SoxProspects News
|
|
|
|
Legal
Forum Ground Rules
The views expressed by the members of this Forum do not necessarily reflect the views of SoxProspects, LLC.
© 2003-2024 SoxProspects, LLC
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Home | Search | My Profile | Messages | Members | Help |
Welcome Guest. Please Login or Register.
Benintendi traded to KC in 3-way deal w/ NYM
|
Post by Coreno on Feb 11, 2021 0:54:50 GMT -5
Have a feeling Lucius Fox could end up one of the PTBNLs from KC
|
|
|
Post by mikeyg413 on Feb 11, 2021 0:56:25 GMT -5
Speier just tweeted that the 3 PTBNL aren’t expected to land in the Red Sox’ top 10. But does say they feel they can get 3 very real MLB contributors out of this deal. Not sure who’d they be targeting but best case scenario would be three prospects in the 11-20 range.
|
|
|
Post by Oregon Norm on Feb 11, 2021 0:59:19 GMT -5
Just a thought, but KC may be betting on enough of a rebound with Benintendi to be able to dangle him as trade bait later in the season. He only has to return to his career average to be worth a bit in return. His struggle last season was painful to watch.
|
|
|
Post by mikeyg413 on Feb 11, 2021 1:03:37 GMT -5
Just a thought, but KC may be betting on enough of a rebound with Benintendi to be able to dangle him as trade bait later in the season. He only has to return to his career average to be worth a bit in return. His struggle last season was painful to watch. pretty smart on their part. They’re definitely in a good position if he bounces back regardless if they’re winning or not. He could fetch something ncie for them if he comes back
|
|
|
Post by manfred on Feb 11, 2021 1:04:51 GMT -5
What more can they do? They have to get another OF. But the FA market is pretty dried up overall. It seems like JBJ (or non-JBJ, eg Pillar or whatever) and done. Unless they pull off another trade, and I don’t know what else they can strip. The implication is that they "stripped" Benintendi, your song and dance aside. That's a guy this forum bled all over last year as he bottomed out. He may make it back to some semblance of what he at first appeared to be. But "turned the page on" would seem to be a more honest appraisal. At .114/.314/.428, there wsan't much left to strip. I’d say that that is a very fast page turn. He was obviously hurt at the end... he was on the IL. He seemed not right all year (after a mess of a pre-season, a national crisis etc). I guess I would have liked to see if that was a real reflection of where he is. People can differ. There are other guys I’d gave traded before him. JDM, Eovaldi, CVaz. I don’t know if any of the four yoeld enough to make it worth it. But... my point remains what I said... I don’t see what else they can do of substance, except sign an outfielder. They don’t have anymore parts to trade that won’t just move a problem (Devers, X, Verdugo, eg). They don’t want to trade a big package of prospects (rightly). And the FA market is pretty much drying up. And as I said... I’m open to possibilities people propose. I just see them being pretty much what they’ll be (plus an OF) — both because I don’t see the desire for a ny big move and because I don’t know how one would come about.
|
|
cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,659
|
Post by cdj on Feb 11, 2021 1:05:15 GMT -5
Speier just tweeted that the 3 PTBNL aren’t expected to land in the Red Sox’ top 10. But does say they feel they can get 3 very real MLB contributors out of this deal. Not sure who’d they be targeting but best case scenario would be three prospects in the 11-20 range. I was thinking they’d go with guys that are further away with high ceilings- guys like Robert Dominguez, Jordany Ventura, or Joshua Cornielly on the Mets and maybe a Ben Hernandez type from the Royals Could also see them being interested in Bolanos as major league ready pitching depth
|
|
|
Post by dyoungteach on Feb 11, 2021 2:39:57 GMT -5
I was hoping for pena from royals. Someone way far away but with a major upside. I’m betting Vientos and Alexander Ramirez and Freddie Alvarez for mets will be on the list. And royals will have a Kyle Isabel ben Henderson and Alec marsh on the list. I hate the trade BUT if you get marsh, Isabel, and vientos or Alvarez. The future outlook of trade should look great. What you do with that $$$ determines present outlook. And Eric pena would be an absolute monster steal in the deal. At this point get used to things like this. He won’t listen to us. He will make judgements his team says they should and generally cost/ minors/ and ability to contend will be premium. Couple last thoughts:
1). I worry will bloom be able to get the home run hitters/pitchers to put us over the top when that times comes? He always has eye on tomorrow but it might be at expense of today. ( so far it has been)
2). You have to be impressed. Leaks just don’t happen in this front office. He keeps ideas mum. I mean who thought Kansas City? And who even thought he would be moved? Ild bet that visit it was mentioned to benetendi as a courtesy
|
|
|
Post by Ryanod1 on Feb 11, 2021 4:51:34 GMT -5
I do find it interesting they also announced Winckowski as opposed to having him as a PTBNL later on. They may really like him Im sure they do at least to some extent. I wonder if the sox have had a chance to scout him more recently. Maybe a scout knows him or a scouts trusted friend talked him up (think Belichick with Nick Saban). Either way he is just the appetizer before the main course haha
|
|
|
Post by electricityverdugo99 on Feb 11, 2021 5:50:46 GMT -5
Just a thought, but KC may be betting on enough of a rebound with Benintendi to be able to dangle him as trade bait later in the season. He only has to return to his career average to be worth a bit in return. His struggle last season was painful to watch. That may be a bad bet. As much as I hated the fit for Benintendi in Fenway, I hate him playing in Kansas City even more. I wouldn't be shocked if he hits below 15 homeruns this year. That park is going to drain his power.
|
|
|
Post by jerrygarciaparra on Feb 11, 2021 5:59:25 GMT -5
Chaim is a different type of GM. For guys like me, it is gonna take a bit of getting used to. I like big ticket players, they have proven real valuable in the Sox success this century (along with good homegrown, no surprise there) . In this kind of deal, he will get 5 assets (if the return is as reported )
If they scout and develop well, i feel it is important to note that some the assets could also be flipped in the future in other deals. Can't look at it as just guys that are gonna make our club.
As far as Benni, it is sad. So long and thanks for the great memories and effort. The performance drop was significant enough, IMO, to merit having these discussions. I can understand not taking the risk hoping a rebound.
|
|
|
Post by electricityverdugo99 on Feb 11, 2021 5:59:38 GMT -5
Reminder everyone-
Jacob Wallace was the PTBNL for 2 months of Kevin Pillar. Chaim Bloom made that deal. Wallace is a borderline top 20 prospect right now.
|
|
|
Post by electricityverdugo99 on Feb 11, 2021 6:19:43 GMT -5
Something... or else I’d rather just go straight for Lee, right? Benny for Lee and something else would be better, so there must be more. I also wonder why not just do Franchy and Lee for Benny and not include the Mets. This is the money question. The Sox must not be that high on Lee. Got to trust their evaluation, but this is the part of the deal that can be questioned later. It was there to be had.
|
|
|
Post by electricityverdugo99 on Feb 11, 2021 6:25:33 GMT -5
Last part I'll say about this deal for now is that I don't think this deal pivots the Sox to go harder to get JBJ now.
I can see them getting a replacement level outfielder, maybe a Nomar Mazara for LF Fenway. With a Cordero/Renfroe in RF.
I still don't love the idea of JBJ for more than 2 or 3 years for high money.
|
|
|
Post by adiospaydro2005 on Feb 11, 2021 6:37:49 GMT -5
It is not clear to me what the plan is for 2021. None of the players acquired this offseason are difference makers which are going push the Red Sox into contention. I don’t get selling Beni when his value is at his low point. Why not let him build up some value in spring training and early 2021 season?
|
|
|
Post by Guidas on Feb 11, 2021 7:05:42 GMT -5
Body of work from the draft to today (I’m assuming the Mookie trade was foisted on him by ownership). Dude’s shown us nothing to merit being more than a replacement level GM right now. If that. Part of this is the recency bias coming off of Dave Dombrowski who is a strike fast strike hard GM. Bloom appears to be a more build on the fringes, build depth and youth followed by select large purchases. Dave's way gives instant gratification while Chaim’s is a multi year approach. Not a statement on this particular trade as I was looking for something different out of a Benintendi trade but there is potential for the unknown pieces to still make this a worthwhile trade. I am expecting a solid bounce back campaign from Benintendi this season. He is still a valuable piece for a club even when he’s not at his best. recency bias? Bad on me I guess for believing what I was told when Bloom was hired that this wasn’t a long-term rebuild. Meanwhile the team has gone from a one or two year turnaround to a solid 4-5year rebuild. Not what was advertised. I’m not big on historical revisionism, never mind the recency bias.
|
|
|
Post by yazman67 on Feb 11, 2021 7:07:12 GMT -5
Bottom line we are getting 5 "players" for Benny and $2.8 M! The odds are one of the five if not more, will help the team more than Benny. It will be a successful trade. If they are all 5 buckets of balls, then it is a failure. I am guessing there will be at least 1 prize in this package and everyone will look back and be happy! 5 for 1 marginal outfielder is worth the risk!
|
|
jimoh
Veteran
Posts: 4,123
|
Post by jimoh on Feb 11, 2021 7:23:17 GMT -5
[...] The only good argument for staying under the cap this year, and it's very good if it's correct, is that they already know they want to go over in 2023. That's a quick and easy research question, as I already have a spreadsheet that ranks teams by financial clout. Which of the teams at the bottom of that list have a star or potential star player with 2 years of control left? That rundown forthcoming soon. I also not only enjoy showing that I can change my mind when a better theory comes along, I enjoy changing my mind, period.
Of course, the first name you'd put on that list is ... Andrew Benintendi.
Glad to see you finally mention 2023 as a possible reason to stay under in 2021. (AFAIK; I have possibly not read every paragraph of your longer posts)
|
|
|
Post by Ryanod1 on Feb 11, 2021 7:29:02 GMT -5
This trade is so intriguing. I really liked that Bloom made the decision to actually scout players for the trade vs going on outdated info. Not taking too much stock in last year is a very smart thing to do where this year players could be completely different. Who knows what happened after not playing a year (bad conditioning being a big one).
It is crazy how night and day Bloom is compared to DD. Bloom is at least trying to think about sustainability. In any business it would be dumb to try and put everything in to show 50% profits for two years, but -30% the next 10 (Dombrowski thinking). Chaim would by the type of kid that tries to smoke the hornets out and not get stung....and DD the type to kick the hornets nest and run lol.
|
|
jimoh
Veteran
Posts: 4,123
|
Post by jimoh on Feb 11, 2021 7:37:44 GMT -5
Reminder everyone- Jacob Wallace was the PTBNL for 2 months of Kevin Pillar. Chaim Bloom made that deal. Wallace is a borderline top 20 prospect right now. "on September 13, 1996, [David] Ortiz was traded to the Minnesota Twins as the player to be named later to complete an earlier transaction for Dave Hollins."
|
|
|
Post by stevedillard on Feb 11, 2021 7:38:55 GMT -5
Serious question on PTBNLs. There's no written agreement that teams have to trade a player on the "agreed-upon" list right? Like if some low A international signee completely changed in the past year, explodes onto the scene to open camp and the minor league season and is now considered a future star, what's stopping the Royals or Mets from saying they won't trade him anymore... besides a reputation that they could go back on their word in future deals? Bloom, from the brief quote, said no players have been e"embargoed," which seems illogical and also contrary to Speier's "will not be top 10" comment. Maybe what Bloom meant is within the lists selecting one doesn't take a second off the table? From a construction perspective, I gather KC wanted Beni, but we weren't keen on their prospects, so KC had to deal with Mets to get the prospect pool we wanted. Since that deal included the KC outfield prospect Lee, we presumably didn't like him. So I'd expect the key prospects we needed are on the Mets list. And if they're not going to be in our top 10 they are recent players farther away who did not really see action last year, maybe J2s or 2019/2020 draftees, sort of like our Chacon/Lopez? He's filled the immediate need with Cordeiro and filled the minors with older low ceiling guys like Seibold, so can swing for higher upside and pieces to deal next offseason for the big FA to be players about to outprice themselves (the reverse Mookie).
|
|
|
Post by Ryanod1 on Feb 11, 2021 7:41:18 GMT -5
Reminder everyone- Jacob Wallace was the PTBNL for 2 months of Kevin Pillar. Chaim Bloom made that deal. Wallace is a borderline top 20 prospect right now. "on September 13, 1996, [David] Ortiz was traded to the Minnesota Twins as the player to be named later to complete an earlier transaction for Dave Hollins." ....and we have been haunted by that trade ever since lol
|
|
|
Post by pedey on Feb 11, 2021 7:46:39 GMT -5
Hate this move. Bloom just stripped the best outfield we ever had. I can still see Benny breaking out like Yelich did.
Bloom needs to realize Boston is a big market team. He can spend a little!
|
|
jimoh
Veteran
Posts: 4,123
|
Post by jimoh on Feb 11, 2021 7:49:22 GMT -5
|
|
shagworthy
Veteran
My neckbeard game is on point.
Posts: 1,845
|
Post by shagworthy on Feb 11, 2021 7:52:41 GMT -5
Jeez. This evening I got to ask Joe Castiglione if he got hurt when he fell out of his chair after Andrew Benintendi made his diving catch of Alex Bregman's liner to save the 4th Game of the 2018 World Series. I figured I'd get to sleep much earlier tonight so I caught a few minutes of NESN expecting to turn it off and go to bed. So what happens? Beni gets traded about 20 minutes after I asked my question. So now I'm trying to figure out this trade and whether I like it or not. Part of me gets those Bronson Arroyo for Wily Mo Pena vibes, the player you can dream on for a fairly unremarkable but steady kind of player. I'm kind of past the point of dreaming that Benintendi becomes the new Freddy Lynn, but I still think there's a .290 - .300 hitter there with 20 HR power. I don't think, despite how bad he looked toward the end of 2019 and how bad he was in a small sample size in 2020, that he's going to "bust" with KC. I think his floor is still about an average player. I'm surprised that it took Benintendi to acquire Franchy Cordero, who I really don't know what to make of. It's hard because he really hasn't had hardly any ABs for 3 seasons. His 2017 minor league stats, while probably inflated by the ballpark, were pretty gaudy. He had some promise in the only semi-significant sample size of ABs, and even that sample size in 2018 is questionable. It looked like a guy with some power, some speed, and some plate discipline. But between the injuries and/or whatever else, he's barely batted at all the past few years. How can you really judge what he is? I can't look at an 80 AB sample size and get too worked up one way or the other. This guy could boom or bust. His ceiling is probably higher than Benintendi and his floor is a helluva lot lower, and it's not like he's 22 years old. And Winckowski looks like another back end starter/more probable as a reliever type pitcher the Sox seem to have a lot of in the minors. Honestly when I heard the Mets were involved before I heard the name Cordero I was thinking/hoping for Dominic Smith. All I can say is that I hope the PTBNLs are really good because otherwise I don't see the point of the deal. Chaim Bloom uses judgments that seem to vary, not just from me - which is fine, but from others. I mean the Yorke pick was off the radar and was panned by some. The prospect he got from the Yankees was seen as fringy by some, but he sees something more than fringy. He sees Winckoski, who others see as a reliever/back end starter and the PTBNL as better than the outfield prospect Lee who went to the Mets, but perhaps would have been a better fit for the Red Sox, if they're building up a future core. It remains to be seen if he was right about the Downs/Wong replacement for Graterol. He definitely does things a lot differently than I would. Doesn't mean it's wrong, but it does mean I'll voice disagreement when I disagree. So for this trade, I'm lukewarm on it, at least until I see more about the PTBNL. I mean, perhaps Cordero blossoms, and becomes a 20 - 25 HR guy with a decent enough OBP and Benintendi continues to plateau, and then if Bloom is right about Winckowski being more than just another reliever, and he hits big on at least one of those PTBNL, then Bloom could make out like a bandit in this deal. Or Benintendi can rebound, Cordero can continue to be an injury riddled enigma and Winkowski winds up being JAG and the PTBNL wind up being nothing special, then Bloom winds up not winning the deal. I guess it will really come down to who those 3 PTBNL are.I think you hit the nail on the head with your last sentence. I'm willing to suspend judgement for the time being until I know the complete picture, but on the surface I'm lukewarm on Cordero as a replacement for Beni, and we'll see what Winckowski amounts to, but if they are the highlights of the package (which I doubt) then yes, the deal was lost. I want to trust in Bloom to extract more hidden value however, which he's already shown a capability of just in the deals he consummated last year (Pillar, Workman, Hembree) became Pivetta, Siebold, and Wallace, which are pretty solid exchanges in my opinion.
|
|
|
Post by jerrygarciaparra on Feb 11, 2021 7:53:42 GMT -5
This trade is so intriguing. I really liked that Bloom made the decision to actually scout players for the trade vs going on outdated info. Not taking too much stock in last year is a very smart thing to do where this year players could be completely different. Who knows what happened after not playing a year (bad conditioning being a big one). It is crazy how night and day Bloom is compared to DD. Bloom is at least trying to think about sustainability. He would by the type of kid that tries to smoke the hornets out and not get stung....and DD the type to kick the hornets nest and run lol. it is a fair point and no use re-litigating DD business model, but if and when there is the actual success DD has had in over 2 decades of management, then we can see if he has the strategic prowess so many people are inclined to think he has.
|
|
|