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Benintendi traded to KC in 3-way deal w/ NYM
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Post by soxfan06 on Jun 4, 2021 23:23:26 GMT -5
I didn't like this trade when it happened. I really really don't like this trade now. Especially considering we actually have a good team this year. Really poor job imo by the front office.
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Post by DesignatedForAssignment on Jun 4, 2021 23:24:24 GMT -5
KC winning the trade, due to Benintendi resurgence. He's a trade chip in July or '22. www.mlb.com/prospects/redsox/Khalil is still #7 Mets Valdez is #21 Sox
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Post by fdrnewdeal on Jun 4, 2021 23:39:36 GMT -5
I'm really kinda shocked at the narrative regarding Benintendi is on this thread. Offensively he's been fine, but he's had absolutely zero power. He has a ISO of .105 and according to statcast, it's not like he's getting unlucky. baseballsavant.mlb.com/savant-player/andrew-benintendi-643217?stats=statcast-r-hitting-mlbThe most encouraging thing is that his sprint speed has recovered to 2018/2019 levels. At that speed his an okay defender in left field. I get that he'd fit well in Boston at this very moment, but he looks like an okay hitter who won't kill you on defense. Hardly the one that got away.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 14,228
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Post by cdj on Jun 5, 2021 0:01:41 GMT -5
I'm really kinda shocked at the narrative regarding Benintendi is on this thread. Offensively he's been fine, but he's had absolutely zero power. He has a ISO of .105 and according to statcast, it's not like he's getting unlucky. baseballsavant.mlb.com/savant-player/andrew-benintendi-643217?stats=statcast-r-hitting-mlbThe most encouraging thing is that his sprint speed has recovered to 2018/2019 levels. At that speed his an okay defender in left field. I get that he'd fit well in Boston at this very moment, but he looks like an okay hitter who won't kill you on defense. Hardly the one that got away. Not using that rediscovered sprint speed well either, 6 CS and negative zone ratings
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Post by orion09 on Jun 5, 2021 1:10:01 GMT -5
The other factor that hasn’t been discussed is who’s to say that Benintendi would he doing what he’s been doing if he stayed?
He struck me as a change of scenery guy. Maybe the trade woke him up. It certainly sounds like the club wasn’t enthused with his approach the last few seasons.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 5, 2021 1:10:27 GMT -5
So much talk about Benintendi's iso, yet .142 versus RHP, .034 versus LHP, .068 at home, .159 away. It's a very limited sample size. Yet he's always been a much better hitter versus RHP and his new home park might not be a great fit. Now compare Renfroe who kills LHP and it looks like a darn good fit no? I thought that was the plan from day one.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 5, 2021 1:17:11 GMT -5
As far as the trade, I'm going to give it time. These are young guys, let's see what they do. It's hard with last year being lost, so I'll hold off till the end of this year.
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Post by stevedillard on Jun 5, 2021 7:13:07 GMT -5
I love high ceiling kids, so Valdez and de la Rosa fit right in.
Interesting that the big pieces were not playing formal ball this year, so the "follow" period was probably fairly important to the Sox who otherwise would last have seen the pool of players in 2019. Am I correct that the GCL teams were at least somewhat formally scrimmaging against each other so that scouts could see these two in near game action?
That said, I went to the projected team lineups page, and noticed there's only one GCL team. Am I misremembering that the page previously suggested a second team may be in the offing? In any event, with Valdez now there, the outfield will be tough to get everyone playing time. A group of kids just outside the top-40, but waiting to get first game action and get a real rating from the site:
LF Eduardo Vaughan (#58) CF Eduardo Lopez (#39) RF Freddy Valdez (low30s?) Extra OF Bryan Gonzalez (#46) DH Darel Belen (#45)
Overall, the team will be a must follow for this site with Brainer and Blaze in the infield (and add in Lawlar too;)
With de la Rosa in the starting rotation, that's another one where every start will have a strong upside kid like Nathaniel Cruz, Liu, and Loubier. That group will carry this site for the next four years.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Jun 5, 2021 7:30:31 GMT -5
I didn't like this trade when it happened. I really really don't like this trade now. Especially considering we actually have a good team this year. Really poor job imo by the front office. This is how I feel as well. Benintendi would be a good fit on this current team and we didn’t get much for him. If they were determined to pawn him off they could’ve done it next season. We also gave KC money along with the deal. Maybe one of these prospects will surprise but Im not counting on it.
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Post by chr31ter on Jun 5, 2021 7:39:14 GMT -5
It's great that the big club is 34-23, but I'm still not buying the idea that they're serious World Series contenders.
If they're in a position to extract value from players they don't see being a part of the franchise in 2022 and beyond, they should take advantage of those opportunities.
Benny likely fell into that category for them. Might have helped them in 2021... didn't view him as a long-term solution.
Through that lens, this was a perfectly reasonable trade.
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Post by greatscottcooper on Jun 5, 2021 7:58:34 GMT -5
Not sure how one can complain when we don't really know what the list of prospects were.
I love the infusion of talent, can't wait to have our guys get some eyes on them and see how they progress this year.
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Post by jimgosger on Jun 5, 2021 8:00:45 GMT -5
Part of me is disappointed with the rest of this deal, but then again, I haven't laid eyes on these guys and even if I did, I'm no scout. What concerns me is there truly is no headliner in this deal. I thought the Mets prospect would be Vientos (who I'm not that high on) or Dominguez. I think you miss what Bloom is doing. He's building depth in the minor league system. This is exactly what he did in TB. All prospects carry some level of risk, but you minimize that risk and increase the odds that you will improve the team when you trade for several prospects. This is why the 5 prospects for one player makes total sense. And it's why you can't evaluate how this trade ends up benefiting the Sox for a long time.
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Post by wildsox on Jun 5, 2021 9:39:38 GMT -5
I didn't like this trade when it happened. I really really don't like this trade now. Especially considering we actually have a good team this year. Really poor job imo by the front office. This is how I feel as well. Benintendi would be a good fit on this current team and we didn’t get much for him. If they were determined to pawn him off they could’ve done it next season. We also gave KC money along with the deal. Maybe one of these prospects will surprise but Im not counting on it. I just don’t think Beni was going to have the same rebound if he was still in Boston. So I don’t think you can take what he’s doing in KC and assume he’d do that here on this team.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 5, 2021 9:43:26 GMT -5
Just a few things. I get this is a prospect site, yet all prospects aren't equal. The quality and upside of the prospects matters. In a normal year teams bring in dozens of prospects. I can understand the Benintendi isn't part of our future part, yet he wasn't a to be free agent either. You could have waited a year, I think that needs to be part of the thought process. A huge part of trades is picking the right time to trade players and Bloom did trade Benintendi at his all time low value. I can't be the only one thinking about what the Royals might get at the deadline if they trade Benintendi.
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Post by Guidas on Jun 5, 2021 10:43:17 GMT -5
Not sure how one can complain when we don't really know what the list of prospects were. I love the infusion of talent, can't wait to have our guys get some eyes on them and see how they progress this year. www.audacy.com/weei/sports/red-sox/red-sox-complete-andrew-benintendi-trade-acquire-3-playersSo now we know and they are...uh...true lottery tickets. The two Royals prospects are not ranked in Baseball America's top 30 (for a system that was rated only slightly higher than the Sox). BA has the Mets (slightly lower ranked system than the Sox) guy at 17, a big power, low contact, slow RF type. All this...TBA lottery tickets (reminds me to play a scratch-off game today to get similar odds), Franchy and Winchoski. Meanwhile, Bloom traded Beni at the bottom of his value and, as umassgrad2005 said here, KC may be able to get real value (i.e. not lottery ticket who-knows and dream-on guys like Franchy and Winchowski) if they decide to trade Beni at the deadline. Meanwhile, the Sox could actually use Beni right now. Lovely.
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zoot
Rookie
Posts: 50
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Post by zoot on Jun 5, 2021 10:51:24 GMT -5
I understand the reaction when we compare Bennie's 2021 improvement to what we guess the RS are receiving, but as others have pointed out, there's no probability that he would have replicated that performance had he remained at Fenway. If he was defying team wishes/advice by bulking up, that and the imminent need to extend him may have created a negative environment for continuing with the RS. All we can really conclude from this is that in 2020 we wish he had performed whatever mind and body reset that is now permitting him to perform better, and if he had, well then the trade returns would likely have been different. That's a lot of contingencies.
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Post by soxin8 on Jun 5, 2021 11:00:30 GMT -5
Rany has followed the Royals for a couple decades now. This is his opinion of the players included.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 5, 2021 11:19:08 GMT -5
I understand the reaction when we compare Bennie's 2021 improvement to what we guess the RS are receiving, but as others have pointed out, there's no probability that he would have replicated that performance had he remained at Fenway. If he was defying team wishes/advice by bulking up, that and the imminent need to extend him may have created a negative environment for continuing with the RS. All we can really conclude from this is that in 2020 we wish he had performed whatever mind and body reset that is now permitting him to perform better, and if he had, well then the trade returns would likely have been different. That's a lot of contingencies. I wouldn't say defying, that's not the way Cora tells it, he just did it on his own in the offseason. It didn't work, everyone saw that, so he adjusted. This wasn't the Royals fixed him, when the Red Sox couldn't. The home and away splits actually say he could be doing better in Boston. Zero evidence that a new home park is helping him, it's actually hurting him. So why couldn't he be doing this in Boston? I don't buy he couldn't handle Boston one bit, not with his history. Heck you want to go the the extreme, given the home park numbers and the Red Sox limiting his ABs against lefties, he could be doing much better. I can actually back that up with numbers.
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Post by greatscottcooper on Jun 5, 2021 11:28:10 GMT -5
If you're going to use Benitendis post trade performance to evaluate the trade then you really have to consider what these prospects will do, that's fair. A bird in hand is worth two in the bush; you have 29 potential years of control between 5 different guys, two of which we haven't seen play a game in the Sox system.
What I would like to know is this. Who was on the list? what were the Sox options? I would be interested to know that, but I'm not sure that's something we ever will know outside of hearing player x could have been had. Which we will find out in 10 years if that guy ends up becoming an MVP and we're still listening to amazing soxprospect podcasts.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Jun 5, 2021 11:35:03 GMT -5
One way to look at it: If you could take this trade back, would you? Or, would you rather have these prospects, or Benintendi at this moment in time?
I would take this trade back 100%.
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Post by Guidas on Jun 5, 2021 11:37:13 GMT -5
I understand the reaction when we compare Bennie's 2021 improvement to what we guess the RS are receiving, but as others have pointed out, there's no probability that he would have replicated that performance had he remained at Fenway. If he was defying team wishes/advice by bulking up, that and the imminent need to extend him may have created a negative environment for continuing with the RS. All we can really conclude from this is that in 2020 we wish he had performed whatever mind and body reset that is now permitting him to perform better, and if he had, well then the trade returns would likely have been different. That's a lot of contingencies. What data is this based on? If he got out of his approach, as is being claimed by KC, then that’s bad coaching by the Red Sox, whether it was Beni’s idea or not, and it’s up to them to get him back into his approach. If their their the ones who tried to make him into a power hitter, then more’s the pity and shame on them. 2020 was completely aberrant season with so many mitigating factors and a short season. If they based his “continued decline” on that then the front office needs to check itself. He was a 2 fWAR guy in 2017, a 4.4 fWAR guy in 2018 and a 2 fWAR guy in 2019. Seems like 2018 was the outlier and he’s a 2-3 fWAR guy. Did they really think Franchy and the lottery tickets would give them more return? Really? Who fooling whom. And whomever said they’re stocking up the system with org guys, please, go get some minor league FAs, undrafted college seniors and sign more International prospects.
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Post by Guidas on Jun 5, 2021 11:37:46 GMT -5
One way to look at it: If you could take this trade back, would you? Or, would you rather have these prospects, or Benintendi at this moment in time? I would take this trade back 100%. Seconded. Do we have a quorum?
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Post by Guidas on Jun 5, 2021 11:47:20 GMT -5
One way to look at it: If you could take this trade back, would you? Or, would you rather have these prospects, or Benintendi at this moment in time? I would take this trade back 100%. And as for those who talk about no winners or losers in trades or if this was all about "the future," Bloom admitted the other day looking at the KC box scores almost every day and even hovered around the word "regret." He doesn't do that if 1) he doesn't believe that trades aren't about winning and losing, and 2) he didn't think Franchy could replicate, or come near to replicating what Beni is doing for KC (or even, say, putting up a 2.0 WAR performance). I bet he'd take it back, too. Hell if you can get him to admit it, though. Maybe he can do a make-good and trade for Beni at the deadline (and I am only half kidding about this, and I have a bad feeling he may end up in pinstripes).
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Post by jmanny24 on Jun 5, 2021 12:08:45 GMT -5
So Benintendi has had 1 bad month and 1 good month and now he's an All-Star type player. If the months were reversed would the reaction be the same? I tend to doubt it, some of y'all shift with the wind. Once these guys get on the field and play well suddenly the consensus will be the trade is a win. How about we let things play out? I am fine with this trade, I will gladly take multiple young guys they can form and mold for a guy like Benintendi, who I think is a solid starting outfielder but not much more, when the team is playing better than expected and Renfroe is playing better than some expected. There were reports that the returns weren't going to be highly touted, they weren't, but there is potential there on top of Franchy and Wink, for a team that needed to restock the system, this deal is at the very least fair.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jun 5, 2021 12:11:13 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure you got it right the first time. Signed on July 2nd of 2018 that would put 5 seasons at December 2022. Brainer Bonaci, for instance, is in the same boat (signed July 9th and eligible December 2022). There are occasional guys who sign late, or who's league doesn't exist that season (happened in Venezuela a while back), that skew the dates. But I don't see anything here to indicate that (although he didn't play until 2019). I was definitely reading "next year" as "this year." No idea why. Sorry about that.
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