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Benintendi traded to KC in 3-way deal w/ NYM
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Post by manfred on Apr 13, 2021 10:39:50 GMT -5
I am not arguing against that, but there are a lot of guys with a lot of “buts” — heck, the Twins manager was one. We could all probably list off dozens of guys who were like elite sports cars... so perfect that they always seemed to be in the shop. I’m not actually making predictions. I am just saying, well, Franchy seems especially unpredictable, and no two week stretch gives me any greater clarity looking towards the future. Fair enough. Though, despite it being to early, I am encouraged by his approach; he seems like a smart hitter, willing to go the other way and so forth, and with the track record I'd easily take him over Dalbec, for instance, in a futures market for baseball players. Really, at this moment the Benintendi-for-Franchy swap seems like about an even value trade, even setting aside the payroll savings, the extra year of control, and the 3 prospects. Fair. Of course, since Beni might be toast, that trade was always potentially even, if the return was Franchy or a bag of balls, sadly. Bums me out.
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Post by incandenza on Apr 13, 2021 10:43:06 GMT -5
Still only 36 PAs, but... Benintendi's wRC+ is even lower than it was last season.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Apr 13, 2021 11:09:02 GMT -5
Still only 36 PAs, but... Benintendi's wRC+ is even lower than it was last season. So far, if he continues to perform like this then even if none of the return pieces work out, it's still a win for getting lottery tickets instead of nothing and this level of performance isn't with the big club. If the Red Sox didn't trade him the offense would be worse, again, so far.
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Post by manfred on Apr 14, 2021 18:21:47 GMT -5
Beni is actually creeping up, but no power. Last 7 games, .259 BA, .355 OBP ... but .296 slugging.
Is there something wrong with him physically that just has sapped his power?
He also has 3 SBs, so maybe his overall athleticism isn’t quite kaput.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 13,856
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Post by cdj on Apr 14, 2021 18:57:43 GMT -5
The 3 steals caught my eye too, he did say something about leaning back out so maybe his athleticism ticked back up
3 K’s despite the good day so the hit tool is continuing to become more and more concerning
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Post by kevfc89 on Apr 14, 2021 20:12:39 GMT -5
The 3 steals caught my eye too, he did say something about leaning back out so maybe his athleticism ticked back up 3 K’s despite the good day so the hit tool is continuing to become more and more concerning He's sadly looking like a TTO hitter if the outcomes were strikeout, walk, and weak contact.
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Post by manfred on Apr 15, 2021 19:27:43 GMT -5
Beni with second 2b in 2 days. OPS up to .619. BA .244.
Not a form of second guessing, but I live Beni and really hope he comes back. Any signs of life are certainly welcome.
Add: aaaaannndd promptly CS 3b. 🤷♂️
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 13,856
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Post by cdj on Apr 15, 2021 19:46:18 GMT -5
Yeah I genuinely would like to see him do well, we don’t win in 2018 without him and he seems like a likable guy. I don’t know how anybody can root against him.
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Post by swingingbunt on Apr 16, 2021 0:33:36 GMT -5
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Post by voiceofreason on Apr 16, 2021 8:16:58 GMT -5
Whatever has crept into his head I hope he can overcome it but those are some telling #'s.
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Post by incandenza on Apr 16, 2021 9:28:25 GMT -5
He's hit .333/.385/.500 in the last three games with a 23% K rate. That's obviously a microscopic sample, but it is at least *possible* that he just had a rough first week of the season. And it's still the case that you only need to go back about 170 PAs to find a time when he was hitting really well.
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Post by manfred on Apr 16, 2021 9:33:43 GMT -5
I watched some of that game yesterday. It is so weird. He looks ok at the plate. He lofted a flyout to left that would have been a wallball in Fenway. Yet it is clear from the larger results that things are not working. I wonder if he has some core problem sapping his power. Not even home run power.... just zip on his batted ball. It almost reminds me of Mattingly, when he just fell off a power cliff as his back acted up.
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Post by RedSoxStats on Apr 16, 2021 10:10:24 GMT -5
Benny's quality of contact ranks 162nd out 173 players that have put 25+ balls in play.
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Post by incandenza on Apr 16, 2021 10:25:50 GMT -5
That's a cool chart, where can I find those?
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Post by manfred on Apr 16, 2021 10:27:43 GMT -5
In the other hand, you know who else has zero barrels? Franchy. He is in the 2nd percentile for xwOBA, 3rd for xBA. 3rd for K%... well ahead of Dalbec. Beni is at least in 32nd percentile for xBA. As I’ve said before, this could be a trade that a few years from now is barely a footnote in the history of either organization.
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Post by RedSoxStats on Apr 16, 2021 10:38:28 GMT -5
That's a cool chart, where can I find those? link Click on 'graphs' next to a player's name and then hit 'radial chart'
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 16, 2021 10:51:44 GMT -5
In the other hand, you know who else has zero barrels? Franchy. He is in the 2nd percentile for xwOBA, 3rd for xBA. 3rd for K%... well ahead of Dalbec. Beni is at least in 32nd percentile for xBA. As I’ve said before, this could be a trade that a few years from now is barely a footnote in the history of either organization. It all depends where you think Bloom thinks the value comes from. I don't think it's Frenchy, I think it's the yet unnamed Mets prospect. That's where the best piece in the deal was sent. So I expect some young upside guy. It might be 3-5 years before you even start to get an idea about how good or bad this trade was.
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Post by manfred on Apr 16, 2021 11:03:30 GMT -5
In the other hand, you know who else has zero barrels? Franchy. He is in the 2nd percentile for xwOBA, 3rd for xBA. 3rd for K%... well ahead of Dalbec. Beni is at least in 32nd percentile for xBA. As I’ve said before, this could be a trade that a few years from now is barely a footnote in the history of either organization. It all depends where you think Bloom thinks the value comes from. I don't think it's Frenchy, I think it's the yet unnamed Mets prospect. That's where the best piece in the deal was sent. So I expect some young upside guy. It might be 3-5 years before you even start to get an idea about how good or bad this trade was. Of course. And I’m not trying to dismiss the moving pieces. I mean in terms of the primary Royal-Sox exchange. I guess technically the exchange with Mets involves the former, but.... yeah. I mostly mean the Franchy/Beni flip.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 16, 2021 13:42:58 GMT -5
It all depends where you think Bloom thinks the value comes from. I don't think it's Frenchy, I think it's the yet unnamed Mets prospect. That's where the best piece in the deal was sent. So I expect some young upside guy. It might be 3-5 years before you even start to get an idea about how good or bad this trade was. Of course. And I’m not trying to dismiss the moving pieces. I mean in terms of the primary Royal-Sox exchange. I guess technically the exchange with Mets involves the former, but.... yeah. I mostly mean the Franchy/Beni flip. So you think Franchy was the big piece? Not a top ten prospect in Khalil Lee? For me this is a very important trade that will tell us a ton about how good Bloom actually is. Getting a haul for Betts isn't hard and frankly he turned that into a three ring circus. Flipping too be free agents for the best package you can get, again it's not rocket science. Crap any GM can do. This trade is the crazy creative type I've been waiting for. The type DD would never make. Mainly because he took what looked like a decent to good return and then did what most GMs never do, a prospect for prospect trade. I can't wait to see the pieces and then see how this turns out. I don't see this being a footnote for Bloom, yet one way or another the most telling trade he's made in his career up to this point.
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Post by incandenza on Apr 16, 2021 14:07:02 GMT -5
Of course. And I’m not trying to dismiss the moving pieces. I mean in terms of the primary Royal-Sox exchange. I guess technically the exchange with Mets involves the former, but.... yeah. I mostly mean the Franchy/Beni flip. So you think Franchy was the big piece? Not a top ten prospect in Khalil Lee? For me this is a very important trade that will tell us a ton about how good Bloom actually is. Getting a haul for Betts isn't hard and frankly he turned that into a three ring circus. Flipping too be free agents for the best package you can get, again it's not rocket science. Crap any GM can do. This trade is the crazy creative type I've been waiting for. The type DD would never make. Mainly because he took what looked like a decent to good return and then did what most GMs never do, a prospect for prospect trade. I can't wait to see the pieces and then see how this turns out. I don't see this being a footnote for Bloom, yet one way or another the most telling trade he's made in his career up to this point. Yeah, like if you think the Benintendi-Franchy components zero out, then basically Bloom got Khalil Lee as a total bonus. (And then he flipped Lee for TBD. Plus he got two other prospects from the Royals.) The prospects might not pan out - many prospects don't! - but even if that proves to be the case, I don't see how this wasn't a great trade. Again, that's accepting manfred's own premise in which, hypothetically, Benintendi-for-Franchy is a wash.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Apr 16, 2021 14:20:55 GMT -5
So you think Franchy was the big piece? Not a top ten prospect in Khalil Lee? For me this is a very important trade that will tell us a ton about how good Bloom actually is. Getting a haul for Betts isn't hard and frankly he turned that into a three ring circus. Flipping too be free agents for the best package you can get, again it's not rocket science. Crap any GM can do. This trade is the crazy creative type I've been waiting for. The type DD would never make. Mainly because he took what looked like a decent to good return and then did what most GMs never do, a prospect for prospect trade. I can't wait to see the pieces and then see how this turns out. I don't see this being a footnote for Bloom, yet one way or another the most telling trade he's made in his career up to this point. Yeah, like if you think the Benintendi-Franchy components zero out, then basically Bloom got Khalil Lee as a total bonus. (And then he flipped Lee for TBD. Plus he got two other prospects from the Royals.) The prospects might not pan out - many prospects don't! - but even if that proves to be the case, I don't see how this wasn't a great trade. Again, that's accepting manfred's own premise in which, hypothetically, Benintendi-for-Franchy is a wash. You're getting 3 years of Franchy for Beni's 2 years - and let's face it. Even if Benintendi was good it was unlikely he was going to get a long-term contract so the swap go the Sox an extra year of control on their starting LF. Then you get Lee, who projects as the future LF, but the Sox figure the Mets like him more and perhaps they like the idea of Duran in LF and Jimenez in CF down the road so Lee is expendable so they trade him to the Mets.....and oh yeah, they also got another player from KC thrown in, yet to be determined. So Lee goes to the Mets for a pitcher the Sox apparently like in Winckowski plus another Mets prospect, obviously somebody rated lower than Lee because Winckowski is supposed to make up the difference, so it's pretty clear the Sox are taking an upside prospect, somebody who's further away and riskier but could potentially turn into somebody greater than Lee (or worse to be fair). That's a lot of possibilities for a guy they never intended on extending and who may very well be declining badly. Maybe those possibilities don't work out, but Bloom has stacked the odds in his favor and if by chance Cordero matures as a guy who can bash RH pitching (I won't rule that out), whatever he gets beyond that is gravy (and a complete steal). If Cordero is mediocre, all it takes is one of the other 4 prospects to blossom and they still do well in the trade. If two of those guys hit - and Cordero? It would have a chance to exceed Bloom's ripoff of the Phillies.
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Post by manfred on Apr 16, 2021 14:25:18 GMT -5
So you think Franchy was the big piece? Not a top ten prospect in Khalil Lee? For me this is a very important trade that will tell us a ton about how good Bloom actually is. Getting a haul for Betts isn't hard and frankly he turned that into a three ring circus. Flipping too be free agents for the best package you can get, again it's not rocket science. Crap any GM can do. This trade is the crazy creative type I've been waiting for. The type DD would never make. Mainly because he took what looked like a decent to good return and then did what most GMs never do, a prospect for prospect trade. I can't wait to see the pieces and then see how this turns out. I don't see this being a footnote for Bloom, yet one way or another the most telling trade he's made in his career up to this point. Yeah, like if you think the Benintendi-Franchy components zero out, then basically Bloom got Khalil Lee as a total bonus. (And then he flipped Lee for TBD. Plus he got two other prospects from the Royals.) The prospects might not pan out - many prospects don't! - but even if that proves to be the case, I don't see how this wasn't a great trade. Again, that's accepting manfred's own premise in which, hypothetically, Benintendi-for-Franchy is a wash. A couple things: 1) As I’ve said elsewhere, I don’t think saying a trade will be a wash makes it *bad* — I separate the principle from the outcome. Thus, I agree that this was a particularly interesting trade conceptually. I can see why you’d trade problem A (Beni) for problem B (Franchy). I just think Franchy is going nowhere. I know, wow, it is early to say that! But he has rough numbers going back, and many of his numbers this year are far worse than the surface shows (huge K rate etc). And I am not at all impressed watching him. I think he could hit 25-30 HRs from 25-30 badly located pitches, but he doesn’t appear to have any real idea of what he is up to. 2) I am, as I said, reserving judgment on the “second half,” Lee for TBD. So, yes, I am saying the Franchy/Beni part will be a “who’s that now?” In years to come. The rest? Well, in essence that trade hasn’t even happened, so we’ll see right? Even the question — was the big piece Franchy or “atop ten prospect” is based on speculation. We don’t know who we’ll get. So as of 12:22 today, Franchy is the big piece. And he may or may not remain so. I want to be clear... I’m not attacking the trade. It isn’t a bad try. And I am 100% in agreement that we have to wait years on this TBA package to judge. I’m really looking at the main exchange between the Royals and Sox. (Hell, if Lee works out, the Mets certainly won’t forget the deal!).
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 16, 2021 14:42:25 GMT -5
So you think Franchy was the big piece? Not a top ten prospect in Khalil Lee? For me this is a very important trade that will tell us a ton about how good Bloom actually is. Getting a haul for Betts isn't hard and frankly he turned that into a three ring circus. Flipping too be free agents for the best package you can get, again it's not rocket science. Crap any GM can do. This trade is the crazy creative type I've been waiting for. The type DD would never make. Mainly because he took what looked like a decent to good return and then did what most GMs never do, a prospect for prospect trade. I can't wait to see the pieces and then see how this turns out. I don't see this being a footnote for Bloom, yet one way or another the most telling trade he's made in his career up to this point. Yeah, like if you think the Benintendi-Franchy components zero out, then basically Bloom got Khalil Lee as a total bonus. (And then he flipped Lee for TBD. Plus he got two other prospects from the Royals.) The prospects might not pan out - many prospects don't! - but even if that proves to be the case, I don't see how this wasn't a great trade. Again, that's accepting manfred's own premise in which, hypothetically, Benintendi-for-Franchy is a wash. We'll see I'm not sold on the Benintendi vs Franchy is a wash. I don't have inside information on what's going on with Benintendi, let's see what he does this year. I don't take guys stats seriously in Baseball till they play a bunch of games. Obviously the Royals didn't think he was done. Once we get the final details I'll judge it first on what it was, then later on for what it became. As long as Bloom gets the type of prospect I think he'll get from the Mets he should do just fine. I'll be fine with a very good trade where the prospects didn't pan out. Sure it happens, yet he traded the highest guy close to the majors for two much lower ranked guys. It's really Benintendi versus the Royals deal and the Royals deal versus what we get after the Mets deal. Bloom could look brilliant, just decent or just a bad horrible deal. This waiting months just to get the first look at it is killing me.
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Post by soxfan06 on Apr 20, 2021 21:25:19 GMT -5
It's kind of sad how bad Benintendi looks....how did it all go so wrong.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Apr 20, 2021 23:03:48 GMT -5
It's kind of sad how bad Benintendi looks....how did it all go so wrong. Interesting note. He hasn't hit a home run since 2019.
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