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Red Sox frontrunners for Hirokazu Sawamura
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Post by manfred on Feb 9, 2021 12:08:57 GMT -5
Ok, I’ll say it: Hernandez —> Sawamura —> Barnes—> Ottavino has pretty significant upside. Theoretically you are looking at 95+ (at least until AO), at least one above average secondary pitch (plus in a couple cases), etc. Now, obviously, there is a scary floor if AO doesn’t bounce back and if they all suffer from their collective propensity to wildness. This could be a real heartburn special. Still, there are four of them... it feels like the upside is a slightly better bet than the down. At the least, it could be a fun crew to watch. Regarding Ottavino his season was strong minus one outlier game where he didn't record an out and let up 6 runs. That ballooned his era from about 3 to over 6. I’m super high on him. I’m just including the possibility that the bell tolls for an older reliever etc etc. It has to happen some time.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Feb 9, 2021 12:11:42 GMT -5
Yeah I keep seeing that he needs to "bounce back" but he didn't have a bad season at all. There was actually one more bad outing and the rest were basically fine.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 9, 2021 12:22:19 GMT -5
Regarding Ottavino his season was strong minus one outlier game where he didn't record an out and let up 6 runs. That ballooned his era from about 3 to over 6. I’m super high on him. I’m just including the possibility that the bell tolls for an older reliever etc etc. It has to happen some time. You'd think so but I know I spent a lot of years waiting for time to catch up to Mariano Rivera. Never happened. Kind of like waiting for Tom Brady to actually act his age. But yeah, I get your point, which is quite valid. My examples are the most extreme outliers possible.
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Post by soxfanatic on Feb 9, 2021 12:29:02 GMT -5
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 9, 2021 12:31:34 GMT -5
Awesome. Should be interesting to watch. Even if he isn't Koji, the Sox have gotten a lot of good relief pitching out of Japan, from Okajima to Tazawa to Saito. And for all the disappointment of Daisuke the fact was that he was a positive contributor to the 2007 and 2008 Red Sox.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 9, 2021 12:39:41 GMT -5
If Sawamura becomes their closer and pitches great I wonder if his 9th inning Fenway walk-in song will be Bonnie Tyler's "We need a Hiro"! Not quite as intimidating as Keith Foulke's "Mother" song from Danzig....
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Feb 9, 2021 13:40:33 GMT -5
If Sawamura becomes their closer and pitches great I wonder if his 9th inning Fenway walk-in song will be Bonnie Tyler's "We need a Hiro"! Not quite as intimidating as Keith Foulke's "Mother" song from Danzig.... That song had just gotten stuck in my head for this reason. Who says he needs to close? Everyone's got their music - the closer just gets a video and more volume. Doesn't always need to be intimidating - recall Koji using Sandstorm, which was great in that it got the park clapping. Was kind of the direction they had to go after the all-time greatness of Shipping up to Boston (even if you don't like the song, the "crowd participation" of Pap's entrance was great theater, plus it was short enough they could get through the whole thing). Not sure I ever knew Foulke used Danzig. Dark. I recall Derek Lowe used Running with the Devil which worked really well.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 9, 2021 13:53:38 GMT -5
If Sawamura becomes their closer and pitches great I wonder if his 9th inning Fenway walk-in song will be Bonnie Tyler's "We need a Hiro"! Not quite as intimidating as Keith Foulke's "Mother" song from Danzig.... That song had just gotten stuck in my head for this reason. Who says he needs to close? Everyone's got their music - the closer just gets a video and more volume. Doesn't always need to be intimidating - recall Koji using Sandstorm, which was great in that it got the park clapping. Was kind of the direction they had to go after the all-time greatness of Shipping up to Boston (even if you don't like the song, the "crowd participation" of Pap's entrance was great theater, plus it was short enough they could get through the whole thing). Not sure I ever knew Foulke used Danzig. Dark. I recall Derek Lowe used Running with the Devil which worked really well. Yeah, you're right. Now that I think about it, I do remember "Black Betty" by Ram Jam playing on the loud speakers as Mike Timlin would enter. I can't believe I had forgotten "Shipping up to Boston" that Paps used. That really fit him. Mother by Danzig would play when Foulke entered the game. You might notice that in some of the video of him from 2004. For whatever reason I think it was Gabe Kapler who changed over to some country song for Foulke somewhere around 2005, but by then, Foulke was toward the end of the line, so I'll always associated Danzig with Foulke, even though it really didn't fit who he was. He was stone cold and fearless on that mound, though. Didn't have great stuff, but really knew how to pitch. I guess my infatuation with Hiro being the closer is more my lack of confidence of Barnes in the role and uncertainty that the role would fit Ottavino well, but the truth of the matter is that Hiro might have similar issues. I would anticipate Cora will give Barnes every chance to close, but who knows how it will turn out? If Hernandez ever harnessed his control somewhat, he'd be the ideal guy to close, as he's extremely overpowering, but then again Cora might just use Hernandez the way Francona used Andrew Miller, more as a fireman than a closer, with high leverage situations dictating the usage.
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Post by manfred on Feb 9, 2021 14:06:41 GMT -5
That song had just gotten stuck in my head for this reason. Who says he needs to close? Everyone's got their music - the closer just gets a video and more volume. Doesn't always need to be intimidating - recall Koji using Sandstorm, which was great in that it got the park clapping. Was kind of the direction they had to go after the all-time greatness of Shipping up to Boston (even if you don't like the song, the "crowd participation" of Pap's entrance was great theater, plus it was short enough they could get through the whole thing). Not sure I ever knew Foulke used Danzig. Dark. I recall Derek Lowe used Running with the Devil which worked really well. Yeah, you're right. Now that I think about it, I do remember "Black Betty" by Ram Jam playing on the loud speakers as Mike Timlin would enter. I can't believe I had forgotten "Shipping up to Boston" that Paps used. That really fit him. Mother by Danzig would play when Foulke entered the game. You might notice that in some of the video of him from 2004. For whatever reason I think it was Gabe Kapler who changed over to some country song for Foulke somewhere around 2005, but by then, Foulke was toward the end of the line, so I'll always associated Danzig with Foulke, even though it really didn't fit who he was. He was stone cold and fearless on that mound, though. Didn't have great stuff, but really knew how to pitch. I guess my infatuation with Hiro being the closer is more my lack of confidence of Barnes in the role and uncertainty that the role would fit Ottavino well, but the truth of the matter is that Hiro might have similar issues. I would anticipate Cora will give Barnes every chance to close, but who knows how it will turn out? If Hernandez ever harnessed his control somewhat, he'd be the ideal guy to close, as he's extremely overpowering, but then again Cora might just use Hernandez the way Francona used Andrew Miller, more as a fireman than a closer, with high leverage situations dictating the usage. Jesus do I hope Barnes is not the closer. I’d give Ottavino every chance. I don’t think Barnes is a closer. But Cora knows their mentalities. I just guess. So if he goes with Barnes, I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt that he sees something in him psychologically.
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Post by blizzards39 on Feb 9, 2021 20:40:24 GMT -5
Is this deal official?? $$?
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Post by vermontsox1 on Feb 10, 2021 18:29:55 GMT -5
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Post by vermontsox1 on Feb 15, 2021 15:06:07 GMT -5
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Post by geostorm on Feb 15, 2021 15:17:01 GMT -5
At 2:14, he threw 95mph splitter. "hiyaku goju san" is 153. And 153km translates to 95mph. I've heard of 95mph cutter or sinker. But I've never heard of 95mph splitter.
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Post by electricityverdugo99 on Feb 16, 2021 6:14:42 GMT -5
What's interesting to me is that he holds onto the ball for a while with no men on base. He's intentionally trying to throw the hitter's timing off.
Intentionally trying** edit
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ericmvan
Veteran
Supposed to be working on something more important
Posts: 8,923
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Post by ericmvan on Feb 16, 2021 6:53:38 GMT -5
Do people agree that he has at least a little funk in his delivery?
It seems to me that his arm goes behind his body almost to the other side, and comes back and is visible on his arm side for a lot less time than is usual.
Guys with funky deliveries have great success with hitters who've never seen them. He had spectacular numbers when he changed leagues in Japan last year, and I think that may be why.
Folks may remember Barry Bonds taking the third strike he ever saw from Okajima right down the middle. I tracked Oki's splits by times guys had faced him in their career and they were crazy.
Obviously they could have put together a lowlight reel of hanging splitters that were hit hard, so the pitch isn't always that nasty. But at its best, it's pure filth.
John Farrell believed that Koji was better as a closer than as a setup guy because guys were over-eager in their last chance to win, and would chase his splitter more often. When you combine that splitter with the funk, this guy has to be on the list of potentioal closers, although you'd want to keep him from facing guys more than 2 or 3 times.
I now return you to your regularly scheduled not insanely optimistic message board.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Feb 17, 2021 22:00:51 GMT -5
If Sawamura becomes their closer and pitches great I wonder if his 9th inning Fenway walk-in song will be Bonnie Tyler's "We need a Hiro"! Not quite as intimidating as Keith Foulke's "Mother" song from Danzig.... That song had just gotten stuck in my head for this reason. Who says he needs to close? Everyone's got their music - the closer just gets a video and more volume. Doesn't always need to be intimidating - recall Koji using Sandstorm, which was great in that it got the park clapping. Was kind of the direction they had to go after the all-time greatness of Shipping up to Boston (even if you don't like the song, the "crowd participation" of Pap's entrance was great theater, plus it was short enough they could get through the whole thing). Not sure I ever knew Foulke used Danzig. Dark. I recall Derek Lowe used Running with the Devil which worked really well. And so, of course, he also uses Sandstorm, because of Koji.
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Post by boydhurstlovechild on Feb 20, 2021 12:52:58 GMT -5
Nice shoutout to Debra Granik! Have had the pleasure working with her a few times, including the masterful Winter's Bone out in Missouri. Easilly one of the most talented directors I've ever seen. Speaking of walk up music, I remember being a little schocked to hear the beginnings of Teenage Kicks by th Undertones. Was so used to just tuning out Metalica, Macarena, Let the Bodies Hit the Floor, and Nu Metal. Think it was Jed Lowrie?
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 13,968
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Post by cdj on Feb 20, 2021 14:18:23 GMT -5
Steven Wright had Shadow on the Sun and that was a jam, I wouldn’t even get mad that I’d see a knuckleballer in person for like the 100th time in my life after getting a Wakefield start every time I went growing up lol
Excited for the return of Sandstorm
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Post by blizzards39 on Feb 20, 2021 23:17:03 GMT -5
The more I anylize this deal the more I like it. Sawamura is no guarantee, but let say it goes the other way. The current roster has a lot of good pitchers, but none of them have had any success or project as a closer. I like Barnes and Ottavino but they project better in the 7/8th. Darwinson is still raw and I’d like to keep him as a LH. Taylor and Braiser I don’t think are closer material. It’s also worth noting that Cora has clearly stated he likes his relievers to have defined roles. So I don’t think a closer by committee will be used. If Sawamura can close it would go a long ways to haveing a solid bullpen, and I’m getting more confident that it’s very possible he can.
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