft picks/prospects and remaining under the tax threshold. Bloom's interest with Bauer was likely in signing him at a lower rate with an option for 2022, but Bauer getting 11m for 1 year on a team planning to compete for the world series, while he rebuilds his value, made far more sense for him. But we certainly could get Bauer next year. It sucks being 'competitive' without trying to win, but it is what it is. Can't dig ourselves out of the hole in one offseason. That is fair, thanks for responding. But...every team has holes. The strength in ML is in the NL. The AL is pretty wide open. The MFY aren't any better at this point. I am less worried about position players as our offense has remained top tier for a number of years. The 2013 team was indicative of a team where lightening can strike That being said, signing some pitching this year is setting yourself up for the years you are talking about. I don't think you can just say...wait until 2022 and think the plan will come together any easier. Other teams will also be in play for good pitchers services then. We are operating on the margain's here. It is frustrating to see and I am not convinced it is either necessary or good mgt. Also, I think you were confusing Bauer with Kluber. I have not read where Bauer has signed yet. Jerry, I'm disappointed the Sox did wind up with Kim, Sugano, or Kluber (not meant as a shot at Bloom), but I will not be disappointed when Bauer signs elsewhere. Last I heard, Bauer wants more than $30 million annually. Let's see - the Sox budget is about $25 million. They still need bullpen help, a 2b, and another starting OF, and some bench help at 1b/OF. Not only do you not have the money to improve other positions in serious need of an upgrade, but you lose a badly needed 40th pick - it was around that area that the Sox selected JBJ, so you can definitely have value at that spot as you're toward the top of the 2nd round. The Red Sox need to pick very well this draft. Must succeed with their 4th pick and if they want to jumpstart that system, hitting well with the talent available at the 40th pick is important. The Sox have more money in the draft this year so they could conceivably pick two extremely talented players in those spots instead of taking one considered a lesser draftee to have the money to pay for a more talented draftee like they've done. If the Sox are to be that long-term sustaining team that Bloom references then you will need to hit on those picks. In some cases giving up a 40th pick is fine, like if Bauer is the difference between being a serious competitor and not being one, but getting just Bauer and not improving the rest of the team won't be enough. Plus Bauer is a really good pitcher, but that's it. He's not a perennial Cy Young award contender. He won in a dramatically shortened and doesn't have the track record like a Chris Sale had when they got him, or even a David Price when he signed. He's definitely not a Roger Clemens/Pedro Martinez generational pitcher. I don't think he's as good a pitcher as Gerit Cole is. If he signs a one year deal this season and pitches well and the Sox suddenly find themselves on the cusp of serious contention next season and he goes to free agency and the Sox are willing to go over the limit (if that still exists and they actually play in 2022), then yeah, sure I'd like to see the Sox go after Bauer, as he wouldn't come attached to a draft pick.
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Post by wcsoxfan on Jan 17, 2021 12:58:07 GMT -5
The Red Sox could have signed 2 pitchers in the top-to-mid rotation category, but they would have been left with no money left for CF, 2B, 1B and RP. The problem with the Red Sox flexing their financial muscles this year is that it would still leave them on the outside of the top tier of teams. Instead, they're looking to fill holes with players who may contribute in 2022/2023 while saving draft picks/prospects and remaining under the tax threshold. Bloom's interest with Bauer was likely in signing him at a lower rate with an option for 2022, but Bauer getting 11m for 1 year on a team planning to compete for the world series, while he rebuilds his value, made far more sense for him. But we certainly could get Bauer next year. It sucks being 'competitive' without trying to win, but it is what it is. Can't dig ourselves out of the hole in one offseason. That is fair, thanks for responding. But...every team has holes. The strength in ML is in the NL. The AL is pretty wide open. The MFY aren't any better at this point. I am less worried about position players as our offense has remained top tier for a number of years. The 2013 team was indicative of a team where lightening can strike That being said, signing some pitching this year is setting yourself up for the years you are talking about. I don't think you can just say...wait until 2022 and think the plan will come together any easier. Other teams will also be in play for good pitchers services then. We are operating on the margain's here. It is frustrating to see and I am not convinced it is either necessary or good mgt. Also, I think you were confusing Bauer with Kluber. I have not read where Bauer has signed yet. You're right about the mixup of the 2 former 'Cleveland Baseball Club' pitchers - that's what I get for posting at 1am. The overall post is still accurate though. It doesn't seem to make sense to sign a player to an 8-figure 1 year deal for a team which isn't expect to contend for a World Series this year. In reference to the 'why'; in addition to the financial losses mentioned above there is a 3-4 year window in which the Red Sox (or possibly any team) are willing to exceed the luxury tax. It certainly seems to make more sense for that window to begin in 2022 and last through 2025 and span 2021 through 2024. (it is true that the luxury tax will likely be changed by this time, but unlikely the change will alter the general structure or planning as the MLB teams seem to like its effect) Imagine this conversation: Chaim Bloom: I would like to exceed the luxury tax and spend 'X' additional dollars in 2021. John Henry: Will the 'X' dollars get us to the World Series? Chaim Bloom: Probably not. John Henry: Will it assure us a playoff spot? Chaim Bloom: Maybe....but assure? No. John Henry: Then, no.
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Post by electricityverdugo99 on Jan 17, 2021 14:50:51 GMT -5
I'm not sure if I like or dislike the move of bringing Perez back. He's not going to be very valuable come trade deadline.
They have two or three swingmen, so I'm not sure how valuable it is to eat innings on this club while you got bullpen guys to cover a lot of them. Perez fills innings and that's about all he does.
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